I think the threat should be closed
You can click "lock" (bottom-left) yourself.Quote
as resolution with a partial refund is given.
Why did you change your negative feedback to positive while saying it's neutral? 
Topic: SCAM REPORT | Heisenberg63 (Read 659 times)
I think the threat should be closed as resolution with a partial refund is given.
I appreciate everyone of you supporting and sharing your thoughts!
I appreciate everyone of you supporting and sharing your thoughts!
You should update the title and marked it as “resolved” if you already agree on how he settle the issue.
Also lock the thread before you leave to make this case finally solved otherwise you change your mind and pursue the full refund in the future. Congratulations on your partial refund although you are still at loss here but still much better than nothing.
I think the threat should be closed as resolution with a partial refund is given.
I appreciate everyone of you supporting and sharing your thoughts!
I appreciate everyone of you supporting and sharing your thoughts!
Update:
Total value I paid : 305 USD
*Agreed to take refund of 232 USD and bare loss of ~73 USD
*Received a refund of 210 USD (~22 USD less than what I asked (232 USD) to refund me while I take the loss of another since @Heisenberg63 has been requesting to be considerate as per his situation.
Could you please confirm which is which?Total value I paid : 305 USD
*Agreed to take refund of 232 USD and bare loss of ~73 USD
*Received a refund of 210 USD (~22 USD less than what I asked (232 USD) to refund me while I take the loss of another since @Heisenberg63 has been requesting to be considerate as per his situation.
Wasn't it 294.80 USD as per the OP? How did you end up with the value 305 USD? I need some clarification before leaving some feedback.
Not happy with the solution and the situations I am put into for something I have no fault on. But I guess I learnt my lesson and glad that I got some part of what I paid.
You have every right not to be happy until he refunds everything.I paid $305 that’s what my bank account says but the transfer fees or transaction cost has brought it to $294.84
I would be happy to even say $294 that I paid $294.
PS fixed my post.
Couldn't you agree that he would still deliver the Amazon coupons to you, you would get what you wanted in the end, and he would honor the agreement with reduced damages, because, in essence, they are giving up their earnings?
Surely these things cost Heisenberg63 less than the price at which he sells them, although I have no idea how much his profit is in that. Now you are both at a loss and plus you still don't have what you wanted to buy.
He does not have vouchers to deliver atm.
Update:
Total value I paid : 305 USD
*Agreed to take refund of 232 USD and bare loss of ~73 USD
*Received a refund of 210 USD (~22 USD less than what I asked (232 USD) to refund me while I take the loss of another since @Heisenberg63 has been requesting to be considerate as per his situation.
Not happy with the solution and the situations I am put into for something I have no fault on. But I guess I learnt my lesson and glad that I got some part of what I paid.
Total value I paid : 305 USD
*Agreed to take refund of 232 USD and bare loss of ~73 USD
*Received a refund of 210 USD (~22 USD less than what I asked (232 USD) to refund me while I take the loss of another since @Heisenberg63 has been requesting to be considerate as per his situation.
Not happy with the solution and the situations I am put into for something I have no fault on. But I guess I learnt my lesson and glad that I got some part of what I paid.
Couldn't you agree that he would still deliver the Amazon coupons to you, you would get what you wanted in the end, and he would honor the agreement with reduced damages, because, in essence, they are giving up their earnings?
Surely these things cost Heisenberg63 less than the price at which he sells them, although I have no idea how much his profit is in that. Now you are both at a loss and plus you still don't have what you wanted to buy.
You guys really think that negative feedback will help!!
I got burnt here too and lost everything and even lost my customers, my entire business is down so do you think your negative feedback will matter with me?
I got burnt here too and lost everything and even lost my customers, my entire business is down so do you think your negative feedback will matter with me?
Would you really bother with a refund if there were no negative tags and reviews here?
Update:
Total value I paid : 305 USD
*Agreed to take refund of 232 USD and bare loss of ~73 USD
*Received a refund of 210 USD (~22 USD less than what I asked (232 USD) to refund me while I take the loss of another since @Heisenberg63 has been requesting to be considerate as per his situation.
Could you please confirm which is which?Total value I paid : 305 USD
*Agreed to take refund of 232 USD and bare loss of ~73 USD
*Received a refund of 210 USD (~22 USD less than what I asked (232 USD) to refund me while I take the loss of another since @Heisenberg63 has been requesting to be considerate as per his situation.
Wasn't it 294.80 USD as per the OP? How did you end up with the value 305 USD? I need some clarification before leaving some feedback.
Not happy with the solution and the situations I am put into for something I have no fault on. But I guess I learnt my lesson and glad that I got some part of what I paid.
You have every right not to be happy until he refunds everything.
Update:
Total value I paid : 305 USD (charge in my bank)
Amount transacted in transaction ID shows $294 USD
*Agreed to take refund of 232 USD and bare loss of ~62 USD
*Received a refund of 210 USD (~22 USD less than what I asked (232 USD) to refund me while I take the loss of another since @Heisenberg63 has been requesting to be considerate as per his situation.
Not happy with the solution and the situations I am put into for something I have no fault on. But I guess I learnt my lesson and glad that I got some part of what I paid.
Total value I paid : 305 USD (charge in my bank)
Amount transacted in transaction ID shows $294 USD
*Agreed to take refund of 232 USD and bare loss of ~62 USD
*Received a refund of 210 USD (~22 USD less than what I asked (232 USD) to refund me while I take the loss of another since @Heisenberg63 has been requesting to be considerate as per his situation.
Not happy with the solution and the situations I am put into for something I have no fault on. But I guess I learnt my lesson and glad that I got some part of what I paid.
You guys really think that negative feedback will help!!
Yes, it will help other potential clients to avoid falling into the trap of dealing with you since you don't want to take responsibility of your carelessness.Quote
I got burnt here too and lost everything and even lost my customers, my entire business is down so do you think your negative feedback will matter with me?
That's on you! Sort your mess.
The whole point of the feedback is to warn others to avoid dealing with you here. It's funny, you look at it as a form of punishment. Stop being cocky about it.
@ Heisenberg63 had reached out to me on private message and said he would like to split the loss.
He want to split my loss as 50-50, of course it doesn’t do me good as I still do loose money.
@Heisenberg63: why don't you start by paying OP 50%, and continue "negotiations" from there? That way, at least he won't feel forced to accept your 50-50 offer (in order recover something), and can freely decide what he wants. He want to split my loss as 50-50, of course it doesn’t do me good as I still do loose money.
Because he emptied my wallet as well, I think he used my wallet not to raise any suspicions with my guys.
So he got your phone, he got your wallet, what else he got?Your email, laptop, your door key, your spouse.
You must be doing a big business online. How much is your yearly turnover?
If you were my spouse, I will let him have you. Just fuck off if you do not know how to say appropriate things in such cases.
You and I know very well that none of us have any chance to be each others spouse. In fact, I don't think anyone will be interested to be a scammer's spouse. Many may be interested to be mine though but you need to know miss bitcointalk is an illusion 🤓
Yea I should focus on the problem here. Mind your business and check the "Many maybe interested in you" because they are waiting to get the service they paid for
Thought to share update.
@ Heisenberg63 had reached out to me on private message and said he would like to split the loss.
He want to split my loss as 50-50, of course it doesn’t do me good as I still do loose money.
I still told him that I am happy to split loss for $100 CAD of $415 CAD is Paid but I requested him to pay me $315 CAD back. Still waiting to hear from him since.
Still Unfair to you, IMO. What if he is just lying about the whole thing? Which means he makes off with part of the money. If he really cares about your "lost" money, then he should be refunding 100% of it with apologies at the least.@ Heisenberg63 had reached out to me on private message and said he would like to split the loss.
He want to split my loss as 50-50, of course it doesn’t do me good as I still do loose money.
I still told him that I am happy to split loss for $100 CAD of $415 CAD is Paid but I requested him to pay me $315 CAD back. Still waiting to hear from him since.
That is his responsibility.
I am still holding back my negative feedback, hoping he does the right thing, but all I just see are lies and irresponsibility from his side so far.
He should borrow a leaf from this users
1. Someone Loan using My Account
2. I've been hacked (Electrum 4.3.2)
You guys really think that negative feedback will help!!
I got burnt here too and lost everything and even lost my customers, my entire business is down so do you think your negative feedback will matter with me?
Again I am reaching out the OP and please all of the smart guys who gives their shitty opinions, my advice to them is to keep it for yourself and I will sort it out with OP and he knows me well and knows that it will be solved but it is just a matter of time.
Thought to share update.
@ Heisenberg63 had reached out to me on private message and said he would like to split the loss.
He want to split my loss as 50-50, of course it doesn’t do me good as I still do loose money.
I still told him that I am happy to split loss for $100 CAD of $415 CAD is Paid but I requested him to pay me $315 CAD back. Still waiting to hear from him since.
Still Unfair to you, IMO. What if he is just lying about the whole thing? Which means he makes off with part of the money. If he really cares about your "lost" money, then he should be refunding 100% of it with apologies at the least.@ Heisenberg63 had reached out to me on private message and said he would like to split the loss.
He want to split my loss as 50-50, of course it doesn’t do me good as I still do loose money.
I still told him that I am happy to split loss for $100 CAD of $415 CAD is Paid but I requested him to pay me $315 CAD back. Still waiting to hear from him since.
That is his responsibility.
I am still holding back my negative feedback, hoping he does the right thing, but all I just see are lies and irresponsibility from his side so far.
He should borrow a leaf from this users
1. Someone Loan using My Account
2. I've been hacked (Electrum 4.3.2)
Don't want to have to remove the positive trust from a while ago 
If your feedback in the past is due to the successful deal then there’s no need to delete it because it’s backed by successful transactions worthy of positive feedback. Let the new negative feed do their work on giving warning to other user that will potentially have deals with the user. That’s why you should only give positive trust to user that shows trust worthy act and he deserves that during the time of your deal.
Yeah I guess that makes sense, I've never had a negative experience with the guy when dealing with him, so I guess that's the only conception I have of him. Also, the fact that he's still here and trying to right whatever happened is a good sign, imo. Usually scammers will just take the money and dip. Given that he's done a lot of business on these forums, I'd be surprised if he left after this one deal if he really was trying to scam.
I don't really know what the phone/hacker/thief story is about, but what's the proper thing to do if Heisenberg63 ends up paying back the OP? Like is he cleared as a scammer, should we leave default trust, etc.?
Thought to share update.
@ Heisenberg63 had reached out to me on private message and said he would like to split the loss.
He want to split my loss as 50-50, of course it doesn’t do me good as I still do loose money.
I still told him that I am happy to split loss for $100 CAD of $415 CAD is Paid but I requested him to pay me $315 CAD back. Still waiting to hear from him since.
Don't want to have to remove the positive trust from a while ago
If your feedback in the past is due to the successful deal then there’s no need to delete it because it’s backed by successful transactions worthy of positive feedback. Let the new negative feed do their work on giving warning to other user that will potentially have deals with the user. That’s why you should only give positive trust to user that shows trust worthy act and he deserves that during the time of your deal.
Yeah I guess that makes sense, I've never had a negative experience with the guy when dealing with him, so I guess that's the only conception I have of him. Also, the fact that he's still here and trying to right whatever happened is a good sign, imo. Usually scammers will just take the money and dip. Given that he's done a lot of business on these forums, I'd be surprised if he left after this one deal if he really was trying to scam.
I don't really know what the phone/hacker/thief story is about, but what's the proper thing to do if Heisenberg63 ends up paying back the OP? Like is he cleared as a scammer, should we leave default trust, etc.?
Because he emptied my wallet as well, I think he used my wallet not to raise any suspicions with my guys.
So he got your phone, he got your wallet, what else he got?Your email, laptop, your door key, your spouse.
You must be doing a big business online. How much is your yearly turnover?
If you were my spouse, I will let him have you. Just fuck off if you do not know how to say appropriate things in such cases.
You and I know very well that none of us have any chance to be each others spouse. In fact, I don't think anyone will be interested to be a scammer's spouse. Many may be interested to be mine though but you need to know miss bitcointalk is an illusion 🤓
Because he emptied my wallet as well, I think he used my wallet not to raise any suspicions with my guys.
So he got your phone, he got your wallet, what else he got?Your email, laptop, your door key, your spouse.
You must be doing a big business online. How much is your yearly turnover?
If you were my spouse, I will let him have you. Just fuck off if you do not know how to say appropriate things in such cases.
I am sick of explaining everything to you guy and you keep blaming me as if i was the scammer, i am in a very bad situation and all of what you are doing is that you are seeming me that i was the scammer. I can not respond to every comment but my talk is now to the OP, give me a day or two and I will share the loss with you and will send you money you paid to that scammer back.
Sure I am waiting for another day or two as you are asking for.
I will be waiting to hear from you.
I am sending you a message now about the payment.
Noted! Will reply on message.
Because he emptied my wallet as well, I think he used my wallet not to raise any suspicions with my guys.
So he got your phone, he got your wallet, what else he got?Your email, laptop, your door key, your spouse.
You must be doing a big business online. How much is your yearly turnover?
If you were my spouse, I will let him have you. Just fuck off if you do not know how to say appropriate things in such cases.
I am sick of explaining everything to you guy and you keep blaming me as if i was the scammer, i am in a very bad situation and all of what you are doing is that you are seeming me that i was the scammer. I can not respond to every comment but my talk is now to the OP, give me a day or two and I will share the loss with you and will send you money you paid to that scammer back.
Sure I am waiting for another day or two as you are asking for.
I will be waiting to hear from you.
I am sending you a message now about the payment.
I am sick of explaining everything to you guy and you keep blaming me as if i was the scammer, i am in a very bad situation and all of what you are doing is that you are seeming me that i was the scammer.
you have to realize that you can't really blame us that we are suspecting you especially when your story is very suspicious and hard to believe. there is even new evidence that just further makes your story a lot more suspicious. Because he emptied my wallet as well, I think he used my wallet not to raise any suspicions with my guys.
Which wallet did you use on your phone?
As far as I know, every mobile wallet requires a password or PIN, and this cannot be reset even with access to email or a SIM card.
I guess you didn't keep the note with all the passwords on your phone.
Because he emptied my wallet as well, I think he used my wallet not to raise any suspicions with my guys.
So he got your phone, he got your wallet, what else he got?Your email, laptop, your door key, your spouse.
You must be doing a big business online. How much is your yearly turnover?
I am sick of explaining everything to you guy and you keep blaming me as if i was the scammer, i am in a very bad situation and all of what you are doing is that you are seeming me that i was the scammer. I can not respond to every comment but my talk is now to the OP, give me a day or two and I will share the loss with you and will send you money you paid to that scammer back.
Why don't you reset the Telegram account by email?
You did add an email address to the Telegram, I hope?
If your account had a 2FA password on it then you should still be able to lock them out somehow during the account reset process, unless the hacker changed the password to your telegram account (I dunno, by breaking open the password manager or something?)
Phone number is not the only way to log into Telegram.
Because he emptied my wallet as well, I think he used my wallet not to raise any suspicions with my guys.
Which wallet did you use on your phone?
As far as I know, every mobile wallet requires a password or PIN, and this cannot be reset even with access to email or a SIM card.
I guess you didn't keep the note with all the passwords on your phone.
I am sick of explaining everything to you guy and you keep blaming me as if i was the scammer, i am in a very bad situation and all of what you are doing is that you are seeming me that i was the scammer. I can not respond to every comment but my talk is now to the OP, give me a day or two and I will share the loss with you and will send you money you paid to that scammer back.
Don't be angry with anyone, because your explanations have no rational basis. Obviously, it has to wait one or two more days.
I am sick of explaining everything to you guy and you keep blaming me as if i was the scammer, i am in a very bad situation and all of what you are doing is that you are seeming me that i was the scammer. I can not respond to every comment but my talk is now to the OP, give me a day or two and I will share the loss with you and will send you money you paid to that scammer back.
Sure I am waiting for another day or two as you are asking for.
I will be waiting to hear from you.
I am sick of explaining everything to you guy and you keep blaming me as if i was the scammer, i am in a very bad situation and all of what you are doing is that you are seeming me that i was the scammer. I can not respond to every comment but my talk is now to the OP, give me a day or two and I will share the loss with you and will send you money you paid to that scammer back.
The use of the same LTC address(Lf3H5K7g6yGZGFNSd23zMZ36kvV7GkT8b3), on 2/18 and 3/9, makes this case fairly damning.
I cannot image why a scammer that stole the phone would provide the same LTC address as the original owner.
Because he emptied my wallet as well, I think he used my wallet not to raise any suspicions with my guys.I cannot image why a scammer that stole the phone would provide the same LTC address as the original owner.
I was silly enough not to secure my accounts and my phone to make it easier to reach out my apps quicker and i never expected to get robbed like that. That guy could reach to my exchange and my other wallets too.
Why couldn't the scammer hack your Bitcointalk account to prevent us from reading your lies? 
All the comments and evidence here condemn you and prove that you are involved in this scam, as your responses were as ridiculous as the one I am responding to now. How is it possible that you are responsible for a business here and your phone does not have 1% protection, and how could the scammer, if not you, have access to all of this? Is he a magician? How did you not notice everything that happened until after the OP posted this topic? You did not provide any evidence to defend yourself; it was just a blah blah, so take extra negative trust until you compensate the OP and return his stolen funds, which I believe you will not return to him again.
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Don't want to have to remove the positive trust from a while ago
If your feedback in the past is due to the successful deal then there’s no need to delete it because it’s backed by successful transactions worthy of positive feedback. Let the new negative feed do their work on giving warning to other user that will potentially have deals with the user. That’s why you should only give positive trust to user that shows trust worthy act and he deserves that during the time of your deal.
I read every comment on this thread, Believe me no one is in my position and i hope no one will be in my situation. I was silly enough not to secure my accounts and my phone to make it easier to reach out my apps quicker and i never expected to get robbed like that. That guy could reach to my exchange and my other wallets too and I am trying to get in touch with the support to find out who did that and to even try to track him out. Anyways I will reach the op once I get the hella out of this hell and I will try to get the money to compensate him ofc i have a big loss already and ofc I am not a scammer and I do not like to see someone get scammed and I know many of you has dealt with me for years and they know that I am not a scammer.
This is still vague excuse because how come a hacker can login your exchange account without knowing your password? Does your phone doesn’t have any security installed because the first thing thief will do on stolen gadget is to factory reset it to avoid being traced back by the owner.
There’s a feature on Android and Iphone that you can detect your device location when connected in the internet.
Because he emptied my wallet as well, I think he used my wallet not to raise any suspicions with my guys.
I checked the transaction of the ltc address Lf3H5K7g6yGZGFNSd23zMZ36kvV7GkT8b3, and there was new transaction just few hours ago, idk who you're dealing with that.The date of OP and your last transaction was last March 9 with this txid
-> c08498d6df9717994c1f25cb823daf33adf609fe7071b9bccd691ddf2a1e8f9d
But it was sent few hours later to this address, this is probably an exchange address
-> LZEjckteAtWrugbsy9zU8VHEZ4iUiXo9Nm
Upon researching it is from binance based from whale-alert.
Upon checking the old transactions, your all outgoing transaction including all in February are going to this this address LZEjckteAtWrugbsy9zU8VHEZ4iUiXo9Nm. Don't tell me that this address or your exchange account was compromised too, and still using even on your latest transaction few hours ago?
Being curious why most of the outgoing transactions are going to binance hot wallet address, thinking why they provided the same address, realizing that it is binance itself who transfer those transactions. So this address Lf3H5K7g6yGZGFNSd23zMZ36kvV7GkT8b3 is an exchange address, which you tell us that was hacked too. Scammer using the same wallet as the original owner for scamming is something a scammer won't do.
I read every comment on this thread, Believe me no one is in my position and i hope no one will be in my situation. I was silly enough not to secure my accounts and my phone to make it easier to reach out my apps quicker and i never expected to get robbed like that. That guy could reach to my exchange and my other wallets too and I am trying to get in touch with the support to find out who did that and to even try to track him out. Anyways I will reach the op once I get the hella out of this hell and I will try to get the money to compensate him ofc i have a big loss already and ofc I am not a scammer and I do not like to see someone get scammed and I know many of you has dealt with me for years and they know that I am not a scammer.
Let me focus my reply here to the OP, Please be patient with me and I will reach you out and obviously if i am the on who scammed you, i would bother to reply here or even to try to solve this situation out.
Because he emptied my wallet as well, I think he used my wallet not to raise any suspicions with my guys.
I checked the transaction of the ltc address Lf3H5K7g6yGZGFNSd23zMZ36kvV7GkT8b3, and there was new transaction just few hours ago, idk who you're dealing with that.The date of OP and your last transaction was last March 9 with this txid
-> c08498d6df9717994c1f25cb823daf33adf609fe7071b9bccd691ddf2a1e8f9d
But it was sent few hours later to this address, this is probably an exchange address
-> LZEjckteAtWrugbsy9zU8VHEZ4iUiXo9Nm
Upon researching it is from binance based from whale-alert.
Upon checking the old transactions, your all outgoing transaction including all in February are going to this this address LZEjckteAtWrugbsy9zU8VHEZ4iUiXo9Nm. Don't tell me that this address or your exchange account was compromised too, and still using even on your latest transaction few hours ago?
Being curious why most of the outgoing transactions are going to binance hot wallet address, thinking why they provided the same address, realizing that it is binance itself who transfer those transactions. So this address Lf3H5K7g6yGZGFNSd23zMZ36kvV7GkT8b3 is an exchange address, which you tell us that was hacked too. Scammer using the same wallet as the original owner for scamming is something a scammer won't do.
@Heisenberg63 would you mind explaining why the scammer using your address to scam people? and if the OP sent the LTC to your address, would you mind sending it back?
The chat just got cleared. I am glad I took screen shots of whatever I could.
do you have more screenshots of your previous dealings with him? if so, would you mind posting it too?I wish and hope to get a resolution as I am in a very bad situation and I was not willing to do a deal for loosing money.
sadly if Heisenberg63 is really planning on scamming you, there is a high chance that you won't get your money back. he'd either abandon his account or ignore you.But i did not do that and I am still here trying to figure out what happened.
The use of the same LTC address(Lf3H5K7g6yGZGFNSd23zMZ36kvV7GkT8b3), on 2/18 and 3/9, makes this case fairly damning.
I cannot image why a scammer that stole the phone would provide the same LTC address as the original owner.
Need an answer for that one..
I cannot image why a scammer that stole the phone would provide the same LTC address as the original owner.
Need an answer for that one..
Because he emptied my wallet as well, I think he used my wallet not to raise any suspicions with my guys.
ANY ONE GETS A MESSAGE FROM THAT TELEGRAM, JUST IGNORE IT AS IT WILL BE FROM THE SCAMMER NOT ME.
WOW! Really shocked reading this. Not saying what buyer or seller is saying is or is not true just that I have been dealing with Heisenberg63 FOR YEARS {but not in the last months) without issue. The "lost phone" excuse does sound kinda fluky though.
While he could have F'd up I'd bet that this will get fixed to everyone's satisfaction. Just seems so out of the norm for him. Hopefully it gets resolved.
While he could have F'd up I'd bet that this will get fixed to everyone's satisfaction. Just seems so out of the norm for him. Hopefully it gets resolved.
I really appreciate your feedback though and I am getting myself together and see what I can do. But first of all I am trying to secure every account I had on this fkn phone.
This is since last week Friday @ Heisenberg63 that you have not offered me something that I paid for. At least solve the matter you have in hand right now by solving the matter here first. That will remove unwanted suspicions and put your account in good standing which will let you give time to fix your sales thread as well as your ID’s and wallets.
Please refund me or deliver me what I paid for.
Because he emptied my wallet as well, I think he used my wallet not to raise any suspicions with my guys.
Like I don't buy this story, you lost your phone, and somehow the person who found the phone, or possibly the person who stole the phone, was able to pass your phone security without flashing and wiping that device.Okay, let's assume the person was able to do that. How do they know about your business of digital card buying and selling?
And which crypto wallet do you make use of? Did you not add extra security to the wallet, or did you just leave your device unprotected?
And among all the wallets you might have on your mobile phone, why would the person who stole your phone choose to make use of the LTC address? I assume it was never the buyer who suggested that address from the beginning.
I was the first to comment on this post, and I was thinking you were just busy or lost access to your device, but with the whole twisted story, I'm beginning to think otherwise.
Something tells me @Heisenberg63 is lying and this is going to even look worse for him.
1. So someone stole his phone, guessed his password, face ID or fingerprint of the mobile phone and immediately logged into his telegram and Bitcointalk account and started scamming users in the middle of the deal?
How sharp is that thief?
2. Heisenberg63 and the Phone thief share the same LTC address?
1. So someone stole his phone, guessed his password, face ID or fingerprint of the mobile phone and immediately logged into his telegram and Bitcointalk account and started scamming users in the middle of the deal?
How sharp is that thief?
2. Heisenberg63 and the Phone thief share the same LTC address?
WOW! Really shocked reading this. Not saying what buyer or seller is saying is or is not true just that I have been dealing with Heisenberg63 FOR YEARS {but not in the last months) without issue. The "lost phone" excuse does sound kinda fluky though.
While he could have F'd up I'd bet that this will get fixed to everyone's satisfaction. Just seems so out of the norm for him. Hopefully it gets resolved.
While he could have F'd up I'd bet that this will get fixed to everyone's satisfaction. Just seems so out of the norm for him. Hopefully it gets resolved.
Also find this particularly wild, I was mostly around years ago, but I've dealt with Heisenberg63 in the past (literally >3 years ago though), and I don't think I ever had a problem. Logging back on after a few years and his username is one that I vaguely remember seeing back in the day.
@Heisenberg63 would you mind explaining why the scammer using your address to scam people? and if the OP sent the LTC to your address, would you mind sending it back?
The chat just got cleared. I am glad I took screen shots of whatever I could.
do you have more screenshots of your previous dealings with him? if so, would you mind posting it too?I wish and hope to get a resolution as I am in a very bad situation and I was not willing to do a deal for loosing money.
sadly if Heisenberg63 is really planning on scamming you, there is a high chance that you won't get your money back. he'd either abandon his account or ignore you.But i did not do that and I am still here trying to figure out what happened.
The use of the same LTC address(Lf3H5K7g6yGZGFNSd23zMZ36kvV7GkT8b3), on 2/18 and 3/9, makes this case fairly damning.
I cannot image why a scammer that stole the phone would provide the same LTC address as the original owner.
Need an answer for that one..
I cannot image why a scammer that stole the phone would provide the same LTC address as the original owner.
Need an answer for that one..
Because he emptied my wallet as well, I think he used my wallet not to raise any suspicions with my guys.
ANY ONE GETS A MESSAGE FROM THAT TELEGRAM, JUST IGNORE IT AS IT WILL BE FROM THE SCAMMER NOT ME.
WOW! Really shocked reading this. Not saying what buyer or seller is saying is or is not true just that I have been dealing with Heisenberg63 FOR YEARS {but not in the last months) without issue. The "lost phone" excuse does sound kinda fluky though.
While he could have F'd up I'd bet that this will get fixed to everyone's satisfaction. Just seems so out of the norm for him. Hopefully it gets resolved.
While he could have F'd up I'd bet that this will get fixed to everyone's satisfaction. Just seems so out of the norm for him. Hopefully it gets resolved.
I really appreciate your feedback though and I am getting myself together and see what I can do. But first of all I am trying to secure every account I had on this fkn phone.
I'm assuming even if you lost your phone, it was secured with some form of password or key or something right? How would someone else have gotten into that? Also not sure if it's the same as other wallets, but do you have some backup recovery code for regaining access to your LTC wallet? If it's empty can you find where the funds were going to?
Don't want to have to remove the positive trust from a while ago
@Heisenberg63 would you mind explaining why the scammer using your address to scam people? and if the OP sent the LTC to your address, would you mind sending it back?
The chat just got cleared. I am glad I took screen shots of whatever I could.
do you have more screenshots of your previous dealings with him? if so, would you mind posting it too?I wish and hope to get a resolution as I am in a very bad situation and I was not willing to do a deal for loosing money.
sadly if Heisenberg63 is really planning on scamming you, there is a high chance that you won't get your money back. he'd either abandon his account or ignore you.But i did not do that and I am still here trying to figure out what happened.
The use of the same LTC address(Lf3H5K7g6yGZGFNSd23zMZ36kvV7GkT8b3), on 2/18 and 3/9, makes this case fairly damning.
I cannot image why a scammer that stole the phone would provide the same LTC address as the original owner.
Need an answer for that one..
I cannot image why a scammer that stole the phone would provide the same LTC address as the original owner.
Need an answer for that one..
Because he emptied my wallet as well, I think he used my wallet not to raise any suspicions with my guys.
ANY ONE GETS A MESSAGE FROM THAT TELEGRAM, JUST IGNORE IT AS IT WILL BE FROM THE SCAMMER NOT ME.
WOW! Really shocked reading this. Not saying what buyer or seller is saying is or is not true just that I have been dealing with Heisenberg63 FOR YEARS {but not in the last months) without issue. The "lost phone" excuse does sound kinda fluky though.
While he could have F'd up I'd bet that this will get fixed to everyone's satisfaction. Just seems so out of the norm for him. Hopefully it gets resolved.
While he could have F'd up I'd bet that this will get fixed to everyone's satisfaction. Just seems so out of the norm for him. Hopefully it gets resolved.
I really appreciate your feedback though and I am getting myself together and see what I can do. But first of all I am trying to secure every account I had on this fkn phone.
The use of the same LTC address(Lf3H5K7g6yGZGFNSd23zMZ36kvV7GkT8b3), on 2/18 and 3/9, makes this case fairly damning.
I cannot image why a scammer that stole the phone would provide the same LTC address as the original owner.
Need an answer for that one..
I cannot image why a scammer that stole the phone would provide the same LTC address as the original owner.
Need an answer for that one..
Adding more info.
My last deal I did had the same LTC address so in spite of Heisenberg63 loosing his phone his wallet access should remain with him.
check my last deal with Heisenberg63 in Feb with LTC address same as he asked me to make payment on Friday and ghosted me after.
screen shot: https://imgur.com/YCNzqjO
The chat just got cleared. I am glad I took screen shots of whatever I could.
My last deal I did had the same LTC address so in spite of Heisenberg63 loosing his phone his wallet access should remain with him.
check my last deal with Heisenberg63 in Feb with LTC address same as he asked me to make payment on Friday and ghosted me after.
screen shot: https://imgur.com/YCNzqjO
The chat just got cleared. I am glad I took screen shots of whatever I could.
Let's be clear, to make sure I understood everything correctly.
In February, you successfully made one trade, while in the other trade from March, you did not get what you paid for, and the seller used the same LTC address in both cases?
Heisenberg63's story doesn't add up. I'll follow this topic to see his response to this question. I'm very close to leaving a red warning tag.
I'm just going to leave a red tag because Heisenberg63 didn't show anything that would convince me that trading with him is not high risk. Even if what he claims is true, the way he runs his business is completely unprofessional.
Of course, if this case gets a positive epilogue, I will be happy to remove the red mark.
Yes the last two trades were of same LTC address of which one trade was completed successfully while the 2nd trade ended up me opening a scam report.
WOW! Really shocked reading this. Not saying what buyer or seller is saying is or is not true just that I have been dealing with Heisenberg63 FOR YEARS {but not in the last months) without issue. The "lost phone" excuse does sound kinda fluky though.
While he could have F'd up I'd bet that this will get fixed to everyone's satisfaction. Just seems so out of the norm for him. Hopefully it gets resolved.
While he could have F'd up I'd bet that this will get fixed to everyone's satisfaction. Just seems so out of the norm for him. Hopefully it gets resolved.
I am hoping that @Heisenberg63 takes onus and at least works towards a fix as he should be responsible for his equipment and like BitcoinGirl.club mentioned your account security is your liability and he needs to take responsibility.
I hope he returns here or reaches to me on Telegram with a fix. Since yesterday I have not heard of him.
legendary
Activity: 1919
Merit: 1230
AKA Ms-overzealous-condecsending-explitive-account
WOW! Really shocked reading this. Not saying what buyer or seller is saying is or is not true just that I have been dealing with Heisenberg63 FOR YEARS {but not in the last months) without issue. The "lost phone" excuse does sound kinda fluky though.
While he could have F'd up I'd bet that this will get fixed to everyone's satisfaction. Just seems so out of the norm for him. Hopefully it gets resolved.
While he could have F'd up I'd bet that this will get fixed to everyone's satisfaction. Just seems so out of the norm for him. Hopefully it gets resolved.
Adding more info.
My last deal I did had the same LTC address so in spite of Heisenberg63 loosing his phone his wallet access should remain with him.
check my last deal with Heisenberg63 in Feb with LTC address same as he asked me to make payment on Friday and ghosted me after.
screen shot: https://imgur.com/YCNzqjO
The chat just got cleared. I am glad I took screen shots of whatever I could.
My last deal I did had the same LTC address so in spite of Heisenberg63 loosing his phone his wallet access should remain with him.
check my last deal with Heisenberg63 in Feb with LTC address same as he asked me to make payment on Friday and ghosted me after.
screen shot: https://imgur.com/YCNzqjO
The chat just got cleared. I am glad I took screen shots of whatever I could.
Let's be clear, to make sure I understood everything correctly.
In February, you successfully made one trade, while in the other trade from March, you did not get what you paid for, and the seller used the same LTC address in both cases?
Heisenberg63's story doesn't add up. I'll follow this topic to see his response to this question. I'm very close to leaving a red warning tag.
I'm just going to leave a red tag because Heisenberg63 didn't show anything that would convince me that trading with him is not high risk. Even if what he claims is true, the way he runs his business is completely unprofessional.
Of course, if this case gets a positive epilogue, I will be happy to remove the red mark.
I just got access to everything now man but not the telegram account, I figured out many guys have been scammed after I opened my accounts back.
Please do not send any money to that guy who is having my tg.
Your account security is your liability. If you fail to secure it and anyone get scammed, you need to take the responsibility because practically you can not prove that it was not you. Please do not send any money to that guy who is having my tg.
My suggestion is, take the responsibility and pay the debts unless you have somewhere something which says you will not do any business without a signed message like here I announced.
@Heisenberg63 would you mind explaining why the scammer using your address to scam people? and if the OP sent the LTC to your address, would you mind sending it back?
Heisenberg63's story doesn't add up. I'll follow this topic to see his response to this question. I'm very close to leaving a red warning tag. Adding more info.
My last deal I did had the same LTC address so in spite of Heisenberg63 loosing his phone his wallet access should remain with him.
check my last deal with Heisenberg63 in Feb with LTC address same as he asked me to make payment on Friday and ghosted me after.
screen shot: https://imgur.com/YCNzqjO
The chat just got cleared. I am glad I took screen shots of whatever I could.
My last deal I did had the same LTC address so in spite of Heisenberg63 loosing his phone his wallet access should remain with him.
check my last deal with Heisenberg63 in Feb with LTC address same as he asked me to make payment on Friday and ghosted me after.
screen shot: https://imgur.com/YCNzqjO
The chat just got cleared. I am glad I took screen shots of whatever I could.
I will be surprised that he will use the excuse that scammer use his hack exchange account that login on his “lost phone” that doesn’t have any security pin, pattern or face identity security.
He should start changing all his account password including his telegram info since he does most of his transactions in the forum the moment he lost his phone. This seller that is too irresponsible to secure all his account after losing his phone is worthy not to be trusted on any future deals.
@Heisenberg63 would you mind explaining why the scammer using your address to scam people? and if the OP sent the LTC to your address, would you mind sending it back?
The chat just got cleared. I am glad I took screen shots of whatever I could.
do you have more screenshots of your previous dealings with him? if so, would you mind posting it too?I wish and hope to get a resolution as I am in a very bad situation and I was not willing to do a deal for loosing money.
sadly if Heisenberg63 is really planning on scamming you, there is a high chance that you won't get your money back. he'd either abandon his account or ignore you. Adding more info.
My last deal I did had the same LTC address so in spite of Heisenberg63 loosing his phone his wallet access should remain with him.
check my last deal with Heisenberg63 in Feb with LTC address same as he asked me to make payment on Friday and ghosted me after.
screen shot: https://imgur.com/YCNzqjO
The chat just got cleared. I am glad I took screen shots of whatever I could.
Bingo! So, the "lost phone" is just an excuse. It's suspicious already that you @Heisenberg63 waited until someone made a thread about you and the incident, before informing the public or people who are you dealing with. My last deal I did had the same LTC address so in spite of Heisenberg63 loosing his phone his wallet access should remain with him.
check my last deal with Heisenberg63 in Feb with LTC address same as he asked me to make payment on Friday and ghosted me after.
screen shot: https://imgur.com/YCNzqjO
The chat just got cleared. I am glad I took screen shots of whatever I could.
What more excuses are you gonna say @Heisenberg63? Your positive tags/review will turn to reds if you will not refund OP. So make your choice.
Adding more info.
My last deal I did had the same LTC address so in spite of Heisenberg63 loosing his phone his wallet access should remain with him.
check my last deal with Heisenberg63 in Feb with LTC address same as he asked me to make payment on Friday and ghosted me after.
screen shot: https://imgur.com/YCNzqjO
The chat just got cleared. I am glad I took screen shots of whatever I could.
My last deal I did had the same LTC address so in spite of Heisenberg63 loosing his phone his wallet access should remain with him.
check my last deal with Heisenberg63 in Feb with LTC address same as he asked me to make payment on Friday and ghosted me after.
screen shot: https://imgur.com/YCNzqjO
The chat just got cleared. I am glad I took screen shots of whatever I could.
Please do share the second screenshots too where he replied to your friend's text. If the evidence shows that he is simply pretending to be offline and ignoring your messages while replying to other people, then we shall tag and flag his profile.
One can not just simply start ghosting in the middle of a deal. It's shady behavior
One can not just simply start ghosting in the middle of a deal. It's shady behavior
Here you go : https://imgur.com/YgIxHj2
I am here man, DO NOT DEAL WITH THAT TELEGRAM NOW BECAUSE I LOST MY PHONE AND IT APPEARS THAT THE STEALER IS SCAMMING MY CONTACTS.
Do you want to say here how you lost your phone, but someone who found it somehow recognized your business model and is deceiving people by selling them your services, which of course they do not deliver? It sounds a bit unbelievable to me, but everything is possible.
These are very serious things, why didn't you immediately delete the old Telegram username from your posts and replace it with a new one (if you have one)? Why did you wait for a scam accusation against you to claim this, why didn't you do it immediately and in that way prevent the potential misuse of your TG account?
As far as I know, with your phone number, you can log in to the TG account registered with it. That way you can fully regain control over it.
I second what is said here. Right now I am in a loss and there is not clear explanation but the fact that you lost your phone. You being into a business you should have created a thread the same second your realized your phone is lost and someone else could be scamming your contacts
Being travelling and all I had at that time was my phone so how can I access anything? I total understand your frustration and really sorry for your loss man but I will get in touch with you to figure out how to solve this. Send your telegram in a PM and I will have a new one then I will message you.
I have already sent you a PM with my telegram ID and waiting to here from you. Do you have a turn around time for me?
I did that already, I removed my telegram from my profile immediately to stop this guy from scamming more people.
Is this your right Telegram account here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wts-ebay-egift-codes-escrow-is-accepted-daily-supply-5154316
and here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.51564998
Since you changed the password on your forum account, is there any chance to sign a message on the BTC address which you use on Bitcointalk
this BTC address: 1DDcgWEwgZfqDW51grWFgLEPxWSPhDxwdC posted here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.43245540
This would remove any doubt that the account has changed owners in the meantime.
I second what is said here. Right now I am in a loss and there is not clear explanation but the fact that you lost your phone. You being into a business you should have created a thread the same second your realized your phone is lost and someone else could be scamming your contacts
Yes, you are right, it seems quite suspicious.
Also, the fact that the person who found the phone is somehow involved in his business and is defrauding people without any problem.
I can not sign it because I was using an exchange back then.
I am here man, DO NOT DEAL WITH THAT TELEGRAM NOW BECAUSE I LOST MY PHONE AND IT APPEARS THAT THE STEALER IS SCAMMING MY CONTACTS.
Do you want to say here how you lost your phone, but someone who found it somehow recognized your business model and is deceiving people by selling them your services, which of course they do not deliver? It sounds a bit unbelievable to me, but everything is possible.
These are very serious things, why didn't you immediately delete the old Telegram username from your posts and replace it with a new one (if you have one)? Why did you wait for a scam accusation against you to claim this, why didn't you do it immediately and in that way prevent the potential misuse of your TG account?
As far as I know, with your phone number, you can log in to the TG account registered with it. That way you can fully regain control over it.
I second what is said here. Right now I am in a loss and there is not clear explanation but the fact that you lost your phone. You being into a business you should have created a thread the same second your realized your phone is lost and someone else could be scamming your contacts
Being travelling and all I had at that time was my phone so how can I access anything? I total understand your frustration and really sorry for your loss man but I will get in touch with you to figure out how to solve this. Send your telegram in a PM and I will have a new one then I will message you.
I did that already, I removed my telegram from my profile immediately to stop this guy from scamming more people.
Is this your right Telegram account here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wts-ebay-egift-codes-escrow-is-accepted-daily-supply-5154316
and here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.51564998
Since you changed the password on your forum account, is there any chance to sign a message on the BTC address which you use on Bitcointalk
this BTC address: 1DDcgWEwgZfqDW51grWFgLEPxWSPhDxwdC posted here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.43245540
This would remove any doubt that the account has changed owners in the meantime.
I second what is said here. Right now I am in a loss and there is not clear explanation but the fact that you lost your phone. You being into a business you should have created a thread the same second your realized your phone is lost and someone else could be scamming your contacts
Yes, you are right, it seems quite suspicious.
Also, the fact that the person who found the phone is somehow involved in his business and is defrauding people without any problem.
I am here man, DO NOT DEAL WITH THAT TELEGRAM NOW BECAUSE I LOST MY PHONE AND IT APPEARS THAT THE STEALER IS SCAMMING MY CONTACTS.
Do you want to say here how you lost your phone, but someone who found it somehow recognized your business model and is deceiving people by selling them your services, which of course they do not deliver? It sounds a bit unbelievable to me, but everything is possible.
These are very serious things, why didn't you immediately delete the old Telegram username from your posts and replace it with a new one (if you have one)? Why did you wait for a scam accusation against you to claim this, why didn't you do it immediately and in that way prevent the potential misuse of your TG account?
As far as I know, with your phone number, you can log in to the TG account registered with it. That way you can fully regain control over it.
I second what is said here. Right now I am in a loss and there is not clear explanation but the fact that you lost your phone. You being into a business you should have created a thread the same second your realized your phone is lost and someone else could be scamming your contacts
I am here man, DO NOT DEAL WITH THAT TELEGRAM NOW BECAUSE I LOST MY PHONE AND IT APPEARS THAT THE STEALER IS SCAMMING MY CONTACTS.
Do you want to say here how you lost your phone, but someone who found it somehow recognized your business model and is deceiving people by selling them your services, which of course they do not deliver? It sounds a bit unbelievable to me, but everything is possible.
These are very serious things, why didn't you immediately delete the old Telegram username from your posts and replace it with a new one (if you have one)? Why did you wait for a scam accusation against you to claim this, why didn't you do it immediately and in that way prevent the potential misuse of your TG account?
As far as I know, with your phone number, you can log in to the TG account registered with it. That way you can fully regain control over it.
I did that already, I removed my telegram from my profile immediately to stop this guy from scamming more people.
I am here man, DO NOT DEAL WITH THAT TELEGRAM NOW BECAUSE I LOST MY PHONE AND IT APPEARS THAT THE STEALER IS SCAMMING MY CONTACTS.
Do you want to say here how you lost your phone, but someone who found it somehow recognized your business model and is deceiving people by selling them your services, which of course they do not deliver? It sounds a bit unbelievable to me, but everything is possible.
These are very serious things, why didn't you immediately delete the old Telegram username from your posts and replace it with a new one (if you have one)? Why did you wait for a scam accusation against you to claim this, why didn't you do it immediately and in that way prevent the potential misuse of your TG account?
As far as I know, with your phone number, you can log in to the TG account registered with it. That way you can fully regain control over it.
I just got access to everything now man but not the telegram account, I figured out many guys have been scammed after I opened my accounts back.
Please do not send any money to that guy who is having my tg.
Please do not send any money to that guy who is having my tg.
I am here man, DO NOT DEAL WITH THAT TELEGRAM NOW BECAUSE I LOST MY PHONE AND IT APPEARS THAT THE STEALER IS SCAMMING MY CONTACTS.
You have acess to this froum and I sent you a private message 24 hours ago.
I lost money and it is by your account so fix that please.
If you lost your phone than prove it and why did you not post here and other places that you lost phone and your Telegram is being used by scammer?
I am here man, DO NOT DEAL WITH THAT TELEGRAM NOW BECAUSE I LOST MY PHONE AND IT APPEARS THAT THE STEALER IS SCAMMING MY CONTACTS.
Please do share the second screenshots too where he replied to your friend's text. If the evidence shows that he is simply pretending to be offline and ignoring your messages while replying to other people, then we shall tag and flag his profile.
One can not just simply start ghosting in the middle of a deal. It's shady behavior
One can not just simply start ghosting in the middle of a deal. It's shady behavior
Sorry for the inconvenience, but where did you get the Telegram username from? As I can't find the dealer's telegram ID on the reference link you shared, if it was truly from the dealer, then he might have been busy or something else. As I can see from the screenshot you shared, the last time he read your message was immediately after he said, Wait, please.
Also on this forum, he has not been online for the past few days; maybe something might have happened—a faulty gadget or anything—that could disrupt his internet access. If you are in a hurry, I would advise you to wait a little longer. The person in question has completed a lot of deals here, at least from what I can see in his trust list.
Also on this forum, he has not been online for the past few days; maybe something might have happened—a faulty gadget or anything—that could disrupt his internet access. If you are in a hurry, I would advise you to wait a little longer. The person in question has completed a lot of deals here, at least from what I can see in his trust list.
The seller is acting smart.
His old thread has his ID of Telegram: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wts-ebay-egift-codes-escrow-is-accepted-daily-supply-5154316
At the end on the Thread it says : “ Contact me here on the forum or on telegram : @eldon1”
To your 2nd point where his device could be faulty: He just replied to a friend who messaged him on Telegram for sales enquiry. I am happy to share snapshot in private as my friend is not willing to share his identity.
Any support to bring such reputed seller being bad would be helpful.
Sorry for the inconvenience, but where did you get the Telegram username from? As I can't find the dealer's telegram ID on the reference link you shared, if it was truly from the dealer, then he might have been busy or something else. As I can see from the screenshot you shared, the last time he read your message was immediately after he said, Wait, please.
Also on this forum, he has not been online for the past few days; maybe something might have happened—a faulty gadget or anything—that could disrupt his internet access. If you are in a hurry, I would advise you to wait a little longer. The person in question has completed a lot of deals here, at least from what I can see in his trust list.
Also on this forum, he has not been online for the past few days; maybe something might have happened—a faulty gadget or anything—that could disrupt his internet access. If you are in a hurry, I would advise you to wait a little longer. The person in question has completed a lot of deals here, at least from what I can see in his trust list.
What happened:: Scammed me for 294.89 USD
Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/heisenberg63-2313812
Reference Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5231477.new#new and
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5368181.new#new and
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wts-ebay-egift-codes-escrow-is-accepted-daily-supply-5154316
Amount Scammed: 294.80 USD
Payment Method: Crypto / LTC
Proof of Payment: https://blockchair.com/litecoin/transaction/c08498d6df9717994c1f25cb823daf33adf609fe7071b9bccd691ddf2a1e8f9d?From=crypto.com
PM/Chat Logs: https://imgur.com/a/MBl3RB6
Additional Notes: Have reached out to him on Friday asking if he has 500 CAD worth Amazon.ca vouchers. He replies confirming that he has them. I load up my wallet and send him payment. Upon sending payment info he says me to wait and ever since than he never read any of my comments. I be patient and wait hoping he will reply since he said he may fall asleep and he never replied to me after that. A friend of mine messaged him from a different ID and he instantly responds to him. I can share proofs of that too if needed.
Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/heisenberg63-2313812
Reference Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5231477.new#new and
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5368181.new#new and
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wts-ebay-egift-codes-escrow-is-accepted-daily-supply-5154316
Amount Scammed: 294.80 USD
Payment Method: Crypto / LTC
Proof of Payment: https://blockchair.com/litecoin/transaction/c08498d6df9717994c1f25cb823daf33adf609fe7071b9bccd691ddf2a1e8f9d?From=crypto.com
PM/Chat Logs: https://imgur.com/a/MBl3RB6
Additional Notes: Have reached out to him on Friday asking if he has 500 CAD worth Amazon.ca vouchers. He replies confirming that he has them. I load up my wallet and send him payment. Upon sending payment info he says me to wait and ever since than he never read any of my comments. I be patient and wait hoping he will reply since he said he may fall asleep and he never replied to me after that. A friend of mine messaged him from a different ID and he instantly responds to him. I can share proofs of that too if needed.
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