Author

Topic: 2013-04-29 bitcoin-square: Plus500 now offers BTCUSD instrument (Read 3738 times)

legendary
Activity: 2413
Merit: 1003

funny that the text mentions Plus500 as a "real broker" at the end.



does anybody know why this broker blocks IPs from Brazil?
sr. member
Activity: 358
Merit: 250
What kind of bullshit is this? Are they set up to send and receive Bitcoin deposits? Or is this purely "paper Bitcoin?" (i.e. notional). Is everything cash settled or can you withdraw Bitcoins after a purchase?



It's just a virtual trade of a virtual currency, or a virtual virtual instrument.

So: If you place a bet on Betsofbitcoin on whether or not they'll keep this BTC/USD CFD, you'd be making a virtual wager with a virtual currency on a virtual financial instrument based on a virtual currency.

In other words, similar to the business model of JP Morgan and most of the other market makers, just on a smaller scale. Grin

legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1031
This is pure bullshit - no Bitcoins actually change hands. This is a gambling website, and you are betting against the house. It's called a "bucket shop:"

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket_shop_%28stock_market%29

Quote
As defined by the U.S. Supreme Court a bucket shop is "[a]n establishment, nominally for the transaction of a stock exchange business, or business of similar character, but really for the registration of bets, or wagers, usually for small amounts, on the rise or fall of the prices of stocks, grain, oil, etc., there being no transfer or delivery of the stock or commodities nominally dealt in."[1] People often mistakenly interchange the words bucket shop and boiler room, but there is actually a significant difference. A boiler room has been defined as a place where high-pressure salespeople use banks of telephones to call lists of potential investors (known as "sucker lists") in order to peddle speculative, even fraudulent, securities. However, with a bucket shop, it could be better thought of as a place where people go to make “side bets” – similar to a bookie.

Plus500 is a bucket shop and cannot accept U.S. customers (because bucket shops are against Federal regulations):

How to recognize a Bucket Shop broker:
http://ezinearticles.com/?How-To-Recognize-A-Bucket-Shop-Broker---Six-Signs-of-A-Fraud-Brokerage&id=6699723

Plus500 Review (indicates that they do not accept U.S. customers):
http://fxbuild.com/plus500-review/

So? You place bets on wether the price will go up or down. What's the problem? Are you against gambling?

This seems like the way speculation should be done in a free market. It's actually a more effective way of speculating since you remove the overhead of dealing with physical products. CFD trading still has an indirect effect on the bitcoin price the same way actual trading of bitcoins would. If there is a lot of buying pressure on the CFD it will drive the price up making it diverge from the real bitcoin price. This would create an arbitrage opportunity, meaning you could short the CFD and buy bitcoins and gain regardless of where the price goes, giving you a riskless* return. Doing this would drive both prices towards eachother again.

So again, what is the problem with this? The only effect of people trading these instruments will be increased volume on regular exchanges from people arbitraging. More people having a say on the price is good since it reduces the power any single individual have.

*There is still the third party risk of a company with your money going bust etc.

once you become a day trader... the line between gambling and financial investments becomes very blurry!
sr. member
Activity: 323
Merit: 251
This is pure bullshit - no Bitcoins actually change hands. This is a gambling website, and you are betting against the house. It's called a "bucket shop:"

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket_shop_%28stock_market%29

Quote
As defined by the U.S. Supreme Court a bucket shop is "[a]n establishment, nominally for the transaction of a stock exchange business, or business of similar character, but really for the registration of bets, or wagers, usually for small amounts, on the rise or fall of the prices of stocks, grain, oil, etc., there being no transfer or delivery of the stock or commodities nominally dealt in."[1] People often mistakenly interchange the words bucket shop and boiler room, but there is actually a significant difference. A boiler room has been defined as a place where high-pressure salespeople use banks of telephones to call lists of potential investors (known as "sucker lists") in order to peddle speculative, even fraudulent, securities. However, with a bucket shop, it could be better thought of as a place where people go to make “side bets” – similar to a bookie.

Plus500 is a bucket shop and cannot accept U.S. customers (because bucket shops are against Federal regulations):

How to recognize a Bucket Shop broker:
http://ezinearticles.com/?How-To-Recognize-A-Bucket-Shop-Broker---Six-Signs-of-A-Fraud-Brokerage&id=6699723

Plus500 Review (indicates that they do not accept U.S. customers):
http://fxbuild.com/plus500-review/

So? You place bets on wether the price will go up or down. What's the problem? Are you against gambling?

This seems like the way speculation should be done in a free market. It's actually a more effective way of speculating since you remove the overhead of dealing with physical products. CFD trading still has an indirect effect on the bitcoin price the same way actual trading of bitcoins would. If there is a lot of buying pressure on the CFD it will drive the price up making it diverge from the real bitcoin price. This would create an arbitrage opportunity, meaning you could short the CFD and buy bitcoins and gain regardless of where the price goes, giving you a riskless* return. Doing this would drive both prices towards eachother again.

So again, what is the problem with this? The only effect of people trading these instruments will be increased volume on regular exchanges from people arbitraging. More people having a say on the price is good since it reduces the power any single individual have.

*There is still the third party risk of a company with your money going bust etc.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
Now it's the first thing popping up if you google bitcoin. You can't withdraw btc, it's like paper silver. They're in it to make funny money, not making bitcoin.

fixed.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
Now it's the first thing popping up if you google bitcoin. You can't withdraw btc, it's like paper silver. They're in it to make money, not making bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
This is pure bullshit - no Bitcoins actually change hands. This is a gambling website, and you are betting against the house. It's called a "bucket shop:"

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket_shop_%28stock_market%29

Quote
As defined by the U.S. Supreme Court a bucket shop is "[a]n establishment, nominally for the transaction of a stock exchange business, or business of similar character, but really for the registration of bets, or wagers, usually for small amounts, on the rise or fall of the prices of stocks, grain, oil, etc., there being no transfer or delivery of the stock or commodities nominally dealt in."[1] People often mistakenly interchange the words bucket shop and boiler room, but there is actually a significant difference. A boiler room has been defined as a place where high-pressure salespeople use banks of telephones to call lists of potential investors (known as "sucker lists") in order to peddle speculative, even fraudulent, securities. However, with a bucket shop, it could be better thought of as a place where people go to make “side bets” – similar to a bookie.

Plus500 is a bucket shop and cannot accept U.S. customers (because bucket shops are against Federal regulations):

How to recognize a Bucket Shop broker:
http://ezinearticles.com/?How-To-Recognize-A-Bucket-Shop-Broker---Six-Signs-of-A-Fraud-Brokerage&id=6699723

Plus500 Review (indicates that they do not accept U.S. customers):
http://fxbuild.com/plus500-review/
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1362
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1362
"The Bitcoin / USD was in test mode for a while. Currently, the instrument is not offered by us anymore"

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ded1g/the_bitcoin_usd_was_in_test_mode_for_a_while/
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Born to chew bubble gum and kick ass
I do not mind founding the account at Plus500 with a few bucks required just to get a reasonably reliable real-time data feed + to get ability to perform basic technical analysis.

Did I say I wouldn't mind? - Heck! - I'd love to  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1284
Merit: 1001
Be aware that like most internet FX sites, this is a more of a gambling site than a currency trading site. The deposit bonus and this point in their 44 page user agreement proves that pretty clearly:
Quote
24.1.7.  you will not enter into any Transaction for the purposes of arbitrage, scalping or to exploit any temporal and/or minor inaccuracy in any rate or price offered on the Trading Platform; positions held for a short timeframe are considered to be scalping.
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1362
^ It's CFD bitcoin trading so like paper yes.


Hmm... I'm dealing with the software but can't find the BTC/USD to trade with. Do some other people have the same issue ?
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
What kind of bullshit is this? Are they set up to send and receive Bitcoin deposits? Or is this purely "paper Bitcoin?" (i.e. notional). Is everything cash settled or can you withdraw Bitcoins after a purchase?

legendary
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1028
Duelbits.com
Quote
The site is not available from United States

Bosnia neither but that's not surprise, US is.. guess it's only for some private bitcoin island Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 453
Merit: 250
only 4x  Grin 13 would be too cool Smiley
Oh, yeah you're right. I clicked around a bit, must have been on a different page when I looked at the stats.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
They offer a demo account to try-before-you-buy with no risk.
full member
Activity: 131
Merit: 100
only 4x  Grin 13 would be too cool Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 453
Merit: 250
13x leverage on bitcoin! Are these brokers insane?
newbie
Activity: 15
Merit: 0
Online Broker Plus500 now offers a Bitcoin – BTCUSD instrument with shortselling: http://bitcoin-square.com/online-broker-plus500-now-offers-a-bitcoin-btceur-instrument-with-shortselling/

Quote
Lot’s of peope use Plus500 software, most of them are not professionals. This means that not only more and more people will be able to trade Bitcoin to increase the volume, also they might get interested in Bitcoin by the trading platform, even if trading turns out to be nothing for them.

Bitcoin / USD (BTCUSD) CFD, see also: http://www.plus500.com/Instruments/BTCUSD

edit: link added

Jump to: