Topic: ㅤ (Read 442 times)

Yup, what would you do if you would have a business?
Would you set a chain store in a town with a million people who earn 2$ a day or in a city with 10k earning 100$ a day?
Why should India and China have high priority? Just because there are millions with little to no money to spend?
That's the reason why Ferrari has 2 showrooms in India and 20 in Japan!


I haven't yet seen a bitcoin ATM that accepts credit or debit cards.
I don't know if there are any but if I were running those I would avoid it, it's pretty easy to make chargebacks with credit cards and there are a lot of stolen cc, you will get more headaches than business, one serious charge can erase your entire month gains if not worse.

This is a great topic, personally i would love to see more ATM's in my country or at least in my city (Mexico), because now we have only a low amount of them and there are no local companies creating them. So, i think this project should get on hands of Bitso (The mexican exchange). They are the ones who can create it by a legal way and who has the sources to do it.

As Bitcoin enthusiasts, knowing the progress of the increase in the number of Bitcoin ATMs is certainly very encouraging news.
Moreover, the increase is quite rapid, with 1 hour = 1 new Bitcoin ATM this is a very good achievement. And I really hope that in
my country there can also be Bitcoin ATMs, so I can try using a Bitcoin ATM. It doesn't matter I have to pay high fees, at least
I can get experience using a Bitcoin ATM.

At least in my country, the Bitcoin ATM fees are quite high. That's why I have never used them. Losing 5-10% of my money is too much for my taste. Much better to use an exchange which takes basis points off the transactions.

It is very interesting to see that bitcoin ATM are keep on growing as days passes by, I wonder if this data is coming from around the globe or it is coming from a certain country only as I notice that there is also an active bitcoin ATM in our country but I am not so sure if it is also increasing in number.

My bad, so this data are coming from 70 countries which is pretty decent numbers of country already. Let's just hope that this increase of adoption will continue so  we don't have to worry in cashing out our bitcoin in the future.

I recently saw they put a Bitcoin ATM at the post center nearby. Couldn't be more happier ^^ and I personally find it amazing that more and more BTC ATMs pop up even in tier 3 countries.

Wow those are some pretty good numbers for a bitcoin ATM. I am not sure how useful bitcoin ATMs are but if the number of ATMs are increasing it only means that the demand/usage for it is increasing.
Unfortunately there is not one bitcoin ATM in my country but I will surely try it when I come across one.
There are only 2 things that bothers me when I come across a bitcoin ATM and those are

Security - ATM scams happens in fiat currencies too. I won't want losing all my coins to an ATM fraud. Security is a must.
Anonymity - Non-KYC ATMs would be a better option since many crypto ATMs require us to open an account with KYC details and then use the ATM.

As the number of crypto ATMs are increasing everyday I am sure that the above concerns will be satisfied in future.

It's a good indication that Bitcoin adption is a work in progress, but honestly I have not used a Bitcoin ATM because it is not popular here in our country, but with the number of installed Bitcoin growing I will have a chance to use one in the future.

Atm bitcoin is not optimal, I still think Bitcoin ATM is still being tested and there are still many issues for users, transaction fees are too large, one of the obstacles.

Yep, BTC ATM business seems attractive at first, but when you put some numbers on the paper it is a bit more complicated.

Some time ago I was playing with the idea of buying one of those with few of my friends and installing it somewhere but after some napkin math we quickly changed our mind. Good machines with buy/sell options cost at least 10,000 USD, then you have to rent the space, register the business, pay the taxes etc and all this with not taking huge fees as you have to stay competitive with others in the business. It turns out that you need tens of thousands of dollars worth of transactions per month just to stay in black, let alone profit in order to get the investment back. Unless you own some good place where you can install it (some popular bar for example) you will have extremely tough time.


Well that sucks, that there is still someone near so it's not very anonymous , or at least not anonymous enough for some. The place I am using for last couple of years has 2 crypto ATMs in some small rented place ( one is for buying and selling few most popular altcoins like Dash, ETH, Monero and the other just for BTC) with only surveillance camera, so there is some sort of anonymity. They also don't ask for any kind of SMS verification as I've seen few of those that ask that and it sucks as you can be easily identified nowadays through your mobile number.

The only downside of all this is the fact that they take  5% fee, which is a lot imho, but I know that they don't make huge profit out of it considering the expenses.

These ATMs comes at a cost and with maintenance so it would make sense to target areas where people can actually use it and afford the rates. I'm sure you'd most likely think the same way if you had the capital to set up a bitcoin ATM.

Also, you have to look into how the Government treats bitcoin trading first. You gave India and China as examples but these two countries are known for having a hard stance on legality of BTC before. No businessman with a sane mind would risk investing into countries like that.

I haven't seen one myself so I'm curious if fiat is the only way to buy bitcoin? Is there no option to use cards?

ATM I was looking for have an internal cash security box and it can empty only few times a month (depends how many bills you receive).
Real problem arise here. You need to do by yourself or paying some one to empty each time security box. Moving amount like this is very dangerous and requires an insurance or an armed guard...

One thing to consider is the privacy of the installation itself, and the buy/sell process. I’ve got a BTC ATM not too far away, which it is located within a store. The ATM is seemingly small, and I figure that all the cash needs to go through the teller (*), which is fine for some people (as they will aid them in the process), but personally, I’d rather not have to let someone know what amounts I’d purchase, nor the frequency of my habits.

(*) Not Quite as I thought it was at first glance: I just checked, and the ATM, which is pretty small in size, does accept bank notes, although I there does not seem to be a Credit Card slot option. It is though physically very close to the teller, who'd be able to see whatever goes on there pretty much. It is part of the business, as the intent is to be a proximity solution and aid their customers as much as possible.

I have very interested to buy and install a couple of these machines around area where I am living.
But without a sustainable cash flow it's just an expensive machine with high cost of maintenance/high fees for end user.
Probably this is a market profitable only for big whale or company with tens of ATM in big cities.

The problem with this is that the distribution of these ATM's are concentrated on the first world countries and also areas with a low population density. China and India with a very high population density, should have been their highest priority, but they are focusing on areas with high income statistics.

A lot of the African countries and also other 3rd world countries have a lot of remittance transfers and also local fiat currency issues, so it would have been better to focus their attention on those markets.    (Give Money transmitters like WU and MoneyGram some competition... and even some Banks) 

Great,  bitcoin ATMs has been distributed and put up in so many places in different countries. But, in our country we only have less than 10 here . Since, I am  way far to those btc ATM machines I just buy and cash out in convenience store, yeah way convenient for me but haven't tried to use bitcoin ATM since it was created.
 
 Anyway, for those who wanted to find and look for the bitcoin ATM machines nearby theifd place, these is is a good site thst may be useful;
 - https://coinatmradar.com/

I don't really know that there's a lot of Bitcoin-ATM in the world, that's really great to know that the number of it was mostly doubled in just a year. Let's hope we can continue to increase and be fully accepted by the world.

@Ratimov

It would be interesting to see how many more ATMs have appeared grouped by country. Do you have any data for how many more ATMs were set up in each country, or at least continent, grouped by year? Something along the lines of a map with countries on it showing there number of ATMs there, one map for each year.

I am asking this because I suspect that most of these new ATMs were put in the United States. Personally I would like to see more ATMs appearing in other developed countries, then we could sidestep exchanges and KYC, even if the fees are big.

I found some information in this video but it only shows a handful of countries. Bitcoin ATMs Around the World by Country (2014-2020) | Inspiring Data


This video shows how before 2014 there were virtually no bitcoin ATMs in existence, there was a point in the beginning where Canada had more bitcoin ATMs than the US, and US bitcoin ATMs exploded in number during 2016 and 2018, maybe even 2020 too but this video ends at Feb 2020 so not enough information to see whether there was a boom there.

And only 259+ ATMs in all other countries not listed! What about places like South Korea and Hong Kong with large population density, businesses should make more ATMs in those countries.

nice statistics Ratimov.  This information shows how popular cryptocurrencies have become lately.  Especially after the 2020 Pandemic was declared, people became more interested in the cryptocurrency industry.  If you have permission, I would like to translate to our local department.  These statistics will be useful information for users who do not spend time in the global forum.

I mean, I guess ATMs are more convenient when you need bitcoin while you're already out and about. But in general though? Using your local exchange's app is FAR more convenient. Well, unless you only have physical cash I guess.

AFAIK Bitcoin ATMs required the most highest fee among all exchanges around 7-10% [1] [2] while average local exchange only took 1-3% fee. Bitcoin ATMs aren't good option if you want use it regularly because the fee is insane.

---

[1] https://coinatmradar.com/charts/buy-fees/
[2] https://coinatmradar.com/charts/sell-fees/

Fees are more likely to be considered in this matter. Fees are higher because ATMs are meant to give "convenience" to the users but I'd probably still go for crypto exchanges. If in the future there will be more Bitcoin ATMs, there will still be people who won't especially those who are not into KYC process, and people in areas wherein cryptos are not yet widely accepted as means of payment. Unless they would make developments aiding the problems people are concerned of.

Not yet, but I would love to try it if the fee of using this Bitcoin ATM is reasonable or if the fee is cheaper compared to the local exchanger in our country.

In our city, there's no Bitcoin ATM yet but hoping to have one in the future. Some people would be curious/interested in bitcoin if they see these Bitcoin ATM Machines.

That's impressive, but am yet to see the candid usage of this Bitcoin ATM machines becasue of their fees which look much bigger than the regular fees from exchanges. Also, most have compulsory KYC before make some purchase in their platform, which is against the ethics of Bitcoin as a technology, although, some have already given up their identities for penurts. We're yet to see one in Abuja FCT Nigeria.

In the same way that any exchange office operates, they profit on the purchase/sale price. For example, if the current price is $15k, on crypto ATM the purchase price can be 10% higher, while in the case of sales that price can be up to 10% lower. There is a very significant profit in that range, and I remember reading earlier that the ROI for an average crypto ATM is about 3 months if it is in a convenient location.

---

I personally have never used such a device because I have never found myself near one. Here we come to the fact stated by the OP that almost 90% of all crypto ATMs are located in the USA and Canada, which means that the rest of the world lags far behind. Whether this will change in favor of the rest of the world is hard to say, as some countries seem to have very strict laws when it comes to cryptocurrencies.

I’ve never used one & I don’t have the need to. Maybe when bitcoin moons I will sell small bits of my stash on a non KYC ATM to avoid declaring taxes but so far I’ve only ever bought & sold on exchanges. It’s obviously good for adoption that we are seeing more & more ATM’s installed though.

On my country there is one. I don't understand why someone should go cash out or buy bitcoins from there, though.

• Fees are higher than exchanges.
• You'll have to give phone number etc. (Full KYC, no anonymity)
• Exchanges are closer to you than the ATM.   

If you use bitcoin properly, you'll need nothing physical.

I think the fees in bitcoin ATM is much higher than in crypto exchanges. I'm a little excited. I also want to try to use that but there is no Bitcoin ATM machine nearby in my area. But I believe time will come, Bitcoin ATM machine will scatter in different areas in different countries for more accessible and hassle free and fast bitcoin transaction.

This is an amazing figure. This could only mean interest over Bitcoin. I am with the assumption that these ATM operators do not just install these machines at their specific locations without even the roughest feasibility study that says there is a potential market which could be tapped for their business. There must be good reasons for this rising number notwithstanding the horrible fees usually attributed to Bitcoin ATMs.

Nope. Haven't tried using one, and up to today I'm still quite baffled on how Bitcoin ATMs manage to be profitable business(assumingly) knowing how big the fees are. Bitcoin ATM businesses being profitable(and not shutting down), means that they actually have enough customers to keep the ATMs afloat. Idk, I'd think that people would use famous exchanges instead for obvious reasons.

This is not unique to ATM services. Bitcoin ATMs function as a regular centralized exchange where one can buy or sell Bitcoin directly using a debit/credit card or bank transfers. Such services offer liquidity for the Bitcoin market, as not everyone can or is willing to trade on decentralized exchanges or through OTC trades.
If combined with privacy practices, like use of non custodial wallets and coin mixing/joining services, it could be done right with little effect to anonymity or privacy.

I am yet to use one as it is not quite popular in my country.
If I'm to use one in the future, I'll likely trade below the KYC limit as some ATMs allow one to buy or sell cryptocurrencies below certain amounts without needing to register on their platform and input personal details.

Yep; there's one really close to my house, and of fcourse, I had to try whether it worked or not!

What's actually funny about this specific ATM is that it's owned by shitcoins.club and it's not really the fanciest and trust inspiring name a company could have...
Apart from bitcoin, they also sell ETH; BCH, DASH and I'm not sure whether there was some other "stablished" altcoin they did sell.

I mean sell, but they do also buy (altough I haven't tried that one yet). What I find odd about the selling feature, is that the current limit is close to 12.000€; and the ATM is in the middle of a shopping mall; so I can't actually imagine someone withdrawing 12k in bills from a mall....

Some pics I took back in the day I did the test....

Also, they have a rather high comission, but I guess that's what it's to be expected when they offer one of the least KYC friendly service I've ever seen.

Not yet, there's nothing here in my place, but I would like to experience if there is, even just once regardless the amount and the fees. But expect fees is so damn high.

Anyway, it's a great progress for a 1 new atm an hour.

ㅤ