Topic: 200k btc,big move,2014-03-07 (Read 6561 times)

Any new news about these Bitcoins? can any one confirm that MTGox loaded its' online wallet/s / hot storage?

Now im sure about mtgox bastards

paper wallets weigh something br0 and so do usb sticks go back 2 skewl.

24lbs of gold.

unless he is moving these wallets as part of the Japanese investigation...ie liquidate them to fiat asap or we throw your ass in jail..ie show us
you can revover from bankruptcy....

my question is if gox approaches a guy with mtgox account coins of 100million in gox NOW and says the only way we can get your coins

out in the real world is for you to use them to buy in to a revived mtgox exchange with the perm of the Japanese regulators.....well what would you do?

anyway I know zip just speculating that some may have the option to buy into the new gox with their trapped gox coins or lump it

Searing

just checked my paper wallets, they're 200k bitcoin fatter.... i wish

"Please follow the tree https://blockchain.info/tree/114688199 and add more to the thread as you find them."


Outstanding, and I will be exploring those tracks!

Here the layer says "ALMOST ALL LOST"... : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqlZI-PMCAI

So, with almost, she meant 850.000 - 200.000...

Possible ...

Best regards,
ilpirata79

IMO he would prove how stupid he was if he tried that. He has to know its being closely watched.

I have made a thread listing what should be some of the end addresses in this proposed Gox-hot-wallet splitting sequence.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-could-be-the-first-end-results-of-gox-btc-splitting-code-in-action-505989

Please follow the tree https://blockchain.info/tree/114688199 and add more to the thread as you find them.

For the theory that the leaked code is the true Gox code and that this is the code in action right now to hold (for the time being at least) there should be no movement from these addresses (all addresses with under 10BTC at each) unless it is initiated by a new process (withdrawals, transfers to tumblers, etc.).

I think it is very useful to have an exhaustive list of these addresses so all work to add to the list is extremely beneficial and helps to compile evidence.

I'm off to bed. Goodnight!

Good points, I wanted to highlight this.  Because, the bots were trading right up to the end.  I think what is unsettling to me, is that weaponized code, has now been leaked to the whole botworld.

As we know, essentially all trading markets on Earth are dominated indeed frontrun by robot traders.  So, how do they think and act?  Like, the botnets that insert cryptominer code.  I suppose what I am saying is that virushunting has now merged with cryptography and money systems at an epic level.  The new kind of bot, sits and hums, waiting for orders, disposes of self after theft and xfer of BTC, etc

The releasing of the Gox code was to me, a bit deal.  And I am very worried about the Goxxies identities in terms of what actors now have that data?  Truly a fumble of great potential.  And the refs are not even gonna review it, the game goes on.

Oh, sure, my first statement is speculation on my part.  (I thought you were saying that there was an official statement from Gox saying that they lost all the coins - sorry if I misunderstood.)

But the way in which the coins are being moved is very specific.  What we know is that these coins are being moved in a way that is consistent with the way the PHP code that purports to be the leaked Mt Gox code would automatically move coins.  That much is pretty much indisputable.  So the possibilities are:

1. 200,000 coins have been loaded into the Gox hot wallet, or
2. Someone with access to 200,000 coins (the thief?) is making it look like 200,000 coins have been loaded into the Gox hot wallet, or
3. The leaked code is a fake, so the movement of the coins being consistent with the way the leaked code would move them proves nothing, and this transaction is somehow unrelated to Gox (or at least it doesn't mean what it appears to mean)

I haven't looked at it, but other people have found past evidence on the blockchain that confirms that this really is how the Gox hot wallet works.  (3) sounded pretty implausible anyway, but I'm willing to discount it pretty much completely based on this evidence.

So this leaves us with (1) and (2).  There was some discussion on reddit as to which of (1) or (2) were the case, but gmaxwell claims to have found evidence via the Gox API (which is apparently still live) that strongly suggests (1) is the case.  I haven't looked at this evidence but I'm inclined to trust gmaxewell's evaluation of the evidence.

So, based on the above (and always remembering that this may be out-of-date as I write it, and certainly as you read it): what we very strongly believe, right now (although of course can't say with 100% certainty) is that someone has loaded 200,000 coins into the Gox hot wallet.

Yes, we don't know who, how, what or why.  So yes, the rest is speculation on my part.  (But if anyone has a more plausible explanation as to how or why someone has loaded 200,000 coins into the Gox hot wallet I'm all ears.)

1. "No, it would appear that these are the remaining 200,000 coins that Gox has left..."

2. "The official line, in the legal documents filing for bankruptcy, says nothing about how many coins they have left..."

That's why I said "exactly". Your second statement backs up my assertion that your first statement is not based on any official information.

If this were the TV show CSI

could we say the crime scene has been despoiled?

I'am sort of suprised of so much coins held (deposited) by mtgox considering trading volume.

"Exactly" what?  I'm saying I don't recall any of the official statements actually saying that they've lost all the coins.  If you have a reference to such an official statement I'd be interested.

Exactly

Yes, and they cannot discuss the "losing" details, I would guess due to other control vectors.  Because, if you get mugged, you can give an account of it "He came up behind me!" or "He told me the money was to buy a chicken farm!"

But in this case the answer is "stolen and we can't say more than that."  Because lawyers.

The official line, in the legal documents filing for bankruptcy, says nothing about how many coins they have left, only how many they lost.

Because that's what the hot wallet code does.  We know this because the PHP code has been leaked.  There was some discussion as to whether this was really the Gox hot wallet, or a thief (who has read the leaked code) deliberately faking it to look like the Gox wallet.  But Greg Maxwell pretty much conclusively confirmed it using the Gox API.

See the links I posted above.

Where did you read that they have 200,000 coins remaining? The official line is they have nothing.

If they had exactly 200,000 coins left it would be strange for them to move everything to the hot wallet, wouldn't it?

 

If it was only an audit why split it up? When Mark moved some 400k BTC back in 2011 he didn't split it up...

No, it would appear that these are the remaining 200,000 coins that Gox has left after the theft of the 850,000 coins.  And that they are being moved from Gox cold storage to the Gox hot wallet. 

See:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zt2hc/i_made_a_network_map_of_where_the_coins_went_from/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zshct/4ee89f7cf824a85ad5f11d52604ffdebe9f01302bcea8ddec0/cfwnd2v?context=3

As to what Gox are doing with these coins, who knows?  But due to the bankruptcy proceedings it's unlikely that anything will happen quickly.  It could just be part of an audit to prove that these few coins are still accessible.

roy

Oh of course you will, and may you succeed!  Indeed, your 15k in BTC could go to 150k you lost, or even 1.5 mil you lost --THAT is what hurts so much.

Man these Goxxies, you have been hurt.  I mean, I never trusted Gox at all, but, it is still not fair when you are core adoptors and then you get shat upon.  Capital-ists and Commune-ists will each have their solutions no doubt.  And yet there is a third column, which exists only to steal, and which doesn't hide under the other two party brands.

Anyway as to your question, there is the other thread where a user has analyzed the movment and suggests it is being done using the Gox source code to break up large amounts.  So, since everyone now has access to the source code (a brilliant chess move imo) then it's anyone guess as to who can activate the code, and from where.

Sorry that I am a "newbie" after a year on this forum, but I have never felt a need to post something before.

This does sound like the first steps of a MtGox recovery and I wanted to express why I feel that way.  I may be a total idiot, but this big move of 200k BTC got me rather excited.

I only had about $15,000 in MtGox when it shut down, so I am only a little player.  However, if it was an actual theft, then I will spend the rest of my life tracking down the people responsible.

Once again, I still feel strongly that it was an incompetent software error and that MtGox will eventually recover and allow limited withdraws.

If I hold a paper wallet, I can trade it with key for anything else.

Then it is THAT person's problem to liquidate.  But yes, this is interesting to watch.

With thousands of very upset MtGox customers tracing every movement on the blockchain, how long would you last until someone recognized your wallet and called the police when you dared to exchange those bitcoin for fiat?

You can run, but you can not hide!

Hmm,

500k in BTC form = weightless (run forever)
500k in bank notes = has weight, still can maybe run with it (not far)
500k in gold = hard to run with

I have very little trust in the "leaked documents" and rely upon what has actually been traced in the blockchain.  Of the multiple theories expressed, I still believe that incompetence from poor management is closer to reality, than any actual theft.

Personally, I think that MtGox lost their database of private keys and is working hard to recover them.  If so, then this recent activity may be a good indication that they have recovered some of those private keys.

I may be a fool, but as a Software Engineer, this is the scenario that I have the most confidence with.

If I was able to recover a wallet with 100K BTC, what would I do to prevent this from happening again?  I would split those bitcoins into multiple wallets of 10 or 5 BTC, to insure that this would never happen to me again.

I have done the exact same thing with my personal bitcoin and keep them in paper wallets of 5 BTC groups.

Maybe. However when they made their statement, they claimed that the DHS seizure was ~$5mil worth of assets. These are over $150million and these wallets weren't "counted" when they released their assets/liability claims.

It is very likely that bitcoins will be able to be withdrawn soon, however as to fiat it will take much more time (several months) because of bankrupcy protection procedures.
But since bitcoin isn't regulated and wasn't included in the losses then it can escape the wait for the decision of japanese courts.
To me it the scenario looks like to become almost that of BTC-24.

2) doesn't work because transactions are being splitted in accordance with Mt. Gox's own code.

Another theory is that the feds allowed Mark to withdraw a part of his bitcoins, remmeber that so far this is the theory that makes most sense.

If MtGox was unable to obtain their private keys, then this is great news.

Perhaps the coins in "cold storage" are now available and are being distributed to multiple wallets, to minimize the vulnerability of future theft or loss.  Remember the statement: "technically they are not lost, but not available at this time."

This is exactly the type of activity that I would anticipate, prior to their going live once again.  If so, then there is a possibility of limited withdraws soon.

Who knows what the future holds, but I have remained optimistic that MtGox will eventually recover.

What would make sense now are only two scenarios:

1) MTGOX had encrypted the keys and couldn't decrypt them any more - now checked all possible decryption scenarios until one worked. Now - to avoid having an "all in" scenario again - they decided to split them and handle each wallet with a different security.

2) The Bitcoin transaction in 2011 was a transaction by someone close to MTGox did them a favor to proclaim liquidity. When he now found out that his wallet is under suspicion, it gave him the creeps and he moved them to several others.

3) The "thief" theory is - reasons already mentioned above - off the table.

well yeah, and the big time fraud theory by someone from MTGox, believing authorities will be unable to ever catch him - i hope at least not.

Yes that's true. Personally I don't think that Mark or anyone is planning to rob the coins, it just doesn't fit with all the information we've had so far.

I'm just saying that if it's a thief then he will probably use a bitcoin pool to launder the coins but it's probably was gmaxwell said on IRC, that Mark is preparing the hot wallets.

Wait and see.

I don't want to raise hope, I really don't, but why would he use the same splitting system that has been seen in action before, the code for which was leaked recently - ie the Gox hot wallet system - if he was trying to do it without being spotted? Wouldn't you write some different code for the splitter, something that doesn't have Gox's signature all over it?

Next step, laundering the coins so that they remain untraceable?

Mark will have to justify these movements, of course the 850k BTC heist was a lie but now what is he doing? Preparing to give back our coins or find a way to rob them without being spotted?

"Tumbling" for lack of better word. I realize not tumbling in the sense of "washing them". At least, not yet.

This is not "tumbling".

well - at least it proves, the keys of those wallets weren't lost.

Bitcoin is great isn't it?

No no this is just um part of transaction malleability and yea sorry for loosing your coins and all that .

Also deeply sorry for the inconvenience.


Guess I'm past the point of looking for hope because this doesn't even stir a glimmer of it. Five days ago I would have been reading into this in so many crazy ways.  



Yea I saw something like this going on a few jumps from gox a week or so ago have you and addresses I can have a peep at ? I'm a massive noob on the block chain but still one learns by looking.

 

Pft. There was no "theft". That's BS. ALL of the 5 wallets in the link above were known to last be accessed by Mt.Gox in 2011. How could they (GOX) claim that those bitcoin were "stolen" when they were still sitting in those wallets the entire time and were never touched (until this morning that is). What, someone stole the keys to those wallets? I don't believe that. A thief would have transferred and started tumbling those BTC the moment they had access to it, not sit and wait for GOX to fall, have all eyes on GOX and then 2+ years later all of a sudden wake up one morning and decide to wipe the wallets out.

Very interesting ...
that is probably the case because there is no way for a thief to hide coins that way...

Comments from nullc aka bitcoin core developer gmaxwell on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zshct/4ee89f7cf824a85ad5f11d52604ffdebe9f01302bcea8ddec0/cfwnd2v?context=3

May be the thief (thieves) moving funds...
They are dividing sums and sending them to different addresses.

They are currently transferring and dividing big sums from each new address to two new addresses.
Every step makes sums twice smaller.

And it is happening NOW !

Actually, about $150million, give or take.

I can't believe this isn't bigger news. All bitcoin/crypto bloggers still focusing on the LA Bitcoin Chase from yesterday. This should be plastered all over the place right now. It's pretty damn apparent that MtGox was the last entity to have access to those bitcoins and now all of a sudden, all of those wallets on the same day are being emptied out. Wallets that haven't been touched since 2011. All at the same time. All getting "tumbled" through different addresses.

Unless MtGox releases a statement stating that they have recovered a vast amount of their "missing" bitcoins, I'm going to assume that someone either at Gox or associated with GOX is trying to get all of these bitcoin tumbled for their own personal gain.

Maybe MtGox repaying their debts?

wow that's fucked up, over 100m dollars moved with a click of a button almost instantly!!!

with 0 fee's!

Fees   0 BTC

Something more ... they are being transferred to a lot of different addressed (mixing).

Someone is getting away with our money ?

See here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5450600

Reasonable belief that ALL of those wallets were under MtGox control the last time they were accessed. Now all of a sudden in 1 day, ALL of them are getting their bitcoin transferred out?

DA FUQ???

That is not BIG ... that is HUGE !

May be GOX cold storage moving ?!

Those are some old coins too.  All from 2011-11-16... Satoshi?

https://blockchain.info/tx/4ee89f7cf824a85ad5f11d52604ffdebe9f01302bcea8ddec0af450f9185ddf1