[2019-07-18] IDEX set to begin transition period for KYC and AML compliance

timerland

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on August 12, 2019, 08:32:09 PM

@timerland. Agreed! Also, one country's strict ban might be another country's opportunity to use it versus the country that banned it. It might also increase demand in that country hehehe.

Definitely a good point. Banning something that's in high demand has never been a good idea. Usually doing such a thing to a popular item will just cause underground markets to be started and since they are underground, the government won't be able to control them and it just ends up being worse for them.

Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 12, 2019, 09:50:49 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 11, 2019, 10:57:13 PM

I am curious to know about what will happen to those decentralized exchanges which refuse to do KYC. Will they be seized, just like the feds seized BTC-e/Wex.nz?

How would they seize something which is decentralized (and distributed as well)?

Would they hunt all ETH miners, pools and node owners to stop DEX which use ETH smart contract?
Would they hunt the developer of the DEX, which won't stop DEX from running fine without them?

At most they would black list known coins which pass through DEX and block all website about DEX.

If I am not wrong, the domains can be easily seized. And after what happened with BTC-e/Wex.nz, I believe that in many cases the authorities will be even capable of seizing any funds within these DEX sites. But here the problem for them is that DEX sites don't usually store any coins. The coins are stored in the user wallets, even during trading.

The other possibilities that you had listed, such as closing down the ETH mining farms and blacklisting all the altcoins, are just not practical. They are difficult to implement on the ground and they may be ineffective.

It'll be impossible for user funds to be seized, good DEX's will make sure they will not be able to access the user's private keys and make sure their platform is just a platform for the users to trade on.

Domains getting seized is very interested though, I'm interested if they'd actually do that. Does that mean DEX's will have to move to other domains or use .onion domains to prevent them from being taken down as easily?

Quote from: veleten on August 14, 2019, 11:44:04 AM

this defeats the sole purpose of decentralized exchanges - keep your personal data away from the agencies
it literally takes away the advantage decentralized exchanges had over centralized exchanges ,now what
all of the decentralized exchanges become compliant and turn into centralized exchanges?
this was expected but happened too soon , now they have only two options to comply or go rogue /hide in offshores

It does, but it's not all the exchange's fault. Companies are often forced to legalize their companies by the government, and it's looking grim for decentralization.

carlfebz2

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on August 14, 2019, 12:13:24 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Newer Tor Browser enable JavaScript by default. Lag is a trade-off for better privacy and people who use Tor know this fact.

https://bisq.network/

I have never tried bisq, but one of my friends told me that it is not that hard to use. I expect the government policy towards the cryptocurrencies to become more hostile as time progresses. So we need to get used to these exchanges based on TOR, if we plan to use crypto in the future. Let's prove that we're one step ahead of the authorities. Grin

Quote from: nofreecoins on August 18, 2019, 12:11:41 PM

Why everyone ignoring that the actual url to the site is missing and there are a lot of fake ones.
This forum is ruled and plagued by scam, what a shame.

It should be but people do still love to make use of CEX even there are lots of Dex out there the only thing I do see or reason why people do still make use of it
because of Crypto/Fiat pair.

Quote from: nofreecoins on August 18, 2019, 12:11:41 PM

Why everyone ignoring that the actual url to the site is missing and there are a lot of fake ones.
This forum is ruled and plagued by scam, what a shame.

Then give me a place or forum or marketplace that doesn't have signs of scam? As long theres money involved these scammers would be always present.So nothing new here!

nofreecoins

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Why everyone ignoring that the actual url to the site is missing and there are a lot of fake ones.
This forum is ruled and plagued by scam, what a shame.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Newer Tor Browser enable JavaScript by default. Lag is a trade-off for better privacy and people who use Tor know this fact.

https://bisq.network/

I have never tried bisq, but one of my friends told me that it is not that hard to use. I expect the government policy towards the cryptocurrencies to become more hostile as time progresses. So we need to get used to these exchanges based on TOR, if we plan to use crypto in the future. Let's prove that we're one step ahead of the authorities. Grin

veleten

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this defeats the sole purpose of decentralized exchanges - keep your personal data away from the agencies
it literally takes away the advantage decentralized exchanges had over centralized exchanges ,now what
all of the decentralized exchanges become compliant and turn into centralized exchanges?
this was expected but happened too soon , now they have only two options to comply or go rogue /hide in offshores

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 12, 2019, 09:50:49 PM

If I am not wrong, the domains can be easily seized. And after what happened with BTC-e/Wex.nz, I believe that in many cases the authorities will be even capable of seizing any funds within these DEX sites.

True, but it won't stop DEX source code development or DEX itself, they always could .onion domain (for DEX) or IPFS (for DEX source code).

But then the big question arises. Is it possible for a DEX site to move from normal browser to the TOR browser? I am not sure whether the Java Scripts and all would run without any issues in TOR. There may be a lag as well, as TOR is slower than the ordinary browsers due to the requirement of relaying information to multiple nodes.

Another issue is with the security. Knowing how vulnerable ERC-20 platform can be to hacking, I am a bit skeptical about linking the wallet to any DEX sites that operates in TOR. I am not an expert in TOR, so my fear may be illogical. BTW are there any DEX sites which are active now and running on TOR? I haven't heard of any and would like to try.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 11, 2019, 10:57:13 PM

I am curious to know about what will happen to those decentralized exchanges which refuse to do KYC. Will they be seized, just like the feds seized BTC-e/Wex.nz?

How would they seize something which is decentralized (and distributed as well)?

Would they hunt all ETH miners, pools and node owners to stop DEX which use ETH smart contract?
Would they hunt the developer of the DEX, which won't stop DEX from running fine without them?

At most they would black list known coins which pass through DEX and block all website about DEX.

If I am not wrong, the domains can be easily seized. And after what happened with BTC-e/Wex.nz, I believe that in many cases the authorities will be even capable of seizing any funds within these DEX sites. But here the problem for them is that DEX sites don't usually store any coins. The coins are stored in the user wallets, even during trading.

The other possibilities that you had listed, such as closing down the ETH mining farms and blacklisting all the altcoins, are just not practical. They are difficult to implement on the ground and they may be ineffective.

nofreecoins

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Cannot see .market on the thread, not on the site easily either.

bbc.reporter

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@timerland. Agreed! Also, one country's strict ban might be another country's opportunity to use it versus the country that banned it. It might also increase demand in that country hehehe.

timerland

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on August 07, 2019, 10:31:28 PM

News on Etherdelta, it ran an ICO and exit scammed with the funds. I did not know decentralized exchanges can do this hehehe.

Chinese police investigate alleged $176,000 EtherDelta exit scam

The new owners of EtherDelta reportedly ran an ICO and then disappeared, taking the funds with them.

Non-custodial exchange EtherDelta has been reported to police for allegedly conducting an exit scam, according to Dovey Wan, a partner at cryptocurrency investment fund Primitive Ventures. The dispute involves the sale of Ethereum-based tokens native to the exchange, called EtherDelta Tokens (EDT).

Read in full https://decrypt.co/8263/chinese-police-investigates-alleged-etherdelta

The ICO itself isn't decentralized, so it's not surprising. Besides, why the hell a DEX need their own token anyway, the DEX could run fine without it.

But it's just matter of time before someone attempt to fork EtherDelta source code and deploy it on Ethereum under different name.

Yeah, lol. I don't even know how they raised almost $200,000 in such a useless ICO. DEX's are decentralized and don't need anything to run - if I was one of the investors, I'd suspect an exit scam for sure.

I agree, I reckon the best way to move forward is to just clone the EtherDelta DEX code and re-create a new decentralized exchange with no ICO, or crowdfunding.

Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 11, 2019, 10:57:13 PM

I am curious to know about what will happen to those decentralized exchanges which refuse to do KYC. Will they be seized, just like the feds seized BTC-e/Wex.nz? I hope that at least some of them will move underground (i.e to the onion sites). I don't know how difficult will it be to use a TOR-based exchange, but it should be manageable. But if someone comes up with such an exchange, then there is always a chance of users getting scammed. See what happened to Ether Delta. They used to be one of the most reliable decentralized exchanges out there and if I am not wrong they had the highest trade volumes among all the DEX sites. Now they are being accused of robbing users of their funds, in an elaborate exit scam.

I doubt governments will be able to seize decentralized exchanges - it's like them seizing and stopping BTC from even existing. I don't think onion sites are needed now, but possibly if more pressure is exerted from the governments, we could see that.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 11, 2019, 10:57:13 PM

I am curious to know about what will happen to those decentralized exchanges which refuse to do KYC. Will they be seized, just like the feds seized BTC-e/Wex.nz?

the feds will be risking embarrassment when they can't seize anything. with fiat exchanges, they can at least freeze/seize bank and payment processor accounts and really hurt an exchange's operations. if it's totally non-custodial and operated from overseas, the feds are powerless to seize anything more than a domain and some servers. the site can be spun up again overnight.

bryant.coleman

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I am curious to know about what will happen to those decentralized exchanges which refuse to do KYC. Will they be seized, just like the feds seized BTC-e/Wex.nz? I hope that at least some of them will move underground (i.e to the onion sites). I don't know how difficult will it be to use a TOR-based exchange, but it should be manageable. But if someone comes up with such an exchange, then there is always a chance of users getting scammed. See what happened to Ether Delta. They used to be one of the most reliable decentralized exchanges out there and if I am not wrong they had the highest trade volumes among all the DEX sites. Now they are being accused of robbing users of their funds, in an elaborate exit scam.

timerland

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on August 07, 2019, 10:31:28 PM

News on Etherdelta, it ran an ICO and exit scammed with the funds. I did not know decentralized exchanges can do this hehehe.

Chinese police investigate alleged $176,000 EtherDelta exit scam

The new owners of EtherDelta reportedly ran an ICO and then disappeared, taking the funds with them.

Non-custodial exchange EtherDelta has been reported to police for allegedly conducting an exit scam, according to Dovey Wan, a partner at cryptocurrency investment fund Primitive Ventures. The dispute involves the sale of Ethereum-based tokens native to the exchange, called EtherDelta Tokens (EDT).

Read in full https://decrypt.co/8263/chinese-police-investigates-alleged-etherdelta

Jesus. Just read the article and I'm left in shock. Etherdelta has been going through so many issues, and I thought them paying off over 400,000 in fines would mean they would be much more careful with things - https://www.coindesk.com/sec-charges-etherdelta-founder-with-running-unregistered-securities-exchange

Although to be fair - it looks like the project was sold 2/3 months before the ICO started, seems like it was sold for the sole purpose of scamming investors with an ICO

Quote

According to a Reddit post, the non-custodial exchange—which lets users keep control over their funds while trading—was sold in December 2017, shortly before the ICO took place in January, 2018. Once the tokens were sold, the website was abandoned.

Another once-respected DEX that I've personally used falls today - even though they weren't the best owners, regulations and rules are making it harder every day to run a DEX, and I feel like the only way to be safe, would be to never get it registered and associate your real ID to it.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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News on Etherdelta, it ran an ICO and exit scammed with the funds. I did not know decentralized exchanges can do this hehehe.

Chinese police investigate alleged $176,000 EtherDelta exit scam

The new owners of EtherDelta reportedly ran an ICO and then disappeared, taking the funds with them.

Non-custodial exchange EtherDelta has been reported to police for allegedly conducting an exit scam, according to Dovey Wan, a partner at cryptocurrency investment fund Primitive Ventures. The dispute involves the sale of Ethereum-based tokens native to the exchange, called EtherDelta Tokens (EDT).

Read in full https://decrypt.co/8263/chinese-police-investigates-alleged-etherdelta

bbc.reporter

legendary

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Quote from: Schirer on July 20, 2019, 05:16:12 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 19, 2019, 10:46:20 PM

@Schirer. Is Etherdelta also decentralized? Why would they pay fines? Who paid the fines?

These centralized DEXs only market themselves as decentralized. They can be fined, shutdown and banned. They are not decentralized.

Also, was Etherdelta an ICO? You do not have to answer that hehehe. We already know what Etherdelta is.

All of your questions can be answered here in official SEc release :
https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-258

The short answer is that the owner of ether-delta paid the fines because in the eyes of Sec, he was operating a illegal security exchange.

I did not need an answer because we already know what Etherdelta is. It is a centralized exchange marketed to be a DEX. They do not care about decentralization and what it represents. I reckon they only used the word decentralized for marketing.

deadsilent

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IDEX should change its name then😀
It is what it is. They should start complying or stop the operations. Decentralized exchange I think is no future as government starts to crack them down. Anyway, it's still a good move for them. They comply and apply AML/KYC to maintain its operation and also to acquire more valuable cryptocurrencies which are not available on decentralized exchanges.

bitcoindusts

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I’m thinking what could be the future of cryptocurrency, supporters want them survive but are being choked slowly by this regulations. This new step may seem to be ok for IDEX according to their statement but it will surely affect their income as well as with other regulated exchanges. I will not be surprised if one day I will hear exchanges shutting down because they are losing clients.

Ozero

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Decentralized exchanges will be forced to obey the general rules of regulation of cryptocurrency activities, or they need to register in offshore zones. In my opinion, this was to be expected. Cryptocurrency and its owners will constantly be subject to new regulation and this process will only be tightened. States will not be allowed to freely walk a decentralized cryptocurrency, which they cannot control.

gentlemand

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Quote from: Schirer on July 18, 2019, 04:40:34 AM

This shows that those exchanges which will remain completely decentralized will be own completely anonymously , most likely will have shit interface and most liekly will be shady. Otherwise they will risk to have regulators punish them.

A properly decentralised exchange will have no owner. It'll be software that lives in wallet or operates on chain. Until that happens none of these places should be billing themselves as decentralised. They may be non custodial but anywhere that relies on someone owning a domain name and hosting is an inherent weak point that can either be pressured or hacked.

Schirer

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 19, 2019, 10:46:20 PM

@Schirer. Is Etherdelta also decentralized? Why would they pay fines? Who paid the fines?

These centralized DEXs only market themselves as decentralized. They can be fined, shutdown and banned. They are not decentralized.

Also, was Etherdelta an ICO? You do not have to answer that hehehe. We already know what Etherdelta is.

All of your questions can be answered here in official SEc release :
https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-258

The short answer is that the owner of ether-delta paid the fines because in the eyes of Sec, he was operating a illegal security exchange.

Vishnu.Reang

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Sad to see the FBI targeting the decentralized exchanges. They should have left them alone, as they don't do any fiat to crypto or crypto to fiat trading. They are used only for crypto-to-crypto trading. But then, challenging the FBI is not an option, as we have seen what happened to BTC-e after they did so. Anyway, lets hope that there will be a change in the regulations.

bbc.reporter

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@Schirer. Is Etherdelta also decentralized? Why would they pay fines? Who paid the fines?

These centralized DEXs only market themselves as decentralized. They can be fined, shutdown and banned. They are not decentralized.

Also, was Etherdelta an ICO? You do not have to answer that hehehe. We already know what Etherdelta is.

timerland

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Quote from: Schirer on July 19, 2019, 08:10:07 AM

Quote from: timerland on July 18, 2019, 06:14:35 PM

-snip-

Actually the reason is very simple why they are doing this, they dont want to pay hundreds of thousands in fines and even risk prison.
Etherdelta paid its fines already!
(https://www.coindesk.com/sec-charges-etherdelta-founder-with-running-unregistered-securities-exchange)

I remember that IDEX has been more careful and has periodically delisted tokens which had a higher chance of being defined as security, but that will not be enough if SEc turns its attention to them.

Their comment on why they need KYC, is just funny and obviously trying the stare the attention away form real reasons.

Thanks for the clarification. I've been basically thinking of the same thing.

I guess the reason why Idex are extra cautious in this issue is because of the fact that they are a hybrid - they are not a true decentralized exchange which can avoid centralized strikes on their site. And given the fact that they are a registered company in Panama, they are more prone to regulatory pressures as opposed to some decentralized exchange site that exists without a clear ownership/management team behind it.

I also read in a medium article today that:

Quote

In addition to IP blocking, IDEX will be implementing KYC/AML policies in order to comply with sanctions and money laundering laws

I'm still not sure how markets will respond to this. IP blocking in itself will drive users away, and KYC/AML even more so. With the lack of liquidity already an issue for decentralized exchanges, this could prove to be difficult.

carlfebz2

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 18, 2019, 08:30:02 PM

Quote from: joelsamuya on July 18, 2019, 12:04:01 AM

Can this be the start of the new trend...decentralized exchanges doing what centralized do? In other words, we are just experiencing the reality of doing business and the power of the government to regulate exchanges. Amidst the many idealistic statements as to the power of the government, the thing is that we are still living in the real world and not yet in the ideal one. Dealing with cryptocurrency does not mean we can now do away with the power of the government....sad but true. I am sure that other decentralized exchanges will be following this step made by IDEX. KYC and AML compliance is the way for these exchanges to continue doing business, that is the fact whether we like it or not.

They have taken away their most important advantage over centralized exchanges. What would be next? The ability to freeze their users' funds? Why choose the decentralized roadmap for that? Be centralized.

True and I'm questioning already my mind on what DEX would be the next on line from switching for Dex to Cex.lol For IDEX users this would surely be a serious thing and instead of using the platform they would rather have the thoughts on switching to famous centralized ones yet they would still need up to pass some KYC and AML compliance.

Schirer

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Quote from: timerland on July 18, 2019, 06:14:35 PM

I don't get the point of this.

If they are trying to go the decentralized route, then why would anyone in their right minds be willing to conduct KYC? Also, having this verification process essentially says that at the end of the day, they are still a centralized entity. That does not paint a very good public image.

Furthermore, why do you need to have KYC in order to take into account people's opinions when you're launching new services? They could already do this with feedback gained through Twitter or even their own support ticket system.

If they ever enforce this on a mandatory basis, they're driving themselves out of business. But I think regulatory pressure comes into play as well, might not even be their own choice.

Actually the reason is very simple why they are doing this, they dont want to pay hundreds of thousands in fines and even risk prison.
Etherdelta paid its fines already!
(https://www.coindesk.com/sec-charges-etherdelta-founder-with-running-unregistered-securities-exchange)

I remember that IDEX has been more careful and has periodically delisted tokens which had a higher chance of being defined as security, but that will not be enough if SEc turns its attention to them.

Their comment on why they need KYC, is just funny and obviously trying the stare the attention away form real reasons.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: joelsamuya on July 18, 2019, 12:04:01 AM

Can this be the start of the new trend...decentralized exchanges doing what centralized do? In other words, we are just experiencing the reality of doing business and the power of the government to regulate exchanges. Amidst the many idealistic statements as to the power of the government, the thing is that we are still living in the real world and not yet in the ideal one. Dealing with cryptocurrency does not mean we can now do away with the power of the government....sad but true. I am sure that other decentralized exchanges will be following this step made by IDEX. KYC and AML compliance is the way for these exchanges to continue doing business, that is the fact whether we like it or not.

They have taken away their most important advantage over centralized exchanges. What would be next? The ability to freeze their users' funds? Why choose the decentralized roadmap for that? Be centralized.

timerland

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Quote

IDEX, the popular hybrid decentralized exchange, today made an announcement concerning new and existing users, who will now be able to create Know-Your-Customer (KYC) verified accounts from Wednesday, July 24th, 2019. This is in line with last years statement from the exchange and an announcement in March, which disclosed a collaboration between IDEX and regulatory technology (RegTech) provider, Blockpass.

The IDEX team not only pursues compliance, but is also eager to start this new phase, so customers are somewhat closer to the exchange. This will make it easier to share news and product updates as well as listen to the community and use feedback to create more features.

“As an added bonus, the launch of accounts means we will finally get to know our customers – i.e., you – better. We’ll more easily be able to launch requested features, and we’ll finally be able to get in touch to share product notifications, asset updates, and essential alerts to help you stay on top of your trading.”

I don't get the point of this.

If they are trying to go the decentralized route, then why would anyone in their right minds be willing to conduct KYC? Also, having this verification process essentially says that at the end of the day, they are still a centralized entity. That does not paint a very good public image.

Furthermore, why do you need to have KYC in order to take into account people's opinions when you're launching new services? They could already do this with feedback gained through Twitter or even their own support ticket system.

If they ever enforce this on a mandatory basis, they're driving themselves out of business. But I think regulatory pressure comes into play as well, might not even be their own choice.

Harlot

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Better to comply with KYC and AML requirements now then be temporarily closed by the authorities for non-compliance. For the people who are sad on what has happened don't be because this is an inevitable thing to happen once the government starts to “care” for our industry. They know that our industry is a billion dollar industry now and they don't want to miss the opportunity from earning a little bit more tax from their citizens or at least make sure that they are getting all the tax obligations they have.

elda34b

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Quote from: Schirer on July 18, 2019, 04:40:34 AM

This shows that those exchanges which will remain completely decentralized will be own completely anonymously , most likely will have shit interface and most liekly will be shady. Otherwise they will risk to have regulators punish them.

There is Bisq though.

Probably the only way to keep trading without having to reveal your identities is via OTC deals in this forum with trusted escrow. But if the day were government request any website that has trade activity even for a little to also do KYC comes, I'll probably stick with my peers if I wanted to trade.

Schirer

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This is surprising and a bit sad. I was certain that they are and will remain decentralized in all the ways. This shows that those exchanges which will remain completely decentralized will be own completely anonymously , most likely will have shit interface and most liekly will be shady. Otherwise they will risk to have regulators punish them.

joelsamuya

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https://emirex.com

Can this be the start of the new trend...decentralized exchanges doing what centralized do? In other words, we are just experiencing the reality of doing business and the power of the government to regulate exchanges. Amidst the many idealistic statements as to the power of the government, the thing is that we are still living in the real world and not yet in the ideal one. Dealing with cryptocurrency does not mean we can now do away with the power of the government....sad but true. I am sure that other decentralized exchanges will be following this step made by IDEX. KYC and AML compliance is the way for these exchanges to continue doing business, that is the fact whether we like it or not.

bbc.reporter

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I reckon they should also announce their transition period for the change in name from IDEX to ICEX hehehe. Also, look at their announcement's added bonus. Who are these scammers trying to scam?

IDEX, the popular hybrid decentralized exchange, today made an announcement concerning new and existing users, who will now be able to create Know-Your-Customer (KYC) verified accounts from Wednesday, July 24th, 2019. This is in line with last years statement from the exchange and an announcement in March, which disclosed a collaboration between IDEX and regulatory technology (RegTech) provider, Blockpass.

The IDEX team not only pursues compliance, but is also eager to start this new phase, so customers are somewhat closer to the exchange. This will make it easier to share news and product updates as well as listen to the community and use feedback to create more features.

“As an added bonus, the launch of accounts means we will finally get to know our customers – i.e., you – better. We’ll more easily be able to launch requested features, and we’ll finally be able to get in touch to share product notifications, asset updates, and essential alerts to help you stay on top of your trading.”
– IDEX Team

Read in full https://www.cryptoninjas.net/2019/07/17/crypto-exchange-idex-set-to-begin-transition-period-for-kyc-and-aml-compliance/

Topic: [2019-07-18] IDEX set to begin transition period for KYC and AML compliance (Read 466 times)