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smith88

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Quote from: Devin Chow on August 09, 2014, 02:24:35 PM

...

Law enforcement used to be an honorable profession. Today, it's about statistics, quotas and politics. Right and wrong isn't even a factor. Entrapment laws are intentionally skirted and called something else. These people should be ashamed of themselves.

Thank you for sharing. I think stories like these are important in building strength, integrity, and keeping each other informed. Good for you... glad you made that response to him; that was a phenomenal response.

waterpile

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Damn, quite a story there better be careful now

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 15, 2014, 09:13:48 AM

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 15, 2014, 06:29:09 AM

I bet you say that to every civilian who exercises their right against self-incrimination.

I think cops are fucking retards too usually, but when they're trying to set someone up for conspiracy they're smarter than you.

It takes no real effort or intelligence to set someone up for conspiracy when there is no real punitive consequence for doing so.

MrPiggles

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Decentralized Ascending Auctions on Blockchain

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 15, 2014, 06:29:09 AM

I bet you say that to every civilian who exercises their right against self-incrimination.

I think cops are fucking retards too usually, but when they're trying to set someone up for conspiracy they're smarter than you.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 15, 2014, 05:43:11 AM

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 15, 2014, 03:06:28 AM

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 15, 2014, 01:45:40 AM

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 15, 2014, 01:28:17 AM

As if government is absolutely constrained by laws. Jesus... /brickwall

You're right, they'd arrest you before you'd legally committed conspiracy, and then any prosecutor would simply throw it out right away whilst your lawyer laughed at the charges.

Police know conspiracy laws better than you do, they wouldn't blow their wad too soon.

There are effectively no real punitive consequences for judicial misconduct, malicious prosecution, and false arrest.

Go elsewhere to trick people ignorant of that fact into self-incrimination.

Oink.

You're a fuckin retard

I bet you say that to every civilian who exercises their right against self-incrimination.

MrPiggles

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Quote from: TheButterZone on August 15, 2014, 03:06:28 AM

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 15, 2014, 01:45:40 AM

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 15, 2014, 01:28:17 AM

As if government is absolutely constrained by laws. Jesus... /brickwall

You're right, they'd arrest you before you'd legally committed conspiracy, and then any prosecutor would simply throw it out right away whilst your lawyer laughed at the charges.

Police know conspiracy laws better than you do, they wouldn't blow their wad too soon.

There are effectively no real punitive consequences for judicial misconduct, malicious prosecution, and false arrest.

Go elsewhere to trick people ignorant of that fact into self-incrimination.

Oink.

You're a fuckin retard

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 15, 2014, 01:45:40 AM

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 15, 2014, 01:28:17 AM

As if government is absolutely constrained by laws. Jesus... /brickwall

You're right, they'd arrest you before you'd legally committed conspiracy, and then any prosecutor would simply throw it out right away whilst your lawyer laughed at the charges.

Police know conspiracy laws better than you do, they wouldn't blow their wad too soon.

There are effectively no real punitive consequences for judicial misconduct, malicious prosecution, and false arrest.

Go elsewhere to trick people ignorant of that fact into self-incrimination.

Oink.

MrPiggles

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Decentralized Ascending Auctions on Blockchain

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 15, 2014, 01:28:17 AM

As if government is absolutely constrained by laws. Jesus... /brickwall

You're right, they'd arrest you before you'd legally committed conspiracy, and then any prosecutor would simply throw it out right away whilst your lawyer laughed at the charges.

Police know conspiracy laws better than you do, they wouldn't blow their wad too soon.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

As if government is absolutely constrained by laws. Jesus... /brickwall

MrPiggles

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Decentralized Ascending Auctions on Blockchain

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 14, 2014, 03:13:18 PM

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 14, 2014, 04:14:48 AM

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 14, 2014, 01:01:46 AM

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 13, 2014, 10:54:59 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 13, 2014, 05:02:21 PM

Once you say "yeah I might know a guy" to the entrapping police officer, you've provided probable cause to arrest for conspiracy to commit murder and prima facie evidence for prosecution, despite your actual intent. Just about every conspiracy defendant claims "but I was just trying to be a good Samaritan!" and they fail.

The only things you should say to entrapping police should be: "I'll discuss it with my lawyers, {the name of the District Attorney} and {a well-known defense attorney}. We'll be in touch, bye."

No, if you said "I know a guy who might be interested" and then promptly called the police/FBI (a different LE agency than this guy worked for obviously) then you could not be prosecuted. You haven't done anything illegal under a conspiracy law because you haven't agreed to a specific act.

How the FUCK could you promptly call the police WHEN YOU ARE IMMEDIATELY PLACED IN HANDCUFFS!? Do you have a cellphone in your brain?

Never mind, from your first post I thought you knew what conspiracy laws meant.

Then you would have replied differently.

You clearly don't understand conspiracy laws. A vague "I might know a guy" is not conspiracy, you need to commit to a specific act. So you say you know a guy and take their phone number, the police are dancing with glee over the fact they're gonna set you up in a proper conspiracy and then you introduce them to an FBI agent and laugh your ass off at the ensuing mess.

You cannot be charged with conspiracy unless you commit to a SPECIFIC act.

Examples of times you can be charged with conspiracy
"I want you to kill MrPiggles"
"I need a hitman to kill MrPiggles"
"I want to import 10 kilos of cocaine on this flight like so.."

Not conspiracy
"I might know a guy can I have your phone number"
"I'd like to be a rich cocaine dealer"
"I wish that guy was dead"

Simple enough for you? Conspiracy laws aren't that complicated.

BitCoinPokerBro

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This guy could vary well have just been a sketchy yet very open drug dealer

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 14, 2014, 04:14:48 AM

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 14, 2014, 01:01:46 AM

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 13, 2014, 10:54:59 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 13, 2014, 05:02:21 PM

Once you say "yeah I might know a guy" to the entrapping police officer, you've provided probable cause to arrest for conspiracy to commit murder and prima facie evidence for prosecution, despite your actual intent. Just about every conspiracy defendant claims "but I was just trying to be a good Samaritan!" and they fail.

The only things you should say to entrapping police should be: "I'll discuss it with my lawyers, {the name of the District Attorney} and {a well-known defense attorney}. We'll be in touch, bye."

No, if you said "I know a guy who might be interested" and then promptly called the police/FBI (a different LE agency than this guy worked for obviously) then you could not be prosecuted. You haven't done anything illegal under a conspiracy law because you haven't agreed to a specific act.

How the FUCK could you promptly call the police WHEN YOU ARE IMMEDIATELY PLACED IN HANDCUFFS!? Do you have a cellphone in your brain?

Never mind, from your first post I thought you knew what conspiracy laws meant.

Then you would have replied differently.

MrPiggles

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Activity: 980

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Decentralized Ascending Auctions on Blockchain

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 14, 2014, 01:01:46 AM

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 13, 2014, 10:54:59 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 13, 2014, 05:02:21 PM

Once you say "yeah I might know a guy" to the entrapping police officer, you've provided probable cause to arrest for conspiracy to commit murder and prima facie evidence for prosecution, despite your actual intent. Just about every conspiracy defendant claims "but I was just trying to be a good Samaritan!" and they fail.

The only things you should say to entrapping police should be: "I'll discuss it with my lawyers, {the name of the District Attorney} and {a well-known defense attorney}. We'll be in touch, bye."

No, if you said "I know a guy who might be interested" and then promptly called the police/FBI (a different LE agency than this guy worked for obviously) then you could not be prosecuted. You haven't done anything illegal under a conspiracy law because you haven't agreed to a specific act.

How the FUCK could you promptly call the police WHEN YOU ARE IMMEDIATELY PLACED IN HANDCUFFS!? Do you have a cellphone in your brain?

Never mind, from your first post I thought you knew what conspiracy laws meant.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 13, 2014, 10:54:59 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 13, 2014, 05:02:21 PM

Once you say "yeah I might know a guy" to the entrapping police officer, you've provided probable cause to arrest for conspiracy to commit murder and prima facie evidence for prosecution, despite your actual intent. Just about every conspiracy defendant claims "but I was just trying to be a good Samaritan!" and they fail.

The only things you should say to entrapping police should be: "I'll discuss it with my lawyers, {the name of the District Attorney} and {a well-known defense attorney}. We'll be in touch, bye."

No, if you said "I know a guy who might be interested" and then promptly called the police/FBI (a different LE agency than this guy worked for obviously) then you could not be prosecuted. You haven't done anything illegal under a conspiracy law because you haven't agreed to a specific act.

How the FUCK could you promptly call the police WHEN YOU ARE IMMEDIATELY PLACED IN HANDCUFFS!? Do you have a cellphone in your brain?

MrPiggles

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Decentralized Ascending Auctions on Blockchain

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 13, 2014, 05:02:21 PM

Once you say "yeah I might know a guy" to the entrapping police officer, you've provided probable cause to arrest for conspiracy to commit murder and prima facie evidence for prosecution, despite your actual intent. Just about every conspiracy defendant claims "but I was just trying to be a good Samaritan!" and they fail.

The only things you should say to entrapping police should be: "I'll discuss it with my lawyers, {the name of the District Attorney} and {a well-known defense attorney}. We'll be in touch, bye."

No, if you said "I know a guy who might be interested" and then promptly called the police/FBI (a different LE agency than this guy worked for obviously) then you could not be prosecuted. You haven't done anything illegal under a conspiracy law because you haven't agreed to a specific act.

Fray

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Quote from: MrPiggles on August 13, 2014, 12:35:26 AM

You should have turned the tables on him and told him you know someone looking for a hitman.

Then when he says he can do that, call the cops for conspiracy to murder.

This would probably be the worse thing you could have said. The OP was likely dealing with some kind of law enforcement officer trying to get the OP to commit a crime. If the OP were to solicit a much more serious crime then he would likely be arrested instantly.

If the OP had gone though with the trade and the other person was a law enforcement officer then he would probably be fine if he did it just that once, but would be at much greater risk of arrest/charges if he did it multiple times without reporting what he said to anyone.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 13, 2014, 08:28:51 AM

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 13, 2014, 12:44:44 AM

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 13, 2014, 12:35:26 AM

You should have turned the tables on him and told him you know someone looking for a hitman.

Then when he says he can do that, call the cops for conspiracy to murder.

By saying that, you'd be part of the conspiracy.

Actually you wouldn't, saying you know someone isn't illegal. How do you think they set people up in those fake hitman stings?

The person who says "yeah I might know a guy" then rings the police doesn't get arrested.

Once you say "yeah I might know a guy" to the entrapping police officer, you've provided probable cause to arrest for conspiracy to commit murder and prima facie evidence for prosecution, despite your actual intent. Just about every conspiracy defendant claims "but I was just trying to be a good Samaritan!" and they fail.

The only things you should say to entrapping police should be: "I'll discuss it with my lawyers, {the name of the District Attorney} and {a well-known defense attorney}. We'll be in touch, bye."

MrPiggles

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Decentralized Ascending Auctions on Blockchain

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 13, 2014, 12:44:44 AM

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 13, 2014, 12:35:26 AM

You should have turned the tables on him and told him you know someone looking for a hitman.

Then when he says he can do that, call the cops for conspiracy to murder.

By saying that, you'd be part of the conspiracy.

Actually you wouldn't, saying you know someone isn't illegal. How do you think they set people up in those fake hitman stings?

The person who says "yeah I might know a guy" then rings the police doesn't get arrested.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: MrPiggles on August 13, 2014, 12:35:26 AM

You should have turned the tables on him and told him you know someone looking for a hitman.

Then when he says he can do that, call the cops for conspiracy to murder.

By saying that, you'd be part of the conspiracy.

forsakenpnut

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You sir is a smart dude and I thank you for letting us know about this!

MrPiggles

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Decentralized Ascending Auctions on Blockchain

You should have turned the tables on him and told him you know someone looking for a hitman.

Then when he says he can do that, call the cops for conspiracy to murder.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: herebittybittybitty on August 10, 2014, 07:55:01 PM

I do wish the OP had called the police on the "buyer" just for laughs. Ask to file a report, fake being all concerned etc. Get the feds involved to investigate for added yucks. Cheesy

I wouldn't ever do that.

I am not my brothers keeper.

Even *if* he was not LE, and actually *was* trying to sell me drugs...I still wouldn't tell on him.

My hatred for the tyranny of our draconian legal system trumps all.

Remember, the first offer was for contracted crimes of violence.

herebittybittybitty

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Even *if* he was not LE, and actually *was* trying to sell me drugs...I still wouldn't tell on him.

The fun in it was reporting the LE on itself.

Bitcoins101

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Quote from: herebittybittybitty on August 10, 2014, 07:55:01 PM

I do wish the OP had called the police on the "buyer" just for laughs. Ask to file a report, fake being all concerned etc. Get the feds involved to investigate for added yucks. Cheesy

I totally agree and this is exactly what I would do in that situation. However, it may be more trouble than it's worth. Creating enemies in law enforcement is never a good idea.

Asianconnect

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Asianconnect

This information was truly helpful specially to those who is new to bitcoin community. Thanks for the heads up

counter

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Time is on our side, yes it is!

Quote from: odolvlobo on August 10, 2014, 04:11:20 PM

There is a lot of paranoia in this thread. It isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. Face-to-face transactions are safe and easy. Online selling is risky because of chargebacks and fraud. Even cash bank deposits can be reversed.

Just stick to small amounts and stay away from people talking about criminal activity, and you have nothing to worry about.

I couldn't agree more, I'd treat the service like Craigslist. Come to think of it I've heard of many more horror stories of Craigslist meetups gone bad then I have of Bitcoin exchanges going wrong. It seems more common for the cops to be the reason for worry when exchanging coin in person then criminals..

Chris_Sabian

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Quote from: hodap on August 10, 2014, 06:53:04 PM

Quote from: Chris_Sabian on August 10, 2014, 06:40:40 PM

The way that OP handled the situation is prefect.

Once the talk about illegal stuff came up, end the transaction and walk away.

OP is correct about money laundering and law enforcement.

If he limit his transaction to 500-1000 per sale. The law enforcement may not even bother him.

Another valid point. This amount will probably vary by state as each has their own money laws (or soon to be laws)

Carnage

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I am glad this is illegal in my country

herebittybittybitty

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I do wish the OP had called the police on the "buyer" just for laughs. Ask to file a report, fake being all concerned etc. Get the feds involved to investigate for added yucks. Cheesy

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Just a matter of time before LE ends up trying to entrap us, we attempt to make a citizen's arrest, the undercover and/or their backup team executes us in "self-defense", and it's ruled "justified" by a complicit justice system.

Or better/worse yet, a law-abiding LEO ends up arresting the entrapping LEO from another agency, or gets shot trying.

hodap

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Quote from: Chris_Sabian on August 10, 2014, 06:40:40 PM

The way that OP handled the situation is prefect.

Once the talk about illegal stuff came up, end the transaction and walk away.

OP is correct about money laundering and law enforcement.

If he limit his transaction to 500-1000 per sale. The law enforcement may not even bother him.

Chris_Sabian

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The way that OP handled the situation is prefect.

Once the talk about illegal stuff came up, end the transaction and walk away.

OP is correct about money laundering and law enforcement.

leopard2

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Quote from: dadugan on August 10, 2014, 02:03:51 PM

Quote from: herebittybittybitty on August 10, 2014, 02:01:17 PM

Quote

They are creating crime in order to prosecute it.

This is pretty standard these days.

This is called entrapment and used to be illegal in the old day.

Yes, but there are so many "men in black" now that there is not nearly enough real crime to keep them busy. To finance this apparatus, victimless crime and even crimeless crime is prosecuted. If that is not enough, cases are literally engineered by them. Many innocent people are put in jail just to keep their statistics in shape. Probably the same in other parts of the world. It is revolting.

www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/16/fbi-entrapment-fake-terror-plots

http://rt.com/usa/fbi-usa-terrorism-portland/

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fbi-has-a-success-rate-of-50-when-it-comes-to-stopping-domestic-terrorism-714589

ForgottenPassword

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Quote from: odolvlobo on August 10, 2014, 04:11:20 PM

There is a lot of paranoia in this thread. It isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. Face-to-face transactions are safe and easy. Online selling is risky because of chargebacks and fraud. Even cash bank deposits can be reversed.

Just stick to small amounts and stay away from people talking about criminal activity, and you have nothing to worry about.

This.

Just keep to small amounts and be professional and do everything as smooth and quickly as possible. Check out your buyer before meeting them (past feedback etc), check all the notes you receive, do the trades in a safe place, use the escrow service and if the buyer mentions anything illegal DO NOT trade with them ever again. Keep it strictly business. So long as you're not trading excessively large amounts you will be very safe doing this.

conspirosphere.tk

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Bitcoin is antisemitic

"You've got to be honest to succeed as an outlaw"

abercrombie

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Quote from: vabtc on August 10, 2014, 03:53:01 PM

Thanks for the post, I had something very similar happen. He had addresses on a piece of paper, not even QR codes and admitted they were not his. I felt uncomfortable about the whole thing and declined to sell the coins.

Once he admits it's not for him and on behalf of a 3rd party, you would be operating as a money transmitter without a license. They charged Charlie Shrem of Bitinstant for that crime.

odolvlobo

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There is a lot of paranoia in this thread. It isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. Face-to-face transactions are safe and easy. Online selling is risky because of chargebacks and fraud. Even cash bank deposits can be reversed.

Just stick to small amounts and stay away from people talking about criminal activity, and you have nothing to worry about.

vabtc

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Thanks for the post, I had something very similar happen. He had addresses on a piece of paper, not even QR codes and admitted they were not his. I felt uncomfortable about the whole thing and declined to sell the coins.

keithers

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This is the land of wolves now & you're not a wolf

Thanks for the story. It is a good cautionary narrative. People should take his advice just to save you the possible legal trouble/stress it will cause you.

colinistheman

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I wonder if you were being audio recorded while this deal was going down. I bet so.

Recorded audio of you selling btc to a person knowingly using it for illegal purposes would be the only way to have the evidence needed, right? (aside from any texts/emails showing known intent of the buyer)

the joint

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One simple fact to keep in mind: As far as I'm aware, it is *not* illegal for law enforcement to lie to you to coerce you or trick you into committing or confessing illegal activity. It is entirely up to you to know the laws in your area and to protect yourself accordingly.

ForgottenPassword

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Quote from: wasserman99 on August 10, 2014, 02:47:37 PM

That is not true. You need to follow AML regulations when selling BTC for cash. In a nutshell these include verifying the identity of the person you are dealing with and reporting any transaction over a certain threshold.

Since many/most traders are likely unaware of AML regulations, LE (undercover) will often say they are using the BTC illegally to give the trader a reason to look into the regulations and rules regarding AML.

Thats not what the Florida indictment states. AML is a completely different issue.

Charlie Shrem the owner of BitInstant a Bitcoin exchange that was (almost) fully compliant with AML was arrested for knowingly selling Bitcoins to someone who he knew sold them to people who used them for illegal activity and failing to report this:

http://time.com/1892/bitinstant-ceo-charlie-shrem-arrested-for-alleged-money-laundering/

If someone tells you that they are buying your Bitcoins to spend on cocaine, asking to see their ID won't cover you.

luckyluigi

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Thank you for posting this OP, really eye-opening. I don't even use localbitcoins, and probably won't in the future because of all the risks. This is just an icing on the cake. I wonder if this could get news coverage on some bitcoin news sites, seems like it would make a good piece.

wasserman99

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Quote from: ForgottenPassword on August 10, 2014, 02:33:11 PM

Quote from: herebittybittybitty on August 10, 2014, 02:12:51 PM

Also: Where is it illegal to sell Bitcoin in the US? I had no idea it was...

It is illegal to knowingly sell bitcoins to someone who has admitted they will be used for criminal activity. That covers all of the US.

That is not true. You need to follow AML regulations when selling BTC for cash. In a nutshell these include verifying the identity of the person you are dealing with and reporting any transaction over a certain threshold.

Since many/most traders are likely unaware of AML regulations, LE (undercover) will often say they are using the BTC illegally to give the trader a reason to look into the regulations and rules regarding AML.

herebittybittybitty

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Quote from: ForgottenPassword on August 10, 2014, 02:33:11 PM

Quote from: herebittybittybitty on August 10, 2014, 02:12:51 PM

Also: Where is it illegal to sell Bitcoin in the US? I had no idea it was...

It is illegal to knowingly sell bitcoins to someone who has admitted they will be used for criminal activity. That covers all of the US.

That makes these "stings" to try to turn something legal into something illegal even more disgusting.

fryarminer

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OP, I just want to thank you for this post. It is something I would have never thought about - even though in the same situation I wouldn't have sold to him - but still, this is an eye opener.

Thanks!

ForgottenPassword

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Quote from: herebittybittybitty on August 10, 2014, 02:12:51 PM

Also: Where is it illegal to sell Bitcoin in the US? I had no idea it was...

It is illegal to knowingly sell bitcoins to someone who has admitted they will be used for criminal activity. That covers all of the US.

herebittybittybitty

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Also: Where is it illegal to sell Bitcoin in the US? I had no idea it was...

dserrano5

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I'm wondering how effective would a "Please spare me the details" strategy be. Like "I don't want the details, just BTC for fiat period".

herebittybittybitty

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Quote from: Kipsy89 on August 10, 2014, 02:03:37 PM

Quote from: herebittybittybitty on August 10, 2014, 02:01:17 PM

Quote

They are creating crime in order to prosecute it.

This is pretty standard these days.

They really do that? Man that's really messed up!!! I know there are strange things going on these days, but that's really mean. I mean.. wow... Really sad and messed up! How can you protect yourself from such a thing?

Obviously, be aware of all the laws and don't agree to do anything illegal. But the fact that it's pretty standard to entice people to break laws (with no actual victims, even) that they otherwise wouldn't should be disturbing to people.

dadugan

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Quote from: herebittybittybitty on August 10, 2014, 02:01:17 PM

Quote

They are creating crime in order to prosecute it.

This is pretty standard these days.

This is called entrapment and used to be illegal in the old day.

Kipsy89

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Relax!

Quote from: herebittybittybitty on August 10, 2014, 02:01:17 PM

Quote

They are creating crime in order to prosecute it.

This is pretty standard these days.

They really do that? Man that's really messed up!!! I know there are strange things going on these days, but that's really mean. I mean.. wow... Really sad and messed up! How can you protect yourself from such a thing?

herebittybittybitty

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Quote

They are creating crime in order to prosecute it.

This is pretty standard these days.

leopard2

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Don't sell on LBC if it is not legal in your area

If it is legal I would not ask too many questions, unless you are required by law to do KYC. It is a don't ask don't tell situation, if the other party does not tell you anything suspicious, why ask? It is unpolite, annoying and dangerous for you.

Normally legislation is such that you cannot sell XYZ (bitcoins, firearms etc) to a person if you have reason to believe that they are used for illegal purposes, but you certainly don't have to investigate. In fact that is even true for normal items like a crowbar or a car; if you sell something knowing it will be used for a crime, you will be charged for complicity - not a Bitcoin problem Wink

In that Florida case, they sting buyer actively provided ample information that he was planning illegal use of the bitcoins...and the seller was dumb enough to proceed.

The OP did the right thing and cancel the sale when weed and ecstasy were mentioned... Grin

Kipsy89

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Relax!

Woah man, really? Did that happen to you? Wow, how did you react that fast? I'd never figured that this could be a ploy designed to get me arrested or something! Man, is this even legal for the police or feds to do?

Mobius

hero member

Activity: 988

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: twister on August 10, 2014, 05:52:01 AM

I wonder if if he was like fbi or cia trying to find out about the illegal activities done using bitcoins.

FBI? No.
CIA? Definitely no.
DEA? Possibly an informant working with them.
Local/State douchebag LE? Most likely.

Yea, FBI and CIA are not going to be doing this kind of sting operation unless you are doing something else illegal that they are after you for (if this was the case I would seriously doubt you would be posting your story in the OP). The only reason the DEA would be doing this kind of sting operation would be if they though you were somehow involved in drugs (same principle as before, but less serious of crime).

oceans

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Wow, that is pretty crazy. That would definitely be someone I would turn down without a second though he really does not seem like the kind of guy to be dealing with at all.

Yeezus

full member

Activity: 214

Merit: 100

Is it just me or does this story seem a little...farfetched. I dunno, just seems a little fishy, and if it did happen it seems like entrapment. He also didn't seem to state what exactly he needed the coins for.

twister

hero member

Activity: 672

Merit: 502

I wonder if if he was like fbi or cia trying to find out about the illegal activities done using bitcoins.

tooil

full member

Activity: 181

Merit: 100

For LBC trader, just limit your trade to less than 1k and don't make chit chat and you should be fine.

lyth0s

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1000

World Class Cryptonaire

Thank you for informing us OP. As far as dealing locally in person with cash, I feel that is the only way I would accept cash transactions in exchange for my bitcoins (with the exception of well recognized companies/exchanges) everything else is so reversible, and with western Union you have to give out your full name etc to someone over the web that you're sending bitcoins to, which I actually consider to be even more revealing that just seeing my face (at least I get to see theirs too). I didn't realize that LE would try to setup stings like this and it just adds to the list of forseeable problems with dealing in person.

1. Getting robbed
2. Privacy concerns
3. Possibility of them following you afterwards
4. Law enforcement setups, that should really be illegal themselves

7Priest7

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

I'd prefer to buy locally.
I'd also prefer to wear my anonymous outfit during any bitcoin purchase.

My anonymous outfit is full body covering with a v for vendetta mask.

I hate the idea of sacrificing my privacy for the advantages of buying locally.

I'm too lazy to buy bitcoins anyways.
Buying bitcoins is just a extra step for purchasing legitimate goods and a risky store of value.

knybe

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

decentralize EVERYTHING...

nothing about dealing with localbitcoins appeals to me whatsoever... now even more so.

cryptopaths

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

Crypto Knight

I only assume it will get worse.

Soros Shorts

donator

Activity: 1617

Merit: 1012

Quote from: Devin Chow on August 09, 2014, 02:24:35 PM

But today was different.

Care to divulge your state?

Anyway, thanks for the heads up. I sell a lot on localbitcoins for cash, but I don't usually advertise anymore. Instead I pick pro buyers with good reps and sell to their bids. I recently tried to advertise and got some weirdo potential buyer who asked too many questions and gave out too much information but fortunately I never followed through. You get better prices if you advertise but you also attract the attention of LEO looking to set up an entrapment arrest.

If you are only a seller want to stay low key, you might also want to change LBC accounts before you reach > 150 BTC worth of transactions on any one account. You don't really need a lot of rep as a seller.

Baitty

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Currently held as collateral by monbux

I don't think I would have the confidence to do the local trade it would be going through my mind that the person I'm dealing with could actually be willing to harm me to get to a high amount of Bitcoin I don't think I fancy having that in the back of my mind every time I did a deal with someone locally.

balanghai

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 253

Just why out of nowhere did he ask if you want to get illegal? The agent is not good. Or maybe they're not experienced for a buy bust operation. Anyhow everyone should be very careful.

snarlpill

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 530

$5 24k Gold FREE 4 sign-up! Mene.com/invite/h5ZRRP

Good eyes OP, nice catch. You did the right thing there by canceling the sale, and came to give the community the heads up.

saddambitcoin

legendary

Activity: 1610

Merit: 1004

I used to sell on LBC just for fun and to help get new people started with BTC. Just like how I got started by using #bitcoin-otc and (rip) Bitinstant.

But the last time I tried an in-person transaction, the person seemed really weird...did not seem to have much interest in bitcoin. I had to cancel the transaction anyway because the LBC sms service was so backlogged it would not release my coins to the buyer after I sent the text.

I remember last year someone contacted me to buy and when I googled their username (due diligence) it turned out they were using the same name on the SR forums where they talked about their business. LOL.

Anyway it does not surprise me that LBC is crawling with LEO, be careful out there!

Mobius

hero member

Activity: 988

Merit: 1000

I think this only applies if you are charging a large markup (this is how they find you) and continue with the transaction after the undercover LE officer says he is going to use the BTC for illegal purposes. If you were to trade face to face by other means, you will likely be safe as it would take up too much of LE's resources to go after everyone that trades face to face like this.

BitCoinDream

legendary

Activity: 2366

Merit: 1204

The revolution will be digital

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: BitCoinDream on August 09, 2014, 02:32:48 PM

On any escrow based exchange like localbitcoins, it is better to trade online rather F2F. People will get to accustomed to this fact with time.

I respectfully disagree.

For you and I, online exchanges are a great idea. That's because we know what the scammer signs are.

To the complete newbie, in person is the ONLY smart way. I can't count how many Bitcoin newcomers have told me, "I tried to buy on this or that site and never received my Bitcoin."

In person + cash = 90% guaranteed to receive your coin.

In person + cash + dealing with me = 100% guaranteed to receive your coin.

I understand what u r saying, but it is because the current system on localbitcoins does not provide enough security to the traders, especially sellers. This is not the problem of escrow based system. This is because of the flaw in localbitcoin's system design. Because, when it was written, Jeremias did not account for much to deal with a scammer. He tried to make it hindrance free. Sadly their are no much alternatives as of yet. Hopefully we will see proper escrow based exchanges in coming days...

desired_username

hero member

Activity: 886

Merit: 1013

Quote from: Repteezy on August 09, 2014, 02:43:27 PM

I was honestly considering using BTC before, but after I read this I've made my mind up. Thank you for the heads up.

Sting operations are nothing new or exclusive to bitcoin.

gelross2014

newbie

Activity: 53

Merit: 0

I think if you're gonna sell on Localbitcoins, cash deposit is better, just dont go first

bigasic

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Great post.. i am thinking about selling bitcoin locally on local bitcoins. I figured I would be okay if i just accepted cash and didn't use an exchange to do the transaction. But I do know for a FACT that the DEA and Homeland security have a whole division that is looking into localbitcoin. So, do what the op did, if you have any clue that the buyer/seller is doing something illegal, tell him exactly what the op did. I believe the guy the op ran into was indeed a cop and was hoping to get a drug connection, ect. not really a bitcoin bust, but the govt thinks that if you are using bitcoin the transaction HAS to be illegal..

Omikifuse

legendary

Activity: 1820

Merit: 1009

Is that spreading to the world?

Or only in USA stuffs like that are common, for now?

maurya78

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

This is excellent advice, thanks for posting
Exercise common sense, err on the side f caution, shoot straight so you don't get into needless trouble

gelross2014

newbie

Activity: 53

Merit: 0

looks like BTC is the new currency of those delinquents

Repteezy

newbie

Activity: 12

Merit: 0

I was honestly considering using BTC before, but after I read this I've made my mind up. Thank you for the heads up.

abercrombie

legendary

Activity: 1159

Merit: 1001

I trade on LBC and can confirm similar suspicions.

Couple weeks ago I initiated a purchase with a local seller. Typically Bitcoin people I've met are open and excited about the currency but this seller didn't seem particularly friendly and politely just answered yes or no. What struck me as odd was as I was leaving, I caught the glance of another man seated at another table and his eyes widened as if he saw Lenin's ghost then quickly averted eye contact. I've seen that look before when I've been followed by poorly trained undercover security at department stores.

This week, I received a package of clothing that I was expecting. It had a clean 2 inch slit as if my mail were being inspected.

That's all to report for now, but I'm going to send some test mail to myself. Maybe send some flour or something... Shocked

beetcoin

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

they must believe that a vast majority of bitcoin users are druggies and peddlers.. that or they just want to make bitcoin look bad. what's funny is that they'd be buying the bitcoin with CASH.

gelross2014

newbie

Activity: 53

Merit: 0

i tried selling to localbitcoins twice, i hope nothing like that happens to me.

fanboy4

newbie

Activity: 41

Merit: 0

Localbitcoin is risky place to make business.

BitCoinDream

legendary

Activity: 2366

Merit: 1204

The revolution will be digital

TheNewAnon135246

legendary

Activity: 2198

Merit: 1989

฿uy ฿itcoin

Wow that's something to think about. Sounds like you did the right thing turning him down.

Devin Chow

newbie

Activity: 53

Merit: 0

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Topic: .. (Read 6215 times)