[2014-04-02]Ross Ulbricht Lawyer Wants Case Dismissed, ‘Bitcoin is Not Currency’

hilariousandco

global moderator

Activity: 4032

Merit: 2731

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 03, 2014, 12:26:03 AM

Quote from: hilariousandco on April 02, 2014, 12:47:05 PM

So you can launder money though diamonds and jewels and they can't touch you because it's not money? You still have to launder the coins for cash which I'm sure is what he was doing. There's bound to be laundering going on somewhere along the chain.

Yes. It is safe to assume that the DPR converted at least some of his 180,000+ BTCs to fiat.

Yeah, plus even if he did manage to weasel out of this charge, he's basically admitting guilt to everything else.

Onews1990

full member

Activity: 362

Merit: 100

Might be a smart concept but he wouldn't go away with it, as the drug trafficking and enabling that is a crime on it's own I guess.

bryant.coleman

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 1217

Quote from: hilariousandco on April 02, 2014, 12:47:05 PM

So you can launder money though diamonds and jewels and they can't touch you because it's not money? You still have to launder the coins for cash which I'm sure is what he was doing. There's bound to be laundering going on somewhere along the chain.

Yes. It is safe to assume that the DPR converted at least some of his 180,000+ BTCs to fiat.

Rygon

hero member

Activity: 520

Merit: 500

Quote from: odolvlobo on April 02, 2014, 12:59:51 PM

Quote from: Rygon on April 02, 2014, 12:32:32 PM

From what I understand, for it to be money laundering, you must be laundering money. But, according to the IRS, bitcoin is not money, therefore if cannot be laundered. The only folks that could be clearly accused of money laundering in the Silk Road case would be currency exchanges if they knowingly traded fiat for bitcoins with folks who were buying or selling illegal drugs.

I'm assume that there is a difference in the legal definitions of "money" and "currency", and IRS regulations apply to taxes and not necessarily to areas of the law. Anyway, your proposed defense was already shot down in the Trendon Shavers ponzi scheme trial.

That's true, the IRS has it's own definitions, regardless of the law. I was under the impression that Trendon Shavers was using that defense to avoid the charge of security fraud. I don't know if he was found guilty of money laundering or not. However, in his case, there was a lot of transactions between USD and bitcoin in order to hide what he was doing.

odolvlobo

legendary

Activity: 4522

Merit: 3426

Quote from: Rygon on April 02, 2014, 12:32:32 PM

From what I understand, for it to be money laundering, you must be laundering money. But, according to the IRS, bitcoin is not money, therefore if cannot be laundered. The only folks that could be clearly accused of money laundering in the Silk Road case would be currency exchanges if they knowingly traded fiat for bitcoins with folks who were buying or selling illegal drugs.

I assume that there is a difference in the legal definitions of "money" and "currency", and IRS regulations apply to taxes and not necessarily to areas of the law. Anyway, your proposed defense was already shot down in the Trendon Shavers ponzi scheme trial.

hilariousandco

global moderator

Activity: 4032

Merit: 2731

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Quote from: Rygon on April 02, 2014, 12:32:32 PM

Quote from: hilariousandco on April 02, 2014, 11:19:24 AM

Quote from: Rygon on April 02, 2014, 10:45:34 AM

Quote from: hilariousandco on April 02, 2014, 10:24:41 AM

Quote from: Ripdon007 on April 02, 2014, 09:31:51 AM

is this lawyer clever or what? lol Cool

https://coinreport.net/ross-ulbricht-bitcoin-lawyer/

Not really. You can launder money through potatoes if you wanted. That's not gonna stop them prosecuting you.

It could stop them from prosecuting you for money laundering. From the Cornell Law site:

"Money laundering refers to a financial transaction scheme that aims to conceal the identity, source, and destination of illicitly-obtained money."

That would be a tough argument to make, in a fair court at least, lol. There's certainly enough drug charges to send him to jail though, lol.

Tax evasion could still be brought up also.

Yes, but wasn't he laundering the Bitcoins for cash? I don't image he's been surviving all this time exclusively on Bitcoins.

From what I understand, for it to be money laundering, you must be laundering money. But, according to the IRS, bitcoin is not money, therefore if cannot be laundered. The only folks that could be clearly accused of money laundering in the Silk Road case would be currency exchanges if they knowingly traded fiat for bitcoins with folks who were buying or selling illegal drugs.

So you can launder money though diamonds and jewels and they can't touch you because it's not money? You still have to launder the coins for cash which I'm sure is what he was doing. There's bound to be laundering going on somewhere along the chain.

Rygon

hero member

Activity: 520

Merit: 500

Quote from: hilariousandco on April 02, 2014, 11:19:24 AM

Quote from: Rygon on April 02, 2014, 10:45:34 AM

Quote from: hilariousandco on April 02, 2014, 10:24:41 AM

Quote from: Ripdon007 on April 02, 2014, 09:31:51 AM

is this lawyer clever or what? lol Cool

https://coinreport.net/ross-ulbricht-bitcoin-lawyer/

Not really. You can launder money through potatoes if you wanted. That's not gonna stop them prosecuting you.

It could stop them from prosecuting you for money laundering. From the Cornell Law site:

"Money laundering refers to a financial transaction scheme that aims to conceal the identity, source, and destination of illicitly-obtained money."

That would be a tough argument to make, in a fair court at least, lol. There's certainly enough drug charges to send him to jail though, lol.

Tax evasion could still be brought up also.

Yes, but wasn't he laundering the Bitcoins for cash? I don't image he's been surviving all this time exclusively on Bitcoins.

From what I understand, for it to be money laundering, you must be laundering money. But, according to the IRS, bitcoin is not money, therefore if cannot be laundered. The only folks that could be clearly accused of money laundering in the Silk Road case would be currency exchanges if they knowingly traded fiat for bitcoins with folks who were buying or selling illegal drugs.

hilariousandco

global moderator

Activity: 4032

Merit: 2731

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Quote from: Rygon on April 02, 2014, 10:45:34 AM

Quote from: hilariousandco on April 02, 2014, 10:24:41 AM

Quote from: Ripdon007 on April 02, 2014, 09:31:51 AM

is this lawyer clever or what? lol Cool

https://coinreport.net/ross-ulbricht-bitcoin-lawyer/

Not really. You can launder money through potatoes if you wanted. That's not gonna stop them prosecuting you.

It could stop them from prosecuting you for money laundering. From the Cornell Law site:

"Money laundering refers to a financial transaction scheme that aims to conceal the identity, source, and destination of illicitly-obtained money."

That would be a tough argument to make, in a fair court at least, lol. There's certainly enough drug charges to send him to jail though, lol.

Tax evasion could still be brought up also.

Yes, but wasn't he laundering the Bitcoins for cash? I don't image he's been surviving all this time exclusively on Bitcoins.

2dogs

legendary

Activity: 1267

Merit: 1000

More details, link to pdf motion:

http://www.wired.com/2014/04/threatlevel_0401_silkroad_motion/

Rygon

hero member

Activity: 520

Merit: 500

Quote from: hilariousandco on April 02, 2014, 10:24:41 AM

Quote from: Ripdon007 on April 02, 2014, 09:31:51 AM

is this lawyer clever or what? lol Cool

https://coinreport.net/ross-ulbricht-bitcoin-lawyer/

Not really. You can launder money through potatoes if you wanted. That's not gonna stop them prosecuting you.

It could stop them from prosecuting you for money laundering. From the Cornell Law site:

"Money laundering refers to a financial transaction scheme that aims to conceal the identity, source, and destination of illicitly-obtained money."

That would be a tough argument to make, in a fair court at least, lol. There's certainly enough drug charges to send him to jail though, lol.

Tax evasion could still be brought up also.

bryant.coleman

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 1217

Quote from: 2dogs on April 02, 2014, 10:42:10 AM

Agree, great defense argument!

May be. But even using your property for the sale of drugs is a punishable offence in the US.

2dogs

legendary

Activity: 1267

Merit: 1000

Agree, great defense argument!

hilariousandco

global moderator

Activity: 4032

Merit: 2731

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Quote from: Ripdon007 on April 02, 2014, 09:31:51 AM

is this lawyer clever or what? lol Cool

https://coinreport.net/ross-ulbricht-bitcoin-lawyer/

Not really. You can launder money through potatoes if you wanted. That's not gonna stop them prosecuting you.

zeetubes

sr. member

Activity: 371

Merit: 250

Fucking brilliant. If bitcoins are considered property, I wonder if a US bank will give me a mortgage to purchase some.

Ripdon007

full member

Activity: 280

Merit: 100

is this lawyer clever or what? lol Cool

https://coinreport.net/ross-ulbricht-bitcoin-lawyer/

Topic: [2014-04-02]Ross Ulbricht Lawyer Wants Case Dismissed, ‘Bitcoin is Not Currency’ (Read 754 times)