2013-12-21 BBC Radio 4 - Money box programme

empoweoqwj

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: Peter R on December 25, 2013, 12:44:06 PM

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 25, 2013, 12:32:51 AM

Quote from: Peter R on December 25, 2013, 12:05:43 AM

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 23, 2013, 11:02:35 PM

Governments might well not be able to stop bitcoin. But push anyone into a corner with everything to lose, and you better believe they'll play every trick in the book to get out alive. Expect a bloody battle is all I'm saying.

But "the government" is just a group of individuals. You don't think it's possible that individuals in government--if bitcoin is viewed as a credible threat--would simply purchase enough so they could jump ship should the need arise? In fact, if they "hedge" early enough, they may see a brighter future for themselves and their family should bitcoin win rather than lose, and may therefore use their power to stealthily push the outcome in bitcoin's favour.

Governments don't have "families" ?!?

Individuals have families. Governments are made up of individuals (who look out for the best interests of themselves and their families), and thus they may "hedge" by investing in bitcoin. (Did you even read what I wrote?)

Yes but the original question was about actual governments owning bitcoins as a policy. Not whether any governments had any family members that just happened to own a few coins ......

Peter R

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1010

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 25, 2013, 12:32:51 AM

Quote from: Peter R on December 25, 2013, 12:05:43 AM

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 23, 2013, 11:02:35 PM

Governments might well not be able to stop bitcoin. But push anyone into a corner with everything to lose, and you better believe they'll play every trick in the book to get out alive. Expect a bloody battle is all I'm saying.

But "the government" is just a group of individuals. You don't think it's possible that individuals in government--if bitcoin is viewed as a credible threat--would simply purchase enough so they could jump ship should the need arise? In fact, if they "hedge" early enough, they may see a brighter future for themselves and their family should bitcoin win rather than lose, and may therefore use their power to stealthily push the outcome in bitcoin's favour.

Governments don't have "families" ?!?

Individuals have families. Governments are made up of individuals (who look out for the best interests of themselves and their families), and thus they may "hedge" by investing in bitcoin. (Did you even read what I wrote?)

empoweoqwj

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: Peter R on December 25, 2013, 12:05:43 AM

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 23, 2013, 11:02:35 PM

Governments might well not be able to stop bitcoin. But push anyone into a corner with everything to lose, and you better believe they'll play every trick in the book to get out alive. Expect a bloody battle is all I'm saying.

But "the government" is just a group of individuals. You don't think it's possible that individuals in government--if bitcoin is viewed as a credible threat--would simply purchase enough so they could jump ship should the need arise? In fact, if they "hedge" early enough, they may see a brighter future for themselves and their family should bitcoin win rather than lose, and may therefore use their power to stealthily push the outcome in bitcoin's favour.

Governments don't have "families" ?!?

Peter R

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1010

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 23, 2013, 11:02:35 PM

Governments might well not be able to stop bitcoin. But push anyone into a corner with everything to lose, and you better believe they'll play every trick in the book to get out alive. Expect a bloody battle is all I'm saying.

But "the government" is just a group of individuals. You don't think it's possible that individuals in government--if bitcoin is viewed as a credible threat--would simply purchase enough so they could jump ship should the need arise? In fact, if they "hedge" early enough, they may see a brighter future for themselves and their family should bitcoin win rather than lose, and may therefore use their power to stealthily push the outcome in bitcoin's favour.

empoweoqwj

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: hilariousandco on December 24, 2013, 09:48:30 AM

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 24, 2013, 09:31:01 AM

Quote from: hilariousandco on December 24, 2013, 07:50:34 AM

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 21, 2013, 10:12:30 PM

Quote from: uhoh on December 21, 2013, 10:37:43 AM

Strange understanding of Bitcoin, but interesting all the same.

What i found more interesting was the piece after about people getting duped into filing their tax returns on a third party website. Makes you realise that if people can't even spot that they're tapping all their tax details into a third party site, it's gonna take a long time for Bitcoin to take hold of the non-tech generation!

I mean http://hmrc.gov.uk vs http://www.taxreturngateway.com/

Seriously!

There's a lot of "older generation" that don't really understand what a URL / domain name is even, its not really that surprising they can be duped so easily. Just sad.

Yeah, I cringed when my grandparents were trying to set up their internet and internet banking etc. They have no clue at all, even though it's nice to see them try I can easily see them being scammed, but at least their bank should have them covered unlike Bitcoin. Hopefully they'll be the last generation of technophobes though.

That's right. But unfortunately everyone is being scammed with bitcoins at the moment, via one way or another. We can have all the technological understanding in the world but if, let's say, an online wallet provider, Trade Fortress cough cough, gets "hacked", everyone is f****

I've been ok so far, but I know the paranoia is still occasionally there.

I find the easiest way to stay safe is to not own any coins

hilariousandco

global moderator

Activity: 4046

Merit: 2732

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 24, 2013, 09:31:01 AM

Quote from: hilariousandco on December 24, 2013, 07:50:34 AM

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 21, 2013, 10:12:30 PM

Quote from: uhoh on December 21, 2013, 10:37:43 AM

Strange understanding of Bitcoin, but interesting all the same.

What i found more interesting was the piece after about people getting duped into filing their tax returns on a third party website. Makes you realise that if people can't even spot that they're tapping all their tax details into a third party site, it's gonna take a long time for Bitcoin to take hold of the non-tech generation!

I mean http://hmrc.gov.uk vs http://www.taxreturngateway.com/

Seriously!

There's a lot of "older generation" that don't really understand what a URL / domain name is even, its not really that surprising they can be duped so easily. Just sad.

Yeah, I cringed when my grandparents were trying to set up their internet and internet banking etc. They have no clue at all, even though it's nice to see them try I can easily see them being scammed, but at least their bank should have them covered unlike Bitcoin. Hopefully they'll be the last generation of technophobes though.

That's right. But unfortunately everyone is being scammed with bitcoins at the moment, via one way or another. We can have all the technological understanding in the world but if, let's say, an online wallet provider, Trade Fortress cough cough, gets "hacked", everyone is f****

I've been ok so far, but I know the paranoia is still occasionally there.

empoweoqwj

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: hilariousandco on December 24, 2013, 07:50:34 AM

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 21, 2013, 10:12:30 PM

Quote from: uhoh on December 21, 2013, 10:37:43 AM

Strange understanding of Bitcoin, but interesting all the same.

What i found more interesting was the piece after about people getting duped into filing their tax returns on a third party website. Makes you realise that if people can't even spot that they're tapping all their tax details into a third party site, it's gonna take a long time for Bitcoin to take hold of the non-tech generation!

I mean http://hmrc.gov.uk vs http://www.taxreturngateway.com/

Seriously!

There's a lot of "older generation" that don't really understand what a URL / domain name is even, its not really that surprising they can be duped so easily. Just sad.

Yeah, I cringed when my grandparents were trying to set up their internet and internet banking etc. They have no clue at all, even though it's nice to see them try I can easily see them being scammed, but at least their bank should have them covered unlike Bitcoin. Hopefully they'll be the last generation of technophobes though.

That's right. But unfortunately everyone is being scammed with bitcoins at the moment, via one way or another. We can have all the technological understanding in the world but if, let's say, an online wallet provider, Trade Fortress cough cough, gets "hacked", everyone is f****

hilariousandco

global moderator

Activity: 4046

Merit: 2732

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Quote from: empoweoqwj on December 21, 2013, 10:12:30 PM

Quote from: uhoh on December 21, 2013, 10:37:43 AM

Strange understanding of Bitcoin, but interesting all the same.

What i found more interesting was the piece after about people getting duped into filing their tax returns on a third party website. Makes you realise that if people can't even spot that they're tapping all their tax details into a third party site, it's gonna take a long time for Bitcoin to take hold of the non-tech generation!

I mean http://hmrc.gov.uk vs http://www.taxreturngateway.com/

Seriously!

There's a lot of "older generation" that don't really understand what a URL / domain name is even, its not really that surprising they can be duped so easily. Just sad.

Yeah, I cringed when my grandparents were trying to set up their internet and internet banking etc. They have no clue at all, even though it's nice to see them try I can easily see them being scammed, but at least their bank should have them covered unlike Bitcoin. Hopefully they'll be the last generation of technophobes though.

empoweoqwj

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: TraderTimm on December 23, 2013, 02:12:45 PM

Quote from: solex on December 23, 2013, 05:38:49 AM

Another clueless "professor" who understands little about currency and far less about payment systems. No wonder governments are bankrupt when they pay salaries and pensions to such total airheads.

This is one of the reasons I like Bitcoin.

It doesn't matter if they destroy Bitcoin 1.0, 2.0 or 3.0 - the idea is out there, proven to work on a global scale at a given transaction rate (which isn't trivial, all things considered) and hasn't been actively stomped out of existence for four years. That's an impressive bit of technology.

So, the massive glacier that is the Bitcoin protocol is advancing, and there's nothing they can do to stop it or a variation of it from proliferating and thriving. Its going to keep inexorably grinding on until all of their objections, regulations, laws and bans are pulverized to irrelevance.

And it is the only hope for the world, because of this property. Old networks need to be purged and power-broker connections disrupted to allow advancement, and Bitcoin is a catalyst for that kind of change. It is one of the few bright spots since 2008 cratered the world's economies.

I don't even care about the fiat valuation - just the fact these greedy bastards can't use their "influence" and "power" to corrupt it. Granted, dirty tricks will be attempted, but I'd like to think we can push through such things.

Governments might well not be able to stop bitcoin. But push anyone into a corner with everything to lose, and you better believe they'll play every trick in the book to get out alive. Expect a bloody battle is all I'm saying.

Carlton Banks

legendary

Activity: 3430

Merit: 3083

Quote from: TraderTimm on December 23, 2013, 02:12:45 PM

It doesn't matter if they destroy Bitcoin 1.0, 2.0 or 3.0 - the idea is out there, proven to work on a global scale at a given transaction rate (which isn't trivial, all things considered) and hasn't been actively stomped out of existence for four years. That's an impressive bit of technology.

So, the massive glacier that is the Bitcoin protocol is advancing, and there's nothing they can do to stop it or a variation of it from proliferating and thriving. Its going to keep inexorably grinding on until all of their objections, regulations, laws and bans are pulverized to irrelevance.

This design for recording information and creating contractual relationships between the records it keeps is too much for the current model of governance to withstand. There is no viable direct attack on Satoshi's model, it's been open for all to scrutinise for nearly 5 years now. And bitcoin is only the simplest invocation of the model, but the one that cuts right to the heart of power structures of today's establishment. And it will not be the last distributed trustless system of proof.

We will eventually end up choosing governance ourselves, by voting for the type of systems we want to use, simply through using one and not soem alternative. We're performing an early experiment of such a democracy right now in our overwhelming choice of bitcoin and not any of the altcoins. In the end, there'll be nothing left for government to do, no functions for them to perform.

TraderTimm

legendary

Activity: 2408

Merit: 1121

Quote from: solex on December 23, 2013, 05:38:49 AM

Another clueless "professor" who understands little about currency and far less about payment systems. No wonder governments are bankrupt when they pay salaries and pensions to such total airheads.

This is one of the reasons I like Bitcoin.

It doesn't matter if they destroy Bitcoin 1.0, 2.0 or 3.0 - the idea is out there, proven to work on a global scale at a given transaction rate (which isn't trivial, all things considered) and hasn't been actively stomped out of existence for four years. That's an impressive bit of technology.

So, the massive glacier that is the Bitcoin protocol is advancing, and there's nothing they can do to stop it or a variation of it from proliferating and thriving. Its going to keep inexorably grinding on until all of their objections, regulations, laws and bans are pulverized to irrelevance.

And it is the only hope for the world, because of this property. Old networks need to be purged and power-broker connections disrupted to allow advancement, and Bitcoin is a catalyst for that kind of change. It is one of the few bright spots since 2008 cratered the world's economies.

I don't even care about the fiat valuation - just the fact these greedy bastards can't use their "influence" and "power" to corrupt it. Granted, dirty tricks will be attempted, but I'd like to think we can push through such things.

empoweoqwj

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: solex on December 23, 2013, 05:38:49 AM

Another clueless "professor" who understands little about currency and far less about payment systems. No wonder governments are bankrupt when they pay salaries and pensions to such total airheads.

They would be bankrupt but special "rules" apply to them i.e. they get to choose the rules. Get the country into massive debt and have no plan to ever pay it off, just want another term in government .... sigh

solex

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1006

100 satoshis -> ISO code

Another clueless "professor" who understands little about currency and far less about payment systems. No wonder governments are bankrupt when they pay salaries and pensions to such total airheads.

empoweoqwj

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: uhoh on December 21, 2013, 10:37:43 AM

Strange understanding of Bitcoin, but interesting all the same.

What i found more interesting was the piece after about people getting duped into filing their tax returns on a third party website. Makes you realise that if people can't even spot that they're tapping all their tax details into a third party site, it's gonna take a long time for Bitcoin to take hold of the non-tech generation!

I mean http://hmrc.gov.uk vs http://www.taxreturngateway.com/

Seriously!

There's a lot of "older generation" that don't really understand what a URL / domain name is even, its not really that surprising they can be duped so easily. Just sad.

uhoh

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Circle gets the Square

Strange understanding of Bitcoin, but interesting all the same.

What i found more interesting was the piece after about people getting duped into filing their tax returns on a third party website. Makes you realise that if people can't even spot that they're tapping all their tax details into a third party site, it's gonna take a long time for Bitcoin to take hold of the non-tech generation!

I mean http://hmrc.gov.uk vs http://www.taxreturngateway.com/

Seriously!

kiko

sr. member

Activity: 453

Merit: 250

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03m3j72/Money_Box_Byebye_to_Bitcoin_Genderblender_insurance_Worlds_most_expensive_moneybox/

Quote

Forget metal, paper and plastic is the future of currency virtual? Bitcoin is the oldest and best known of these virtual payment systems that are outside the banking system and free from state control or backing. That leaves the currency open to wild market fluctuations rising like a rocket then falling like a stick. So is virtuality the future of currency? Or is Bitcoin about to bite the dust? A Money Box listener and bitcoin enthusiast debates the pros and cons with a critic.

The guests were a man who invested a portion of his pension lump sum into bitcoin, and Irish economics lecturer Stephen Kinsella.

Topic: 2013-12-21 BBC Radio 4 - Money box programme (Read 2424 times)