Topic: 离链块交易对比特币有害吗？ (Read 1339 times)

不是这样子的。

适合大型支付机构小额支付用。

对比特币有益，但是会减少比特币的需求。降低价格

看不懂，表示好深奥  这里可以发英文么

不明觉厉，风险好大的样子

危险很大，如果记录不进区块相当于没这笔交易

你以为那么简单就能造假么

那公司想怎么搞就怎么搞了，到时充进去多少BTC全被公司花光了，账面上看到的还是公司自己做出来的块链

应该是区链块的一个分支.并不合并到总的区链块.类似于局域网的概念.有些公司内部用局网收发邮件就可以了,不用发送到互联网上去

其它说得简单一点就是交易平台上的买卖。与以钱包服务公司为主的内部转帐。所有东西有是有利有弊的。

很高深的样子

恩，在线钱包内部的成员转账，这种没什么影响不影响的，反而可以减轻交易的压力吧？

楼主能否翻译好了再贴上去   看得我真心累

虽然看不懂，但是支持一下

说得很高深似的。离块链，就是不需要区块。这种交易只能发生在同一个在线钱包的用户之间，如blockchain.info、coinbase等的在线钱包。或者说同一个交易平台不同用户间的交易，可以做到毫秒级的交易成功，这些交易都不经过区块链，所以非常快，但如果在线钱包公司数据库发生混乱，则可能会说不清你有多少币了。

如果用户要将BTC提到自己的钱包，则一定必须经过区块链。所以，这并没有什么新意，离线（离开区块链）的交易，是在线钱包公司发展的必然选择。

某些在线钱包（如币付宝等）用户之间的交易是链下的，即时到帐。

看不懂，比特币的交易不都是记录在区块里面的嘛，怎么会出来个离链块

虽然看不懂，但是支持一下

on-chain off-chain自由选择吧，没有什么有害无害的。就像支付宝一样，如果钱都在支付宝里流通而很少在人们手中流通，大家会觉得对rmb有影响么?

危害很大。就相当于离线交易差不多，交易数据不同步 完全可以作为重复支付。

不懂技术，听不到说的是什么，但是好厉害的感觉，支持下。

太高深了，果断看不懂

支持一下，虽然看不懂，但是好像很高深的样子。

比特币被设计成一个分散和不信任支付网络 -通过提供块链和公开确认数字货币交易的能力来达到目的。

极具争议的是，由于比特币经济扩张，越来越多的交易正在通过离块链（off the block chain）进行。

这样的交易在私人数据库跟踪，而不是块链，并且不能被其他人跟踪。

这两个系统各有优点和缺点。那么，离块链或块链交易哪个更好？

合法的块链交易包括那些由于特殊原因必须公开显示的交易，比如方便较大的支付。

许多用户可能不介意较小的交易使用掉块链，但更大的交易可以使用比特币的总帐接收公众的验证。因此，区链是一种保险 – 证明了双方交易付款的发生。

一些以消费者为基础的比特币公司都集中在离块链交易，包括Coinbase，园网络财务和BitPay。

这些公司本身就是促进双方的日常支付，因此，他们决定通过保持最内部交易来保持最快的支付速度 – 也就是说，离开公共块链。

评论：有一些交易可能不需要公布，或者不需要所有人认可就可以不用公共区链块。

Are Off-Block Chain Transactions Bad For Bitcoin?

AdminMay 14th, 20140 Comments »



Bitcoin was designed to be a decentralized and trustless payment network – with the power to do this provided by the block chain and its ability to publicly confirm the digital currency’s digital transactions.

Rather contentiously, however, as the bitcoin economy expands, more and more transactions are being carried out off the block chain.

Such transactions are tracked on private databases instead of the block chain, and cannot be publicly tracked.

There are pros and cons to both systems. So, which are better? Off-block chain or on-block chain transactions?

Visible Payments
Legitimate use cases for on-block chain transactions include those that must be shown publicly for particular reasons, such as to facilitate larger payments.

Many users might not mind smaller transactions off the block chain, but bigger transactions can receive public verification with bitcoin’s general ledger. So, on-chain is insurance of sorts – proof that a payment exchange between parties did happen.

The majority of offline business in bitcoin is for small food transactions. Source: CoinDesk 2014 Q1 Report

Marcell Ortutay is the developer of Coinwall, which relays bitcoin microtransactions on the block chain for the purpose of paywalls for online content. He said that, in light of nefarious actors in the cryptocurrency space, on-block chain transactions are a better verifier of sorts:

“When you use a hosted wallet, you partly lose the digital currency aspect, since you no longer have bitcoins, just promises of bitcoins.”

Perhaps the most noteworthy example of a hosted wallet gone awry would be Mt. Gox. Despite all the warning signs of that exchange’s mismanagement, Ortutay points out people still had faith in the Tokyo-based company:

“As the Mt. Gox situation shows, people are happy to keep their bitcoins on the most untrustworthy hosted wallets out there.”

Need For Speed
A number of consumer-based bitcoin companies are focused on off-block chain transactions, including Coinbase, Circle Internet Financial and BitPay.

These companies are facilitators of everyday payments between parties and, as a result, they have decided to keep transaction speeds high by keeping most payments internal – that is, off the the public block chain.

Despite off-chain use, on-chain transactions appear to be trending upward. Source: Blockchain

Scott Robinson runs bitcoin initiatives at the Plug and Play startup accelerator, which has headquarters in Sunnyvale, California. He says this issue is a factious subject within the community:

“Off-chain transactions are a divisive concept, obviously. Defeating the purpose of the open ledger aspect to the protocol is a concern.”

Robinson says that at Plug and Play’s cafeteria there is a bitcoin-accepting point of sale (POS) system, and he has seen why companies like Coinbase want to run transactions through their own system, off-chain.

Simply, it’s faster to use Coinbase-to-Coinbase, for example, than relying on Coinbase-to-block chain. Plus, “issues arise with miner fees,” Robinson noted.

Transaction off the block chain do not incur the small amount of BTC that miners are paid for their services in verifying the ledger. Hence, transaction are a little more expensive on-chain.

Robinson believes the issues with transaction speeds on-chain need to be worked out, and suggests doing so with trial-by-fire:

“I would say I’m in the camp of putting as many transactions on the network as possible and working to solve the micro-transaction latency issue.”

Scaling Problems
There is another reason why companies use their own database systems to move bitcoin around: the potential scaling problems that could result as transactions on the bitcoin network increase.

Blocks are only being generated every 10 minutes, which makes confirmation a major issue.

The majority of businesses accepting bitcoin are in the US. Source: CoinDesk 2014 Q1 Report

That’s why, for larger transactions, bitcoin on-chain makes sense, but less so for smaller payments, which are more often regular and frequent.

The bitcoin network, as it is currently, just cannot support thousands of transactions per second like traditional payment systems. Therefore, there is a strong incentive for companies to go off-block chain instead.

Bitcoin cannot compete with other coins on block generation speed. Litecoin mines blocks every 2.5 minutes, and dogecoin completes a block roughly every 60 seconds.

There are some proposals that could help give bitcoin a speed boost, however.

Perhaps the most intriguing of these would involve a more trustless system by implementing payment channels in a hub-and-spoke design. This is one theoretical way to counter the problems with transaction and block chain size growth.

Catheryne Nicholson, co-founder of BlockCypher, a cloud-based block chain service provider, thinks that bitcoin’s infrastructure needs to be performance optimized.

BlockCypher, as a result, is building scalable solutions to help keep the system on-chain, she said, adding:

“There’s no reason for off-blockchain transactions to exist. It undermines the entire block chain.”

Lost Advantage
Jesse Powell, the CEO of cryptocurrency exchange Kraken, said that his company uses on-block chain transactions. “We operate under the presumption that, when you are sending money out, you’re withdrawing. It’s to your own wallet.”

The reasoning behind that is purely for regulatory reasons, he explained. Off-block chain movement of cyrptocurrency, in Kraken’s view, has compliance issues:

“Legally, [off-chain] would be different. It would be money transmission. Coinbase is doing money transmission. So we’re trying to avoid money transmission until we have licences.”

Ortutay, the on-chain micropayment entrepreneur, thinks that some bitcoin companies may have other, less desirable reasons to transact off-block chain:

“Exchanges use off-chain so they can run a fractional reserve. Certain (unnamed) exchanges/brokers do this because it’s hard to operate otherwise.”

Many in the bitcoin community realise that off-chain is quickly increasing in popularity. The problem, however, is that bitcoin stands to lose a portion of one of its key benefits – its decentralized nature.

Ortutay believes that that could, in the end, deliver a blow to bitcoin’s early adoption. Bitcoin as a payment mechanism may face a marketing problem when it appears to be doing the same thing its competitors are, he explained, saying:

“People will correctly question what is so amazing about bitcoin if it is doing the same thing that PayPal or Google Wallet does.”

Bitcoin chain image via Shutterstock

block chainBlockCypherCoinwallKrakenpaymentsplug and playtransactions

 May 14, 2014 at 11:00AM

Read more at http://bitcoinnewsbrief.com/blog/2014/05/14/are-off-block-chain-transactions-bad-for-bitcoin/#El6bKBEQ1mq1v380.99

本文固定链接: 三个硬币 | http://www.3-coin.com/2014-05-14/1669/