[2019-04-13] What Russia’s ‘Digital Iron Curtain’ Means for Bitcoin Users

Argoo

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Quote from: Naida_BR on April 26, 2019, 10:40:57 AM

This measure just promotes censorship.
Russians don't get any benefit from this "Digital Iron Curtain" and they are not protected at all.
The Russian Duma seems that they want to digitally isolate their civilians and don't let them have an open and free access to the digital world.

The Russian government wants to isolate its citizens from undesirable information. They want to introduce global Internet censorship. If you filter the incoming information, it is much easier to manage your people. They are then easy to impose their ideas. It is a pity that in the twenty-first century such a big country with a totalitarian regime appears in us.

Naida_BR

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This measure just promotes censorship.
Russians don't get any benefit from this "Digital Iron Curtain" and they are not protected at all.
The Russian Duma seems that they want to digitally isolate their civilians and don't let them have an open and free access to the digital world.

CryptoBry

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Quote from: Tylev on April 14, 2019, 01:39:14 AM

Quote from: Theb on April 13, 2019, 12:25:15 PM

Quote from: https://www.ccn.com/what-russias-digital-iron-curtain-means-for-bitcoin-users

According to proposed regulations, the government wants to restrict Russian traders to local crypto exchanges and also only allow “qualified” investors – e.g., those with a degree in economics and a certificate from the government – to trade Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

WTF?!?!?!?!?!? With that kind of regulation they are exactly doing the exact opposite of what other countries are doing where they allow their citizens to trade and try to limit money from their financial institutions coming in. Why the hell do you need a degree in economics for before you trade legally when we all know most of the economists out here are close minded when it comes to the crypto market itself. They are setting the motion backwards here and I doubt that there is really a big threat in their country to do such thing.

In today's Russia, in this corrupt country where oligarchic clans rule, there can be no other way. They can also adopt a bill that is in their possession on imposing criminal liability for the use of cryptocurrency by "unqualified" users. I did not expect anything else from the Putin regime. Directly, it is inconvenient for them to completely ban cryptocurrency after Putin and the other top leaders of the country extolled it and in fact introduced the same prohibition in a slightly different way. I'm surprised-Putin has a lie everywhere.

With the kind of regime that Russia has, this development is not quite surprising. The Putin government wants all the advantages of this industry but at the same time it wants total control of everything and everybody...a sad story in the modern world we are in. However, I am sure that even if we are to discount the Russian and Chinese market, the world of cryptocurrency can still survive and even be much better without these demagogues. I am wishing that soon things can get better with these countries but since the people are very much supporting them then we better set our eyes so afar.

magneto

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I really don't think that it's going to do much at all.

It will certainly hinder on the convenience, and if they were going to make this move then potentially they are planning on driving out certain bitcoin third party service providers as well, which would lead to a decrease in the numbers of formally registered bitcoin related businesses within that area. But apart from that, individual use shouldn't really matter that much.

Unless they come out with something never seen before and extremely innovative, that is. But we have certainly seen similar stuff from the PRC where the effects didn't really discourage people from using bitcoin at all.

Spaffin

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Quote from: LeGaulois on April 19, 2019, 02:02:08 PM

Quote from: Slow death on April 17, 2019, 09:26:46 PM

if the article tells the truth I do not know, but the political system of russia is a very shady political system and it does not seem to me that russia intends to see bitcoin being adopted en masse in its country, it seems to me that what the Russian government want is greatly reduce the number of people using bitcoin so that the Russian government has more control over the small number of people who use bitcoin in their country. This is something expected of governments that have a shadowy political system, for this kind of government to remain in power is because they control and manipulate their people.

Russia isn't interested to see Bitcoin massively adopted in the country (whatever the reason it has) but the government is interested to use it when it's about to fund its cyber war to interfere in the US. elections (Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election
Do you see the irony? It's like saying Bitcoin isn't good for you, only for me". I am pretty sure there are other countries using Bitcoin too behind the scene.

The Russian government is slowly choosing to completely ignore the rights of its citizens. Moreover, the violation of these rights, as always, is explained by concern for them. I am just surprised that people in Russia are now so intimidated by their government that they almost don’t go to mass protests. They actually take away the right to use the Internet and cryptocurrency, and they are inert. In any other European country, such anti-people actions would mean the political death of their government. It is a pity, of course, that this happens in a country as big as Russia. We are losing this country for the development of cryptocurrency there.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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No, no one in any government has good intentions whenever they create a new policy or a new legislation. It is always in accordance to their own agendas and their backers' agendas. Do you reckon that they rose in power because they care for you hehehe?

It has been reported by Bitcoinist that the "digital assets" law currently being proposed in Russia has come under scruitiny even before it is to be reviewed by regulators in May. Concerns include how it will affect crypto businesses in the country, the fact it may cut off low income investors, and the reality that Russia can only regulate Russia, but crypto is worldwide.

Another concern is that it will drive a divide between basically rich and poor investors. It would demand that unless an investor is "accredited," they can only purchase up to $10,000 worth of crypto. However in order to be accredited, one must possess at least $150,000 worth of assets. It is literally an issue of people being too poor to be allowed to make more money.

Lastly, it has been pointed out that this regulation may be a bit futile, as Russia can only police itself, but crypto markets know no boundaries. In the article, Roman Khoroshev, founder of a Russian crypto crowdlending platform, is quoted:

"Undoubtedly, the central bank and lawmakers have good intentions in imposing restriction on unaccredited investors. It is usually their money that typically ends up in the hands of scammers. But the problem is in controlling this process. It’s almost impossible to track as the bill only proposes to regulate the cryptocurrency market within the Russian jurisdiction."

Read in full https://www.chepicap.com/en/news/9048/russia-s-proposed-regulations-for-crypto-coming-under-fire.html

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: veleten on April 19, 2019, 03:33:23 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 17, 2019, 07:15:19 PM

@veleten. China holds $1.17 trillion in US treasury bonds, while Russia does not hold anything and might also have given up their position as a nuclear super power.

I don't see how would this justify treating any information coming from Russia in a certain biased way
this is not journalism but propaganda
Russia used to have at least 0.11 trillion in US treasury bonds
they sold over 80% in 2018 , not surprisingly
but I wonder how they are going to give up their position as a nuclear superpower if they hold the top 2 nuclear arsenal in the world
and if we compare the quality of their ICBM to the US ones , they are way newer and better
read this:
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/putin-boasts-he-has-new-game-changer-weapons-and-the-us-agrees/news-story/c86903568de25b633b5f51313806805b

It does not change the reason why China can get away from doing some things and remain America's biggest trading partner, similar to what veleten said. The reason is clearly because China owns America hehehe.

@LeGaulois. Agreed! Money laundering. They also want that right and ability only for themselves, not for everyone.

LeGaulois

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Quote from: Slow death on April 17, 2019, 09:26:46 PM

if the article tells the truth I do not know, but the political system of russia is a very shady political system and it does not seem to me that russia intends to see bitcoin being adopted en masse in its country, it seems to me that what the Russian government want is greatly reduce the number of people using bitcoin so that the Russian government has more control over the small number of people who use bitcoin in their country. This is something expected of governments that have a shadowy political system, for this kind of government to remain in power is because they control and manipulate their people.

Russia isn't interested to see Bitcoin massively adopted in the country (whatever the reason it has) but the government is interested to use it when it's about to fund its cyber war to interfere in the US. elections (Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election
Do you see the irony? It's like saying Bitcoin isn't good for you, only for me". I am pretty sure there are other countries using Bitcoin too behind the scene.

veleten

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 17, 2019, 07:15:19 PM

@veleten. China holds $1.17 trillion in US treasury bonds, while Russia does not hold anything and might also have given up their position as a nuclear super power.

I don't see how would this justify treating any information coming from Russia in a certain biased way
this is not journalism but propaganda
Russia used to have at least 0.11 trillion in US treasury bonds
they sold over 80% in 2018 , not surprisingly
but I wonder how they are going to give up their position as a nuclear superpower if they hold the top 2 nuclear arsenal in the world
and if we compare the quality of their ICBM to the US ones , they are way newer and better
read this:
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/putin-boasts-he-has-new-game-changer-weapons-and-the-us-agrees/news-story/c86903568de25b633b5f51313806805b

bbc.reporter

legendary

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Quote from: Slow death on April 17, 2019, 09:26:46 PM

if the article tells the truth I do not know, but the political system of russia is a very shady political system and it does not seem to me that russia intends to see bitcoin being adopted en masse in its country, it seems to me that what the Russian government want is greatly reduce the number of people using bitcoin so that the Russian government has more control over the small number of people who use bitcoin in their country. This is something expected of governments that have a shadowy political system, for this kind of government to remain in power is because they control and manipulate their people.

However, can the Russian government enforce any ban or enforce any strict regulations created on bitcoin? What would stop me if I use a VPN, Tor, proxies and bitcoin?

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 17, 2019, 07:15:19 PM

@veleten. China holds $1.17 trillion in US treasury bonds, while Russia does not hold anything and might also have given up their position as a nuclear super power.

Russia doesn't want to sponsor the debt of the United States and therefore they sold the treasury bonds and purchased gold bars instead. And the Russian nuclear weapons are much more potent than what the US has. On top of that, Russia has the most powerful ICBMs.

senin

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Quote from: Slow death on April 17, 2019, 09:26:46 PM

if the article tells the truth I do not know, but the political system of russia is a very shady political system and it does not seem to me that russia intends to see bitcoin being adopted en masse in its country, it seems to me that what the Russian government want is greatly reduce the number of people using bitcoin so that the Russian government has more control over the small number of people who use bitcoin in their country. This is something expected of governments that have a shadowy political system, for this kind of government to remain in power is because they control and manipulate their people.

Indeed, the Russian government has long wanted to limit the use of cryptocurrency in its country. More precisely, it wants to completely deprive the right to use the cryptocurrency of an ordinary person. Cryptocurrency can only be used by politically trustworthy persons or those close to the ruling elite. This, of course, is very sad. However, after the power changes in Russia, the attitude to cryptocurrency will change.

Slow death

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if the article tells the truth I do not know, but the political system of russia is a very shady political system and it does not seem to me that russia intends to see bitcoin being adopted en masse in its country, it seems to me that what the Russian government want is greatly reduce the number of people using bitcoin so that the Russian government has more control over the small number of people who use bitcoin in their country. This is something expected of governments that have a shadowy political system, for this kind of government to remain in power is because they control and manipulate their people.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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@veleten. China holds $1.17 trillion in US treasury bonds, while Russia does not hold anything and might also have given up their position as a nuclear super power.

veleten

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don't trust any news about crypto coming from Russia
in most cases the news is either not true or scewed
this article is all about the "iron curtain" and how Russia is "crushing the free internet" and "restricting internet to its citizens"
while in reality it is a project to try and create a self-sufficient internet , not reliant on international channels and servers located elsewhere
this is more of a precautionary security measure rather than an "assault on democracy and all thats holy"
because of the Crimea sanctions there were talks about disconnecting Russia from the SWIFT , so what if the next move were to disconnect Russia from the internet?
China can do this and they remain the biggest US trade partner , but Russia cannot even try to propose such a thing without getting slammed Cheesy

the article is biased on so many levels , but it is not surprising to me

bbc.reporter

legendary

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@elda34b. Similar to America's SEC, it might be easy from them to create the laws but it might be hard to enforce them as regulations hehehe.

However, I also reckon that all the created government restrictions might also be good for the cryptospace as a challenge to find other methods of avoiding them hehehe.

elda34b

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on April 16, 2019, 08:59:00 PM

What are the methods available to outmanoeuvre this? I reckon there is Tor, VPNs and proxies to make their jobs of regulating traffic very difficult.

Also, the Russian government might censor some centralized bitcoin websites, however, can it censor a random node from connecting to other random nodes?

dnscrypt is also a good choice to bypass such massive censorship. They might be able to block a node to connect to other nodes if they have enough data (I believe they'll force internet providers to blacklist those IPs as a way to block this). But that's easy to bypass as some nodes might just get a new address.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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What are the methods available to outmanoeuvre this? I reckon there is Tor, VPNs and proxies to make their jobs of regulating traffic very difficult.

Also, the Russian government might censor some centralized bitcoin websites, however, can it censor a random node from connecting to other random nodes?

timerland

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I honestly don't think that it's as big a deal as it seems.

It's not unprecedented, as China has done it already, and yet it still has a strong influence over the market. China doesn't even have centralized exchanges operating in its borders anymore, but trading activity still goes on through p2p means.

Why? Because bitcoin is intrinsically decentralized, and you can only do so much to stop the flow of internet traffic. You can't just pinpoint bitcoin transactions and block them.

I think if this was ever implemented, the most effect will be felt by third party services that offer their product to Russian users, because their sites would be blocked off. But even then, there will be alternatives for Russians popping up real quick, because the bitcoin blockchain itself is still accessible nonetheless.

gentlemand

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I don't really give a shit about the trading thing. I don't believe a fucking thing the Russian government says about crypto.

Beyond that from what I've read this sovereign internet thing is their nuclear option, not the planned day to day reality. In a way other countries should consider the same option. The US is not anyone's friend and internet usability is an awfully powerful axe to wield and only getting more powerful.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: Theb on April 13, 2019, 12:25:15 PM

Quote from: https://www.ccn.com/what-russias-digital-iron-curtain-means-for-bitcoin-users

According to proposed regulations, the government wants to restrict Russian traders to local crypto exchanges and also only allow “qualified” investors – e.g., those with a degree in economics and a certificate from the government – to trade Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

WTF?!?!?!?!?!? With that kind of regulation they are exactly doing the exact opposite of what other countries are doing where they allow their citizens to trade and try to limit money from their financial institutions coming in. Why the hell do you need a degree in economics for before you trade legally when we all know most of the economists out here are close minded when it comes to the crypto market itself. They are setting the motion backwards here and I doubt that there is really a big threat in their country to do such thing.

I guess their logic is that trading is a zero-sum game and that uneducated people will generally lose their money with it, so the government should protect them. They also distrust Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, because they generally very suspicious of every technology that didn't originate from Russia, as they think there's a risk that it comes from the Western security services and they've put some backdoors into it.

Falgorn

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The government of Russia seems to be pursuing a tough anti-people policy aimed at restricting its citizens from world news and other information. We see that the global information system Internet in Russia is subject to censorship and persecution. Having the right to choose the information offered and the opportunity
censoring the incoming information, the Russian government will be very easy to control the minds of its citizens.
Regulation of cryptocurrency in Russia is part of such a plan. Therefore, it is not surprising that they are going to put on an "iron curtain" there as well on cryptocurrency. To allow cryptocurrency to be owned only by persons who will be licensed by the government means the same total control over citizens and not only in the information plan, but also in the field of finance.

Lanatsa

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Quote from: Raja_MBZ on April 14, 2019, 07:41:26 AM

Quote from: Theb on April 13, 2019, 12:25:15 PM

Quote from: https://www.ccn.com/what-russias-digital-iron-curtain-means-for-bitcoin-users

According to proposed regulations, the government wants to restrict Russian traders to local crypto exchanges and also only allow “qualified” investors – e.g., those with a degree in economics and a certificate from the government – to trade Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

WTF?!?!?!?!?!? With that kind of regulation they are exactly doing the exact opposite of what other countries are doing where they allow their citizens to trade and try to limit money from their financial institutions coming in. Why the hell do you need a degree in economics for before you trade legally when we all know most of the economists out here are close minded when it comes to the crypto market itself. They are setting the motion backwards here and I doubt that there is really a big threat in their country to do such thing.

I don't think that they'll actually regulate the traders that way. It looks too hilarious to be true. Within the past few years, we've seen a lot of "fake" news by such websites and I think that it's just another one of them. Even if someone has "proposed" such regulations", I'm sure that they won't get approved.

When we do try to look at on their proposal or that kind of regulation it is really quite odd compared into most common regulations on where most countries are doing.I fully
agree on the thing been said above on why the heck it would really be needed to have that Economics degree for you to trade on? Thats way more too choking for possible traders out there locally.

Raja_MBZ

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Quote from: Theb on April 13, 2019, 12:25:15 PM

Quote from: https://www.ccn.com/what-russias-digital-iron-curtain-means-for-bitcoin-users

According to proposed regulations, the government wants to restrict Russian traders to local crypto exchanges and also only allow “qualified” investors – e.g., those with a degree in economics and a certificate from the government – to trade Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

WTF?!?!?!?!?!? With that kind of regulation they are exactly doing the exact opposite of what other countries are doing where they allow their citizens to trade and try to limit money from their financial institutions coming in. Why the hell do you need a degree in economics for before you trade legally when we all know most of the economists out here are close minded when it comes to the crypto market itself. They are setting the motion backwards here and I doubt that there is really a big threat in their country to do such thing.

I don't think that they'll actually regulate the traders that way. It looks too hilarious to be true. Within the past few years, we've seen a lot of "fake" news by such websites and I think that it's just another one of them. Even if someone has "proposed" such regulations", I'm sure that they won't get approved.

Fabienne_ayy

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Quote from: tyz on April 13, 2019, 11:25:53 AM

What Russia’s ‘Digital Iron Curtain’ Means for Bitcoin Users

The Russian Duma approved a bill that would enable the country to have a “Great Firewall” or “Iron Curtain” similar to what China has. The result of the law is that, whenever the government wants to, it can censor all incoming and outgoing traffic traveling through state-owned channels.

https://www.ccn.com/what-russias-digital-iron-curtain-means-for-bitcoin-users

For crypto users, this would undoubtedly mean that all of their transactional traffic could become known to the government at any time. Then why do we need crypto Huh

Tylev

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Quote from: Theb on April 13, 2019, 12:25:15 PM

Quote from: https://www.ccn.com/what-russias-digital-iron-curtain-means-for-bitcoin-users

According to proposed regulations, the government wants to restrict Russian traders to local crypto exchanges and also only allow “qualified” investors – e.g., those with a degree in economics and a certificate from the government – to trade Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

WTF?!?!?!?!?!? With that kind of regulation they are exactly doing the exact opposite of what other countries are doing where they allow their citizens to trade and try to limit money from their financial institutions coming in. Why the hell do you need a degree in economics for before you trade legally when we all know most of the economists out here are close minded when it comes to the crypto market itself. They are setting the motion backwards here and I doubt that there is really a big threat in their country to do such thing.

In today's Russia, in this corrupt country where oligarchic clans rule, there can be no other way. They can also adopt a bill that is in their possession on imposing criminal liability for the use of cryptocurrency by "unqualified" users. I did not expect anything else from the Putin regime. Directly, it is inconvenient for them to completely ban cryptocurrency after Putin and the other top leaders of the country extolled it and in fact introduced the same prohibition in a slightly different way. I'm surprised-Putin has a lie everywhere.

Theb

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Quote from: https://www.ccn.com/what-russias-digital-iron-curtain-means-for-bitcoin-users

According to proposed regulations, the government wants to restrict Russian traders to local crypto exchanges and also only allow “qualified” investors – e.g., those with a degree in economics and a certificate from the government – to trade Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

WTF?!?!?!?!?!? With that kind of regulation they are exactly doing the exact opposite of what other countries are doing where they allow their citizens to trade and try to limit money from their financial institutions coming in. Why the hell do you need a degree in economics for before you trade legally when we all know most of the economists out here are close minded when it comes to the crypto market itself. They are setting the motion backwards here and I doubt that there is really a big threat in their country to do such thing.

tyz

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What Russia’s ‘Digital Iron Curtain’ Means for Bitcoin Users

The Russian Duma approved a bill that would enable the country to have a “Great Firewall” or “Iron Curtain” similar to what China has. The result of the law is that, whenever the government wants to, it can censor all incoming and outgoing traffic traveling through state-owned channels.

https://www.ccn.com/what-russias-digital-iron-curtain-means-for-bitcoin-users

Topic: [2019-04-13] What Russia’s ‘Digital Iron Curtain’ Means for Bitcoin Users (Read 380 times)