[2019-02-18] Tim Draper Predicts Crypto Will Rule, Only Criminals Will Use Cash

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Quote from: Lucius on February 26, 2019, 05:35:40 AM

Edward Snowden revealed some very interesting data about how NSA is working on tracking bitcoin transaction and link them with senders / recipients, and this was back in 2013. It's pretty certain that today NSA (or some other agency) have even more efficient tools for the identification and tracking transactions.

Technology advances, so do their tools to track and link blockchain activity, but I'm certain that their best tools aren't even known to the public yet, and probably won't be for many more years to come. I'm grateful that we have mixers to at least obfuscate some of our taint, which currently is the most we can ask for.

People also tend to underestimate how dangerous it is to claim fork coins, especially when it comes to cold wallets people didn't access for years. I can't even begin to imagine how much they already know about us, while we assume that we're fairly anonymous behind our VPN's or TOR. The main reason we're not getting our ass whooped is because we're not a large enough fish.

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Quote from: BitHodler on February 26, 2019, 02:11:43 AM

I was aware of that one, but the context of the newer statement is completely different. Saying that people will be laughed at for using fiat sounds like someone who's pretty damn bullish on Bitcoin as payment option.

The statement is now different and differently interpreted, but Draper say that because he think (based on available data) that blockchain transaction are much easier to follow, and therefore is easier to identify criminals who use it, so they will continue to use cash. So he just say cash is much harder to track then bitcoin, but bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency will be used more in future.

Edward Snowden revealed some very interesting data about how NSA is working on tracking bitcoin transaction and link them with senders / recipients, and this was back in 2013. It's pretty certain that today NSA (or some other agency) have even more efficient tools for the identification and tracking transactions.

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Quote from: Lucius on February 25, 2019, 06:48:00 AM

It is not first time that he say something like that, it is just repeated with attachment of word "Criminals". I found an article from November 2017 where Tim Draper say :

Quote

"In five years, if you try to use fiat currency they will laugh at you," Draper told me at WebSummit while wearing a tie with cryptocurrency logos on it. "Bitcoin and other cryptocurriences will be so relevant ... there will be no reason to have the fiat currencies."

I was aware of that one, but the context of the newer statement is completely different. Saying that people will be laughed at for using fiat sounds like someone who's pretty damn bullish on Bitcoin as payment option.

Sure, he's maybe overly optimistic here, but saying that fiat will only be used by criminals has a more serious tint to it, and pretty much makes us all a criminal in his book, because no one here will stop using fiat because it works extremely well.

Overall, people use that what's convenient, and there just isn't a way that his most recent statement holds any value at all, very desperate and an attempt to get himself in the media again.

Lucius

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Quote from: BitHodler on February 24, 2019, 10:51:17 AM

I think this is the first time he made a statement like that, which is likely why people went a bit too hard on him.

It is not first time that he say something like that, it is just repeated with attachment of word "Criminals". I found an article from November 2017 where Tim Draper say :

Quote

"In five years, if you try to use fiat currency they will laugh at you," Draper told me at WebSummit while wearing a tie with cryptocurrency logos on it. "Bitcoin and other cryptocurriences will be so relevant ... there will be no reason to have the fiat currencies."

One more time we see how media manipulate with such news when then need to sell the story, actually they need more clicks on their sites because that's the way they make money.

Tim Draper On Bitcoin: 'In 5 Years If You Use Fiat Currency, They Will Laugh At You'(2017)

BitHodler

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 22, 2019, 09:14:04 PM

It appears that Tim Draper has learned some things from bitcoin's forum cave trolls hehehe.

Unfortunately, that's not a good thing. Cheesy

I think this is the first time he made a statement like that, which is likely why people went a bit too hard on him. It shows that even the wealthiest entities in this industry are pretty normal and some times overly anti state.

At least he has been very consistent with his price targets throughout the years, which can't be said about the far majority of the so called experts and multi millionaires constantly adjusting their target based on the flow of the market.

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Quote from: Slow death on February 22, 2019, 11:49:04 AM

Here is one of several informal markets that exist in my country:

I've seen the same markets even in parts of rural Eastern Europe, with the same plastic chairs so the gap in adopting technology is sometimes immense even in the western world.

People that talk about radical things happening in 5 years should really think how some other fantasies ended, cause I still can't buy a flying car or a jetpack, I still can't take a moving walkway to work, still no drones delivering my package (funny how it's five years from the test), still can't send a smell through my telephone or enjoy a show on the smellevision Tongue

.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on February 24, 2019, 07:12:47 AM

Why would any crypto enthusiast attack cash? Cash and cryptocurrencies are like brothers, they have more in common than in difference.

I know, right? Does seem slightly perverse. I use cash wherever possible. Credit/Debit Cards just give more power and influence to the banks. Why should a bunch of reckless gambling addicts who destroyed the global economy be trusted to monitor our every move while profiting from our actions? It's bizarre how people are just prepared to accept that as normal, somehow. It's bad enough with the various governments around the world fully engaged in the "war on cash" so the banksters can forever be the middleman for every single financial transaction ever. We don't need to bolster that by contributing to it ourselves. I think people would eventually realise their mistake if we ever found ourselves in a world that no longer had cash in it. But it would be too late, then.

Don't attack physical cash. Anything is better than relying on a bunch of shady banksters.

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on February 24, 2019, 07:12:47 AM

It's especially strange to hear "cash will be used by criminals", because that's the same argument nocoiners say about crypto. So what that cash is physical, it's actually a good think because digital technology will always have limitations.

I don't know why we can't just all settle on the view that "all forms of money/wealth/currency/etc will be used by criminals" and just leave it at that, heh.

hatshepsut93

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Why would any crypto enthusiast attack cash? Cash and cryptocurrencies are like brothers, they have more in common than in difference. It's especially strange to hear "cash will be used by criminals", because that's the same argument nocoiners say about crypto. So what that cash is physical, it's actually a good think because digital technology will always have limitations.

BLAST2MARS

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This statement is true. When the media says that crypto and bitcoin is widely on darkweb and sort of illegal things, they are just trying to cover the big truth which is fiat is the best way for criminals to do it. They are just shifting the blame in crypto when all along, the laundering and terrorism are all triumphant thanks to fiat.

bbc.reporter

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It appears that Tim Draper has learned some things from bitcoin's forum cave trolls hehehe.

Slow death

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Here is one of several informal markets that exist in my country:

I believe that even if it was 6 years from now, still these merchants would not be accepting bitcoin as a means of payments ... Countries like mine that are very poor still need to invest a lot in technology, even if by some miracle in my country someday of these legalized bitcoin, we still need to invest a lot in technology so we can use bitcoin as a means of payment in all markets, stores, schools, pay bills for water, electricity and TV.

btyco

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bitcoin is bitcoin no matter where it came from. Although it's not fungible it's still got the same value. criminals will be using fiat and monero, the rest of us will enjoy bitcoin

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Quote from: gentlemand on February 21, 2019, 06:49:50 AM

Why should anyone care about the availability of cash in Tajikistan unless they're a native? What counts is your own part of the world. Somewhere in Europe will have totally gotten rid of cash within the next few years.

And look at the speed mobile payments took off in Africa. It's possible certain places may end up cashless before more advanced economies.

Just as Lucius said, not sure to who was he referring, the US, the western world, the entire population?

But I find it ridiculous to say that cryptos will annihilate cahs in 5 years while cards and mobile payments haven't managed to do it in half a century.

And, and this was the fact I wanted to point since you mentioned Europe.
Yeah, Sweden might be ahead of all in this quest for cashless society but at the same time, the "engine" of Europe, Germany lags behind a lot, being surpassed by countries much less developed.

And while this wouldn't matter if we talk about a continent, it would be pretty funny in a Union. Having to go to an ATM once you enter Germany reminds me of the pre-euro times when you had to change your money into marks, franks, liras, and pesetas.

But anyhow, 5 years? Not going to happen!

Quote from: Lucius on February 22, 2019, 08:23:02 AM

Maybe you do not care for Tajikistan, but only for your country, which is a common attitude among people today, but for me is also important that the world develop evenly.

This ain't' going to happen either. Continents are not developing evenly, countries are not developing evenly, towns in a country are not developing evenly, even neighborhoods in the same districts are not doing it.

Oh, and pure coincidence, Tajikistan is indeed a major drug hub, so...

Lucius

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Quote from: gentlemand on February 21, 2019, 06:49:50 AM

Why should anyone care about the availability of cash in Tajikistan unless they're a native? What counts is your own part of the world. Somewhere in Europe will have totally gotten rid of cash within the next few years.

And look at the speed mobile payments took off in Africa. It's possible certain places may end up cashless before more advanced economies.

I'm not sure whether Draper thought that crypto will rule only in USA and Europe, but this does not diminish the fact of the current availability of the Internet in the world. Maybe you do not care for Tajikistan, but only for your country, which is a common attitude among people today, but for me is also important that the world develop evenly. The great migration that exists today is precisely the result of uneven development across the world, and Europe is pay price for that.

Data from end 2017 show that only 35% of the total African population is using Internet, but I know you think on services like M-Pesa who use SMS service for payments, so internet is not required.

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Quote from: magneto on February 21, 2019, 02:15:44 PM

However, there is a high possibility that if bitcoin ever does go mainstream that the usage of cash and precious metals will both significantly decrease, primarily due to the fact that there is a lot of overlaps between the functions of BTC and these other assets, except bitcoin offers more benefits.

Precious metals serve no purpose as day to day currency, so there isn't much to lose for them in this specific case.

Fiat has a stable unit value and 99.9% adoption/acceptance, which Bitcoin will need decades for to match, if ever. In the end, people like choice, regardless of how good a certain form of money is, and we have enough historical evidence that there hasn't ever been one single form of fiat, neither one single financial service.

More competition leads to better products and services, that's what we have seen. If it wasn't the financial system messing up, Bitcoin probably wouldn't exist and decentralization wouldn't be a selling feature. Who needs decentralization when no one is censoring your transactions, or freeze your balance? People need to be reminded of why Bitcoin exists, and that continuously.

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Quote from: tyz on February 18, 2019, 02:36:21 PM

Tim Draper Predicts Crypto Will Rule, Only Criminals Will Use Cash in Five Years

Billionaire investor and known Bitcoin (BTC) bull Tim Draper argued that in five years, only criminals will use fiat as crypto becomes universally widespread. Draper made his claims in an interview with American financial news tv channel Fox Business released on Feb. 18.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/tim-draper-predicts-crypto-will-rule-only-criminals-will-use-cash-in-five-years

It is clever. Just turn the tables. Something like that is called framing.

Let's bookmark this and wait for about five years to see what will happen.I'm sure that crypto won't dominate the world after 5 years.It will dominate probably after 20-30 years.The statement "only criminals will use cash" is totally wrong.If only the criminals are using cash,the value of paper money will crash dramatically.

senin

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No matter what anyone says, and the cash of the states will exist, if not always, then for a very long time. Of course, there are states with a high standard of living, where they may be trying to get rid of cash. However, I see no need for this. I think that cash will always have its niche for circulation, along with other types of means of payment.
The statement that in five years, only criminals will use cash, sounds at least silly.

magneto

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Quote from: tyz on February 18, 2019, 02:36:21 PM

Tim Draper Predicts Crypto Will Rule, Only Criminals Will Use Cash in Five Years

Billionaire investor and known Bitcoin (BTC) bull Tim Draper argued that in five years, only criminals will use fiat as crypto becomes universally widespread. Draper made his claims in an interview with American financial news tv channel Fox Business released on Feb. 18.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/tim-draper-predicts-crypto-will-rule-only-criminals-will-use-cash-in-five-years

It is clever. Just turn the tables. Something like that is called framing.

I don't think that you can attribute criminal activity to a form of currency that otherwise serves a completely legitimate purpose. He is doing the exact same thing that mainstream media is trying to characterise bitcoin with.

However, there is a high possibility that if bitcoin ever does go mainstream that the usage of cash and precious metals will both significantly decrease, primarily due to the fact that there is a lot of overlaps between the functions of BTC and these other assets, except bitcoin offers more benefits.

Though I don't necessarily think that bitcoin will "replace" fiat, whether cash, or electronic versions. They will coexist in one way, or another. Central banks and governments simply won't let this happen.

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Quote from: Lucius on February 21, 2019, 06:20:34 AM

There is another good reason why cash will not go so quickly to oblivion, and it is the global availability of the Internet.

Why should anyone care about the availability of cash in Tajikistan unless they're a native? What counts is your own part of the world. Somewhere in Europe will have totally gotten rid of cash within the next few years.

And look at the speed mobile payments took off in Africa. It's possible certain places may end up cashless before more advanced economies.

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Any particular Idea on how to encash Crypto. I am loosing lot of money so far in Crypto World.

Lucius

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Quote from: gentlemand on February 19, 2019, 10:29:50 AM

I think we underestimate the speed at which cash is going out of fashion. It's pretty darned alarming depending on your country. On top of that they're squeezing cash ever harder in how it interacts with banking.

There is another good reason why cash will not go so quickly to oblivion, and it is the global availability of the Internet. By data posted on Wikipedia, only 55.1 % of world population has internet access, and we can say that almost 50% of people living today can not use any digital currencies. It certainly can not be changed in the next five years, but with the development of new technologies we can expect more and more people to get internet access.

For me it's incredible that 45% people in today's world is living almost in stone age, completely disconnected of everything that is available to us.

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Quote from: tyz on February 18, 2019, 02:36:21 PM

Tim Draper Predicts Crypto Will Rule, Only Criminals Will Use Cash in Five Years

Billionaire investor and known Bitcoin (BTC) bull Tim Draper argued that in five years, only criminals will use fiat as crypto becomes universally widespread. Draper made his claims in an interview with American financial news tv channel Fox Business released on Feb. 18.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/tim-draper-predicts-crypto-will-rule-only-criminals-will-use-cash-in-five-years

It is clever. Just turn the tables. Something like that is called framing.

These statements are public only in order to try and manipulate the crowd. He is somehow right that criminals prefer cash because of anonymity. Even in the bitcoin network, the transactions are traceable but with cash, they aren't.
Five years is a very very short period, the elderly who are not exposed to the internet will still use cash for their daily transactions.

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Quote from: Ozero on February 19, 2019, 12:05:35 AM

Quote from: tyz on February 18, 2019, 02:36:21 PM

Tim Draper Predicts Crypto Will Rule, Only Criminals Will Use Cash in Five Years

Billionaire investor and known Bitcoin (BTC) bull Tim Draper argued that in five years, only criminals will use fiat as crypto becomes universally widespread. Draper made his claims in an interview with American financial news tv channel Fox Business released on Feb. 18.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/tim-draper-predicts-crypto-will-rule-only-criminals-will-use-cash-in-five-years

It is clever. Just turn the tables. Something like that is called framing.

Does he mean that in five years cash will be less traceable than cryptocurrency? It is unlikely that in five years everything will change so much that a cryptocurrency will be more common than cash. In five years, of course, much will change, but not so much. During this time, the state will have to decide on the legalization of cryptocurrency. The status of cryptocurrency in each of the states will be officially determined. However, it is very difficult to say what the result will be. For five years, ordinary people will not switch to the use of cryptocurrency. This, apparently, will never happen. Cryptocurrency will always be used along with the national money of the states, and part of the population will use only cash for now.

I think what he meant was we could expect vast use of cryptocurrency in 5 years time by the masses while cash will be outdated by then (which I doubt) only to be used by criminals. He may be hinting that it would be more anonymous for you to use cash in the future as compared to crypto which may become traceable. Either way, I think its unlikely for only criminals to use cash in the near future because adoption of crypto use will take long. Many will still opt for the use of cash, especially in small countries or economies.

BitHodler

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Quote from: squatter on February 19, 2019, 03:05:17 PM

He's either acting completely delusional or has some other motive for saying things like this.

He just says what most of the get rich quick noobs want to hear, so from that perspective it's a smart move because people really seem to like that statement after all the rehashed Bitcoin is a scam or fraud nonsense.

Repeating the same $250k prediction during the bear market has no longer much effect with how the price keeps tanking. This is quite a desperate attempt to generate publicity, but it works, we're talking about him again.

At least he's actively investing in various startups that are meant to help Bitcoin become more mainstream and less dependent on shitty services that are owned by big blockers only out to work against Bitcoin.

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Haha it's like opposite the situation which has place to be five years ago, criminals used crypto for buying drugs and so on. Now we are kind of in the middle and in five years everything will turn from head to feet. Interesting, but not real.

gentlemand

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Quote from: squatter on February 19, 2019, 03:05:17 PM

It must really depend where you live. I live in the states, and everyone loves cash here.

Oh yeah totally. America will be one of the last developed nations to fall. But in Denmark and Sweden they are likely to have totally exterminated cash within 5-10 years. It's already rejected in the majority of transactions. Cash usage is falling rapidly in the UK but it's going to take a while longer.

squatter

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Quote from: gentlemand on February 19, 2019, 10:29:50 AM

I think we underestimate the speed at which cash is going out of fashion. It's pretty darned alarming depending on your country. On top of that they're squeezing cash ever harder in how it interacts with banking.

It must really depend where you live. I live in the states, and everyone loves cash here. Literally everyone I know always carries some crisp bills in their wallet. All the gas stations list different cash and credit prices on their signage. A couple of my local restaurants only accept cash. There's also a huge food truck / food cart industry here and those are mostly cash only. My auto mechanic knocks 3% off my invoice when I pay him cash. And with so many undocumented immigrants here and also big grey markets like cannabis and hemp production, that adds huge demand for a cash economy. There are also things like laundromats, street vending, nail salons, etc. that are predominantly cash businesses.

I've also noticed that people here are becoming increasingly skeptical that service workers are receiving tips via apps and credit cards. There is a big culture of tipping service workers in cash for that reason.

Draper lives in California so he shouldn't be ignorant to this stuff. He's either acting completely delusional or has some other motive for saying things like this.

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Quote from: bhadz on February 19, 2019, 05:13:46 AM

Cash is less traceable if it won't go through any bank or third party agencies. Sort of hand to hand cash payment.

Cash is an anonymous way to pay. But no less than some private blockchain-based technology. Thus, Tim Draper can relate his statement only to traceable blockchain transactions.

gentlemand

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Quote from: Lucius on February 19, 2019, 07:13:10 AM

I do not agree with Draper that only criminals will use cash in five years, simple for a reason that five years is too short time period that the majority of financial transactions is switch to cryptocurrency. People just are not ready to accept such a challenge, especially as bitcoin as a decentralized currency what is something quite different from what exist in the world of finance for hundreds of years.

I think we underestimate the speed at which cash is going out of fashion. It's pretty darned alarming depending on your country. On top of that they're squeezing cash ever harder in how it interacts with banking.

There may come a time sooner than we think where having tens of thousands of Euros in cash is a liability rather than an asset, let alone hundreds of thousands or millions.

Lucius

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I do not agree with Draper that only criminals will use cash in five years, simple for a reason that five years is too short time period that the majority of financial transactions is switch to cryptocurrency. People just are not ready to accept such a challenge, especially as bitcoin as a decentralized currency what is something quite different from what exist in the world of finance for hundreds of years.

Tim Draper is a smart man, and I personally appreciate his thoughts regarding cryptocurrency, so even if he say something like this it does not diminish all the good things he did for cryptocurrency over the past years. They all laughed to him back in 2014 about his prediction "10 000$ in next 3 years", and when he bought 30 000 bitcoin when price was around 600$, and we see now that he was right and that he has a nose for business.

1Referee

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I will continue to use fiat, regardless of where Bitcoin stands in terms of adoption in the forthcoming decades. It's so convenient to have different forms of money work for you whenever you want, where one day Bitcoin is the better option to go for, and the next day it might be fiat.

I don't understand how people trash something they pay attention to the most. People pretend that Bitcoin will be the bomb, but all they care about is the fiat value to go up so they can cash out to fiat. If people were really so anti fiat, they wouldn't whine about the current bear market. Fiat is what matters here, and will continue to do so in the future, let's see things how they are. Roll Eyes

DooMAD

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I don't know why people set themselves up to fail like this. We live in an age of unprecedented record keeping. Someone is going to dig up this quote in 5 years and throw it back at him if he isn't right.

Quote from: elda34b on February 18, 2019, 11:49:33 PM

I don't know why news like this keep being made though, is there no more important news that can be shared except prediction from some guy?

Not in the quantity that they'd like, no. There's always going to be "filler" material about which vaguely recognisable person said what.

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His prediction and statement is timely. We all knew it that in the future crypto will rule and it's just getting started today. And what he is trying to do now is encouraging people and telling "get in" before that day comes.

Quote from: Ozero on February 19, 2019, 12:05:35 AM

Does he mean that in five years cash will be less traceable than cryptocurrency?

Cash is less traceable if it won't go through any bank or third party agencies. Sort of hand to hand cash payment.

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Quote from: tyz on February 18, 2019, 02:36:21 PM

Tim Draper Predicts Crypto Will Rule, Only Criminals Will Use Cash in Five Years

Billionaire investor and known Bitcoin (BTC) bull Tim Draper argued that in five years, only criminals will use fiat as crypto becomes universally widespread. Draper made his claims in an interview with American financial news tv channel Fox Business released on Feb. 18.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/tim-draper-predicts-crypto-will-rule-only-criminals-will-use-cash-in-five-years

It is clever. Just turn the tables. Something like that is called framing.

Well, this is good entertainment for all bitcoin holders and lovers. Who would refuse a very positive and upbeat prediction like that but we who are the wise can be raising our eyebrows. Though I have to disagree why fiat has to be relegated to the use of the criminals when ordinary guys like you and me are still using them and I don't think fiat money can completely disappear into the future...though the use of the digital counterparts can really be increasing. We have to remember that as a global society we are into niches...one thing may decrease in popularity and use but certainly there will always be people and situations where fiats can still be called on. But then again...let's just consume what Draper can be saying and sleep tonight with some bull runs coming.

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Quote from: tyz on February 18, 2019, 02:36:21 PM

Tim Draper Predicts Crypto Will Rule, Only Criminals Will Use Cash in Five Years

Billionaire investor and known Bitcoin (BTC) bull Tim Draper argued that in five years, only criminals will use fiat as crypto becomes universally widespread. Draper made his claims in an interview with American financial news tv channel Fox Business released on Feb. 18.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/tim-draper-predicts-crypto-will-rule-only-criminals-will-use-cash-in-five-years

It is clever. Just turn the tables. Something like that is called framing.

Does he mean that in five years cash will be less traceable than cryptocurrency? It is unlikely that in five years everything will change so much that a cryptocurrency will be more common than cash. In five years, of course, much will change, but not so much. During this time, the state will have to decide on the legalization of cryptocurrency. The status of cryptocurrency in each of the states will be officially determined. However, it is very difficult to say what the result will be. For five years, ordinary people will not switch to the use of cryptocurrency. This, apparently, will never happen. Cryptocurrency will always be used along with the national money of the states, and part of the population will use only cash for now.

elda34b

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Another ridiculous, baseless and weak prediction. Too much generalization and too much assumption that is far from reality. I don't know why news like this keep being made though, is there no more important news that can be shared except prediction from some guy?

Cointelegraph should know better which kind of news is important, which one is laughable.

squatter

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I don't mind Draper, but this statement is ridiculous. Non-criminals have very legitimate reasons to use cash. Some merchants offer lower prices for cash payment (vs. credit cards) so it can be cheaper to use. There are no fees to spend cash, so again, it's cheaper to use. Not to mention, cash is much more private than most cryptocurrencies.

And in 5 years, no less? Give me some of what he's smoking, please.

Carlton Banks

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Tim Draper knowingly bought stolen Bitcoin to get into the market, so that's a bit of a questionable statement

tyz

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Tim Draper Predicts Crypto Will Rule, Only Criminals Will Use Cash in Five Years

Billionaire investor and known Bitcoin (BTC) bull Tim Draper argued that in five years, only criminals will use fiat as crypto becomes universally widespread. Draper made his claims in an interview with American financial news tv channel Fox Business released on Feb. 18.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/tim-draper-predicts-crypto-will-rule-only-criminals-will-use-cash-in-five-years

It is clever. Just turn the tables. Something like that is called framing.

Topic: [2019-02-18] Tim Draper Predicts Crypto Will Rule, Only Criminals Will Use Cash (Read 406 times)