LocalMonero/Agoradesk to be taken down

Z-tight

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Quote from: Synchronice on May 09, 2024, 01:14:34 PM

I know that this will not last, there will come time when privacy will be strengthened and improved in the near future despite the fact that they arrest developers and try to scare people but it's sad that still, for a while, we will not be able to protect your privacy.

I wish i shared the same hope as you, but i really don't, it seems to me that we are losing the fight for privacy and that is because only a small percentage of bitcoiners actually care about their privacy. As long as their coins gives them the returns they need and they can make money in fiat value from it, then they are fine with the government holding every information about them.

How will people use BTC privacy solutions when they fear that their coins may being treated as non fungible in custodial services after, and how will developers write codes for privacy softwares and services if they are worried of charges and jail time. I have a feeling things can only get worse from here on.

zabzob

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All these recent events---de-listing of Monero from CEXs, arrest of Samurai devs, and now the fall of Agoradesk---were completely predictable based on fundamental principals of blockchain opsec. Useful as they are while they last, centralized services are never secure and will eventually be taken down authorities. And anyone running them risks arrest and dire punishment. The lucky ones will be simply put out of business and allowed to walk away with their profits, the unlucky ones will be made examples of: arrested, extradited to US and thrown into barbaric dungeons. Truly decentralized protocols like bisq and joinmarket are more robust, but they tend to have low liquidity due to technical limitations and downright laziness of many crypto users. Such is the impasse of crytpo in 2024, and for the foreseeable future I suppose.

But thanks to the folks who run services like Samurai and Agoradesk, they perform valuable service. New ones will surely appear soon to replace these fallen ones. No risk, no reward!

Medusah

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Quote from: davis196 on May 10, 2024, 06:23:04 AM

I remember browsing the offers on Localmonero 2 or 3 years ago. All of them seemed really sketchy and I thought that Localmonero is a scam platform back then. Maybe I was wrong.

LocalMonero wasn't a scam. It served as the best platform for exchanging Monero for fiat currency. Similar to Bisq, just not decentralized. You communicated encrypted and traded peer-to-peer without intermediaries.

Quote from: Synchronice on May 10, 2024, 09:39:45 AM

The USA won't ban Bitcoin, banning it simply means that the USA is giving up and doesn't want to have financial influence over the world. From my understanding, they analyze that banning it is pointless and instead they try to become part of it, in other words, they recently approved Bitcoin ETFs.

Those suggesting that the US intends to outlaw Bitcoin are gravely mistaken, at the very least. The government is actively seeking to monitor it extensively, paying millions of dollars for blockchain analysis. With the approval of ETFs and the absence of any bans over the decade, it's evident that they aim to become part of Bitcoin.

Synchronice

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Quote from: examplens on May 09, 2024, 03:19:20 PM

Quote from: Synchronice on May 09, 2024, 01:14:34 PM

By the way, what would happen if Bitcoin was anonymous at protocol level? Just imagine Monero being Bitcoin, what would happen? Would they ban it?

Maybe it would be better if Bitcoin were banned in the US. Then they would only deal with their citizens, and not act as a global judge. The value of Bitcoin would certainly go a little slower, but there would be more freedom.

The USA won't ban Bitcoin, banning it simply means that the USA is giving up and doesn't want to have financial influence over the world. From my understanding, they analyze that banning it is pointless and instead they try to become part of it, in other words, they recently approved Bitcoin ETFs. The USA won't ban it, they'll try to gain control over it and I think that the next step will be to get as much mining power as possible in the USA and then force miners locally and also internationally to filter transactions that they'll include in blocks.

davis196

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I remember browsing the offers on Localmonero 2 or 3 years ago. All of them seemed really sketchy and I thought that Localmonero is a scam platform back then. Maybe I was wrong. Anyways, all centralized non-KYC exchange platforms will have to be taken down and go out of business at some point. I'm surprised that Paxful is still around, even though they require KYC. I remember that Paxful announced that they will shut down in March or April 2023, but they started working again in May 2023. Their shut down was more about a court case between Ray Youssef and one of his business partners and not about regulatory pressure or crime investigations.

Blackbacked

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Quote from: NotATether on May 08, 2024, 07:21:54 PM

Operating them outside of the US or Five Eyes or Fourteen Eyes makes sense, but think about it though: Don't you think, that a privacy service that is running in Russia for example, will not attract the scrutiny of the United States? I mean, that in itself is enough of an excuse for them to sanction, if not ban the service even if no American had actually used it yet.

In this example U.S. govt don't have any real ability to ban this service.
Of course U.S. govt can declare sanctions, but they will mean nothing for operator in some unrecognized country like Russia.

Medusah

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Quote from: Synchronice on May 09, 2024, 01:14:34 PM

America is a global superpower, it decides the fate of the world, it promotes the democracy in other countries and so on but what if one day America becomes evil?

The United States are already evil. They are facilitating genocide and supporting widespread public surveillance.

Quote from: Synchronice on May 09, 2024, 01:14:34 PM

By the way, what would happen if Bitcoin was anonymous at protocol level? Just imagine Monero being Bitcoin, what would happen? Would they ban it?

They would likely enact laws that would make it illegal. Bitcoin has been permitted to be promoted and traded as a commercial product by various entities, primarily exchanges, because its traceability minimizes harm to them. Since at least 95% of Bitcoin users provide personal documents and undergo KYC procedures, it's not a significant concern for their government.

I think a similar scenario would unfold if Google Chrome and Firefox mandated Tor usage in their next update.

examplens

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Quote from: Synchronice on May 09, 2024, 01:14:34 PM

By the way, what would happen if Bitcoin was anonymous at protocol level? Just imagine Monero being Bitcoin, what would happen? Would they ban it?

Maybe it would be better if Bitcoin were banned in the US. Then they would only deal with their citizens, and not act as a global judge. The value of Bitcoin would certainly go a little slower, but there would be more freedom.

Synchronice

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Quote from: examplens on May 09, 2024, 12:49:33 AM

I have not seen who authorized the US government to take on the main role of regulating the crypto ecosystem. They make regulations, punish, take away... too much power in their hand over something that should be decentralized.

I am not 100% sure but I think that Obama said something similar: America is a global superpower, it decides the fate of the world, it promotes the democracy in other countries and so on but what if one day America becomes evil? Who will stop America? | Yes, it's too much power in their hands but I think they'll soon lose it. Hard times create strong people, strong people create good times, good times create weak people, weak people create hard times and the circle goes on.

I know that this will not last, there will come time when privacy will be strengthened and improved in the near future despite the fact that they arrest developers and try to scare people but it's sad that still, for a while, we will not be able to protect your privacy.

By the way, what would happen if Bitcoin was anonymous at protocol level? Just imagine Monero being Bitcoin, what would happen? Would they ban it?

examplens

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Quote from: Medusah on May 07, 2024, 10:08:26 AM

It is sad to see another platform known to uphold privacy standards, announcing its closure. I can't help but notice the timing coinciding with the arrest of Samourai developers, the shutdown of Wasabi's central coordinator, and the escalation of Tornado Cash's case by the DoJ. It raises suspicions of something amiss. Perhaps authorities are sending a message.

They withdraw because they don't want lawsuits in their name. This is just proof that the developers did not create such services to encourage anything illegal or criminal.

I have not seen who authorized the US government to take on the main role of regulating the crypto ecosystem. They make regulations, punish, take away... too much power in their hand over something that should be decentralized.

NotATether

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Quote from: Blackbacked on May 08, 2024, 03:23:46 PM

General rule: operate privacy-oriented services from jurisdictions, which are maximally-hostile to the U.S. government.

Operating them outside of the US or Five Eyes or Fourteen Eyes makes sense, but think about it though: Don't you think, that a privacy service that is running in Russia for example, will not attract the scrutiny of the United States? I mean, that in itself is enough of an excuse for them to sanction, if not ban the service even if no American had actually used it yet.

Let's ignore any local laws that would be hostile to people running privacy services in that particular country, for the purpose of this discussion.

Blackbacked

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Quote from: Darker45 on May 08, 2024, 02:23:51 AM

It only takes a single American citizen to use a platform registered, licensed, headquartered, hosted, whatever based overseas for it to be answerable to the US.

FTX was based outside the US. So is Binance. Samourai is also hosted far from the US. Chipmixer was also operated outside the US. There were many others. They were all seized, fined, indicted, whatever by the US.

General rule: operate privacy-oriented services from jurisdictions, which are maximally-hostile to the U.S. government.

Medusah

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Quote from: Solosanz on May 07, 2024, 05:05:08 PM

Anything that listed on kycnot.me except Bisq.

That, and Unstoppable Swap.

Quote from: shield132 on May 07, 2024, 10:13:12 PM

They aren't classified as money laundering services but they enhance privacy, enhanced privacy means less control for governments and this all leads to problems.

They are categorized as money transmitting businesses, similar to how Whirlpool was classified, despite not directly transmitting money but facilitating its transmission. (And yes, I'm aware that under this definition, almost everything could be considered a money transmitting business.)

Quote from: Pmalek on May 08, 2024, 05:15:09 AM

I hope I won't wake up and read a similar announcement about eXch tomorrow. Bisq has always been the best option, but it's so fu**ing tiresome to use and the liquidity is bad. I wonder if it will absorb some of the users who will be left stranded from using other services.

What bothers me about Bisq is its inability to enable direct selling of XMR for altcoins or fiat currency. Users are compelled to convert XMR to BTC and then execute the trade in BTC, requiring multiple on-chain transactions, which are costly during periods like these.

Pmalek

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Farewell, Leo. You will be missed!

So another one bites the dust. Very sad times we live in. Providing privacy is frowned upon, assisting in a genocide is completely legit. At least world governments have priorities and we know where they stand. Roll Eyes

I hope I won't wake up and read a similar announcement about eXch tomorrow. Bisq has always been the best option, but it's so fu**ing tiresome to use and the liquidity is bad. I wonder if it will absorb some of the users who will be left stranded from using other services.

Darker45

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🙏🏼Padayon...🙏

It's unfortunate that another surviving platform which protects privacy has to bid goodbye, although it's consoling to read that just as a door closed a window has also opened. I'm excited for Haven and Serai and others to achieve success.

Quote from: Medusah on May 07, 2024, 10:08:26 AM

The popular exchange used to trade Monero...

And Bitcoin, too.

Quote from: NotATether on May 07, 2024, 04:37:51 PM

They're not even US based so that have no obligation to report to the IRS or DOJ.

This is just FUD at its finest.

On the flip side, with the new IRS taxing rules, I would not be surprised if we finally see "the third wave of private exchanges".

It only takes a single American citizen to use a platform registered, licensed, headquartered, hosted, whatever based overseas for it to be answerable to the US.

FTX was based outside the US. So is Binance. Samourai is also hosted far from the US. Chipmixer was also operated outside the US. There were many others. They were all seized, fined, indicted, whatever by the US.

Quote from: hugeblack on May 07, 2024, 08:46:21 PM

This was quick and I don't know how the US government could scare them off, especially since services like LocalMonero/Agoradesk cannot be classified as money laundering services or used to launder large amounts of cryptocurrencies without being noticed.

It could easily be labeled as such by a simple statement from the DOJ or whatever US agency.

shield132

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Quote from: dkbit98 on May 07, 2024, 10:37:16 AM

Days of old trading platforms might be in the end stages, but I believe that smart devs can win in this cat & mouse game.

These are probably the last times we will be able to use privacy-oriented platforms and currencies. If I were you, I wouldn't have much hope about smart devs winning this cat and mouse game because developers are under attack too. When a developer creates anything that benefits people's privacy, he must acknowledge that he might end up in prison. I think that many developers won't risk getting caught.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 07, 2024, 11:14:54 AM

I think they are giving these privacy sites choices. That they can just close down without any issue as early as possible or their site will be taken down and they will be arrested.

That's exactly what's happening right now.

Quote from: hugeblack on May 07, 2024, 08:46:21 PM

This was quick and I don't know how the US government could scare them off

Just like Charles-Tim said above, the US government would order them to shut down their service or they'll get haunted and arrested.

Quote from: hugeblack on May 07, 2024, 08:46:21 PM

especially since services like LocalMonero/Agoradesk cannot be classified as money laundering services or used to launder large amounts of cryptocurrencies without being noticed.

They aren't classified as money laundering services but they enhance privacy, enhanced privacy means less control for governments and this all leads to problems.

hugeblack

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This was quick and I don't know how the US government could scare them off, especially since services like LocalMonero/Agoradesk cannot be classified as money laundering services or used to launder large amounts of cryptocurrencies without being noticed.

Therefore, I think that the current generation of privacy services aimed to break privacy at the level of individuals, but they do not want to clash with governments, so either we will not see privacy enhancing services again, or the future trend for them will be to enhance privacy to a higher level of governments.

So, who will be the next?

Blackbacked

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on May 07, 2024, 05:14:02 PM

Do you think legislation in other countries will differ much from that in the USA? If they are not the same today, they will be in the future. Even casinos, which are licensed in tax havens like Curaçao, i.e. not US based, have anti money laundering and KYC requirements.

There are some gray areas in the world without recognized government at all.
Of course there are another risks, however local quasi-goverenments are hostile to the US and EU so will never obey their orders.

NotATether

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on May 07, 2024, 05:14:02 PM

Quote from: NotATether on May 07, 2024, 04:37:51 PM

Why?

They're not even US based so that have no obligation to report to the IRS or DOJ.

This is just FUD at its finest..

Do you think legislation in other countries will differ much from that in the USA? If they are not the same today, they will be in the future. Even casinos, which are licensed in tax havens like Curaçao, i.e. not US based, have anti money laundering and KYC requirements.

In the EU, this kind of inter-cryptocurrency exchanging is completely fine, since there's no on or off ramps involved.

Don Pedro Dinero

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Fucking hell! I wonder if there's going to be any large service left that offers privacy in a couple of years or so.

Quote from: Medusah on May 07, 2024, 10:08:26 AM

Perhaps authorities are sending a message.

Perhaps? I think it's pretty clear.

Quote from: NotATether on May 07, 2024, 04:37:51 PM

Why?

They're not even US based so that have no obligation to report to the IRS or DOJ.

This is just FUD at its finest..

Do you think legislation in other countries will differ much from that in the USA? If they are not the same today, they will be in the future. Even casinos, which are licensed in tax havens like Curaçao, i.e. not US based, have anti money laundering and KYC requirements.

Solosanz

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Sad to see one of trustworthy No KYC P2P ended their business, but we should expect there will be a new site comes up and start to build the reputation from zero. It's better for the sites to shutdown their operations rather than enforce KYC requirements just like centralized exchanges.

Quote from: Bitcoin_Arena on May 07, 2024, 11:43:58 AM

So who next? HodlHodl? Localcoinswap?

Anything that listed on kycnot.me except Bisq.

NotATether

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Quote from: KingsDen on May 07, 2024, 10:30:27 AM

I'm surprised they are not taken my surprise.

Why?

They're not even US based so that have no obligation to report to the IRS or DOJ.

This is just FUD at its finest.

On the flip side, with the new IRS taxing rules, I would not be surprised if we finally see "the third wave of private exchanges".

tabas

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No longer surprising, all of the services that have intend to increase someone's privacy are going to be scrutinized and taken down by the regulators. That's the message that they're showing to us and no matter how we're all likely wanting to have a better form of privacy and anonymize our movements on the web together with our transactions, it's very simple to them as they can take down all of it, all at once or one by one, there's no escape.

Bitcoin_Arena

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They have ended business similarly like localcryptos. Given that they were not asking users for KYC verification, I think they just decided to shut down rather than enforce KYC verification on its users, just like LocalBitcoins did.
It's more like a "F##K you" to the regulators.

So who next? HodlHodl? Localcoinswap?

Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 07, 2024, 11:14:54 AM

Also Agoradesk and Localmonero which are decentralized exchanges are closing down and no reason stated. It is easy to understand that this is about regulations.

They have never been decentralized.

Medusah

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Quote from: KingsDen on May 07, 2024, 10:30:27 AM

Rip privacy, let's be hopeful that there will be survivors at the end of this crackdown.

Instead of praying and hoping, let's focus on practical action by writing code. Decentralized protocols such as Bisq appear to be impervious to disruption. Let's direct our efforts towards enhancing these.

Quote from: dkbit98 on May 07, 2024, 10:37:16 AM

Days of old trading platforms might be in the end stages, but I believe that smart devs can win in this cat & mouse game.

I doubt that there will be any non-KYC, non-darknet exchanges based in the Western countries by the end of this decade. Governments have recently begun cracking down on privacy services, and I don't think we can confront them by creating more of these services. We need to change strategy. Decentralization is how we started, it is tested, and it's the path we should continue to follow.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 07, 2024, 11:14:54 AM

Also Agoradesk and Localmonero which are decentralized exchanges are closing down and no reason stated.

They are not decentralized. They are only peer-to-peer.

Charles-Tim

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I think they are giving these privacy sites choices. That they can just close down without any issue as early as possible or their site will be taken down and they will be arrested. We can see three mixers that recently closed down and the three of them did not state the reason. Also Agoradesk and Localmonero which are ~~decentralized~~ no-KYC exchanges are closing down and no reason stated. It is easy to understand that this is about regulations.

dkbit98

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Quote from: Medusah on May 07, 2024, 10:08:26 AM

It is sad to see another platform known to uphold privacy standards, announcing its closure. I can't help but notice the timing coinciding with the arrest of Samourai developers, the shutdown of Wasabi's central coordinator, and the escalation of Tornado Cash's case by the DoJ. It raises suspicions of something amiss. Perhaps authorities are sending a message.

I am not surprised by this news, but I am sad about it. Sad

Agoradesk was active in bitcointalk forum, they even had signature campaign not long ago, but things change so quickly, and I hope they will continue working on something new.
Good thing is that Agoradesk gave several months to all their customers to move accounts on time and still continue trading for few more days.
Days of old trading platforms might be in the end stages, but I believe that smart devs can win in this cat & mouse game.

KingsDen

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Hello Leo! You can still win.

Quote from: Medusah on May 07, 2024, 10:08:26 AM

It is sad to see another platform known to uphold privacy standards, announcing its closure. I can't help but notice the timing coinciding with the arrest of Samourai developers, the shutdown of Wasabi's central coordinator, and the escalation of Tornado Cash's case by the DoJ. It raises suspicions of something amiss. Perhaps authorities are sending a message.

I'm surprised they are not taken my surprise. Who knows the pressure they have been getting in background. Maybe they finally decided to give up and comply with the government amicably. Rip privacy, let's be hopeful that there will be survivors at the end of this crackdown.

Medusah

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The popular exchange used to trade Monero will be taken down completely by November 2024:

Quote from: https://localmonero.co/

LocalMonero will be winding down
The winding down process begins May 7th, 2024, and finishes on November 7th, 2024. Our support staff will be available for help throughout this period.

1. Effective immediately, all new signups and ad postings are disabled;
2. On May 14th, 2024, new trades will be disabled as well;
3. On November 7th, 2024, the website will be taken down. Please reclaim any funds from your arbitration bond wallet prior to that date, otherwise the funds may be considered abandoned/forfeited.

You can read more about it in here: https://agoradesk.com/blog/announcements/winding-down.

It is sad to see another platform known to uphold privacy standards, announcing its closure. I can't help but notice the timing coinciding with the arrest of Samourai developers, the shutdown of Wasabi's central coordinator, and the escalation of Tornado Cash's case by the DoJ. It raises suspicions of something amiss. Perhaps authorities are sending a message.

Topic: LocalMonero/Agoradesk to be taken down (Read 334 times)