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vapourminer

legendary

Activity: 4326

Merit: 3519

what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on March 27, 2023, 11:01:15 AM

]If I'm not mistaken, signature bans were always rare and were implemented as a way to be merciful to members who committed a serious infraction of the rules but who might not necessarily deserve a permaban--like with those members who've contributed significantly to the forum. I could be wrong about that, but I've only seen them handed out very occasionally.

a sig ban is punishment?

sure for those in campaigns maybe but (for example) i could get a sig ban and not even notice. i also have sigs turned off forum wide anyway.

so basically, sig bans as punishment only works on a particular subset of posters.

Coyster

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1224

'Life's but a walking shadow'!

Quote from: SatoPrincess on March 28, 2023, 08:39:53 AM

Lol I think plagiarism will be more difficult to find since AI written posts are becoming rampant on the forum. Since one cannot be 100% sure a post is written by AI, will the forum choose to moderate such cases or are we going to deal with it as we do go scams.

AI written posts usually makes little or no sense, because it is more often than not off-topic based on the ongoing discussion, and just sounds like a robot rambling (of course it's a robot anyway, lol). And yes the forum is going to moderate it because it is clearly plagiarism, the only downside is that it is difficult to detect/be sure, so it might take the moderators a longer time to ban/nuke users who use AI chatbot.

Findingnemo

hero member

Activity: 2310

Merit: 757

Bitcoin = Financial freedom

Quote from: SatoPrincess on March 28, 2023, 08:39:53 AM

Lol I think plagiarism will be more difficult to find since AI written posts are becoming rampant on the forum. Since one cannot be 100% sure a post is written by AI, will the forum choose to moderate such cases or are we going to deal with it as we do go scams.

As of now the AI detection tools are not 100% accurate if the violaters used to spin the AI written text before posting it on bitcointalk but eventually they can't survive forever with such technique here because sudden changes in posting behaviour can itself be a warning so they will be under the radar of someone like Ratimov just for example though. Cheesy

DT members can't do anything about this AI tool abusers but with the community help if we got suspicious about someone's posting style then they should be watched and reported if they found to be using AI.

I think it's time to have a thread to report AI users and other forum members can investigate and come up with a result.

Ndabagi01

sr. member

Activity: 560

Merit: 287

Quote from: Symmetrick on March 27, 2023, 06:04:15 AM

Interestingly, at the present time, some other methods of restricting functions to users are being practiced on the forum due to some violations of the rules? Earlier, I remember, in addition to the ban itself, there were also signature bans for various periods. Is there anything now? For a long time, I have not seen a single case of someone being blocked signature. Is this method no longer practiced here? The forum has become more loyal to users, such punishments have disappeared, even bans for plagiarism have become less common.

The reason for this could be that old users or users found guilty and convicted of such misconducts in the forum have realized and learned from their mistake. To an educated person, which we are most in this forum makes it possible to abide by regulations in the forum and listen to corrections that a person have been punished for before. News like this are encouraging and it makes the forum a better place to interact and free from spam.

Quote

Although the very idea to punish with a permanent ban for plagiarism was initially a failure. And the consequences of this idea came out much later, when the activity on the forum began to decline sharply.

Let’s just assume the punishment given to offenders worked and people have started to obey and be obedient in the forum.

SatoPrincess

hero member

Activity: 966

Merit: 701

Quote from: Rikafip on March 28, 2023, 03:15:55 AM

Signature ban makes way more sense than perma ban (keep in mind that some plagiarists still deserve perma ban) but since latter was more convenient and there was no lack of new members, admins didn't think twice about banning someone over a copied sentence. Situation changed now, forum activity has been decreasing so they took
different approach. Or they simply realized that the old way of dealing with that was too harsh.

I don’t think the system is perfect. A person found guilty of plagiarism can just wait till his punishment expires and then he can start wearing signature again. I would like to see how many would continue posting on the forum if they can’t wear signature. I think I see your point now, anyone who stays and keeps adding value to the community after six months of signature ban really deserves a second chance.

Quote from: Rikafip on March 28, 2023, 03:15:55 AM

Quote from: SatoPrincess on March 28, 2023, 03:00:16 AM

It could be that there are more good posters coming into the forum.

Lol no.

Lol I think plagiarism will be more difficult to find since AI written posts are becoming rampant on the forum. Since one cannot be 100% sure a post is written by AI, will the forum choose to moderate such cases or are we going to deal with it as we do go scams.

tranthidung

legendary

Activity: 2170

Merit: 3858

Farewell o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: Rikafip on March 28, 2023, 03:15:55 AM

Am I the only one who finds using word "loyal" in this context a bit weird? Shouldn't "lenient" or "forgiving" be more appropriate?

I saw it too. Cheesy

Maybe Ratimov want to use a hooking word to catch attention of forum admins, my guess and 2 sats.

Rikafip

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 5937

Am I the only one who finds using word "loyal" in this context a bit weird? Shouldn't "lenient" or "forgiving" be more appropriate?

Quote from: SatoPrincess on March 28, 2023, 03:00:16 AM

Signature ban? Isn’t that something that comes after a ban appeal? Since I have been a member of this forum I haven’t seen a case of signature ban.

There were in the past, but that's exactly the point of OP, why forum stopped using that measure.

Quote from: SatoPrincess on March 28, 2023, 03:00:16 AM

Plagiarism is usually committed by newbie and member accounts, they can’t wear signature avatar so I don’t think a signature ban would be very effective in this sense. That’s why the perma ban is more popular.

Signature ban makes way more sense than perma ban (keep in mind that some plagiarists still deserve perma ban) but since latter was more convenient and there was no lack of new members, admins didn't think twice about banning someone over a copied sentence. Situation changed now, forum activity has been decreasing so they took different approach. Or they simply realized that the old way of dealing with that was too harsh.

Quote from: SatoPrincess on March 28, 2023, 03:00:16 AM

It could be that there are more good posters coming into the forum.

Lol no.

noorman0

hero member

Activity: 1764

Merit: 694

[Nope]No hype delivers more than hope

Quote from: Symmetrick on March 27, 2023, 06:04:15 AM

-snip-
For a long time, I have not seen a single case of someone being blocked signature. Is this method no longer practiced here? The forum has become more loyal to users, such punishments have disappeared, even bans for plagiarism have become less common.

To be honest, I'm more curious, is this based on assumptions or are there actual statistics that show a decrease in the number of users who are banned from posting or wearing signatures? I think users will prefer to create a new account which is currently easier to rank up or completely surrender (get out of this place), rather than sending ban appeals where the handling time for just 1 case can be up to years.

SatoPrincess

hero member

Activity: 966

Merit: 701

Signature ban? Isn’t that something that comes after a ban appeal? Since I have been a member of this forum I haven’t seen a case of signature ban. Plagiarism is usually committed by newbie and member accounts, they can’t wear signature avatar so I don’t think a signature ban would be very effective in this sense. That’s why the perma ban is more popular. IMO the moderators have not lowered the standard or become soft. It could be that there are more good posters coming into the forum.

Sandra_hakeem

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 1004

Goodnight, ohh Leo!!! 🦅

Things has happened overtime... sometimes, that's actually untrue, depending on what we're considering here... The fact that these rules have been underrated isn't provably true because I've been observing -- atleast for sometime now -- the reporting threads for plagiarism and scam accusations, except you ain't really active in these boards, you'll know the Same too -- that it's usually filled up with different reports.,
...so I'm thinking maybe, it's a deterioration in self-pressure? Or how infrequently these things happen now ( which might not be the very fact that cases ain't reported, might actually be that peeps are beginning to get the understanding over people's past mistakes, or Thiers too)..

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

Adbitco

hero member

Activity: 1400

Merit: 650

Always Act Smart and Play Safe With Your Funds

From my little knowledge I don't think those rules are being disabled rather users have learnt to straighten up in reading, learning and working diligently to abide with all the forum rules and regulations. Newcomers also asked of their do's and don't if they follows up properly no one will be penalized and for that it doesn't mean moderators aren't active working. As a matter of fact the forum is even more strict about their rules and regulations.

Aanuoluwatofunmi

sr. member

Activity: 532

Merit: 390

Quote from: Symmetrick on March 27, 2023, 06:04:15 AM

For a long time, I have not seen a single case of someone being blocked signature. Is this method no longer practiced here?

I believed not that the forum no longer take effective measures on abusers found under such category, but members were getting wiser the more and the new once coming onboard have interest in learning about the forum first before making a mistake that will cost them a ban of any kind since they were aware that this forum is well moderated unlike other platforms.

Quote from: Symmetrick on March 27, 2023, 06:04:15 AM

The forum has become more loyal to users, such punishments have disappeared, even bans for plagiarism have become less common.

I learnt that the rate this forum user's abuse the platform has reduced unlike before where campaign cheaters with multiple accounts on same campaign and other attrosities being commonly found, scam has reduced, spam and troll as well and this is because people were getting more wiser each day unlike before.

The Sceptical Chymist

legendary

Activity: 3332

Merit: 6809

Cashback 15%

Quote from: ?? on ??

Thank you, although they exist, but they seem to have ceased to apply, since 2021 I have not seen a single user who has a signature ban.

If I'm not mistaken, signature bans were always rare and were implemented as a way to be merciful to members who committed a serious infraction of the rules but who might not necessarily deserve a permaban--like with those members who've contributed significantly to the forum. I could be wrong about that, but I've only seen them handed out very occasionally.

As for permabans, there do seem to be far fewer of them in the past year or two, and I remember commenting on that a while back. As for the reason, I could only speculate. The forum as a whole has been much cleaner since 2020 or so (or at least since the start of the merit system), so maybe there just haven't been as many cases of plagiarism or members hunting plagiarists down. Who knows?

tranthidung

legendary

Activity: 2170

Merit: 3858

Farewell o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: Upgrade00 on March 27, 2023, 06:51:13 AM

You mean many users were banned for plagiarism and did not choose to appeal the process?

Even they make their appeals, chance to get a second chance in the past, circa 2018 or 2019, is very slim. Let's see.

[BAN APPEAL]UPDATE: Total table + Ban status (Need feedback from Global mods)

Quote from: examplens on March 27, 2023, 09:36:57 AM

if someone is banned and has only one plagiarized post, it's probably because he was banned very early and hasn't had time to leave enough spam yet.

It can be true for most cases but we should not think all cases are the same. Some cases are different than the majority and because a permanent ban is a serious punishment, it will be handled case-by-case.

Quote from: theymos on February 24, 2019, 08:06:19 AM

Everything is case-by-case.

Quote from: theymos on February 24, 2019, 11:57:17 AM

There's been no policy change. redsn0w wasn't permanently banned due to several factors which made me think that permabanning him would be a net negative for the forum. Nobody is banned strictly because of "the rules"; it's always handled case-by-case, but almost always, plagiarists deserve to be permabanned.

If you think that a ban should be ended, make your case in a new topic from a "good for the forum as a whole" perspective.

examplens

legendary

Activity: 3248

Merit: 3098

Quote from: ?? on ??

How did you decide that plagiarist = spammer? And where did you get the direct correlation between plagiarism and the amount of spam? I know a huge number of users who were banned for 1 plagiarized post, but they were never spammers.

if you try to answer what is the exact reason for writing plagiarized posts, you will probably come to the conclusion that it is pure spam. an attempt to participate in the discussion through "meaningful" posts in order to reach activity, while not being interested in the purpose and result of the discussion, can certainly be interpreted as a form of spam.
Building the forum profile through bounty posts turned out to be a weak solution if we look at the need to earn merits, so posting a few lines of text is always a better solution. If you are not really interested in discussion, copy/paste is always the fastest and simplest solution.

if someone is banned and has only one plagiarized post, it's probably because he was banned very early and hasn't had time to leave enough spam yet.

speedy963

sr. member

Activity: 631

Merit: 253

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Upgrade00 on March 27, 2023, 07:22:47 AM

Plagiarism is frowned upon in general and not just on the forum. In academic work, scholarly articles and any writing platform.
Copying and pasting someone else's work with not reference whatsoever to the author is unethical and ignorance of any isolated rule does not excuse it.
I am one who advocates for the newbie welcome message to be implemented to hell new users familiarize with the rules and how the forum works, but you don't need to be informed not to plagiarize others content.

I perfectly understand that this is not only condemned on the forum, just like spam, shilling, trolling, etc. Only the essence is different. The bottom line is that a permanent ban for plagiarism should not be such a strong punitive measure, especially for beginners and those who have done it just 1 time. A welcome post is good, just like the implementation of warnings for such violations.

Quote from: Upgrade00 on March 27, 2023, 07:22:47 AM

How did you reach that conclusion?

I myself have seen many such cases.

I've noticed a lot since I first landed here that there will always be people who are too lazy to read the rules and would just immediately post what they have on mind such as one liner posts and also copy pasted from god knows who is the source without giving proper credits. I'm sure without strict rules this forum would be flooded by millions of accounts created with such freedom to do whatever they want to do. I also symphatize with the thought that there should be fair and right judgement whether someone would receive heavy punishment depending on how big their mistake is.

After taking a break in a short period of time i've come to realized that way back years ago due to politics some high profiled members are given a chance to explain why they did such things while those who didn't have enough backers are hanging on the hopes that they wouldn't be banned. Lucky if only they'd receive a red tag but worse would be banned immediately. I've seen similar cases way back.

Upgrade00

legendary

Activity: 2030

Merit: 2173

Professional Community manager

Quote from: ?? on ??

The logical reason is the banal ignorance of the rules, this was enough to get into the millstones of the ban.

Plagiarism is frowned upon in general and not just on the forum. In academic work, scholarly articles and any writing platform.
Copying and pasting someone else's work with no reference whatsoever to the author is unethical and ignorance of any isolated rule does not excuse it.
I am one who advocates for the newbie welcome message to be implemented to help new users familiarize with the rules and how the forum works, but you don't need to be informed not to plagiarize others content, only that it carries a heavy punishment.

Quote from: Upgrade00 on March 27, 2023, 06:51:13 AM

Most banned just the same for 1 post, that was enough. In some cases, for 1 line. If the warning system worked here, it would greatly reduce the wave of bans and people would understand their mistake, but at the same time they would continue to use the forum.

How did you reach that conclusion? If one plagiarized post is discovered most would not bother to keep going through the post history.

Quote from: ?? on ??

The absurdity of this forum is that here you can endlessly lie, troll, cheat, organize scams and no one will do anything to you, will not restrict access, but if you copy someone else's text (even some of it) and you will be banned permanently.

That's opening a whole new can of worms.

Upgrade00

legendary

Activity: 2030

Merit: 2173

Professional Community manager

Quote from: ?? on ??

How did you decide that plagiarist = spammer? And where did you get the direct correlation between plagiarism and the amount of spam?

I said that I can't think of a logical reason for a well meaning forum member to plagiarize. In cases of a single slip up, it is considerable for them to be considered and not banned, but that also does not make up the bulk of the cases, imo.

Quote from: ?? on ??

...because many users left this forum due to accusations of plagiarism and the subsequent ban...

You mean many users were banned for plagiarism and did not choose to appeal the process?
I can't remember how frequent bans we're at that time and I can understand if some leniency and restraint is being applied now before kicking someone off if they have contributed to the forum, or did not do it with a malicious intent.
But for cases were they (constantly) stole others work and passed it off as theirs to earn from signatures, they deserve the ban.

Xal0lex

staff

Activity: 2436

Merit: 2347

This question can only be answered by global moderators and administrators. This is their prerogative. If I'm not mistaken, all the punishment options you listed are still in effect. By the way, there are also temporary bans, which no one canceled.

Upgrade00

legendary

Activity: 2030

Merit: 2173

Professional Community manager

Quote from: Symmetrick on March 27, 2023, 06:04:15 AM

Earlier, I remember, in addition to the ban itself, there were also signature bans for various periods. Is there anything now? For a long time, I have not seen a single case of someone being blocked signature.

Signature bans were handed out for peculiar cases and was never really that common. AFAIR, only a handful of members were given such punishments and the threads for the appeal would draw out for a long period, giving the impression that it was a common practice.

These days a permanent bans seems to suffice for most cases.

Quote from: Symmetrick on March 27, 2023, 06:04:15 AM

Although the very idea to punish with a permanent ban for plagiarism was initially a failure. And the consequences of this idea came out much later, when the activity on the forum began to decline sharply.

Firstly, I wouldn't say that bans caused a drop in activity, there are so many factors like Bitcoin price changes, introduction of ICOs, NFTs etc.
I can't think of a logical reason for a well meaning forum member to plagiarize, so they would not be missed if they are banned, and some of them still evade the ban nonetheless.

A drop in activity does not mean a failure of an idea. I would rather a less spam filled forum without lots of the activity we are getting now.

Symmetrick

hero member

Activity: 520

Merit: 11957

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