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South Park

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Quote from: Emitdama on November 11, 2020, 03:44:06 AM

That depends on what they mean by retail trading of bitcoin, because anyone can decide to send Bitcoin to another person and have them give them cash, so is that what they are referring to or people who open up a business space for the main purpose of buying and selling of Bitcoin. Here that I am staying, retail is the trend and that’s because people see it as more profitable than when they are trading with exchanges.

There are always so many people that would want to sell their cryptocurrencies to you face to face than those that would make use of exchanges to sell them.

I think it is the other way around, people are choosing convenience over the ideals of bitcoin and when you add that we are in the middle of a pandemic it makes sense that people do not want to exchange bitcoins face to face and they prefer to use an exchange to do that, but we need for people to understand that while this option is available it is not the best especially if they care about their privacy which is being challenged on all fronts by governments and private corporations.

Emitdama

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That depends on what they mean by retail trading of bitcoin, because anyone can decide to send Bitcoin to another person and have them give them cash, so is that what they are referring to or people who open up a business space for the main purpose of buying and selling of Bitcoin. Here that I am staying, retail is the trend and that’s because people see it as more profitable than when they are trading with exchanges.

There are always so many people that would want to sell their cryptocurrencies to you face to face than those that would make use of exchanges to sell them.

South Park

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I am terrible at Fantasy Football!!!

Quote from: hugeblack on November 03, 2020, 04:55:10 PM

Regulatory pressure to get more money, it appears that countries will accept digital platforms in exchange for imposing more taxes on them.
The current approach will allow many service providers to make more efforts, especially since most of them establish these companies by disregarding fraud and price manipulation.

We knew this was coming, any kind of centralization in this market can be attacked by governments because they are experts on doing exactly that, exchanges are a big weak point as instead of doing P2P trades people have decided to use centralized institutions like exchanges and governments are doing what they always do, to take a cut and try to limit the freedoms of people, this is why we need decentralized exchanges more than anything and yet it seems they are not ready to be as good as their centralized counterparts.

Findingnemo

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Bitcoin = Financial freedom

Quote from: jaberwock on November 10, 2020, 12:41:15 PM

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 08, 2020, 03:00:47 AM

If regulations makes it more tougher for a common citizen to buy cryptos then the regulations itself is the reason why things are getting more support in the dark world. So any government wants to regulate the cryptocurrency trading should take account of this or else its just the revenue loss for them since people are going to trade at some other ways.

It is similar to how some countries ban gambling and believe they are now doing good but the truth is people will find ways to gamble. Similarly you cannot stop people from buying and selling or even trading cryptocurrencies because there are countless ways to do that, there are peer to peer exchanges then there are DEX who don't need your KYC either.

There are decentralized exchanges there but when we want to covert fiat into crypto and vice versa the problem will exist like KYC or we maybe forced to pay higher than the market price but definitely there are ways to do and important thing is all the money goes out of the radar when government oppose such things.

jaberwock

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Quote from: Findingnemo on November 08, 2020, 03:00:47 AM

If regulations makes it more tougher for a common citizen to buy cryptos then the regulations itself is the reason why things are getting more support in the dark world. So any government wants to regulate the cryptocurrency trading should take account of this or else its just the revenue loss for them since people are going to trade at some other ways.

It is similar to how some countries ban gambling and believe they are now doing good but the truth is people will find ways to gamble. Similarly you cannot stop people from buying and selling or even trading cryptocurrencies because there are countless ways to do that, there are peer to peer exchanges then there are DEX who don't need your KYC either.

Quote from: bryant.coleman on November 08, 2020, 09:11:24 AM

I was expecting this. With every passing day, Hong Kong is losing its administrative and financial freedom and the People's Republic of China is now controlling most of the aspects there. Very soon the special privileges that are granted to Hong Kong (as per the treaty between the United Kingdom and China) will be cancelled and Hong Kong will just become another municipality within mainland China.

But actually China is the biggest mining country for Bitcoins if my facts are right because I read in an article that China produces massive mining for bitcoins and some articles even were concerned about 51% attack. So if China allows that why would they ban crypto if they are in control of Hong Kong financial decisions.

wack slacker

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As far as I know, the protests and terrorist activities that took place last year in Hong Kong were funded by international organizations through Bitcoin and crypto. The government is not worried about citizens who own Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies participating in cryptocurrency exchanges for anti-government purposes. Hong Kong is a small country next to China and if they want to develop, they need the leadership and control from the government to avoid similar protests from happening.

bits4books

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Crypto is not a religion but i like it

Quote from: jaysabi on November 07, 2020, 11:37:40 PM

Quote from: bits4books on November 05, 2020, 07:31:18 AM

Few people here may like this opinion - but I believe that this is the right step.
You don't try to pay with A Snickers wrapper at the grocery store because you think it's money, do you? It's the same here - for your token to be considered a legitimate means of payment, it must meet certain requirements (including KYC). This will really help clean the market of garbage and make it
a) more transparent
b) more reliable
If I know for sure that a particular coin meets the established standards, then I am much more comfortable to use it rather than some dark token that doesn't even have a team on the site.
Again , this is another step towards a long and mutually beneficial coexistence and cooperation between the state and cryptocurrencies.

I share this sentiment about regulation of exchanges being necessary for confidence in the system, and a necessary part of that is KYC. I think it's because of the nature of how bitcoin started that so many people are opposed to it, but it's necessary to reach mass adoption. Regulation gives it legitimacy and gives people confidence there will be consequences and recourse for bad actors.

That's it.
It just so happened that without normal regulation, it is impossible to use any service and feel safe - this applies to cryptocurrencies and exchanges, among other things.
Until appearance of the normal mechanisms of regulation and asset insurance are created, as well as the most ordinary control we will not see mass legal adoption.
Yes, everyone is drowning for total decentralization and everything else, but again - it just so happened that we do not live on an island in a vast ocean where you can do whatever you want, but live in a society.

TopT3ns

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Quote from: ?? on ??

In a globalized economy, these bans will have hardly any impact. The users will create accounts with cryptocurrency exchanges, which are based in countries such as South Korea or Japan. If they use a VPN, I don't think that the authorities in Hong Kong can prevent them in trading with cryptocurrencies. The only outcome will be revenue loss for the government of Hong Kong.

I think the Hong Kong government should not play a role in the income of cryptocurrency traders from their country because cryptocurrency price movements should have a volume of price movements that are not influenced by the government, I think you only need to change the DNS server IP used so you can access anywhere even though the country you prohibit access to the cryptocurrency website you can still open it.

DrG

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Quote from: Kopetunto on November 09, 2020, 04:06:13 AM

I haven't heard this news on several telegram channels, usually if there is bad news it will spread there,
but this hasn't, is this part of Fud? If HongKong does plan to block cryptocurrencies it will be very bad for Bitcoin..
and I also see that the price of Bitcoin is increasing even though this news is published.

How do you figure "it will be very bad for Bitcoin..". China blocked bitcoin over 5 years ago and yet they make most of the crypto mining hardware (ASICs and GPUs alike). I conceed that Hong Kong is not China per say, but if you say that in Beijing good luck on seeing sunshine for 10 years Tongue

Again it's just China trying to assert its authority over a region. China didn't build the Qinghai–Tibet railway just to make it easier for Tibetans to be tourist in China...

el kaka22

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Iran also uses crypto to go around the ban from USA, so as you can see there are nations that uses it for something to help themselves and there are nations that uses it to ban it and make it illegal, governments differ from each other and none of them can do anything about it.

Iran has already used crypto without government accepting it as a legal matter, they were selling stuff and buying stuff from other nations using bitcoin way before government got involved, and Hong Kong will maybe not use retail trading obviously, but they will find a way to get around the law and do it anyway without caring about government allowing it or not. If bitcoin people cared about what governments thought about us, we wouldn't have been here, we ignored them to grow this big and made them acknowledge us.

Kopetunto

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I haven't heard this news on several telegram channels, usually if there is bad news it will spread there,
but this hasn't, is this part of Fud? If HongKong does plan to block cryptocurrencies it will be very bad for Bitcoin..
and I also see that the price of Bitcoin is increasing even though this news is published.

RealMalatesta

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This is just a way to make crypto a bit more centralized if it wants to get mass adoption and I am not sure if I am fine with that. Money in itself wasn't the source of the problem to begin with, what humanity did with that money was the trouble that got created.

Banks wanted you to pay interest but if everyone is capable of paying their interest where did the extra money came from? What would happen if banks started to accept bitcoin? Will they want interest from it? What if 21 million coins were all loaned out?

With interest it makes more than 21 million that needs to be repaid but there is only 21 million available even at max. So, centralization kills all currencies and I would say let Hong Kong not have any digital currencies if the other option is to make it centralized.

DrG

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Suppress the crypto currencies so that you can establish your own digital Yuan. Nice move China. They claim they're preventing fraud but the main attempt seem to be to prevent capital flight. If this kind of legislation keeps changing Hong Kong then I can see the property value of those billion dollar buildings start to come down from their stratospheric pricing. The real estate market will be a good leading indicator.

bryant.coleman

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Well.. I was expecting this. With every passing day, Hong Kong is losing its administrative and financial freedom and the People's Republic of China is now controlling most of the aspects there. Very soon the special privileges that are granted to Hong Kong (as per the treaty between the United Kingdom and China) will be cancelled and Hong Kong will just become another municipality within mainland China.

Findingnemo

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Bitcoin = Financial freedom

If regulations makes it more tougher for a common citizen to buy cryptos then the regulations itself is the reason why things are getting more support in the dark world. So any government wants to regulate the cryptocurrency trading should take account of this or else its just the revenue loss for them since people are going to trade at some other ways.

jaysabi

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Quote from: bits4books on November 05, 2020, 07:31:18 AM

Few people here may like this opinion - but I believe that this is the right step.
You don't try to pay with A Snickers wrapper at the grocery store because you think it's money, do you? It's the same here - for your token to be considered a legitimate means of payment, it must meet certain requirements (including KYC). This will really help clean the market of garbage and make it
a) more transparent
b) more reliable
If I know for sure that a particular coin meets the established standards, then I am much more comfortable to use it rather than some dark token that doesn't even have a team on the site.
Again , this is another step towards a long and mutually beneficial coexistence and cooperation between the state and cryptocurrencies.

I share this sentiment about regulation of exchanges being necessary for confidence in the system, and a necessary part of that is KYC. I think it's because of the nature of how bitcoin started that so many people are opposed to it, but it's necessary to reach mass adoption. Regulation gives it legitimacy and gives people confidence there will be consequences and recourse for bad actors.

verita1

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Quote

The government planned to release a consultation paper on Tuesday afternoon to collect views on the proposed new rules, which aim to offer investors better protection by combating fraud and money laundering.

I agree with the main objective by the Hong Kong government. Preventing fraud and money laundering is an important job for any nation. Illicit activities do not benefit people, they are detrimental to any economy.

bits4books

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Crypto is not a religion but i like it

Quote from: stompix on November 05, 2020, 05:28:31 PM

Quote from: bits4books on November 05, 2020, 07:31:18 AM

Few people here may like this opinion - but I believe that this is the right step.
You don't try to pay with A Snickers wrapper at the grocery store because you think it's money, do you? It's the same here - for your token to be considered a legitimate means of payment, it must meet certain requirements (including KYC). This will really help clean the market of garbage and make it

So if I show the clerk my id and the id of Franklin Clarence Mars he should accept my wrapper as money? If I pay him in cash do I have to provide KYC? Or if I pay in a foreign country with a foreign debit card?
I'm not a fan of tokens and I know that 99.9% of them are useless garbage but KYC alone means well..shit..when it comes to accepting it.

No, because your candy wrappers are not included in the General pool of acceptable currency payments.

You already have a passport, which means that you, roughly speaking, have already passed KYC from birth. You already have birth certificate, medical police, passport, driver's license, etc. Having the country's citizenship, you automatically have a " Fiat KYC"

I'm not saying that KYC is a panacea, but this is the first step to making the token less suspicious than just random exchange garbage.

Chrystora123

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Omicron is another FUD

Quote from: Dorodha on November 07, 2020, 05:31:27 AM

Countries that are banning crypto will support crypto if they know the proper use of crypto Hong Kong is banning the retail business of digital currency because they think their country's central currency is more acceptable. digital currencies is worthy of support everywhere and the government can run as it pleases. In the case of crypto digital currencies is completely different. No one can control crypto and the government does not get any tax subsidy from here the growing demand for crypto will have a positive impact on the whole world.

If taxes are the reason the Hong Kong government bans crypto trading there, in fact, they (the Hong Kong government) can impose taxes on businesses that use cryptocurrency. I think they have another goal (perhaps to market digital yuan)..

Quote from: Mauser on November 07, 2020, 06:24:39 AM

Also the political landscape will likely change with the digital Yuan in my opinion. Once China is fully promoting their own digital currency I am sure Hong Kong will make special rules for the Yuan. Overall I think China wants to make sure people are not using other crypto currency and will focus on the digital Yuan in the future.

right, your guess is the same as me, this is just a game, they (Hongkong government) have another scenario. We know very well that the Hong Kong government is still under pressure from the Chinese government..

Mauser

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Quote from: Dorodha on November 07, 2020, 05:31:27 AM

Countries that are banning crypto will support crypto if they know the proper use of crypto Hong Kong is banning the retail business of digital currency because they think their country's central currency is more acceptable. digital currencies is worthy of support everywhere and the government can run as it pleases. In the case of crypto digital currencies is completely different. No one can control crypto and the government does not get any tax subsidy from here the growing demand for crypto will have a positive impact on the whole world.

Also the political landscape will likely change with the digital Yuan in my opinion. Once China is fully promoting their own digital currency I am sure Hong Kong will make special rules for the Yuan. Overall I think China wants to make sure people are not using other crypto currency and will focus on the digital Yuan in the future.

Dorodha

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Countries that are banning crypto will support crypto if they know the proper use of crypto Hong Kong is banning the retail business of digital currency because they think their country's central currency is more acceptable. digital currencies is worthy of support everywhere and the government can run as it pleases. In the case of crypto digital currencies is completely different. No one can control crypto and the government does not get any tax subsidy from here the growing demand for crypto will have a positive impact on the whole world.

arwin100

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Quote from: lixer on November 05, 2020, 12:25:52 PM

I hope they don’t make such law where I live because retail traders has been my highest selling point, I make bigger profit when I sell to some small exchange or retailers where I live than when I sell my coins on exchanges. They might be right about the money laundering issue because there are some dumb people that are always trying to ruin every good thing.

Moreover, the government seems to be doing everything possible now to clamp down on crypto, and they are starting with centralized exchanges, that’s how they are gaining control. I have been seeing posts like this recently, everyone complaining.

Hopefully not since if major countries will ban crypto from retail or other use then provably the 3rd world or other country will follow so we need to see some more positive news and great adoption so that the government will consider it's usage and see the potential. Since if they are feed up with negatives for sure they will do such actions which we don't like.

For now there are less country doing that but other who ban crypto are slowly opening their doors again so maybe that's temporary ban only but let see.

exstasie

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Quote from: arallmuus on November 05, 2020, 03:46:10 PM

Well Binance is really dominating the market right now as we speak and they are making tons from it. Any Government from where they set their operation, would want a piece of that chunk they are making .

That's also why Binance is so secretive about where they operate from. CZ says vague things like "we operate from many different countries" and "we have no headquarters" to obscure the fact that they pay no taxes to anyone, and that nobody knows where to find them.

Quote from: arallmuus on November 05, 2020, 03:46:10 PM

Malta is definitely the new Hong Kong / Japan for anything that is now considered 'illegal' from where you live.

No way. They're a member of the EU. Maybe that was true a few years ago before the AML directives caught up to crypto, and before Malta established their own regulatory regime, but not now.

Africa and the Caribbean are the last sanctuaries for shady crypto exchanges. And now that the US government is going after Bitmex anyway, even that is being thrown into question.

stompix

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Quote from: Salauddin1994 on November 05, 2020, 12:38:10 AM

The proposed chinese security law in hong kong has added a new dimension to sino usrelations known as the trump banned immigration digital currency project if it is controlled properly it will not be suspended the demand for bitcoin crypto will increase in the case of transactions.

What the f.... Huh

Quote from: tbterryboy on November 04, 2020, 03:23:57 PM

Wouldn't expect this from Hong Kong because usually they are one of the most elite tech places in the world while not having that much influence from China like they used to,

It's the opposite, the influence was negligible twenty years ago now it off the roof.

Quote from: bits4books on November 05, 2020, 07:31:18 AM

Few people here may like this opinion - but I believe that this is the right step.
You don't try to pay with A Snickers wrapper at the grocery store because you think it's money, do you? It's the same here - for your token to be considered a legitimate means of payment, it must meet certain requirements (including KYC). This will really help clean the market of garbage and make it

So if I show the clerk my id and the id of Franklin Clarence Mars he should accept my wrapper as money? If I pay him in cash do I have to provide KYC? Or if I pay in a foreign country with a foreign debit card?
I'm not a fan of tokens and I know that 99.9% of them are useless garbage but KYC alone means well..shit..when it comes to accepting it.

Quote from: arallmuus on November 05, 2020, 03:46:10 PM

Malta is definitely the new Hong Kong / Japan for anything that is now considered 'illegal' from where you live.

You know that Binance is not actually based in Malta and they hold no license, OkEx is supposedly based there but that didn't stop Chinese authorities to arrest their owner, and with the new FATF guidelines I doubt many will rush to it. If what you do is considered illegal in your country prepare for the worse, no matter where this is taking place "virtually". Oh, should I also mention Bitmex who were supposed to be in another "safe" heaven?

arallmuus

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Quote from: buwaytress on November 05, 2020, 08:11:01 AM

I actually thought Hong Kong already made licensing a requirement, so this is of some news.

It was more or less in the gray area.

Quote from: buwaytress on November 05, 2020, 08:11:01 AM

Hong Kong (China)

Some people might disagree with you addressing Hong Kong as China. Personally I dont really care but there is a tendency that some people think that Hong kong is the safe haven of China.

Quote from: buwaytress on November 05, 2020, 08:11:01 AM

I always thought they'd chase him down everywhere but apparently they just want you to pay tax and not do things to make their regulators' life difficult is all.

Well Binance is really dominating the market right now as we speak and they are making tons from it. Any Government from where they set their operation, would want a piece of that chunk they are making . They are probably paying alot already to set up their operation in those countries but the law that bind all these cryptocurrencies retail / exchanges can be easily altered as The Government wish to milk taxes as much as possible

Quote from: ?? on ??

After all, users can find the best solution outside of Hong Kong.

Malta is definitely the new Hong Kong / Japan for anything that is now considered 'illegal' from where you live.

lixer

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I hope they don’t make such law where I live because retail traders has been my highest selling point, I make bigger profit when I sell to some small exchange or retailers where I live than when I sell my coins on exchanges. They might be right about the money laundering issue because there are some dumb people that are always trying to ruin every good thing.

Moreover, the government seems to be doing everything possible now to clamp down on crypto, and they are starting with centralized exchanges, that’s how they are gaining control. I have been seeing posts like this recently, everyone complaining.

buwaytress

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I actually thought Hong Kong already made licensing a requirement, so this is of some news. But ever since Binance moved out of that jurisdiction in 2017 was it to Japan, and then moved later to Malta (2018 maybe?) it's been old news that you just can't run an exchange out of Hong Kong (China) any more, not without making strict concessions to CCP. I always thought they'd chase him down everywhere but apparently they just want you to pay tax and not do things to make their regulators' life difficult is all.

bits4books

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Crypto is not a religion but i like it

Few people here may like this opinion - but I believe that this is the right step.
You don't try to pay with A Snickers wrapper at the grocery store because you think it's money, do you? It's the same here - for your token to be considered a legitimate means of payment, it must meet certain requirements (including KYC). This will really help clean the market of garbage and make it
a) more transparent
b) more reliable
If I know for sure that a particular coin meets the established standards, then I am much more comfortable to use it rather than some dark token that doesn't even have a team on the site.
Again , this is another step towards a long and mutually beneficial coexistence and cooperation between the state and cryptocurrencies.

Salauddin1994

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A hong kong digital currency exchange has suspended trading following a security breach in which thieves broke into millions of dollars worth of bitcoin due to which hong kong has banned retail trade of digital currency. The proposed chinese security law in hong kong has added a new dimension to sino usrelations known as the trump banned immigration digital currency project if it is controlled properly it will not be suspended the demand for bitcoin crypto will increase in the case of transactions.

jaysabi

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Quote from: slapper on November 03, 2020, 02:33:22 PM

I believe that most exchanges will choose to move out of this region and place their headquarter in places where laws are less strict. The mandate is essential if we want to integrate bitcoin and other cryptos into our daily life. But If it is an austere regulation, it will force people to stay away from these digital assets. IMO, these rules are not likely innovations at all.

Fighting regulation is a losing proposition. Those trying to avoid regulation are on the wrong side, they just haven't realized it yet. Exchanges will go where the customers are, and leaving a jurisdiction doesn't exempt you from operating under the laws of that jurisdiction when you serve those customers. And customers will more and more demand operators to be regulated.

CASTIEL05

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Quote from: crwth on November 04, 2020, 08:54:16 AM

Most of the people there are probably using Cryptocurrencies to avoid taxes. Knowing that they have something against the government there, I remember an article in which they use it for funding rallies and make even more noise to stop the government. They are probably working on now to eradicate those types of sources and regulate everything.

Anybody from Hong Kong that resides there, and how is it going with the crypto life there?

This is one of the primary reasons why government declares a ban for cryptocurrency. People can evade paying taxes because of cryptocurrency since it is not yet regulated and cannot regulate by government. Tax is good in economy because it boost up the development when it comes to construction of building, roads and other infrastructures. It is not good when officials corrupted the taxes of the people. Hong Kong banned cryptocurrency because the government wants to manipulate the people out there. That is why there are many rallies happening in Hong Kong, people tend to resist in their government.

AndySt

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Quote from: Fortify on November 04, 2020, 04:42:14 PM

I think pretty much every country around the world will introduce these sort of laws eventually - except the the current (and new?) tax havens of course who will offer this sort of shielding as protection for their clients. China in particular does not want any funds outside of the control of the CCP and it was inevitable that they would want to track where money is moving. As Hong Kong has all prior freedoms stripped away, bit by bit, it will eventually just end up as yet another Chinese city - instead of the pioneer booming financial hub it once was.

Hong Kong served as a financial gateway to mainland China at one time before its reunification with China. During this time, mainland China has already grown its own financial centers such as Shanghai and Hong Kong is no longer so important for the Chinese economy. Moreover, the United States, together with the countries that joined it, by imposing its sanctions against Hong Kong, only deepen this process and the speed of the process. Paradoxically, the United States, while verbally protecting democracy in Hong Kong with its sanctions, is acting in the interests of China, reducing the importance of Hong Kong as a financial center, while increasing the role of internal Chinese financial centers.

exstasie

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on November 03, 2020, 10:32:24 PM

Quote from: slapper on November 03, 2020, 02:33:22 PM

I believe that most exchanges will choose to move out of this region and place their headquarter in places where laws are less strict.

Yeah, I hear the regulatory bodies in Antarctica and on the International Space Station are pretty lax, so perhaps there will come a day where either of those places host the crypto exchanges that don't want to have to bend over and spread 'em for their current government.

It wouldn't matter to the US government. They've always maintained the position that if you serve US customers, you're doing business in the US and therefore need to conform to US law. With the case against Bitmex moving forward, they are now taking things a step further, by demanding that exchanges implement mandatory KYC to ensure US customers aren't slipping by through VPN.

Uncle Sam to the rescue! Roll Eyes

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on November 03, 2020, 10:32:24 PM

This news isn't really surprising, and I don't even know how significant it is.

It's not clear. A lot of exchanges operate from Hong Kong but maintain their entity registrations and/or licenses elsewhere. I assume this will push some of them to move their operations offshore.

Fortify

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I think pretty much every country around the world will introduce these sort of laws eventually - except the the current (and new?) tax havens of course who will offer this sort of shielding as protection for their clients. China in particular does not want any funds outside of the control of the CCP and it was inevitable that they would want to track where money is moving. As Hong Kong has all prior freedoms stripped away, bit by bit, it will eventually just end up as yet another Chinese city - instead of the pioneer booming financial hub it once was.

tbterryboy

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Wouldn't expect this from Hong Kong because usually they are one of the most elite tech places in the world while not having that much influence from China like they used to, they are still basically controlled by CCP and China is in love with crypto with all their digital yuans and many more stuff that they are dealing with.

I am not really sure if China wants to have all the crypto to themselves but while considering Hong Kong had riots against China and lost, China still likes crypto so Hong Kong should too right?

Maybe it is something else and Hong Kong will just readjust to something totally different and have their own trading places where it would be local and that would be much better for them and would ban using other nations places to stop making them profit.

stompix

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Quote from: Symmetrick on November 03, 2020, 01:06:43 PM

Hong Kong decided to fight against unregulated crypto trading by introducing mandatory licensing.

I find it amusing that some articles still treat Hong Kong as an entity that has and can decide something on its own.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on November 03, 2020, 10:32:24 PM

Quote from: slapper on November 03, 2020, 02:33:22 PM

I believe that most exchanges will choose to move out of this region and place their headquarter in places where laws are less strict.

Yeah, I hear the regulatory bodies in Antarctica and on the International Space Station are pretty lax, so perhaps there will come a day where either of those places host the crypto exchanges that don't want to have to bend over and spread 'em for their current government.

Or, you could move to Malta, but not ask for a license. Binance knows how to do it.
I think this will be the final nail in the coffin for a lot of them, they have to either flee and hope they can keep their business alive somewhere else or simply shut down. No surprise, China is not going to wait a hundred years for the sake of the "one country two systems" promises, they will slowly make sure everything falls piece by piece under their control. I'm sure they look at it as an exercise of imposing new rules in a totally different system with a hostile population, they have some future plans for other regions most likely.

Quote

The operators must make sure there are no retail investors trading on their platforms, which should only be available to professional investors who have over HK$8 million (US$1.03 million) in assets, according to Clara Chiu, director of licensing and head of the fintech unit of the SF

The SFC will also require the operators to ensure customers’ assets are safe, and put in place measures to prevent market manipulation and money-laundering activities, Chiu said at the same event.

...and next time half of those assets must be in the custody of the CCP at all times.

Oh yeah, all this has centralization and control written three times with 10-foot bloody letters on it.

Ryker1

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Well, at some point this shows Hong Kong actions can still be considered as an advantage for it will help bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies away from any felonious act by a culprit and providing license means legalization which gives me an idea of acceptance of cryptocurrencies in Hong Kong market and that is favorable to bitcoin. However, -- on the other hand, if they will continue to ban retail investments then it will only trigger the people to do it secretly or through underground activities which might be caused more serious problems for the Hong Kong government afterward.

NeilLostBitCoin

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this will reduce fraudulent act of people, but it will also affects the current price of bitcoin and other altcoin, but it will not have a huge impact but slightly changes, since the lost number of people uses crypto is in Asia. but since we already know that China has already a plan having their own coin digital yuan, maybe that is one of the reason, but I cannot say that digital yuan will stop other altcoin to be purchased in hk.

samcrypto

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Quote from: crwth on November 04, 2020, 08:54:16 AM

Most of the people there are probably using Cryptocurrencies to avoid taxes. Knowing that they have something against the government there, I remember an article in which they use it for funding rallies and make even more noise to stop the government. They are probably working on now to eradicate those types of sources and regulate everything.

Anybody from Hong Kong that resides there, and how is it going with the crypto life there?

I also heard this rumor where cryptocurrency are being used to support those anti-government and make more rallies so yeah this can be one of the reason why they are making pressure to the crypto exchanges. Beside, they are under control of China so maybe the Chinese government wants to introduce their digital currency to HongKong as well. If those exchanges can’t follow the new regulations then its sad for Hongkongers to lose another freedom.

crwth

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Most of the people there are probably using Cryptocurrencies to avoid taxes. Knowing that they have something against the government there, I remember an article in which they use it for funding rallies and make even more noise to stop the government. They are probably working on now to eradicate those types of sources and regulate everything.

Anybody from Hong Kong that resides there, and how is it going with the crypto life there?

goaldigger

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: slapper on November 03, 2020, 02:33:22 PM

I believe that most exchanges will choose to move out of this region and place their headquarter in places where laws are less strict.

But it still won't save them from Hong Kong's crypto market regulation, because regulation will also affect third-party platforms that provide services to local investors. Someone will generally leave the Hong Kong market without further services.

Either they comply or leave the HongKong market, this is the only option for them. Those who want to make real business with them just simply follow the law so technically cryptocurrency is not banned at all, HongKong government just want to regulate it to minimize illegal transactions. This country is almost digital now, its also good for them to have options like this and cryptocurrency can be a big help as well.

teosanru

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I think this is the way how things are going to go forward. I think many countries could take idea from this system. Because obviously no matter how much we talk about P2P trust the retail investor always gets scammed so I think it's better this way than having a complete ban. Moreover it would be interesting to see the take of China on this and their one China policy.

But yes the concern legit too it destroys the very prime feature of cryptocurrencies. It would make cryptocurrencies markets more like forex market just a handful of exchange in each country with all shady ones going down. Won't be surprised if they start intervening in the selection of Board of directors and management too.

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on November 03, 2020, 10:32:24 PM

Ugh. This news isn't really surprising, and I don't even know how significant it is. This has been the trend as far as regulating crypto goes for some time now. That statement by the Hong Kong government was typical bureaucratic doublespeak, and those always make my skin crawl no matter who it is that's making it.

Actually this seems to be pretty unique, I don't remember another cases of retail investors getting banned from trading crypto. It's not very significant news, because Hong Kong isn't a host to a large amout of crypto volume and adoption, but if it's actually China testing the waters before implementing similar laws on mainland, this could be pretty big. And locally it will have a huge impact, I doubt that majority of crypto investors are whales who hold $1 mil USD in assets, so exchanges will lose a huge share of their customers, maybe even forcing them to close, while people will have to resort to p2p trading, which is often risky.

so98nn

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Quote from: Symmetrick on November 03, 2020, 01:06:43 PM

Hong Kong decided to fight against unregulated crypto trading by introducing mandatory licensing.
Apparently, there is a fight against money laundering and shadow operations, so they want to make everything transparent, so that all exchanges in Hong Kong are licensed, as well as foreign exchanges that provide services to local investors.

Licensing of the exchanges would mean that they will have to get all the user details with KYC verification up-to date. That would in turn mean that users in the hong-kong wouldn't be able to make anonymous transactions.

I wonder what will happen if they make it more stringent and ask for the details of users to "to whom" they are sending the money outside the Hong-kong?

May be we will have to consider this as partial anonymous nature of transaction.

Quote from: Symmetrick on November 03, 2020, 01:06:43 PM

The recent history with BitMEX and OKex has served as a catalyst for global regulation. Now all exchanges will have to submit a corresponding application.
Restrictions for retail investors again, reminds me of the recent restrictions for retail investors in England. The trend towards bans and regulation continues.

Ahh, this is the only stuff that will be happening good enough if they regulate the whole exchanger way of transactions. Currently I suspect that people may not be liking the way regulations are getting imposed within Hong-Kong for the reason of identity exploration.

Money laundering is not new for any country. Considering the fact that not everyone is doing money laundering this decision is gonna hamper the normal traders who may wish to have small winning, savings for their retirement without paying taxes on it!

IDK, but that much freedom needs to be their for humans. Tongue

Lorence.xD

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It is a fair regulation personally, this reduces the chances of scammers and price skimmers from exploiting the unruly volatile prices of digital currencies. I may not like People's Republic of China, to be fair, their laws favor people more than anything. On the other hand, this could mean that registered platforms for trading digital currencies will raise their transaction fees because there are less if no unregulated competition, right?

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: slapper on November 03, 2020, 02:33:22 PM

I believe that most exchanges will choose to move out of this region and place their headquarter in places where laws are less strict.

Yeah, I hear the regulatory bodies in Antarctica and on the International Space Station are pretty lax, so perhaps there will come a day where either of those places host the crypto exchanges that don't want to have to bend over and spread 'em for their current government.

Ugh. This news isn't really surprising, and I don't even know how significant it is. This has been the trend as far as regulating crypto goes for some time now. That statement by the Hong Kong government was typical bureaucratic doublespeak, and those always make my skin crawl no matter who it is that's making it.

Darker45

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To a certain extent, this is the expected fate of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency and the businesses associated with them. This is the price Bitcoin has to pay for getting into the mainstream society and becoming legal. It simply cannot avoid getting regulated. After all, being regulated is more or less the same with being acknowledged, although it could also mean being controlled and taxed.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: slapper on November 03, 2020, 02:33:22 PM

I believe that most exchanges will choose to move out of this region and place their headquarter in places where laws are less strict.

But it still won't save them from Hong Kong's crypto market regulation, because regulation will also affect third-party platforms that provide services to local investors. Someone will generally leave the Hong Kong market without further services.

Well, let them learn something very precious from the BitMex fiasco. Moving to places where laws are less strict and licenses are as cheap as a coconut may not save them from legal responsibilities abroad. If these exchanges leave Hong Kong, they better make sure there is not a single Hong Kong citizen which uses their platform.

hugeblack

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Regulatory pressure to get more money, it appears that countries will accept digital platforms in exchange for imposing more taxes on them.
The current approach will allow many service providers to make more efforts, especially since most of them establish these companies by disregarding fraud and price manipulation.

ChiBitCTy

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Quote from: Symmetrick on November 03, 2020, 01:06:43 PM

Hong Kong decided to fight against unregulated crypto trading by introducing mandatory licensing.

Quote

The government planned to release a consultation paper on Tuesday afternoon to collect views on the proposed new rules, which aim to offer investors better protection by combating fraud and money laundering, said Christopher Hui Ching-yu, the Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury.

Apparently, there is a fight against money laundering and shadow operations, so they want to make everything transparent, so that all exchanges in Hong Kong are licensed, as well as foreign exchanges that provide services to local investors.

Source: https://www.scmp.com/business/banking-finance/article/3108240/hong-kong-plans-ban-retail-trading-digital-currencies-and

This is certainly not surprising to me, knowing China and how they operate. This is also why China has come out with that new centralized "cryptocurrency" where they can completely track how all the money is being spent. China is all about full control. Not saying this aspect is not the right thing to do, but they don't just care about the illegal activities.

slapper

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Hong Kong market seems to be tougher and tougher recently, especially when Law of the People's Republic of China on Safeguarding National Security in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region was passed. Not good news at all even though they say that they want everything to be transparent. More regulations and laws are created in order to force citizen and investors to comply which decrease significantly the existence of cryptocurrency.

I believe that most exchanges will choose to move out of this region and place their headquarter in places where laws are less strict. The mandate is essential if we want to integrate bitcoin and other cryptos into our daily life. But If it is an austere regulation, it will force people to stay away from these digital assets. IMO, these rules are not likely innovations at all.

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