[2018-07-31] Vitalik Buterin Thinks There Is Too Much Fuss About Bitcoin ETFs

guybrushthreepwood

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Quote from: buwaytress on July 31, 2018, 01:59:51 AM

This guy's never been someone I really looked up to, but yeah, at least he's been getting wiser with age. His comments this year have generally been quite well informed, much unlike the other frequent commentators. There IS too much ETF fuss, it's like all the unnecessary hype being built around their approval or rejection, decisions that will totally not affect the rest of us (and as I mentioned in other threads over the last few days, actually don't explain themselves properly with institutional investors).

I'm always a believer of every day use and adoption. That's what'll make Bitcoin great(er).

I think it's just people's desperation on wanting some sort of 'big news' that is going to ignite everyone's interest again and see rapid price spikes. If the ETF does happen then it will get bitcoin back in the news even if it's only fleeting which is always good. I'm also skeptical of how much of an effect an ETF will have on bitcoin price long term though, especially the Winklevii one. People can already invest in bitcoin if they want without putting money into an ETF, but even if that one did get the go-ahead wont the twins just be using coins from their already huge bitcoin stash as opposed to buying new ones off the market? Wouldn't really make sense for them to buy new ones at current market price when they can just off load some of their own that they bought at a steal and if that was the case all it will mean is more fiat money goes into the ETF as opposed to driving the demand of bitcoin up. An ETF will still be good news in the grand scheme of things though and is one more step into mainstream adoption I guess.

TraderTimm

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Money Skeletor Vitalik should be worrying more about his imploding appCoin.

But I'm sure he couldn't help himself, since he's got a ego fed by all his followers -- "I must say something about this!!"

No dude, try to fix your non-scaling altcoin.

1Referee

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Quote from: darkangel11 on August 02, 2018, 03:38:51 PM

Is this frustration talking because the recent BTC pump has sucked some more value from ETH?

Partly.

The fundamental reason for his frustration is that with an ETF Bitcoin will attract so much capital, that the gap between Ether and Bitcoin will become too large to overcome. Ether will probably never get an ETF approved by the SEC with how its internal ecosystem is mainly being used for fraudulent purposes.

I'm quite sure that most of the Ether sellers are projects dumping what they raised during their ICO stage. It was bound to happen and will get even worse. Don't forget that EOS has billions $$$ worth of Ether and they likely are cashing out slowly. With how ICO's are losing traction, there will be less buyers for Ether and the price as result falls. I wouldn't touch it right now. It will dip below 0.05BTC this month.

richardsNY

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on August 02, 2018, 10:27:23 AM

I'd say "they could and would".

Let's put it like this: the most corrupt business on the planet, synonymous with risk taking, won't do something corrupt to take a risk on a new, innovative and unprecedentedly profitable asset class? Don't believe it. Even without evidence, I think it's safe to say that large financial firms are finding a way to buy & trade cryptocurrency, all other previous evidence suggests they could and would.

Them trading the asset doesn't mean they will buy every coin in existence, which isn't even possible and poses too much of a risk with Satoshi's coins being a very important factor to take into consideration, and then we have Mark Karpeles with who knows how many coins. There are too many old hands in the game to buy up the market, because all it does is grant old hands the best possible price to finally dump their coins.

darkangel11

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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

Quote from: Carlton Banks on August 02, 2018, 10:27:23 AM

Quote from: richardsNY on July 31, 2018, 04:49:31 PM

Quote from: Kprawn on July 31, 2018, 11:20:53 AM

These guys will surely come in and buy up all the coins in circulation and then nobody would be able to use bitcoins as a currency. Tongue

They won't and they can't.

I'd say "they could and would".

Let's put it like this: the most corrupt business on the planet, synonymous with risk taking, won't do something corrupt to take a risk on a new, innovative and unprecedentedly profitable asset class? Don't believe it. Even without evidence, I think it's safe to say that large financial firms are finding a way to buy & trade cryptocurrency, all other previous evidence suggests they could and would.

As for Vitalik: major lol. He's basically saying "I'm a fraud". Because no ICO's == no Ethereum use-case, no Ethereum use-case == no Etheruem purpose, no Ethereum purpose == why are we listening to this guy?

He just has to be doing a fuss because his precious ETH is going down in value like a rock. It lost so much value that I'm starting to consider buying it.
Is this frustration talking because the recent BTC pump has sucked some more value from ETH?
I agree with him though. We don't need ETH and people are jumping in because they want some free money. Quick profit and "so long suckers". Sadly that's why most people are here. To make a quick buck and buy a lambo and ETF approval can mean a rally.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: richardsNY on July 31, 2018, 04:49:31 PM

Quote from: Kprawn on July 31, 2018, 11:20:53 AM

These guys will surely come in and buy up all the coins in circulation and then nobody would be able to use bitcoins as a currency. Tongue

They won't and they can't.

I'd say "they could and would".

Let's put it like this: the most corrupt business on the planet, synonymous with risk taking, won't do something corrupt to take a risk on a new, innovative and unprecedentedly profitable asset class? Don't believe it. Even without evidence, I think it's safe to say that large financial firms are finding a way to buy & trade cryptocurrency, all other previous evidence suggests they could and would.

As for Vitalik: major lol. He's basically saying "I'm a fraud". Because no ICO's == no Ethereum use-case, no Ethereum use-case == no Etheruem purpose, no Ethereum purpose == why are we listening to this guy?

cryptofonia

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There is too much fuss about Vitalik Buterin who in ONLY one of the founders of ETH.

FXTradingPro

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Yes, it is important that we have adoption and the addition of the ETF will be beneficial in so many ways. One of these ETFs will eventually get approved and that will be the point not only will institutions be participants but also the general public as well. Yes it is true we get overly focused on news like the ETF rejection but acceptance is important. A recent poll said that only 2% of Americans are invested in BTC and 75% feel that it is a high-risk investment. Like it or not those numbers must improve for both adoption and market acceptance.

entrepmind23

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Quote from: 1Referee on July 31, 2018, 04:47:25 AM

Crypto is great internet money, but horrible local money, unless you live in a country where there is no proper infrastructure.

Most of the older generations have no idea about cryptocurrency because in the first place, they do not use internet, which is what is needed to use it. It is more exposed to younger generations but then the younger ones are just starting to earn so it is quite hard to introduce it to people because most would just have a negative reaction about it.

Quote from: dunfida on July 31, 2018, 05:00:16 PM

When we do dissect piece by piece then we cant really compare centralized ones to decentralized. About the topic I agree on what do Vitalik do said this time about too much Fuss about ETF but this is really definitely a good thing for additional exposure or adoption but as expected big players will always have the advantage.

I agree with Vitalik's statement about focusing on mass adoption than ETF but then ETF would be a great exposure for bitcoin because when its price goes up, it would appear in the news and then the ordinary people would be able to watch it and then maybe consider investing in it because they can see a good investment opportunity.

dunfida

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Quote from: 1Referee on July 31, 2018, 04:47:25 AM

Crypto is great internet money, but horrible local money, unless you live in a country where there is no proper infrastructure.

Theres no argumentation on this part yet it would really just still remain to be an internet money and wont be considered to compete with fiat on where some people do push it out.
When we do dissect piece by piece then we cant really compare centralized ones to decentralized. About the topic I agree on what do Vitalik do said this time about too much Fuss about ETF but this is really definitely a good thing for additional exposure or adoption but as expected big players will always have the advantage.

richardsNY

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Quote from: Kprawn on July 31, 2018, 11:20:53 AM

These guys will surely come in and buy up all the coins in circulation and then nobody would be able to use bitcoins as a currency. Tongue

They won't and they can't. In order to do that they need to empty every possible exchange and buy up the price to insane levels, which they obviously aren't going to do. The larger institutions aren't going to send one single penny to our currently incompetent exchanges. The only way to get them on board is to have other institutions operate the exchanges and custody. On top of that, institutions aren't stupid -- they know that there are very large holders with the ability to absolutely crash the market. Satoshi is the obvious number 1 threat with his ~1 million coins. If even 1 BTC moves from one of his early addresses, the whole market will tank.

Kprawn

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The Bitcoin ETFs will be more destructive than what most people would even anticipate. Andreas once mentioned in one of his

videos how a hedge fund managers made a billion dollar transaction with the one hand and eating a sandwich with the other,

as if it was nothing. Shocked

These guys will surely come in and buy up all the coins in circulation and then nobody would be able to

use bitcoins as a currency. Tongue

prehisto

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Your Data Belongs To You

I agree, the mass adoption is much more important than ETF.
ETF though can potentially give the market a much bigger and faster push to the BULL side but in the bigger picture, it has not much importance.

ghermghuda

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Oh yeah, and he's right. It seems we are getting much worried about this rather than focusing on te mainstream adoption of crypto. Crypto need to be adopted for usage by the common people not just traders. We need to make people see the value of Bitcoin.

Harlot

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We can't be the ones to be at fault here. All the fuss created with the ETFs is the creation of news creators connecting some news bits into the supposedly rise and fall of cryptocurrencies and most of the weak hands will believe the first news they will see about the trend. Yes there is no doubt that it is affecting the market right now even though there is no clear connection to us regular traders and investors but the influence of the news has the same effect on the prices in the market.

1Referee

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Let's get real here, as long as Bitcoin or any other crypto currency can't compete with fiat head to head on a local level, why should people (the mass) not caring about decentralization use it as currency?

Fiat locally;

Instant payments.
No transaction costs involved for the buyer.
Insurance over products you buy.

Crypto locally (only negative points);

Volatility.
Transaction costs involved.
You have to buy back every coin that you spent in order to not lose out on increases.
No insurance over products you buy.
Your payment may not go through without a confirmation (especially if you included a lower fee).

Crypto is great internet money, but horrible local money, unless you live in a country where there is no proper infrastructure.

Kemarit

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I really don't care about all this fuss. Its just giving false hope to new investors to FOMO but then will be disappointed at the end because of the rejections. I was initially stoked specially the ETF by VanEck SolidX application by I later realized that it might be a good thing after-all. I'm pretty sure that the rules will be changed again by the big boys and it became more of a investments rather than a payment method originally vision by Satoshi. With or without ETF, bitcoin can and will survived.

BitHodler

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I hope that the SEC keeps rejecting all the ETFs throughout the years. Yes, the price will go down but if the increase in price is solely related to an ETF then we simply don't deserve that growth.

Institutional adoption happens way too fast, which is great for those interested in the price alone, but not for those interested in actual usage taking place. We'll see where it goes from here but I'm not convinced.

If we today for the first time would have reached an all time high of $3000 we wouldn't see any of the current craze and mainstream media hyping. $20,000 should have been reached somewhere in 2020 or later.

buwaytress

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Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

This guy's never been someone I really looked up to, but yeah, at least he's been getting wiser with age. His comments this year have generally been quite well informed, much unlike the other frequent commentators. There IS too much ETF fuss, it's like all the unnecessary hype being built around their approval or rejection, decisions that will totally not affect the rest of us (and as I mentioned in other threads over the last few days, actually don't explain themselves properly with institutional investors).

I'm always a believer of every day use and adoption. That's what'll make Bitcoin great(er).

bbc.reporter

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I reckon this is only 1 of the very few things that Vitalik said that I agree to as a humble follower of the cryptospace.

ETFs make bitcoin more accessible only to the institutional investors, but not the common people. If real adoption was the plan, then wouldn't it be more preferable to make bitcoin more accessible to the common people through other methods?

I am not fully convinced in Vitalik's idea of cryptocards but there must be other ways.

Vitalik Buterin took it to Twitter to finally weight in on the recent EFT rejection which was, arguably, the biggest news of the previous week. While he does not deny the importance of crypto ETFs, he believes that there is too much hype surrounding this issue and offers a different mainstream adoption solution.

SEC’s decision to reject Winklevoss brothers’ application suddenly made many crypto enthusiasts feel lost and bearish. However, Buterin didn’t seem to be excessively bothered by that. The Ethereum co-founder proposes preloaded crypto card as a more effective way of popularizing crypto.

Buterin’s tweet provoked a heated discussing that generated hundreds of replies. Some users were skeptical whether the preloaded cards would be able to push crypto adoption to a new level by replacing traditional currencies. While other individuals are certain that Buterin is too dismissive about ETFs, as both ETFs and crypto cards are equally important for the industry

Read in full https://cryptocomes.com/vitalik-buterin-thinks-there-is-too-much-fuss-about-bitcoin-etfs-makes-emphasis-on-crypto-cards

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