[2014-03-25] USA Today - IRS: Bitcoin is not currency

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on March 29, 2014, 03:47:08 PM

But, but but ...

Federal Judge Rules Bitcoin is a currency ...

http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/07/bitcoin-clampdown-continues-as-federal-judge-says-its-a-currency/

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A federal judge in Texas has declared that Bitcoin is a currency and should therefore be regulated just like U.S. dollars

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The only limitation of Bitcoin is that it is limited to those places that accept it as currency. However, it can also be exchanged for conventional currencies, such as the U.S. dollar, Euro, Yen, and Yuan. Therefore, Bitcoin is a currency or form of money, and investors wishing to invest in BTCST provided an investment of money.

This a Federal court ruling. It seems pretty well spelled out ... someone must be smoking the SR products at the IRS?

They're incredibly inept. Most IRS workers look like they shop for groceries at WalMart: Big, Fat dumbasses with the emotional maturity of 10 year olds.

marcus_of_augustus

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But, but but ...

Federal Judge Rules Bitcoin is a currency ...

http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/07/bitcoin-clampdown-continues-as-federal-judge-says-its-a-currency/

Quote

A federal judge in Texas has declared that Bitcoin is a currency and should therefore be regulated just like U.S. dollars

Quote

The only limitation of Bitcoin is that it is limited to those places that accept it as currency. However, it can also be exchanged for conventional currencies, such as the U.S. dollar, Euro, Yen, and Yuan. Therefore, Bitcoin is a currency or form of money, and investors wishing to invest in BTCST provided an investment of money.

This a Federal court ruling. It seems pretty well spelled out ... someone must be smoking the SR products at the IRS?

bitbouillion

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Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on March 26, 2014, 12:53:29 AM

Quote from: fryarminer on March 25, 2014, 08:53:58 PM

Sounds reasonable. Gold isn't a currency either is it?
Seems rather complicated to report for taxes though.

I think you'll find gold and silver referred to as the only "lawful money", as per the Constitution.

Try to pay taxes in gold or silver.

blackvoice

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Quote from: Korbman on March 25, 2014, 05:31:12 PM

USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/03/25/irs-says-bitcoin-is-property/6873569/

IRS Guidance: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/03/25/irs-answers-on-bitcoin-tax-guidance/6874925/

great news

with the government admit

virtual currency community will grow up fast and strong

Leogheo

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I feel myself stupid as I used to think it is something like a currency not a property ! and now i am confused with the US government decision

segeln

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Sign in a Petition:(US citizens only)
AMEND IRS NOTICE 2014-2Taxing virtual currency/bitcoin as property stifles new technology&creates untenable requirements
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/amend-irs-notice-2014-2taxing-virtual-currencybitcoin-property-stifles-new-technologycreates/z7WtKZGY

iamahappyminer

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Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on March 26, 2014, 12:53:29 AM

Quote from: fryarminer on March 25, 2014, 08:53:58 PM

Sounds reasonable. Gold isn't a currency either is it?
Seems rather complicated to report for taxes though.

I think you'll find gold and silver referred to as the only "lawful money", as per the Constitution.

The current fiat money is nothing and that's why I love btc as is it close to gold it's decentalized and noone is able to mine a lot of coins ! So I can understand why bitcoin is not a currency - as it is more than it

Bit_Happy

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Quote from: Kosta# on March 27, 2014, 11:59:38 PM

Quote from: Bit_Happy on March 25, 2014, 07:35:59 PM

....The fair market value would be calculated as the U.S. dollar value on the date payment was received.
^^^^
The fair market value should be based on what you sell them for (actual income) ....
EDIT: This could be great when BTC goes up, and really bad when BTC goes way down.

but then if you sell property for less than you paid for it, the loss should be tax-deductible, is it not?

Correct.
Somehow I misread it.....
A simple way to pay taxes on actual fiat income would be nice.

PCUser

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Quote from: Kosta# on March 27, 2014, 11:59:38 PM

Quote from: Bit_Happy on March 25, 2014, 07:35:59 PM

....The fair market value would be calculated as the U.S. dollar value on the date payment was received.
^^^^
The fair market value should be based on what you sell them for (actual income) ....
EDIT: This could be great when BTC goes up, and really bad when BTC goes way down.

but then if you sell property for less than you paid for it, the loss should be tax-deductible, is it not?

Good question! I think they haven't thought about it as I have understand in case you sell property for less than you pay the same tax so you loose, and if you sell it higher than you win and pay less

Kosta#

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Quote from: Bit_Happy on March 25, 2014, 07:35:59 PM

....The fair market value would be calculated as the U.S. dollar value on the date payment was received.
^^^^
The fair market value should be based on what you sell them for (actual income) ....
EDIT: This could be great when BTC goes up, and really bad when BTC goes way down.

but then if you sell property for less than you paid for it, the loss should be tax-deductible, is it not?

marcus_of_augustus

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Quote from: howardb on March 27, 2014, 03:54:50 PM

Quote from: aigeezer on March 26, 2014, 12:18:09 PM

The story: "The federal government will tax digital money such as Bitcoin".

The rest is peripheral, no matter how shiny.

Can they do it? Can they tax global entities? Can they tax mathematics? Can they tax abstractions? Can they tax global mathematical abstractions in their little corner of the world?

Time will tell.

Of course they can tax it, simply passing a law requiring all bitcoin wallet addresses of US citizens and corporations to be declared for tax purposes would suffice. How many people then choose to avoid tax by not declaring is another question all together, but I suspect most would rather not risk prison, and 'most' is all you need.

So will that be Litecoin wallets also? Namecoin, peercoin, primecoin ... really?

howardb

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Quote from: aigeezer on March 26, 2014, 12:18:09 PM

The story: "The federal government will tax digital money such as Bitcoin".

The rest is peripheral, no matter how shiny.

Can they do it? Can they tax global entities? Can they tax mathematics? Can they tax abstractions? Can they tax global mathematical abstractions in their little corner of the world?

Time will tell.

Of course they can tax it, simply passing a law requiring all bitcoin wallet addresses of US citizens and corporations to be declared for tax purposes would suffice. How many people then choose to avoid tax by not declaring is another question all together, but I suspect most would rather not risk prison, and 'most' is all you need.

aigeezer

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Cryptanalyst castrated by his government, 1952

The story: "The federal government will tax digital money such as Bitcoin".

The rest is peripheral, no matter how shiny.

Can they do it? Can they tax global entities? Can they tax mathematics? Can they tax abstractions? Can they tax global mathematical abstractions in their little corner of the world?

Time will tell.

howardb

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Not to intelligent IMHO, they have set themselves up for a forced future U turn as whether it is legal tender or not will be irrelevant if defacto most people in the world come to use it at some future date.
The comparison with gold is not really valid, as you cannot carry out trade with gold (normally anyway).

marcus_of_augustus

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Quote from: fryarminer on March 25, 2014, 08:53:58 PM

Sounds reasonable. Gold isn't a currency either is it?
Seems rather complicated to report for taxes though.

I think you'll find gold and silver referred to as the only "lawful money", as per the Constitution.

fryarminer

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Sounds reasonable. Gold isn't a currency either is it?
Seems rather complicated to report for taxes though.

Bit_Happy

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The federal government will tax digital money such as Bitcoin like property, not currency, the IRS said Tuesday in its first significant guidance on the virtual coin.

Although Bitcoin may operate like coin and paper currency and can be used to pay for goods and services, no country accepts it as "legal tender," the Internal Revenue Service said in its notice.

"Virtual currency is treated as property for U.S. federal tax purposes," the notice said. "General tax principles that apply to property transactions apply to transactions using virtual currency."

....The fair market value would be calculated as the U.S. dollar value on the date payment was received.

^^^^
The fair market value should be based on what you sell them for (actual income) ....
EDIT: This could be great when BTC goes up, and really bad when BTC goes way down.

LiteCoinGuy

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