Topic: ㅤ (Read 393 times)

Reporting should in no way be tied to the relevance of posting. Of course, there are such rules, but they concern very ancient posts, but 2018 is not such an antiquity. Why not clean up what was overlooked earlier? And I'm not the kind of reporter who crawls only on old topics. If I decide to report something, then I take a whole section and start to explore all the topics in order, from the most recent to 2018-2017.

This attitude to old posts is not clear to me, so this garbage accumulates and accumulates, accumulates and accumulates, endlessly. After all, no one forbids putting it in order, especially since I do not force anyone to do this and waste their time. I'll spend mine, don't worry about me, just explain to me clearly and distinctly what is a low quality post and what is not. Perhaps I am too ideological with a touch of unhealthy perfectionism, so for most people my thoughts and intentions will seem delusional and strange, but I don’t see any harm in this either. Moderators are working, the number of garbage posts is decreasing. Everyone is happy.

You know, when a person has been engaged in some specific activity on the forum for many years and even achieves some results, when it begins to seem to him that he begins to understand a little about the rules of the forum, and they give him a big slap on the back of the head with the words: fuck, you don’t understand. One moderator came and said, it turns out that edited posts should not be touched, since this may be a sign of hiding some traces, and you touched them, touched them many times, tens of thousands of times. This information breaks my fucking brain. How is that? Why did I only find out about this now, after 4 years and 140,000 reports? It is very difficult for me to understand such things, you can call me stupid.

Oh, this is such a contrived issue bordering on paranoia that I don't even want to seriously discuss it. Under such a sauce, you can generally leave all the edited posts, of which there are tens of thousands on the forum now, and hope, what if this is all part of some kind of fraud or dark deeds that someone tried to hide there.


hilariousandco, do me a favor, please. The next time you see reports from me that indicate edited posts, be so kind as to just pass by. Thank you for your attention.

Yeah, I did see some of them were captured, hence why I said about scrapers potentially not having scraped all of them yet. I found a few posts which were sort of duplicates, and very low quality. So, I knew the type of posts most of them were, even though there was no edit history scraped on quite a lot of them. Also, not sure how they went amiss at the time of being posted, because that's a lot of threads being posted in a rather short period of time. However, it was also at one of the time's the Altcoin section was at its busiest, so that probably contributed. 2017-2018 was by far the biggest spam wave we've ever seen.

Yeah, the edited posts are very likely in the backups, and the admins probably have a fairly easy way of looking at the edited posts history. However, normal moderators don't. I'm not sure, if Global Moderators have more access to this sort of information, but I don't think they do. Maybe, it would be useful if all moderators could check this information though, it'd allow us to make more informed decisions.

Generally, I don't tend to rely too much on web scrapers, because there's potential for issues there. However, I don't personally see the significance of a lot of these threads, when they were likely all low quality to begin with. Although, this might be a conversation to be had behind the scenes, and potentially change our view points in order to have more cohesion. Like I said, I don't take complaints as being hostile, I just see it as a opportunity to evaluate, and look at other perspectives.

I think it varies, there's too my knowledge no guidance on not deleting of old posts, to me if it's spam, it's spam, and will be removed. However, I can see why other moderators might think different. Personally, I just want my sections to be as clean as possible, and a lot of what I'd consider significant, i.e having a decent amount of history are covered in "great project!" type posts, which I always remove.

Generally though, reports of recent posts are much more valuable, than older one's. I think theymos has said at one point, that not all reports are of the same quality. So, while some users may have 2k reports of older, less seen posts they're not the same quality as someone who has 1k reports of more frequently exposed posts. However, my point of view is they're both valuable. I revisit old threads from time to time, and I imagine a few users do with old Altcoin threads.

I think that you are dramatizing this situation. Don't get me wrong, I want to thank you for doing such an amazing job, because of you and some other people, I see less spam but you are way too angry over ruining of your statistics. After all, I don't think that stat matters that much, it's also stated that one accurate report is worth many inaccurate reports but I got your point, it's pitiful when you have 100K successful reports and one day half of your yesterday made reports are inaccurate. But I think hilariousandco made a good point:
I think we should have an option to report users like him, i.e. users that have 0 meaningful posts but we should focus on present time. Not much people are gonna actively read posts from 2018 but modern topics should really be cleared.

Does this forum save the history of edited posts? Or what we see in live is the only data that this forum holds? If the second one is true, then I think it carries 0 benefit to keep these posts on forum. It's all edited and we can't see what was written at past.
If there are still ways to track these persons in case something happens, then that's good but how can they be tracked if their data before posts were edited aren't saved?

To be frank, I don't see any benefit to report years old topics/ posts as others pointed out. However if a topic is still active and has many pages with useful information for new readers, it is logical to clean the early pages even if the posts are years old, but reporting dead topics/ posts, is just a waste of your time unless the goal is something other than a clean up, it could be perceived as if you are trying to bump up the report count, and since there is no competition for more report counts here, your method seems inane no matter your intentions.

But as I said earlier, you should always use a more friendly tone and wait at least a day or two, to receive more feedback, you know? Like behaving in a way to put the responsibility of defending your case on others, that way if you were right, the community would have acted accordingly to prove your point, but now it is either the mod's fault or your's. You left no middle ground for us to stand.

I like how Welsh came in like Natasha to calm the angry beast, as I read the replies I could see the hulk shrinking.
Your reaction is what I had few years ago when I thought admin reduced my smerits because I was an outsider (foreigner), I did the same as you which I later regret it.

For a few weeks I can see less spam and garbage, though I don't visit altcoin forums at all, maybe once in a week, but other sections look cleaner and honestly I enjoy it.

I would like to thank you for all the efforts you have put to this thankless task, believe me, we all appreciate it.
But talking like that with moderators/ who have been here longer than you is not appropriate especially coming from someone like you. You both deserve more than this. 

Honestly, after so many years I get pissed when I see reports are marked as bad or I see my posts deleted but after a few minutes I calm myself by reasoning with my inner hulk and then move on. One thing I know, mods do their best to stay neutral and unbiased, so you should always approach such cases more  leniently than you already have, like posting here to notify the admin and other mods and post a more consulting oriented topic rather than a "fuck this I'm out". We would like pretty much to have people like you around. I hope you continue the support as it is towards the community than admins/ mods.
In other words, you are contributing to the forum as a whole not just to a part of it.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the moderators have guidelines to carry out their work in the best possible way.

Sometimes the problem is when you enter the field of personal opinion, which turns out to be very different for each one. Logically this is not something wrong, it can only sometimes generate strangeness in some situations. But I believe it's never anything very relevant, and it's something that can be easily endured.

Thank you for your willingness to clarify, believe that if you have any questions, I will contact you. Thanks.

What is the link to see the results of our reports?

It looks like I have hundreds of "edited" posts archived, but some of the oldest posts were scraped in time. He started editing his posts around the same time I was building my old posts archive.
I checked a few of his posts, and he just copied the same thing many times. It should have been deleted anyway.

TryNinja got those old posts from my archive, and has some of them too.

I want to believe when you send a report, some boards have upto two moderators while some may have one or even have it that the moderator is not active on the forum, whenever we report to the moderators, we have done our own part in creating a good and sanitized bitcointalk community, the moderators handles these reports and check on them and acted as appropriate, we are left with nothing to question their actions on our accuracy or the reported thread we make because they have the decision to take full responsibility of the required and necessary action over them, i will advise you keep reporting and be less concerned about the outcome on each of the reports made, because you have done your own part.

i would be more active on reporting in the Altcoin section if i got the time for , but at the moment real life things comes first.
Even when i reporting and try to find this damn Fake Anns and Malware things i would be reporting other things also.
When i see something that should be reported i doing that in hope that it helps to get it cleaner.

Reporting posts from 2018 in dead threads that have already been locked really isn't necessary. Sometimes it seems like people are going out of their way to find stuff to report. Posts that have been edited shouldn't be removed anyway as someone can just edit their post and then report it to try make sure it's fully deleted and people can try cover their tracks this way. There probably should be some sort of statue of limitations on certain stuff because posts in dead threads from years ago really isn't an issue. If you want to report stuff there's thousands of posts made a day by shitposters so it's not like you'll ever run out of stuff to do.

I've made it a personal goal of mine to remove as much spam in the last few years within my sections that I can. I've finally been able to setup a workflow that helps moderation, and finally tackling some of the problematic issues in the Altcoin section, mainly my sections at the moment. I'm hoping to have done most of it by the end of the year, so everything is much more clean. I've probably removed over 10,000+ posts this year. I know there's a few other users reporting also, so I do think we'll eventually get on top of it, and only deal with current problems.

I'm hoping we can get the community back to reporting like they used too. I know the reasons why they've stopped, but hopefully that'll change in the future, and I know the Altcoin sections are some of the more criticized due to the amount of spam there. Hopefully, I can somewhat alleviate that opinion, and show there's a massive effort going on behind the scenes, which hopefully in return encourages users that their efforts are also not being wasted.

Right, but a lot of them didn't scrape them or wasn't around at the time. I can't remember when each scraping website was operational, but ninjastic.space as an example doesn't have the original post, and only scraped the edited version.

There's definitely criteria/guidelines that most moderators are aware of, but there is a element of discretion. theymos has made it quite clear in the past that he doesn't believe in set in stone rules, because they're easier to exploit or abuse, which I'd agree. Unfortunately, a trade off of that is sometimes we have situations like this where some moderators view things differently.

However, if anything this can encourage moderators to have a little talk about how to deal with these things in the future, and establish some sort of general view on it.

If you or anyone else needs some advise on reports, I'll try to help as much as possible so feel free to give me a message. I personally love to see more reporters actively reporting.

Probably he is trying to erase his traces of what he said and did here on the forum.
But, if you forgot or don't know, there are several sites that scrape the forum and keep all this history, even if the posts are edited.

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The problem is when moderation is based on the common sense of each moderator. And in turn, there are no criteria for reporting posts. Each one does it based on their common sense and their notion of what is of value or not.

I made a few reports, but still about 15% of the reports were not accepted. And I am aware that everything I reported was clearly spam or something that was not in the right place. How is this possible? I don't know...


I have to take the time to look at that list and understand what wasn't accepted... (where do I see that again?)

Yeah, I noticed. Although, unfortunately I couldn't find any archives which showed exactly what the threads were about, at least one's I checked. Since a lot of the scraping sites used today, weren't around or didn't scrape the content in time. I'm wondering how it went unnoticed for so long. I personally didn't see it at the time. Especially, considering the bumping system back then was like every other part of the forum if I remember correctly.

I mean, you don't create that many threads, that quickly, and not be considered a spammer. Generally, users make more ordinary posts, rather than threads since threads are generally more substantial when made. That's a huge amount of threads opened. Although, the curious part for me is why they decided to go back, throughout all their history, and edit every single post.

Anyway, I've tried to offer some explanations, but ultimately I wasn't the one that marked them bad, and dealt with them like you probably expected. Hopefully, this doesn't put you off of reporting too much though, since it would be a huge miss. I know you're actively reporting elsewhere on the forum also; so it would be a big loss to those sections too. I don't think I've seen you quite as active on the altcoin sections recently, until yesterday. Where I was like Oh, Ratimov is back .

It's one of the reasons I left the below reports unhandled, one of them because the other replies might be worth reviewing, but the other because it did have replies. Therefore, I thought giving you a soft bad would be the better approach. Obviously, other moderators always have the ability to decide to take action though.

Right, I believe these are the one's I was referring too. I do remember that the one thread had quite a lot of low quality replies, that might have needed deleting in themselves.  


Yeah, it's one of the downfalls to having no hard rules, and allowing moderator discretion. I believe the system is better than hard rules most of the time though.

It might be that the global moderator determined that the user did try deleting or covering up their posts in an attempt to hide something, and that every post could potentially be worth something if there was ever a scam accusation launched. Although, for me personally the threads which have no active accusations, and no replies, I remove.
Yeah, I see that. Although, there were a few threads in there that you reported which had posts from other users that I left unhandled. I don't know how many, I just remember one or two. I left those unhandled at the time. However, I do believe you might've continued reporting after I had gone offline so may have not seen all examples. Generally, for a few of those examples I'd delete them. Some of them are reserve posts, which could be fairly useful to have around...maybe? Especially, if they've been quoted in the thread, with the existing content, since upon clicking on that quote it'd take you to the now edited post. Although, things like:


Usually get deleted. In fact I reported several of these types of post in that exact thread recently, all deleted. Some sections do tend to vary in how they handle certain situations though. Myself, and Mprep should be fairly consistent on most things, since I know they dealt with a ton of my reports back in my reporting days, and I got a feel for how they take action on certain reports. Obviously, there will be difference of opinion from time to time. For example, I've reported empty threads in the past, and they were always removed.

I see no value in those posts, but the topics are locked. My guess: a Mod locked the topic based on your report, and marked all reports that were in locked topics as bad. But that's just a guess.

Even though the posts don't really have value, reporting them doesn't have much value either. Nobody reads those topics.

I had to go look at the user's profile. The user made 346 posts on bounty(altcoin) thread and deleted all posts. One may not know the motive for the user's action but it sure looks like spamming to me. Just as Upgrade00 said, you shouldn't feel discouraged about it as it might be human error, stay objective and keep doing good to the forum.

I am inclined to believe that some of the reports were bad since the author of the open topic was blmpnetwork itself. Since there were answers from other users on these topics, the moderators did not delete all the topics in their entirety.
But yes, I see that completely empty posts were also not deleted. Is it possible to assume that this is the fatigue of the moderators? I also sent a lot of reports yesterday, and they were all processed perfectly, but I can assume that the human factor, as Upgrade00 writes, still worked.

I processed a lot of the reports, and removed the threads, not just from this user though there was several others reported at the time, and not just this user. Probably handled 100-200 of the reports. However, I only removed those that did not have any replies at all, had not trust references directed towards the thread itself, i.e one's which basically offered no value whatsoever. I left some in the queue towards the end of the night, due to needing to attend to some real life things as well as further investigation on a few which had trust ratings which I would've looked at later if they were still in the queue.

Having said that, I wasn't the one to mark any of the reports bad. In fact, I left the one's which did have replies as a soft bad, by just leaving them unhandled, because I can see it from both points of view. The global moderator who handled these reports, must have thought they could've been significant to the history of the user, in some way I imagine.

Generally, we don't allow users to remove their own threads, and I guess this could potentially be abused, and whoever marked them bad could be thinking along those lines. However for me, since there was no replies or any trust references/flags left on the one's I handled, I thought they were insignificant enough to be removed. Maybe, whoever handled them had a different point of view to that, however it depends since the examples you've given all that activity from other users.  

Also, the user in question has clearly tried to hide his post history. Now, there's nothing stopping users from doing that I suppose, but they can't remove the threads themselves. I usually, weigh this up, and generally if the threads don't have any replies, and they've been inactive for years, and has no scam accusations or trust references left, I usually remove them.

These are the exact one's I was thinking about leaving as unhandled, as a soft bad. Since, technically many would agree they're spam, insignificant, but because other users have posted, there is some significance there. I imagine the moderator who handled these after me, thought along the same sort of line. Even though, an argument could be made that the posts that have replied themselves, are pretty bad quality in certain circumstances.

Here's some examples where keeping these around might be a good idea:
1. Users that want to research old projects that they had interest in
2. Scam report, multiple years after
3. Users who've asked substantial posts, when at a time the thread itself was substantial enough getting punished by the thread being removed. Since, technically most users wouldn't be bothered by this thread since they'll never stumble upon it, I think it feels a little harsh on the users losing posts because of it
4. Anything with replies from users generally isn't removed.

If you've always had perfect statistics of good reports then it means the system is working as it should. No system can be perfect or appease everyone at all times. The mods also do their best with what is available.

Human error. You factor it into anything that people act based on their discretion.
This error could be from the person handling the reports or the person making it.

It looks like a straight forward action to delete these posts. You didn't share the threads that were moved, but this should have been acted on.

Do not worry about your accuracy too much; one accurate report is worth many inaccurate reports.

Adequately handled reports are a motivation to report more, but we would try to focus on the action and not the result.
If in thousands of reports you've only had a handful of issues, doesn't seem like a reason to quite sending out reports.

Was it to keep some historical record of these topics?

Either way, these topics don't bring anything to the forum, they might as well be deleted.

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