2019-07-23 Fox Business - BAC CEO, Anonymous Crypto Currencies are not good

Sutters Mill

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on July 24, 2019, 02:58:57 PM

its value is based purely on the faith and confidence of its users. if a cryptocurrency is declared illegal, you don't think that would shake the confidence of its users? you don't think liquidity would utterly vanish as it's pulled from exchanges? of course they couldn't kill it, but they could probably drastically cut the market down in size. and for monero, that would mean making its anonymity set much less effective. is that futile?

Well any money is based on the faith of its users and of course declaring crypto illegal would be a huge blow to it, but my point is that doing that isn't going to stop criminals using it and they will continue to do so and just set up their own exchanges that operate outside of the law so all they're doing is penalizing the average joes like us who (probably) don't use bitcoin just for illegal things. This is obviously just how they will wage war on bitcoin by dragging its name through the mud just based on the possibility that it may be used for 'bad', but if there was any truth to this then they would ban cash as well. They obviously just see bitcoin as a threat as it's something they can't control but as for it's illegal use it's futile iin that respect because criminals will always find a way around it so all they're doing is making criminals out of the regular users as well. Instead of trying to tar everyone with the same brush they should just concentrate on going after the true criminals because cryptos are here to stay now for good or bad and whether they like it or not

DooMAD

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Quote from: odolvlobo on July 24, 2019, 07:31:15 PM

The ability to monitor their customers, whether it is for their own benefit or as an agent of a government, is extremely valuable to a bank. They will fight anything that reduces that value, such as the ability to transact anonymously.

Yep, and it's not just restricted to banks monitoring your financial activity, but businesses and "Big Data" in general. Your data is valuable and these companies all want it. Permission for marketing, selling your details to other companies, cookies, etc. It's all potential revenue to them. The less you give out, the better.

odolvlobo

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The ability to monitor their customers, whether it is for their own benefit or as an agent of a government, is extremely valuable to a bank. They will fight anything that reduces that value, such as the ability to transact anonymously.

BitHodler

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Quote from: Tylev on July 24, 2019, 02:12:03 PM

An example of this is Japan, which has always been friendly to cryptocurrency, but has already banned such coins as Monero, Dash and others. Making transactions in these coins will be possible with a total ban, but their exchange for a common currency will be very difficult or even impossible.

It's only an on-exchange ban, so if people end up moving privacy coins back and forth in a peer to peer manner it's still allowed. I don't think we'll ever see them be banned completely because it's pointless to begin with.

The powerful utility of crypto is that anybody can use it regardless of who you are and where you are. Another reason is that it will require so much resources to enforce a total ban that it won't ever pay off at all.

If you just come up with a law where businesses can't list or provide services based on these coins, their appeal will drop to such degree that only the true die-hard privacy needing individuals remain, and these can't be stopped anyway.

timerland

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It's definitely very interesting, the value and use of privacy coins in the current market situation, and as Tyler said, Japan, which has been one of the more crypto-friendly countries in the world, have already banned the use of privacy coins (XMR, DASH).

I do want to see a future where privacy coins would be able to exist in society, alongside more mainstream crypto options that could be used in everyday transactions, but with the current levels of government intervention, it's a long shot.

It is very interesting to speculate what would happen to privacy coins if major governments banned them - would they lose a lot of their value, or still slowly grow, but in a very private way. The people decide how much crypto, cash and other items of monetary value are worth. If people are forced away (by the government), will we see a severe drop in the demand for those coins? What's the future for XMR and the darknet? All very interesting questions.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: Sutters Mill on July 24, 2019, 12:19:47 PM

If what they say is true and criminals are using monero then what would making it illegal do? Criminals will still use it just like they do with drugs and everything else. Whatever restrictions the government try put in place criminals will either find a way around it or just keep on using it anyway so it's futile.

illegal money isn't interchangeable with illegal drugs. drugs have real consumptive value, so addicts and recreational users will make a market no matter what the law says.

but money doesn't have such consumptive value. its value is based purely on the faith and confidence of its users. if a cryptocurrency is declared illegal, you don't think that would shake the confidence of its users? you don't think liquidity would utterly vanish as it's pulled from exchanges? of course they couldn't kill it, but they could probably drastically cut the market down in size. and for monero, that would mean making its anonymity set much less effective. is that futile?

DooMAD

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Quote from: Slow death on July 23, 2019, 12:59:45 PM

It will be a very problematic discussion in the future. On the one hand, there are governments that use the argument that cryptocurrencies can be used for crime and terrorist financing and so they must be properly regulated and oblige people to do KYC, But how will coins like the monero survive? In a world where every day exchanges are demanding KYC and governments are exerting regulatory pressure, is there any future for anonymous currencies like monero?

My general assumption is that it'll only be problem in the near future. I hold the rather optimistic view that Exchanges as a concept are on borrowed time, mostly as a relic of traditional finance. The only reason they exist is because they make facilitating large volumes of trade relatively easy, but their centralised nature makes them weak. I believe that, as technology evolves and things like smart contracts and atomic swaps between various blockchains become commonplace, a time will come when low frequency users (i.e. anyone except day traders) won't need to use centralised exchanges anymore. Hopefully most people will be able to obtain some amount of any given cryptocurrency with their fiat before regulations become too restrictive. After that, I can foresee a future where users will be able to execute buy and sell orders directly in their wallet, peer to peer, without a middleman.

I'm pretty confident that the tech will outpace the regulation and they won't be able to keep up with our advances as trading currencies (hopefully) becomes as simple as sending a transaction. The potential is pretty crazy when you think about it.

Tylev

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In the future, I think that almost all states and their governments will prohibit or substantially limit the circulation of decentralized cryptocurrency with a high level of anonymity. An example of this is Japan, which has always been friendly to cryptocurrency, but has already banned such coins as Monero, Dash and others. Making transactions in these coins will be possible with a total ban, but their exchange for a common currency will be very difficult or even impossible.

Sutters Mill

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Physical cash is more anonymous than bitcoin. Is there a public record of all the drug deals that go on across the world every minute of every day??? Nah. At least with bitcoin there's a public ledger. The powers that be are obviously scared and this is their angle of attack to try justify action:

To sell a war you need a direct threat and we know they'll bare faced lie to get the public on board and it's easy to do when you make it out like their security is at risk.

Quote from: Slow death on July 23, 2019, 12:59:45 PM

It will be a very problematic discussion in the future. On the one hand, there are governments that use the argument that cryptocurrencies can be used for crime and terrorist financing and so they must be properly regulated and oblige people to do KYC, But how will coins like the monero survive? In a world where every day exchanges are demanding KYC and governments are exerting regulatory pressure, is there any future for anonymous currencies like monero?

If what they say is true and criminals are using monero then what would making it illegal do? Criminals will still use it just like they do with drugs and everything else. Whatever restrictions the government try put in place criminals will either find a way around it or just keep on using it anyway so it's futile.

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Quote from: cr1776 on July 24, 2019, 10:19:08 AM

The problem will then become what happens when privacy extensions to bitcoin (or others) are common. The genie will be out of the bottle.

Of course one solution is to just stay within crypto so you don't have to deal with exchanges.

This is a good point.

Regulators will always be a long way behind and for many of them it's about covering their arse rather than actually being effective. They may decide giving privacy coins a hard time is enough even if stuff like lightning networks on BTC take off and make them redundant.

cr1776

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 23, 2019, 04:29:21 PM

Quote from: squatter on July 23, 2019, 03:48:38 PM

Why wouldn't there be? You think governments will start explicitly prohibiting privacy coins?

Heavily regulating exchanges is one thing. Prohibiting anonymous currency is another. If they haven't made cash illegal, then there isn't much legal rationale to prohibit privacy coins.

I think at some point they will tell exchanges that the price of doing business is not doing business with privacy coins.

If cash were invented today you can bet your arse there's no way they'd permit it. It goes against everything they're trying to achieve in the monetary field. Like many things it's still part of our lives because it existed long before the current crop of politicos. That doesn't mean they won't do all they can to extinguish it.

The problem will then become what happens when privacy extensions to bitcoin (or others) are common. The genie will be out of the bottle.

Of course one solution is to just stay within crypto so you don't have to deal with exchanges.

gentlemand

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Quote from: squatter on July 23, 2019, 03:48:38 PM

Why wouldn't there be? You think governments will start explicitly prohibiting privacy coins?

Heavily regulating exchanges is one thing. Prohibiting anonymous currency is another. If they haven't made cash illegal, then there isn't much legal rationale to prohibit privacy coins.

I think at some point they will tell exchanges that the price of doing business is not doing business with privacy coins.

If cash were invented today you can bet your arse there's no way they'd permit it. It goes against everything they're trying to achieve in the monetary field. Like many things it's still part of our lives because it existed long before the current crop of politicos. That doesn't mean they won't do all they can to extinguish it.

squatter

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Quote from: Slow death on July 23, 2019, 12:59:45 PM

It will be a very problematic discussion in the future. On the one hand, there are governments that use the argument that cryptocurrencies can be used for crime and terrorist financing and so they must be properly regulated and oblige people to do KYC, But how will coins like the monero survive? In a world where every day exchanges are demanding KYC and governments are exerting regulatory pressure, is there any future for anonymous currencies like monero?

Why wouldn't there be? You think governments will start explicitly prohibiting privacy coins?

Heavily regulating exchanges is one thing. Prohibiting anonymous currency is another. If they haven't made cash illegal, then there isn't much legal rationale to prohibit privacy coins.

Japan is applying soft pressure, requiring that exchanges de-list privacy coins before obtaining licenses. I think we'll see more of that behavior. But that won't stop people from using Monero globally, both inside and outside of jurisdictions that are exerting pressure on exchanges.

Slow death

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It will be a very problematic discussion in the future. On the one hand, there are governments that use the argument that cryptocurrencies can be used for crime and terrorist financing and so they must be properly regulated and oblige people to do KYC, But how will coins like the monero survive? In a world where every day exchanges are demanding KYC and governments are exerting regulatory pressure, is there any future for anonymous currencies like monero?

joelsamuya

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Of course, it is not good because the banking industry will never be the same because of this development on the horizon and if they are not careful they can easily be wiped out. And yes, even if bankers do not like cryptoconcurrency in general, they are actually taking the steps necessary to answer this challenge -- either they adopt to these changes or they can be left behind at the end. If bankers are allowed to decide on this matter, they will say NO good for us that this time around the power seems on the hand of the people. Either they adopt or they perish...

cr1776

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Quote

Bank of America CEO: Anonymous currencies are not good
Jul. 22, 2019 - 6:25 - Bank of America CEO Brian Moynihan on technology’s impact on banking, cryptocurrency and the impact of a potential Federal Reserve interest rate cut.

https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/6062588247001/#sp=show-clips

While I agree with Moynihan about a number of things, I think he is having to toe the line due to the political pressure being brought to bear around the world.

Anonymity is critical for freedom around the world. Anonymous speech is important and you can't fund it if you aren't allowed some anonymous currencies. Cash is a perfect example of an anonymous currency and limiting anonymous currencies limits speech.

Topic: 2019-07-23 Fox Business - BAC CEO, Anonymous Crypto Currencies are not good (Read 227 times)