Topic: [2019-05-20] Poloniex delists 9 cryptos for U.S. traders, they may be securities (Read 395 times)
July 29, 2019, 09:00:35 PM
I forgot the website, however I remember there was an article written there that some ICOs are not applicable under the Howey test because the tokens are the product in those platforms.
July 29, 2019, 05:51:34 PM
The SEC clarified last year that ETH is not a security:
Quote
William Hinman, director of the division of corporation finance at the SEC, explained at the summit: “Based on my understanding of the present state of ether, the Ethereum network and its decentralized structure, current offers and sales of ether are not securities transactions.”
I only accept that once they ve written down that statement. Given out legal doc like a no action letter. Not having such yet after many ppl tried to imply that eth might not be a security ( it is 100% for sure, easy read from ICO and selling purpose definition) is a strong hint that still fights from eth foundation are on.
requiring a no-action letter as proof makes no sense. the SEC would only write a no-action letter if it were requested by the ethereum foundation. https://www.sec.gov/fast-answers/answersnoactionhtm.html
regulators in the USA don't like to make it easy. the SEC is unlikely to state in a formal document that ether is not a security. the fact that they've publicly stated it's not a security and haven't come after the ETH foundation is pretty strong indication of their position though.
personally, i don't see how ethereum fits #2 and #4 of the howey test. but maybe you can enlighten us.
Nope. The tactics is simple. They ll wait and what business will earn a bounty for them and charge it later . So no big bank with decent risk dept will pick eth for trading. It is a dad cat.
Any bigger move to change protocol by some central dev is the security proof btw
July 29, 2019, 04:52:19 PM
The SEC clarified last year that ETH is not a security:
Quote
William Hinman, director of the division of corporation finance at the SEC, explained at the summit: “Based on my understanding of the present state of ether, the Ethereum network and its decentralized structure, current offers and sales of ether are not securities transactions.”
I only accept that once they ve written down that statement. Given out legal doc like a no action letter. Not having such yet after many ppl tried to imply that eth might not be a security ( it is 100% for sure, easy read from ICO and selling purpose definition) is a strong hint that still fights from eth foundation are on.
requiring a no-action letter as proof makes no sense. the SEC would only write a no-action letter if it were requested by the ethereum foundation. https://www.sec.gov/fast-answers/answersnoactionhtm.html
regulators in the USA don't like to make it easy. the SEC is unlikely to state in a formal document that ether is not a security. the fact that they've publicly stated it's not a security and haven't come after the ETH foundation is pretty strong indication of their position though.
personally, i don't see how ethereum fits #2 and #4 of the howey test. but maybe you can enlighten us.
July 29, 2019, 04:07:39 PM
Like the SEC chairman said on his interview about a year ago, all ICO coins ARE securities and needs to be regulated as such.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
What the SEC chairman said at the time was, "I believe every ICO I’ve seen is a security." It wasn't a blanket statement about the ICO mechanism itself, though he was certainly implying that most ICO tokens are securities.
The SEC clarified last year that ETH is not a security:
Quote
William Hinman, director of the division of corporation finance at the SEC, explained at the summit: “Based on my understanding of the present state of ether, the Ethereum network and its decentralized structure, current offers and sales of ether are not securities transactions.”
I only accept that once they ve written down that statement. Given out legal doc like a no action letter. Not having such yet after many ppl tried to imply that eth might not be a security ( it is 100% for sure, easy read from ICO and selling purpose definition) is a strong hint that still fights from eth foundation are on.
July 29, 2019, 03:37:01 PM
Like the SEC chairman said on his interview about a year ago, all ICO coins ARE securities and needs to be regulated as such.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
What the SEC chairman said at the time was, "I believe every ICO I’ve seen is a security." It wasn't a blanket statement about the ICO mechanism itself, though he was certainly implying that most ICO tokens are securities.
The SEC clarified last year that ETH is not a security:
Quote
William Hinman, director of the division of corporation finance at the SEC, explained at the summit: “Based on my understanding of the present state of ether, the Ethereum network and its decentralized structure, current offers and sales of ether are not securities transactions.”
July 29, 2019, 02:55:57 PM
Like the SEC chairman said on his interview about a year ago, all ICO coins ARE securities and needs to be regulated as such.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
Ether might be somewhat different with how it had a long POW history up to where we are today.
XRP on the other hand is a classic security token. It would surprise me if the SEC doesn't officially mark it as such, because it behaves exactly like a stock that bounces up or down based on partnerships and new company developments. Funny thing is that after Jay Clayton's (SEC chairman) interview, Brad Garlinghouse (CEO of Ripple) suddenly started to advertise XRP as being more decentralized than Bitcoin, lol.
The only downside to these delistings is that you can say goodbye to fair price discovery and welcome pump and dump schemes to take over.
July 29, 2019, 08:44:09 AM
Like the SEC chairman said on his interview about a year ago, all ICO coins ARE securities and needs to be regulated as such.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
Go down the list in coinmarketcap and mark em
ETH, XRP ,... all such are, no rocket Science.
July 29, 2019, 02:03:41 AM
@figmentofmyass. You make it appear practicing law is a scam hehehe. Maybe the law was designed by people to scam other people. All full of loopholes and traps if you know what you are doing.
hello! you signalled that they are now in bermuda.
https://cryptoslate.com/circle-poloniex-us-bermuda-regulatory-uncertainty/
is it effective ?
I am not so certain. The American government's power sometimes extends from its own borders because of their ability to impose sanctions and violence.
Why are you asking? You want Aeon relisted there hehehe?
just curious, trying to understand.
July 29, 2019, 12:02:47 AM
@figmentofmyass. You make it appear practicing law is a scam hehehe. Maybe the law was designed by people to scam other people. All full of loopholes and traps if you know what you are doing.
hello! you signalled that they are now in bermuda.
https://cryptoslate.com/circle-poloniex-us-bermuda-regulatory-uncertainty/
is it effective ?
I am not so certain. The American government's power sometimes extends from its own borders because of their ability to impose sanctions and violence.
Why are you asking? You want Aeon relisted there hehehe?
July 28, 2019, 07:22:35 PM
That is not a problem with Poloniex. People are talking like that they have made a mistake or something. They are only following the us law. Probably all the others exchanges that operate in Us will have to make the same. Bittrex has created the international version to scape this rule.
That is right opinion mate, I understand the reaction of the people against poloniex decision to delis 9 coins, the company need to follow the rules of law of the states to protect also their interest and to other customers than government order to stop operating the exchange if not follow the rules of law.
July 27, 2019, 02:29:45 AM
@figmentofmyass. You make it appear practicing law is a scam hehehe. Maybe the law was designed by people to scam other people. All full of loopholes and traps if you know what you are doing.
hello! you signalled that they are now in bermuda.
https://cryptoslate.com/circle-poloniex-us-bermuda-regulatory-uncertainty/
is it effective ?
June 14, 2019, 01:12:12 AM
@figmentofmyass. You make it appear practicing law is a scam hehehe. Maybe the law was designed by people to scam other people. All full of loopholes and traps if you know what you are doing.
June 13, 2019, 12:49:25 AM
Bittrex has now also released a list of banned cryptocoins in the US of its own. However, none of the coins in Poloniex's list are in it.
Is there different government guidance or what? Or did Bittrex try to adjust it on their own?
It looks funny to see two exchange in the US didn't agree on what coins could be considered as securities. Still, they both agree XRP is not securities.
different legal counsels, different interpretations of the law. there's a lot of grey area with so-called "utility tokens" especially with the SEC offering "no action" relief to let teams prove their tokens aren't securities. since none of this stuff has been fought out in court yet (no precedent), it's all up to individual legal teams to determine how to best mitigate their clients' risk. i worked at a law firm for a few years......every lawyer's got a different opinion on everything. and they all think they're right.
June 12, 2019, 08:17:34 PM
@jonoboini. I reckon each exchange itself and the vip traders and investors who were holding those coins in them, have already dumped them, is the reason for the difference of their lists hehehe.
June 12, 2019, 01:58:35 AM
Bittrex has now also released a list of banned cryptocoins in the US of its own. However, none of the coins in Poloniex's list are in it.
Is there different government guidance or what? Or did Bittrex try to adjust it on their own?
It looks funny to see two exchange in the US didn't agree on what coins could be considered as securities. Still, they both agree XRP is not securities.
June 11, 2019, 09:53:53 PM
Bittrex has now also released a list of banned cryptocoins in the US of its own. However, none of the coins in Poloniex's list are in it.
The following markets will transition to Bittrex International on June 21, 2019.
ADT CMCT GO MFT QRL XEL
AMP DNT GTO MOBI QTUM XNK
BAY DTA HYDRO NLC2 RFR
BCPT ENG IHT NMR STORJ
BLOCK FCT ION PRO STORM
BOX FLDC LBA PTOY SWT
Source https://bittrex.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360028996652
The following markets will transition to Bittrex International on June 21, 2019.
ADT CMCT GO MFT QRL XEL
AMP DNT GTO MOBI QTUM XNK
BAY DTA HYDRO NLC2 RFR
BCPT ENG IHT NMR STORJ
BLOCK FCT ION PRO STORM
BOX FLDC LBA PTOY SWT
Source https://bittrex.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360028996652
May 22, 2019, 09:49:07 PM
@Slow death Bittrex International is the version of the exchange that is for its customers outside the U.S. I reckon they might have already did their research and the legal work to know that the SEC cannot shut it down.
@Bitholder. Bittrex also lost its whales to Binance hehehe.
@Bitholder. Bittrex also lost its whales to Binance hehehe.
May 22, 2019, 05:32:13 PM
Tristan D'Agosta must be laughing his way all the way to the bank when he sold Poloniex the Dying to Circle hehehe.
I'm sure he does. $400 million for an exchange that lost its whale traders to Bittrex is an absolute joke. Circle very likely bought it with the intention to make Poloniex reach its glory days as top exchange.Poloniex was the shit during the rise of Ethereum. It easily did 100k BTC just on its BTC/ETH pair, and the rest of the coins they had listed did over 100k BTC combined in volume on top of it.
Over 200k BTC in volume per day means a shit ton of fee income. These guys must be sitting somewhere on an island drinking tequilas all day, and I can't blame them for doing so. Circle rekt itself there.
May 22, 2019, 04:39:30 PM
when they ignore the problems of their customers, it just proves they are not afraid of regulators and now they are delists 9 cryptos because they are afraid of US regulators? Why did not I see Bittrex take the same action? according to this:
bittrex are also from the USA and:
https://international.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-LSK
https://international.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-ARDR
https://international.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-DCR
aI have not seen them take the same action
Bittrex Incorporated
800 5th Avenue
Ste. 4100
Seattle, WA 98104-3100
Customer Support
800 5th Avenue
Ste. 4100
Seattle, WA 98104-3100
Customer Support
bittrex are also from the USA and:
https://international.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-LSK
https://international.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-ARDR
https://international.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-DCR
aI have not seen them take the same action
May 20, 2019, 09:29:01 PM
@IconFirm. Agreed. Tristan D'Agosta must be laughing his way all the way to the bank when he sold Poloniex the Dying to Circle hehehe. Also, the exchange is very slow in times of high trading activity and the support staff are very incompetent and slow.
I thought this would change after Circle's takeover.
I thought this would change after Circle's takeover.
May 20, 2019, 01:03:59 PM
Oh I dunno. Seeing as the owners are a bunch of corrupt, power crazy, greedy, money grabbing banksters I think it reflects perfectly....lol
That's as maybe, but Circle.com was a superb service and support was near instant the couple of times I had a problem. It looks like they're leaving Poloniex to rot. I presume they have a grand plan that they're not rolling out until far in the future and it's effectively placeholding for now.
May 20, 2019, 01:02:03 PM
Am pretty amazed Poloniex is still so shit and appears to be largely unchanged since its acquisition. It doesn't reflect well on its new owners.
Oh I dunno. Seeing as the owners are a bunch of corrupt, power crazy, greedy, money grabbing banksters I think it reflects perfectly....lol
May 20, 2019, 11:58:40 AM
I'm not familiar with most of those coins, but NXT's sole purpose for the past few years seems to have been to distribute other coins and have an empty pump while they're at it. That sounds rather security-esque to me.
Am pretty amazed Poloniex is still so shit and appears to be largely unchanged since its acquisition. It doesn't reflect well on its new owners.
Am pretty amazed Poloniex is still so shit and appears to be largely unchanged since its acquisition. It doesn't reflect well on its new owners.
May 20, 2019, 11:36:06 AM
That is not a problem with Poloniex. People are talking like that they have made a mistake or something. They are only following the us law. Probably all the others exchanges that operate in Us will have to make the same. Bittrex has created the international version to scape this rule.
May 20, 2019, 10:01:03 AM
If you are going to list any coin that comes your way for the $$$$, this is what happens especially if you are now considered a second class exchange...someone needs to pay their bills 
!
All this pressure makes me think these guys need to re-brand for the sake of their public image as soon as possible!
!All this pressure makes me think these guys need to re-brand for the sake of their public image as soon as possible!
Quote
Today’s action is a result of regulatory uncertainty in the US market. Specifically, it is not possible to be certain whether US regulators will consider these assets to be securities.
This is a familiar line and they should know better that the US market is a no go. Well if you are to survive in this industry and you in it for the money you need to risk it sometimes especially when the competition is high, this action from poloniex isn't jaw dropping either!
May 20, 2019, 08:11:10 AM
Not that I'll be shedding any tears over those coins (shocked that I actually used to have Lisk haha) but Polo, dear, why not just come clean and tell us why exactly youbdelisted them? Never mind that Ripple, as pointed out by our lovely forumsters, should be most obvious in the lineup for knocking off, but come on, when did you ever worry about having inadvertently offered securities, what about all those already sold?
I'd like to get a reimbursement on them tokens bought circa 2017. Oh but wait, you haven't answered my support tickets from circa 2017 =(
I'd like to get a reimbursement on them tokens bought circa 2017. Oh but wait, you haven't answered my support tickets from circa 2017 =(
May 20, 2019, 06:59:31 AM
double standards is the name of the game!
they delist 9 coins quoting: "Today’s action is a result of regulatory uncertainty in the US market. Specifically, it is not possible to be certain whether US regulators will consider these assets to be securities"
do US regulators consider any other cryptocurrencies as securities?
or they just preemptively complying ?
as for Ripple read this: https://www.theblockcrypto.com/tiny/ripples-quarterly-reports-understated-xrp-released-from-escrow-by-84-million/
"According to Coin Metrics, the number of XRP released from escrow has been underreported in two quarterly market reports. The total difference between the reported figures in quarterly reports for Q3 2018 and Q1 2019 and on-chain data equals 200 million XRP (approximately $84 million)."
they delist 9 coins quoting: "Today’s action is a result of regulatory uncertainty in the US market. Specifically, it is not possible to be certain whether US regulators will consider these assets to be securities"
do US regulators consider any other cryptocurrencies as securities?
or they just preemptively complying ?
as for Ripple read this: https://www.theblockcrypto.com/tiny/ripples-quarterly-reports-understated-xrp-released-from-escrow-by-84-million/
"According to Coin Metrics, the number of XRP released from escrow has been underreported in two quarterly market reports. The total difference between the reported figures in quarterly reports for Q3 2018 and Q1 2019 and on-chain data equals 200 million XRP (approximately $84 million)."
May 20, 2019, 05:51:18 AM
Poloniex is an absolute joke of an exchange - the amount of shitcoins/shitokens they are listing is proof enough of this, but their customer support is also a shambles.
There is a double standard occuring in this corrupt system.
This is so true & is what happens when corrupt institutions like Circle/JP Morgan get involved in crypto, greed is the only motivation for them.
BTW - SYS is also delisted, not that I'm surprised after their involvement with the Peermountain scammers & the amount of censorship going on with that coin, plus the $12+ million deficit BCF (BlockChain Foundry) have racked up in the last few months:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50010161
Disclaimer: This is not a stake.com shitpost.
There is a double standard occuring in this corrupt system.
This is so true & is what happens when corrupt institutions like Circle/JP Morgan get involved in crypto, greed is the only motivation for them.
BTW - SYS is also delisted, not that I'm surprised after their involvement with the Peermountain scammers & the amount of censorship going on with that coin, plus the $12+ million deficit BCF (BlockChain Foundry) have racked up in the last few months:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50010161
Disclaimer: This is not a stake.com shitpost.
May 20, 2019, 01:53:57 AM
Running a cryptocurrency exchange platform under US jurisdiction is a pain in the a$$. 
Crypto trading platforms are servants to the SEC and they have to obey to every rule,it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong.I'm not advocating on those coins,but the lack of regulatory clarity leads to big loss.
Crypto trading platforms are servants to the SEC and they have to obey to every rule,it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong.I'm not advocating on those coins,but the lack of regulatory clarity leads to big loss.
May 20, 2019, 12:25:45 AM
Quote
The decision is apparently being made after guidance from regulators. Circle is still actively lobbying for crypto assets to be treated differently to more traditional types of asset, but it can't guarantee that this will happen.
What is obvious here is that Poloniex has no choice but to bow down to the wishes of the authorities in the meantime that there is no clear regulatory definition for what is a security in the cryptocurrency space. As to how they arrived at the conclusion for these coins to get delisted, maybe they should tell us more. As to XRP and Stellar, maybe they decided that these two are too big to get delisted and those coins in the list are already enough to please regulators. Of course, we should not be surprised of any double standards here as it can happen anytime anywhere and on many situations.
May 20, 2019, 12:04:34 AM
What about Ripple and Stellar? I reckon they are the easiest among all cryptcoins listed in Poloniex to be classified as securities controlled by a centralized organization that issues Ripple and Stellar tokens to their partnered banks and other financial institutions.
There is a double standard occuring in this corrupt system.
Poloniex, which was acquired by major payments provider Circle back in February 2018, will no longer be offering U.S. customers trading for the following cryptos: Ardor (ARDR), Bytecoin (BCN), Decred (DCR), GameCredits (GAME), Gas (GAS), Lisk (LSK), Nxt (NXT), Omni (OMNI), and Augur (REP).
The decision is apparently being made after guidance from regulators. Circle is still actively lobbying for crypto assets to be treated differently to more traditional types of asset, but it can't guarantee that this will happen.
According to the exchange's statement, "Today’s action is a result of regulatory uncertainty in the US market. Specifically, it is not possible to be certain whether US regulators will consider these assets to be securities. We understand how frustrating this choice is for our customers, and for the crypto community more broadly".
Read in full https://www.chepicap.com/en/news/9760/poloniex-delists-9-cryptos-for-u-s-traders-as-they-may-be-securities.html
There is a double standard occuring in this corrupt system.
Poloniex, which was acquired by major payments provider Circle back in February 2018, will no longer be offering U.S. customers trading for the following cryptos: Ardor (ARDR), Bytecoin (BCN), Decred (DCR), GameCredits (GAME), Gas (GAS), Lisk (LSK), Nxt (NXT), Omni (OMNI), and Augur (REP).
The decision is apparently being made after guidance from regulators. Circle is still actively lobbying for crypto assets to be treated differently to more traditional types of asset, but it can't guarantee that this will happen.
According to the exchange's statement, "Today’s action is a result of regulatory uncertainty in the US market. Specifically, it is not possible to be certain whether US regulators will consider these assets to be securities. We understand how frustrating this choice is for our customers, and for the crypto community more broadly".
Read in full https://www.chepicap.com/en/news/9760/poloniex-delists-9-cryptos-for-u-s-traders-as-they-may-be-securities.html
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