[09-22-2018] Bitcoin Transactions Up to 6000x Cheaper Than Bank of America Fees

1BTC EQUALS 1CAR

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Quote from: 1Referee on September 23, 2018, 03:22:18 PM

Quote from: bitmover on September 22, 2018, 12:54:00 PM

Yesterday i just made a transaction for 0.01 usd. Confirmed in less than 30 minutes. People cry about btc fees,. But look at the banking system fees.

These people aren't real users but parasites. They complain about Bitcoin fees in the pennies while they allow themselves to be extorted by platforms such as PayPal.

People are too stupid to realize that Bitcoin's transaction fees are the cheapest from all crypto currencies.

It's the complete package you get when you use Bitcoin that matters;

- transacting through the safest network.
- by far the most liquid crypto currency.
- by far the most accepted/wanted crypto currency economically speaking.

Based on the above, I'll gladly pay even $1 in fees if I have to. Current fees of $0.01-$0.05 are an absolute steal. Great time to consolidate your inputs.

And surely Paypal will increase their fees in the coming years which is surely unaaceptable for people who need to pay using their platform. And then when they notice that ridiculous fees of those banks and other payment platforms, they will flock into bitcoin automatically.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: hugeblack on September 23, 2018, 08:22:03 AM

the lightning network is not activated.

That's wrong, the Bitcoin lightning network has been operating for 6 months or so

Quote from: LeGaulois on September 23, 2018, 08:48:16 AM

People's minds are still in December where the costs were quite high. I see a lot of posts in this forum where people keep saying that bitcoin fees are high. 'even if it's currently some cents)
I don't know if it's ignorance or they haven't done a single bitcoin transaction in their life.

In Bitcoin 0.18.0 (release slated for March 2019), minimum fees are proposed to drop by 80%.

Anyone still maintaining Bitcoin has high fees this time next year is gonna look a little strange. By that time, segwit and lightning usage are likely to have increased even more, which will only put further downward pressure on fees in the direction of the new minimum rate.

Quote from: squatter on September 23, 2018, 04:37:15 PM

Someday, that fee might look more like $10, $100 or more.

It's the cheapest if you need Bitcoin's security. I think there are lots of cases where that's probably not necessary -- smaller/micro payments and such. Offchain mechanisms like Lightning are one option, sidechains are another. Altcoins are another. In fact, once inter-protocol compatibility is figured out, any altcoin that can communicate and interact with Bitcoin is effectively a sidechain. All these options involve security trade-offs: They don't have Bitcoin's security, but they can be much cheaper to use.

It's unlikely that Bitcoin will ever need such high fees when you take into account all the on-chain scaling options that can be implemented long term.

The case for using atomic swaps to avoid Bitcoin's on-chain fees makes no sense at all: you need to have a payment channel open to do the swap, plus you need to pay a lightning routing fee to do the swap. Paying over the lightning network directly can only be the cheapest option in that case. How can you possibly save any money by paying additional fees to send on a different chain too?

Quote from: Samarkand on September 25, 2018, 06:02:38 AM

The block reward halving will happen in May by the way and not in June according
to current projections (Reward-Drop ETA date: 21 May 2020 15:43:57).

If the hashrate continues to grow as it has been, the projections are that April 2020 is the more likely date for the next block reward halving. Long time till then, we will see.

Samarkand

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Quote from: Coin-1 on September 24, 2018, 11:34:00 PM

...
It should be noted that in June 2020 the reward for mining will be reduced from 12.5 BTC to 6.25 BTC for each mined block, so Bitcoin's fees probably will be increased,
because miners will not accept transactions with a low commission.

Miners have to pay for their expenses like electricity and hardware in fiat. It is entirely
possible that 6.25 BTC after the block reward halving in 2020 will have a higher fiat value
than 12.5 BTC as of today.

I´d argue that we will only see bigger transaction fees when
either new spam attacks are launched on the BTC network or the genuine demand
for BTC transactions outgrows the current capacity.

The block reward halving will happen in May by the way and not in June according
to current projections (Reward-Drop ETA date: 21 May 2020 15:43:57).

1Referee

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Quote from: bitmover on September 24, 2018, 06:01:20 PM

I am not a specialist, but I don't think it's easy for a big plataform such as coinbase or any other trading plataform migrate to segwit.

One thing is to move your 30 small inputs into a segwit address, but they have millions of addresses, associated with another millions of users. Also, security always comes First. I avoid to move large sums of bitcoin, they probably do too.
There are also probably contracts with security companies that work with them, that might make this migration slower. There are many factors that influence this migration that we do not know.

Coinbase as the largest and most regulated exchange is the prime example of how simple it is for a very large platform to implement Segwit. If you also add that Coinbase has gone through so many fundamental upgrades on both its retail and professional platform, if there would be one entity in this space that had all the reasons to slow down the implementation of Segwit, it would be Coinbase.

Also, they don't necessarily have to move all their value from legacy to Segwit addresses directly. They can move them whenever they think it's necessary or the best time (financially speaking) to consolidate inputs. There are really no excuses left to come up with after all this time.

DooMAD

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Leave no FUD unchallenged

Quote from: squatter on September 23, 2018, 04:37:15 PM

Offchain mechanisms like Lightning are one option, sidechains are another. Altcoins are another. In fact, once inter-protocol compatibility is figured out, any altcoin that can communicate and interact with Bitcoin is effectively a sidechain.

Providing that interoperability becomes almost as simple as making a transaction, to the point where coins on different chains are practically fungible, it could well unfold this way. It's probably a long way off, but I can't wait to see the day where atomic swaps are just a regular everyday occurrence and aren't even thought of as anything special anymore. Not everyone likes the idea, but I still see Lightning as the "inter-layer", rather than just a "second layer". While it may not be accurate to describe other blockchains as "layers", that's how people would effectively use them if it proves to be the path of least resistance.

Quote from: https://www.cryptoground.com/a/bitcoin-transactions-6000x-cheaper-bank-of-america-fees

If $90,000 are transferred using the traditional banking method, users can be charged as much as $45 by the banks (as it is in the case of Bank of America). However, a Bitcoin transaction for the same amount would result in a fees of only 75 cents!

Errrm...

45.00 / 0.75 != 6000

Should that not be 60x cheaper?

Maybe once LN becomes mainstream and fees are often sub-penny amounts, then the 6000x bit might be accurate.

Coin-1

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Quote from: 1Referee on September 23, 2018, 03:22:18 PM

It's the complete package you get when you use Bitcoin that matters;

- transacting through the safest network.
- by far the most liquid crypto currency.
- by far the most accepted/wanted crypto currency economically speaking.

I can add that the transactions of banks are reversible and Bitcoin's transactions are immutable.

Yes, Bitcoin's fees are not so high today as they were in December 2017, and its network is clear of the spam transactions which likely made by Bitcoin's competitors.

It should be noted that in June 2020 the reward for mining will be reduced from 12.5 BTC to 6.25 BTC for each mined block, so Bitcoin's fees probably will be increased, because miners will not accept transactions with a low commission.

bitmover

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Quote from: squatter on September 24, 2018, 04:55:04 PM

Quote from: BitHodler on September 23, 2018, 06:21:46 PM

Quote from: hugeblack on September 23, 2018, 08:22:03 AM

If large platforms"Blockchain.info, trading platform" activate SegWit, we will see more low fees, but it seems that someone wants to keep these fees cheap and not very very very cheap"less than 0.001".

It seems that there is a global dislike towards SegWit when you take into consideration that even Litecoin is severely lagging behind. Currently it's inching closer towards the 50% mark.

Bitcoin has surpassed the 40% mark some days ago, which probably means that somewhere in 2019 we'll break 50% if larger platforms don't cooperate. It's pretty frustrating to see how it doesn't pick up faster.

I think that's just the nature of opt-in upgrades. If it's not necessary, most people will take their sweet time -- it took me at least a couple months to start using Segwit myself after it was released. Nothing wrong with that.

If anything, it's a sign that people don't feel pressured by fees to get the modest fee reduction that Segwit provides. That might change the next time fees start ramping up like they did late last year.

I am not a specialist, but I don't think it's easy for a big plataform such as coinbase or any other trading plataform migrate to segwit.

One thing is to move your 30 small inputs into a segwit address, but they have millions of addresses, associated with another millions of users. Also, security always comes First. I avoid to move large sums of bitcoin, they probably do too.
There are also probably contracts with security companies that work with them, that might make this migration slower. There are many factors that influence this migration that we do not know.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: BitHodler on September 23, 2018, 06:21:46 PM

Quote from: hugeblack on September 23, 2018, 08:22:03 AM

If large platforms"Blockchain.info, trading platform" activate SegWit, we will see more low fees, but it seems that someone wants to keep these fees cheap and not very very very cheap"less than 0.001".

It seems that there is a global dislike towards SegWit when you take into consideration that even Litecoin is severely lagging behind. Currently it's inching closer towards the 50% mark.

Bitcoin has surpassed the 40% mark some days ago, which probably means that somewhere in 2019 we'll break 50% if larger platforms don't cooperate. It's pretty frustrating to see how it doesn't pick up faster.

I think that's just the nature of opt-in upgrades. If it's not necessary, most people will take their sweet time -- it took me at least a couple months to start using Segwit myself after it was released. Nothing wrong with that.

If anything, it's a sign that people don't feel pressured by fees to get the modest fee reduction that Segwit provides. That might change the next time fees start ramping up like they did late last year.

BitHodler

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Quote from: hugeblack on September 23, 2018, 08:22:03 AM

If large platforms"Blockchain.info, trading platform" activate SegWit, we will see more low fees, but it seems that someone wants to keep these fees cheap and not very very very cheap"less than 0.001".

It seems that there is a global dislike towards SegWit when you take into consideration that even Litecoin is severely lagging behind. Currently it's inching closer towards the 50% mark.

Bitcoin has surpassed the 40% mark some days ago, which probably means that somewhere in 2019 we'll break 50% if larger platforms don't cooperate. It's pretty frustrating to see how it doesn't pick up faster.

No one is obliged to actually run SegWit in full glory, but we should be on equal mind when it comes to allowing Bitcoin to scale. It's definitely a big block thing with how they also block Litecoin in various ways.

Litecoin is threat to Bcash because it's faster and just as cheap to use.

squatter

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Quote from: 1Referee on September 23, 2018, 03:22:18 PM

People are too stupid to realize that Bitcoin's transaction fees are the cheapest from all crypto currencies.

It's the complete package you get when you use Bitcoin that matters;

- transacting through the safest network.
- by far the most liquid crypto currency.
- by far the most accepted/wanted crypto currency economically speaking.

Based on the above, I'll gladly pay even $1 in fees if I have to. Current fees of $0.01-$0.05 are an absolute steal. Great time to consolidate your inputs.

Someday, that fee might look more like $10, $100 or more.

It's the cheapest if you need Bitcoin's security. I think there are lots of cases where that's probably not necessary -- smaller/micro payments and such. Offchain mechanisms like Lightning are one option, sidechains are another. Altcoins are another. In fact, once inter-protocol compatibility is figured out, any altcoin that can communicate and interact with Bitcoin is effectively a sidechain. All these options involve security trade-offs: They don't have Bitcoin's security, but they can be much cheaper to use.

rodskee

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Not all exchange are charges lower transactions fees in very transaction in bitcoin
Some platform not adjust there transaction fees eve if the bitcoin price is dropping
But ofcourse compare bitcoin transaction fees between banks are have a different
Banks is high cpfees than cryptocurrency fees that's why people choose to use bitcoin because of low fees

1Referee

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Quote from: bitmover on September 22, 2018, 12:54:00 PM

Yesterday i just made a transaction for 0.01 usd. Confirmed in less than 30 minutes. People cry about btc fees,. But look at the banking system fees.

These people aren't real users but parasites. They complain about Bitcoin fees in the pennies while they allow themselves to be extorted by platforms such as PayPal.

People are too stupid to realize that Bitcoin's transaction fees are the cheapest from all crypto currencies.

It's the complete package you get when you use Bitcoin that matters;

- transacting through the safest network.
- by far the most liquid crypto currency.
- by far the most accepted/wanted crypto currency economically speaking.

Based on the above, I'll gladly pay even $1 in fees if I have to. Current fees of $0.01-$0.05 are an absolute steal. Great time to consolidate your inputs.

LeGaulois

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People's minds are still in December where the costs were quite high. I see a lot of posts in this forum where people keep saying that bitcoin fees are high. 'even if it's currently some cents)
I don't know if it's ignorance or they haven't done a single bitcoin transaction in their life.

As for the article, I think it takes the extreme side of things. If it had to compare with other banks in the eurozone, with SEPA it's free.

Personally, I don't care if I pay pennies for a transaction.

hugeblack

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If large platforms"Blockchain.info, trading platform" activate SegWit, we will see more low fees, but it seems that someone wants to keep these fees cheap and not very very very cheap"less than 0.001".
The same applies to all altcoins supporters "they were protesting that they had low fees."
Overall we were able to reach 2.26 MB & keep 1MB although the lightning network is not activated.

yugyug

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This is some of the reasons why banks hate bitcoin as it is the big threat to this institution that it might dissolve someday for the bitcoin transaction fees were lower than any American banks and if more people were aware of how cheap is the bitcoin transaction fees then they might tend to move all their savings from bank to bitcoin holdings.

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Bitcoin Transactions Up to 6000x Cheaper Than Bank of America Fees

https://www.cryptoground.com/a/bitcoin-transactions-6000x-cheaper-bank-of-america-fees

Quote

Over the years there have been a number of claims which have been made about how Bitcoin will replace the existing banking ecosystem and how cryptocurrencies are great for financial transactions. As time passes, there is a concrete evidence which proves this theory correct. It has now come to light that Bank of America charges up to 6000 times more than a regular Bitcoin transaction when the same amount of money is considered.

If $90,000 are transferred using the traditional banking method, users can be charged as much as $45 by the banks (as it is in the case of Bank of America). However, a Bitcoin transaction for the same amount would result in a fees of only 75 cents! Interestingly, banks use the US Federal Reserve’s money transfer service, FedWire for the transactions - which charges a maximum of 83 cents from the banks. However, banks are charging astronomical amounts, which add to their profits.

Considering that the FedWire service has different criterion according to which it charges fees, the lowest rate at which a transaction of $90,000 could be allowed is that of $0.032. The minimum amount that the Bank of America charges for the transaction is $30 - which means their minimum profit margin is 87.2%.

Yesterday i just made a transaction for 0.01 usd. Confirmed in less than 30 minutes. People cry about btc fees,. But look at the banking system fees.

Topic: [09-22-2018] Bitcoin Transactions Up to 6000x Cheaper Than Bank of America Fees (Read 253 times)