[2017-03-09] Bitmain (Antpool) will refund mistaken 2.5 Bitcoin fee

lukew

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Quote from: xhomerx10 on March 09, 2017, 04:12:42 PM

Miners should be able to easily detect erroneously high fees in the same way they detect transactions with too low a fee and also reject them outright. There is no philosophical argument required.

I posted something similar in the other thread. Nodes should check that fees don't exceed the average of the last 10 blocks highest fees. If it's significantly higher, send a return message back asking for confirmation of the fee. Nothing to do with miners as it is on a node level, and in theory, a mistaken fee shouldn't enter the network beyond the first node it reaches, which would hold it and require a signed message from the sender to confirm it is correct.

I'm not too clued up on the core protocol, I use nbitcoin and BitcoinLib for making transactions and sending them off to the network through my testnet node, so not sure if it's possible without changes to the nodes and wallets.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: xhomerx10 on March 10, 2017, 01:38:11 PM

Private sector is made up of people; people like you and I in fact.

In China, the larger your "private" company is, the more direct and overt interference you will end up with from the PRC government. They don't infiltrate businesses in subtle/clever ways like in the West, or outright strongarm you like in a despotic Middle Eastern regime. It's the law in China that enterprises of set sizes are subject to progressive levels of hands-on, close government supervision, sort of like an honest form of despotism.

In relation to the Chinese Bitcoin industry, make of that what you will.

xhomerx10

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Quote from: Iranus on March 10, 2017, 12:02:24 PM

Quote from: xhomerx10 on March 09, 2017, 04:12:42 PM

Miners should be able to easily detect erroneously high fees in the same way they detect transactions with too low a fee and also reject them outright. There is no philosophical argument required.

True, but due to the nature of the private sector this is unlikely to actually happen. As long as we use a currency which is trying to be decentralised and manages its transactions through rewards, many miners (especially the smaller ones) will continue to take these fees for themselves.

I don't even believe that Bitmain would have returned the fees if they didn't expect the miner to make the error public and potentially damage their image.

Private sector is made up of people; people like you and I in fact. The decisions come.down to people like you and I. I own a private company and I provide a service which I let people try free of charge before they commit to purchase it for a speified term. Even if people have paid for my service, I give refunds on request every time no matter when they ask even though I lose the transaction fees. My money is where my mouth is and I practise what I preach.

Iranus

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Quote from: xhomerx10 on March 09, 2017, 04:12:42 PM

Miners should be able to easily detect erroneously high fees in the same way they detect transactions with too low a fee and also reject them outright. There is no philosophical argument required.

True, but due to the nature of the private sector this is unlikely to actually happen. As long as we use a currency which is trying to be decentralised and manages its transactions through rewards, many miners (especially the smaller ones) will continue to take these fees for themselves.

I don't even believe that Bitmain would have returned the fees if they didn't expect the miner to make the error public and potentially damage their image.

cpfreeplz

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Quote from: xhomerx10 on March 09, 2017, 04:12:42 PM

Miners should be able to easily detect erroneously high fees in the same way they detect transactions with too low a fee and also reject them outright. There is no philosophical argument required.

Nah, then someone else would mine it and possibly keep it. If you know in the end you'll do the right thing you should definitely take it and if they come to you asking for it give it back. As a large mining pool I think this is pretty much expected, otherwise they have a terrible business and I would never use them! That's like a bank accepting a $3000 fee then not refunding it when the customer says they made a mistake.

xhomerx10

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Quote from: richardsNY on March 09, 2017, 04:34:20 PM

Quote from: xhomerx10 on March 09, 2017, 04:12:42 PM

Miners should be able to easily detect erroneously high fees in the same way they detect transactions with too low a fee and also reject them outright. There is no philosophical argument required.

In a fair and perfect world you might be right, but we all know that miners nowadays just look at how much they can generate, and thus will not reject such extreme fee transactions. I remember that a few people (back when Bitcoin wasn't near as much worth as is the case right now) have made similar mistakes, where after that the pool that mined that block returned every satoshi. But that was years ago and doesn't fit in the same category as the one in OP does.

Nobody can be perfect, but we can all be fair. The world need not be fair nor perfect in order to implement a simple and useful change. We just have to know who to ask and how to phrase the question.

richardsNY

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Quote from: xhomerx10 on March 09, 2017, 04:12:42 PM

Miners should be able to easily detect erroneously high fees in the same way they detect transactions with too low a fee and also reject them outright. There is no philosophical argument required.

In a fair and perfect world you might be right, but we all know that miners nowadays just look at how much they can generate, and thus will not reject such extreme fee transactions. I remember that a few people (back when Bitcoin wasn't near as much worth as is the case right now) have made similar mistakes, where after that the pool that mined that block returned every satoshi. But that was years ago and doesn't fit in the same category as the one in OP does.

xhomerx10

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Miners should be able to easily detect erroneously high fees in the same way they detect transactions with too low a fee and also reject them outright. There is no philosophical argument required.

richardsNY

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Quote from: TheAlgorithm on March 09, 2017, 02:40:26 PM

It's great that he got his Bitcoin back, but it's basically just a PR stunt from Bitmain - notice how they felt that they needed to mention how generous they are by pointing out how they didn't need to do it.

That. It doesn't come genuinely from their heart. It just doesn't make any sense for whatever pool to refund people for their mistaken fees. It's basically you losing nearly $3000 worth of coins because some one else messed up big time. Other than that, I am of course happy that this person got compensated for what is, his stupidity. I wonder what would happen if it wasn't 2.5 BTC, but more something in the range of 50 BTC. Would they still compensate him considering the same situation where the fees are being paid out to miners connected to this pool? I don't think so.

TheAlgorithm

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It's great that he got his Bitcoin back, but it's basically just a PR stunt from Bitmain - notice how they felt that they needed to mention how generous they are by pointing out how they didn't need to do it.

xhomerx10

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Bitcoin user Voiceeeeee, undoubtedly an alt due to this rather embarrassing predicament, unwittingly added a 2.5 BTC fee to a transaction which was mined by AntPool in block 456363. Even though the fees had already been dispersed to the miners and they have no responsibility to do so, Bitmain has decided to compensate the user for the loss out of their own coffers as a gesture of goodwill to the Bitcoin community.

reply from Bitmain support request:

Dear Customer,

We are sorry to hear this and sincerely appreciate your warmhearted.

First of all, this mistake caused by himself, and we don't have responsibility for this. And since now, Antpool has taken PPS+ and PPLNS+ payment method, so his 2.5 bitcoin transaction fee has already paid out to all the miners in Antpool. But thanks for all of your supports and unconditional trust for Antpool and Bitmain, our company has decided to pay his loss.

Looking forward to continuing to build your trust and bringing you more added values through our advanced technology and passion.

Best Wishes,
Hugh
Bitmain

Topic: [2017-03-09] Bitmain (Antpool) will refund mistaken 2.5 Bitcoin fee (Read 488 times)