Topic: Arizona moves to repel abortion ban but Trump could make it US wide (Read 199 times)

Seriously                ??   I am going to keep this one for a future thread on "the best of BA".

Abortion is prohibited in many countries of the world. But these are usually depending on the will of the citizens they don't want to obey any law. Existing Arizona state law also prohibits abortion in the event of rape or involuntary manslaughter. Abortion will be permitted only if the mother's life is in danger. The law provides for two to five years in prison for assisting in an abortion.

If a woman doesn't want a pregnancy, why did she get pregnant in the first place? When a woman gets pregnant, she and the man have volunteered themselves into making a family for themselves. So, is it right for a woman to kill a life because she changed her mind after the fact?

Since many men and women aren't trained by their families regarding how serious this is, the government should advertise it in a GREAT BIG WAY. Then, if the woman wants to abort, and if her man feels the same way, they should get rid of all three of them, so that they don't do it again.

Obviously, there are extenuating circumstances at times.

i don't know why this is such a big problem in america, because in my country the issue of abortion has been discussed for a long time and it is clearly said that it is prohibited, both religiously and by state. but does that seem unfair to women who don't want the pregnancy? not really, because even so, they can abort the pregnancy with over-the-counter medicine or at a gynecologist, even though this is illegal, the government does not really emphasize this as a regulation that must be obeyed.

because from what i understand, these rules must exist as proof that the government is in line with the majority religion, but when there are citizens who violate them, then they don't need to be treated as criminals because it's up to each individual whether they want to obey the rules or not.

Pro-choice. Nobody is forcing anybody to interrupt pregnancy, however some people are trying to get women to remain pregnant wheter they want it or not. Trump is not defending freedom of choice, it is exactly the opposite.

Biden is not "pro-abortion", he's pro-choice, meaning he wishes for Americans to make up their own minds about whether they want to have an abortion or not. Biden is proposing that laws banning abortion in various states and nationwide be repealed. If a government repeals a law banning cryptocurrency trading, that doesn't make them "pro-crypto", it just means they think people should be allowed to decide for themselves.

Donald Trump lied. We know that because he is also endorsing the 2025 Project, which calls for abortion prohibition in all 50 states, and equates abortion to cold-blooded murder. We know that because his previous administration did everything they could to restrict abortion under the laws at that time, and then Trump appointed three Republican justices to the Supreme Court in order to allow complete abortion bans nationwide.

People who say abortion is "murder" do not want exceptions for rape because that is just mitigating a crime with another crime. That is why there are already many US states with absolute bans, and Trump has endorsed those bans by dropping his opposition to them (he originally called the Florida law "horrible" and now fully supports it).

If you want abortion to be illegal in all 50 US states, then vote Republican. If you don't want that, then vote Democrat.

I clearly don't understand how things work in united states, and as it regards abortion laws, if Donald trump's, administration was anti abortion, the present Joe Biden, administration is pro abortion, then I think it's a good thing that we're in an election year, so let the American people vote for what they want.

I based what I said about misinformation on the report that Donald Trump, said that it's states that'll determine whether they'll allow abortions in their states or not, if he actually said that, then if any states outlaws abortion, it has nothing to do with the federal government. I think that even if abortion is banned in any states, there should be clause that'll covers rape cases.

So repeating the candidates written statement of intentions is "misinformation"?

Pointing out what steps Republicans have already done to try to ban abortion in all 50 states is "misinformation"?

You obviously don't understand how things work in the United States. Republicans have already made abortion illegal in many US states, and stopped all doctors nationwide from using the abortion pill for several weeks while they fought in court.

A majority of Republican voters these days want a 50 state ban on abortion. That's what the polling says. If they win, they will impose their will on the rest of the country through Trump as their agent. That's how democracy works.

That´s your view and you are free to live with it, you are not free to impose it on others. You are not anyone to basically say it is their own fault if they have a pregnancy - you did not even consider it could be rape uh??

See, this is what several generation of women have fought against and here we are, at risk of being told like little children what it moral by a bunch of people like this poster here. This is Trump in action - do not lie to women.

This is what has brought million of women in history to illegal clinics to die or have irreversible damages because, in the end, you cannot force them to have children if they do not want to. My guess... lots of abortion clinics will open in Mexico. Good to Make Mexico Great Again I guess.


Tell that to the women. If they are convinced by your points they have the choice. It is not pro-abortion, it is pro-CHOICE.

Isn't it necessary to also consider the risks involved on the course of evacuating childs from their mothers womb? I don't know about others opinion but I think if anyone doesn't want to have a child either unwanted or wedlock, then you should be prepared and Concious on at your sexual intercourse.
The intentions of Trump could be to safe and existing life of a mother considering the risks and the other way round, I think there's no different in murderer cases and abortion a baby alive form the mothers womb.
This might literally not be about religious beliefs and sentiments are we could think.

I really don’t understand the obsession with abortion ban in the US. There are many situations where abortion could be beneficial for the Mother carrying the child. It’s such a sensitive subject but what about if the child is conceived via a sexual assault or if the Mother is mentally unstable or to poor to bring up a child. I certainly think there should be a limit on age of gestation permitted to be aborted. You can’t allow near full term abortions but before the unborn child really resembles a human being I think, only if it’s beneficial to the Mother, then she should be able to make her own decision.

Thanks for correcting this misinformation, the US is a top democratic government, and the definition of democracy is about the voice and wish of the people, therefore insinuating that a president will impose his personal will or religious beliefs in a country like the USA is not possible. I think that the OP is a supporter of Joe Biden, and is campaigning for him, but let's not forget that Donald Trump, was once a US president, so the American people in this forum will answer better if he had tried to push for a notional ban on abortion. I think that Americans are in a better position to choose their next president, one is the current president and the other is the former president, so let them vote who they think will serve them better as the next president.

Curious, because while I was reading news the other night it came to my attention who one of the people being indicted in Arizona for trying to defranchise the people of the state through the scheme of the fake electors was actually a lawyer for Donald Trump who was (ironically) in charge of election integrity, which sounds to me she was the kind of person Trump hired to try to find evidence of widespread fraud and accuse the democrat party of being behind some master plan to steal the election.
In the end, the person screaming fraud and pointing out others, is the one who will have to face justice in Arizona and tried for trying to steal the will of the people in such state.
Considering there is already people who have declared themselves to be guilty in the state of Georgia for trying to do something similar, I would not be surprised those indicted in Arizona started to sing like bird as soon as they feel a minimum of pressure.

Pregnancy shouldn't be considered an extension of the woman's body, but a living being inside their bodies until developing all the necessary biological conditions to live outside the mother's belly. Therefore, it's not about 'your body not being yours anymore', but about having the responsability that due to an act of sex without protection, it has brought consequences which have to be embraced and taken until the end.

If the mother doesn't care or have love for the baby, completely rejecting it, then another measures could be discussed by a conscious and fair society (which isn't the case of the modern relativist world nowadays), like for an example, forwarding this baby for adoption, while at same time making sure that woman does all the necessary medical procedures to not get pregnant anymore in the future, since it's not something she wants for her life.

This way, babies don't have to be sacrificed, neither women who don't want to be mothers have to be.

And for those who really care and are concerned about their daughters, instead of teaching them the path of abortion, teach them the path of sex with meaning, the path of love, and if it's too hard to see through this point of view, try to teach at least the path of safe sex, otherwise, there will be unavoidable consequences which even abortion can't erase from their lives...

It is fine to have a nationwide abortion ruling. It will prevent poor women in ban-states to have to die in illegal abortionists clinics or having to go on a cheap bus hundreds of miles after suffering an operation and getting in debt just because they do not feel they can have a child at that moment.

You accuse of lying, but that is just words with no backup so I am sensing some desperation here. You know that Trump has been instating in every occasion judges that would perfectly accept a nationwide ban, you know that evangelists and Methodists are a significant part of his supporters and they are religious extremists willing to impose their ideas on women´s uterus.

Women in the US may want to risk it, who knows... or maybe they will decide to put priest´s and extremists in the trollcage they belong, ranting in TwitterX about how they lost unfairly.

There is no way you have the morals to be a Democrat.   

I literally just pointed you to a comprehensive policy document that aligns with the stated premises of the Republican party for the last 50 years. A document that all of Trump's people continue to reference when it comes to their intentions for Trump's administration. A document that outlines actionable, practical means that Trump can/will take to criminalize abortion in the USA.

Against that, we have... your feelings. Okay.

And yes, I make no bones about it: Biden wants a nationwide law passed in Congress that will codify Roe and make abortion legal again in all 50 states, overriding state prohibitions. He wants to keep the abortion pill legal, and will fight off Republican-led lawsuits trying to ban it nationwide (something that Trump would absolutely never do). He wants to maintain the right of Americans to freely move between states, and to freely transact commerce between states, and he will use the federal government to intervene if/when states try to imprison their own residents to prevent them from having abortions.

That's what he says he wants. He doesn't lie about his intentions around abortion. Neither do his supporters.

Most Americans didn't want Roe overturned, and yet Republicans did it anyhow. What you are supposed to get when this happens is... political fallout. Do something unpopular, and pay at the polls. That's democracy.

Maybe that's why Republicans are against democracy now too, come to think of it .

I literally just told you that Trump has stated many times that this is a state issue and not a federal issue and then you come out and say the same lies… Let me say it again because it clearly isn’t sinking in. Donald Trump has 0 intention of banning abortion nationwide and has repeatedly said it will be left up to the states.

You know who is interested in a nationwide abortion ruling? Joe Biden. Why do Democrats always accuse others of doing what they’re trying to do?

I didn't write that document I linked, no. But it is touted by all of Trump's advisors as their blueprint for his administration should he win. That document outlines, very specifically, the steps Trump will take if he's elected vis a vie abortion. And Trump has never answered questions about the FDA, free travel between states, and all of the other tactics the document outlines.

I certainly get having a different view on abortion--it's a divisive topic. What I don't get is... lying about it. I'm pro-choice. I'm willing to admit that. Why are Republicans not willing to admit their view on this? Their view on this is very clear: it's murder. Fine, believe its murder. But don't say it's murder and then say, "well maybe we'll let it slide" right before the election. You aren't fooling anybody.

The problem is that Trump can say what is convenient during the campaign and do what is convenient during the presidency. It would not be the first time that he changes the discourse. That is one of the problems of being so unstable.

But in the end what matters is the electoral support. He will chose whatever delivers his goals and if a sufficient number of Republicans are in favour of a national ban he will have no issue exchanging that for some other crazy legislation of his choice.

Why spread misinformation and lies? Is it because you’re ignorant and have no idea what you’re talking about? Did you just make this up and decide to post it thinking it was smart? Are you laughably misinformed by some liberal propaganda machine posing as a news outlet?

Trump is about state rights and has said time and again that the Federal government should stay out of the abortion issue. Pretending he wants to rule one way or another federally about abortion is idiotic.

I would urge everybody to read Trump's blueprint for his administration, which is called, "Project 2025":

https://www.project2025.org/policy/

In that document they are crystal-clear that they consider abortion to be cold-blooded murder, and that Trump should try to stop it nationwide using every tool available to the presidency--whose powers this document says should be greatly expanded.

This could include:

* Banning the abortion pill using the FDA (Congress not necessary)

* Allowing the states to prevent interstate travel for those seeking abortions in other states (Congress not necessary)

* Making abortion effectively illegal in all 50 states by using the power of the Administrative State (which, let's be serious here, Trump absolutely would increase the reach of if he's elected) to crack down on doctors, hospitals, and medicine providers.  (Congress not necessary)

If you want abortion to be illegal in all 50 states, then by all means vote for Trump. If you don't want that, vote for Biden. It's as simple as that.

That is my guess too, if Trump looses even his biggest and most adept donors will understand that this is not the way to get a "return on their investment" and hopefully choose a proper candidate. But for now, we have to deal with this Playboy magazine fan.

I rekon the quality of candidates that Republicans source is appalling. Bush Junior, Trump... even the alternatives like deSantis are terrible. Kamala is hated widely, Biden may not reach the end of another mandate... I wonder where are the statesmen hiding.

It is fair for anyone to suggest Donald Trump is not to be trusted in this matter and in other matters which are supposed to concern only the the people and their body, this is obviously an issue will overwhelmingly affect women and not much men in the USA.
I believe with the almost complete ban on abortion in Arizona, it has become very clear for the Republican party that most women (regardless of their political party) want to have reasonable laws on their reproductive rights and what they are able to do with their own bodies. Even some commentators who are conservative can see the disaster ahead for the political trajectory of Republican politicians if they continue to push for the strictest laws to past in the states of the Union.
If Trump ends up losing the election, then it may be the last wake up call in the middle of night for Republicans to get back to being a normal political party or continue to lose support from reasonable people.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/may/01/speaker-mike-johnson-marjorie-taylor-greene-updates


This is a warning of what is to come for all women in the US. Your body will no longer be yours, Trump and the Christian radicals will own it and force you to have children whether you want it or not. Even if someone rapes you, you will not be able to take a bus north to a democrat state to avoid having that children.

Think carefully about what you want for you and your daughters - this ends up with them finding an illegal abortion clinic trying to scratch their uterus and probably leaving them without any possibility of having children in the future. You are in time to stop the madness.