[2018-05-24] Bloomberg - US launches price manipulation probe

gentlemand

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Quote from: darkangel11 on May 24, 2018, 07:09:46 PM

Firstly, the exchanges located outside of the US could ignore them as they don't have to abide US law. The US government seems to think that if you provide services and a US citizen comes to you and buys something, you immediately become responsible under US law, but it's not how things work. How would they force a company to hand anything over? Send a seal team in a chopper to get the files?

Secondly, the exchange could simply print the whole database and send them a shipping container with a million pages of orders, just for fun. They'd comply with the order in their own way and prank the greedy IRS.

Anyone with a financial interest or interaction anywhere brushes up against US influence eventually. It's impossible to avoid. Even if you totally blew them off, you'd be pretty suicidal to actively provoke them. Their job is to unearth reasons to go after you no matter where you are.

As for SEALS drilling you as you bought your frappucino in Kuala Lumpur, never say never.

darkangel11

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Quote from: gentlemand on May 24, 2018, 05:34:33 AM

Quote from: buwaytress on May 24, 2018, 05:28:51 AM

Yeah, even if they wanted to, they wouldn't have the expertise they would need in blockchain analysis... Nor the context of crypto exchanges to understand how things happen. Might end up relying on the mountains of evidence anonymous/pseudonymous users have gathered over the years on Spoofy et al.

You wouldn't need blockchain analysis since it all takes place on exchange databases. You'd just force exchanges to hand those over.

Even then how do you differentiate between the intentions of different orders? If you were under their thumb you'd simply say that spoofy order of yours was pulled because you suddenly had to pay for your uncle's sex change.

Firstly, the exchanges located outside of the US could ignore them as they don't have to abide US law. The US government seems to think that if you provide services and a US citizen comes to you and buys something, you immediately become responsible under US law, but it's not how things work. How would they force a company to hand anything over? Send a seal team in a chopper to get the files?

Secondly, the exchange could simply print the whole database and send them a shipping container with a million pages of orders, just for fun. They'd comply with the order in their own way and prank the greedy IRS.

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Quote from: gentlemand on May 24, 2018, 05:34:33 AM

Even then how do you differentiate between the intentions of different orders? If you were under their thumb you'd simply say that spoofy order of yours was pulled because you suddenly had to pay for your uncle's sex change.

It's impossible. It's nothing more than a showoff to make clear they are guarding the market and operate strictly to protect you, the investor/trader. Standard bla bla that isn't worth anything. If they already can't properly watch/guard traditional markets, how will they ever be able to do that with the brutal crypto market?

The crypto market consists largely of retail traders, all with emotions overflowing. They gain zero benefit from taking actions against you. They are likely just preparing themselves for the institutions that are slowly but surely entering the market. In that regard they can monitor activity in a far better way, and in case they cross the line, the authorities can actually make them pay for it.

Result in the end is that whales toying around will become more creative and find less obvious ways to manipulate the market, but with the exact same effect.

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Quote from: buwaytress on May 24, 2018, 05:28:51 AM

Yeah, even if they wanted to, they wouldn't have the expertise they would need in blockchain analysis... Nor the context of crypto exchanges to understand how things happen. Might end up relying on the mountains of evidence anonymous/pseudonymous users have gathered over the years on Spoofy et al.

You wouldn't need blockchain analysis since it all takes place on exchange databases. You'd just force exchanges to hand those over.

Even then how do you differentiate between the intentions of different orders? If you were under their thumb you'd simply say that spoofy order of yours was pulled because you suddenly had to pay for your uncle's sex change.

buwaytress

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Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Yeah, even if they wanted to, they wouldn't have the expertise they would need in blockchain analysis... Nor the context of crypto exchanges to understand how things happen. Might end up relying on the mountains of evidence anonymous/pseudonymous users have gathered over the years on Spoofy et al.

But to what ends, I do wonder. Like you said, how will they go after these guys? Extradition requests? Made on which grounds?

gentlemand

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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-24/bitcoin-manipulation-is-said-to-be-focus-of-u-s-criminal-probe

The justice department in association with the CTFC is launching an investigation into Bitcoin price manipulation and all the jolliness such as spoofing and wash trading that comes with it.

I didn't know that a US judge recently ruled BTC can or is regulated like a commodity - http://fortune.com/2018/03/07/bitcoin-cftc-commodities-coin-drop-markets/

Since most of it takes place a billion miles from their jurisdiction how will they do anything even if they find something?

It's bleeding obvious all of this takes place and much worse. Can't see how they'll ever stop it.

Topic: [2018-05-24] Bloomberg - US launches price manipulation probe (Read 122 times)