[2019-01-05]Thousands of Banned Binance Customers Remain Cut off by the Exchange

Lucius

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Quote from: stompix on January 09, 2019, 11:32:04 AM

That...or it might be the case of some crappy journalism as that article links as proof of the ban a Reddit thread....common!

I've had a discussion with one of my friend who is Romanian (and living in Romania) and his binance account is not frozen, his xrp and eth (yeah, facepalm!!!) are still intact and out of pure curiosity, he executed a trade (worth a few $) and all went ok.

And as far as I can see there are no talks on the first few pages about binance in the ro section.

You seem to be right about Romania, some users posted that news on Reddit/Twitter, but probably it is about individual ban and not blocking the whole country which proves the example of your friend.

It is strange to see Binance block some countries, but there is nothing users from that countries can do except to wait for the situation in their country change for the better, or to start use some other exchange. Unfortunately for some users centralized exchanges must abide by the law, and it is much easier for them to exclude whole country then individual users.

deisik

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Quote from: CryptoBry on January 10, 2019, 02:14:55 AM

Quote from: gentlemand on January 06, 2019, 02:24:40 PM

The world needs at least one exchange that doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything. That used to be BTC-e, but now we know that might have been for a reason. I wonder if anyone else will ever do anything similar.

Daring to go against the embargo imposed by the UN and the USA can be a big suicide. And what happened to BTC-e can be the big lesson for anyone not to try to go against the powers-that-be. As long as an exchange or any entity for that matter is wishing to do business and to stay on the market for as long as possible, then there is that big need to toe the line otherwise things can be wasted and can go down the drain. This is one reality bite we have to accept because cryptocurrency can never live in an island or a bubble

This is not what happened to BTC-e

Quite the contrary, they in fact proved that it is quite possible to go against the powers that be. When the FBI seized their site and proudly showed off by putting their bold eagles on the main page of the exchange, it restarted in a month or so under a different name. What happened next looked more like a scam attempt by the exchange itself or infighting, which led to its collapse, rather than a result of law enforcement agencies' deliberate actions (FBI or whatever)

CryptoBry

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Quote from: gentlemand on January 06, 2019, 02:24:40 PM

The world needs at least one exchange that doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything. That used to be BTC-e, but now we know that might have been for a reason. I wonder if anyone else will ever do anything similar.

Daring to go against the embargo imposed by the UN and the USA can be a big suicide. And what happened to BTC-e can be the big lesson for anyone not to try to go against the powers-that-be. As long as an exchange or any entity for that matter is wishing to do business and to stay on the market for as long as possible, then there is that big need to toe the line otherwise things can be wasted and can go down the drain. This is one reality bite we have to accept because cryptocurrency can never live in an island or a bubble.

stompix

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That...or it might be the case of some crappy journalism as that article links as proof of the ban a Reddit thread....common!

I've had a discussion with one of my friend who is Romanian (and living in Romania) and his binance account is not frozen, his xrp and eth (yeah, facepalm!!!) are still intact and out of pure curiosity, he executed a trade (worth a few $) and all went ok.

And as far as I can see there are no talks on the first few pages about binance in the ro section.

Lucius

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Quote from: squatter on January 07, 2019, 01:35:50 PM

Most sanctions are directed at individuals and entities, not entire countries. That's the case in Russia.

It's too complicated to read what US is target actually when it comes to sanctions against Russia, maybe it is just as you say. But sanction imposed by the EU is more serious, and for some reason Binance is still consider that Russia is not high-risk country in terms of money laundering.

Quote from: stompix on January 08, 2019, 02:21:12 PM

Forget Zimbabwe or Bosnia...
What the hell is Romania doing on that list?

They are still a member of the EU (read some news that they are actually in charge of the EU Council presidency right now) and other than probably ranking number one in corruption it has nothing special to make it worth that list.
Lot's of scammers there? Maybe, but you can't exclude a country on that alone.

They are member of EU, but as you say corruption is their main problem even if they are not on the top of corruption list. By what is posted on Wikipedia, Romania is on 4 place, and more corrupted are Italy, Greece, and Bulgaria.

It is obvious that there are no clear criteria in what way individual countries are excluded, but their main focus is on money laundering and anti-terrorism actions.. So if for some reason Romania is violating some rules they are excluded.

Also from their TOS :

Quote

Prohibition of use

By accessing and using Binance and any of its services, you acknowledge and declare that you are not on any trade or economic sanctions lists, such as the UN Security Council Sanctions list or OFAC (Office of Foreign Assets Control of the U.S. Treasury Department). Binance maintains the right to select its markets and jurisdictions to operate and may restrict or deny its services to certain countries. The content of this Agreement shall not be excluded from the laws of the country under which the user belongs. Binance maintains its stance that prohibited users are not to use or access Binance and any of its services.

Binance Terms of Use

stompix

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Forget Zimbabwe or Bosnia...
What the hell is Romania doing on that list?

Quote from: Lucius on January 07, 2019, 09:56:53 AM

So far we know that these countries are affected : Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Belarus, Romania, Moldova, Myanmar, Macedonia, Iran, Zimbabwe.

They are still a member of the EU (read some news that they are actually in charge of the EU Council presidency right now) and other than probably ranking number one in corruption it has nothing special to make it worth that list.
Lot's of scammers there? Maybe, but you can't exclude a country on that alone.

squatter

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Quote from: Lucius on January 07, 2019, 09:56:53 AM

So far we know that these countries are affected : Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Belarus, Romania, Moldova, Myanmar, Macedonia, Iran, Zimbabwe. Interesting fact is that Russia is not on Binance black list, but it is on U.S. Treasury Department OFAC list. Which means that the same rules of play do not apply to all countries in the same way.

Most sanctions are directed at individuals and entities, not entire countries. That's the case in Russia. There are lots of other countries affected by sanctions -- like Yemen, Venezuela, Somalia, Nicaragua, CAR, etc. -- who aren't included in this "high-risk" category. It's hard to say what sort of criteria Binance is using here.

deisik

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Quote from: veleten on January 06, 2019, 10:45:19 AM

The content of this Agreement shall not be excluded from the laws of the country under which the user belongs

This part is total crap

I have yet to see a country which would renounce a local law in favor of some shitty user agreement. In other words, if the terms of this agreement contradict such a law, they are not valid and cannot be enforced in court. So Binance can write in their ToS whatever they like but if someone decides to sue them, they may not end well in court. Something like that happened to WEX when they were sued in Singapore. Now they are essentially outlaws and the only place they can safely operate is dark web within the onion network

Lucius

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This is actually the old news from November 2018, maybe only new thing in this Binance ban story is Zimbabwe. I think the reason for such actions is the growing pressure from international institutions especially in terms of money laundering and anti-terrorism actions. So if Binance decide that some county is become high-risk category country, or someone else's notice them to exclude a country, they will probably do it.

Quote

We discontinue support for specific countries based on their approach to money laundering and anti-terrorism actions. There are specific international organisations that monitor all regions and provide a report to the public with high-risk countries. If you would like to know more why Serbia was recently included in the list this information is available for the public online. Whenever a country is included in the high-risk category we discontinue supporting that region/country.

So far we know that these countries are affected : Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Belarus, Romania, Moldova, Myanmar, Macedonia, Iran, Zimbabwe. Interesting fact is that Russia is not on Binance black list, but it is on U.S. Treasury Department OFAC list. Which means that the same rules of play do not apply to all countries in the same way.

https://bitsonline.com/binance-closing-down-accounts-europe/

buwaytress

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Funny that it was Binance doing all the hoop jumping just to get away from bans and restrictions, from China to Japan and now to some island jurisdiction. Secondary sanctions and then upcoming AML5 directive in the EU is going to make it very painful to send money to more and more people. I've been seeing the neobanks doing it a lot, followed by exchanges even from May last year. I'm not even on a sanctioned list but already can see some derisking elements happening.

Quote from: squatter on January 06, 2019, 04:39:54 PM

Indeed, it doesn't work well under today's dynamics, where Bitcoin has only a fledgling economy and most trading is done through a limited number of centralized fiat gateways. Decades from now, things might look very different -- blockchains interoperable with Lightning and atomic swaps, DEXs that are actually decentralized, greater liquidity and a more robust ecosystem of local and P2P exchanges, and hopefully a more self-sufficient economy that isn't wholly dependent on fiat gateways.

Decades away... You're probably right and that's my estimate also, but I hope to be proven wrong with how long this will take because I do want a glimpse of it! The multiple networks operating on second layers, a healthy and active base of p2p sending and trading... and a pricing of things in BTC instead of fiat.

squatter

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Quote from: gentlemand on January 06, 2019, 03:55:03 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on January 06, 2019, 03:52:00 PM

I've been telling people here for a while that Bitcoin will not save countries from sanctions, back when this board was flooded with articles about Russia/Iran/Venezuela leaders discussing how they can use crypto to fool the West.

I think it's a subject worth reinvestigating in a decade or two. It's certainly not a goer while things are so closely tied to fiat. It may well be a different matter when tens or hundreds of millions only dip back into fiat to pay their taxes or satisfy bills that refuse crypto.

This is one area that's going to develop until it bears zero resemblance to how it is at present.

Indeed, it doesn't work well under today's dynamics, where Bitcoin has only a fledgling economy and most trading is done through a limited number of centralized fiat gateways. Decades from now, things might look very different -- blockchains interoperable with Lightning and atomic swaps, DEXs that are actually decentralized, greater liquidity and a more robust ecosystem of local and P2P exchanges, and hopefully a more self-sufficient economy that isn't wholly dependent on fiat gateways.

gentlemand

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on January 06, 2019, 03:52:00 PM

I've been telling people here for a while that Bitcoin will not save countries from sanctions, back when this board was flooded with articles about Russia/Iran/Venezuela leaders discussing how they can use crypto to fool the West.

I think it's a subject worth reinvestigating in a decade or two. It's certainly not a goer while things are so closely tied to fiat. It may well be a different matter when tens or hundreds of millions only dip back into fiat to pay their taxes or satisfy bills that refuse crypto.

This is one area that's going to develop until it bears zero resemblance to how it is at present.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: gentlemand on January 06, 2019, 02:24:40 PM

The world needs at least one exchange that doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything. That used to be BTC-e, but now we know that might have been for a reason. I wonder if anyone else will ever do anything similar.

When you get too big, you start attracting attention, and then it's the matter of time till they take you down.

I've been telling people here for a while that Bitcoin will not save countries from sanctions, back when this board was flooded with articles about Russia/Iran/Venezuela leaders discussing how they can use crypto to fool the West.

gentlemand

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The world needs at least one exchange that doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything. That used to be BTC-e, but now we know that might have been for a reason. I wonder if anyone else will ever do anything similar.

squatter

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I don't think they have much choice after OFAC's statements in November. The Treasury Department made clear that cryptocurrency exchanges may be subject to secondary sanctions if they transact with designated individuals. If secondary sanctions were placed on Binance, it would cut them off from the entire US market!

We knew these policies were coming since almost two months ago when Binance explicitly told Iranian customers to withdraw ASAP:

Quote

“If you have an account with Binance and fall into that [sanctions] category, please withdraw your assets from Binance as soon as possible,” reads an email received in recent days by Iranian users, according to several local sources.

veleten

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it should not be any surprise or even news worthy:
read their TOS:
"Prohibition of use

By accessing and using Binance and any of its services, you acknowledge and declare that you are not on any trade or economic sanctions lists, such as the UN Security Council Sanctions list or OFAC (Office of Foreign Assets Control of the U.S. Treasury Department). Binance maintains the right to select its markets and jurisdictions to operate and may restrict or deny its services to certain countries. The content of this Agreement shall not be excluded from the laws of the country under which the user belongs. Binance maintains its stance that prohibited users are not to use or access Binance and any of its services. "

by the way it is not only US imposed sanctions but the UN security council sanctions as well

wrehyeartt

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Binance, the world’s second largest digital asset exchange by traded volume, has withdrawn its services from countries targeted by U.S. economic sanctions, in line with its controversial revised terms of use. However, the ban affects entire populations in countries such as Zimbabwe, where U.S. restrictions are supposed to specifically target individuals and companies.

https://news.bitcoin.com/one-month-on-still-no-access-for-thousands-of-binance-users-controversially-cut-off-by-the-exchange/

Topic: [2019-01-05]Thousands of Banned Binance Customers Remain Cut off by the Exchange (Read 306 times)