[2019-07-24] Circle and Poloniex moving from the US, regulatory uncertainty

deisik

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Quote from: Kakmakr on July 24, 2019, 01:37:38 AM

Can you imagine what would happen if a large company like Coinbase or Overstock would make the same decision now? Donald Trump is saying he wants to protect local jobs and create new job opportunities, but he smack tweets Bitcoin and in doing this, chase away legitimate companies that wants to operate legally in the US

Don't take the words of Trump and his likes at their face value

Today they can say one thing and tomorrow they say the exact opposite like they have always said (and thought) so. These people don't give a slightest fuck about Bitcoin (and most other things, for that matter) as they are only interested in gaining more power (and not losing it in the process). In case of Trump specifically, he is going to run for POTUS next year, so anything he says (and more importantly, what he does) should be considered from this angle

Regarding the questions raised in the OP, cryptocurrency operations are not bound to any specific area (apart from their client base), so if it means moving out of the US jurisdiction, they will do that without any second thought. Technically, the American government is shooting themselves in the foot with such acts, but more power to them if they choose so. Really, who are we to stop them and why? Let them dig their own grave

bbc.reporter

legendary

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My prediction that Coinbase is next might be wrong. The regulators might not go after them. They might have already been cooperating with the IRS and might have given up their users' data.

Are the 10,000 recipients Coinbase users?

The IRS stated that the names of the individuals in questions “were obtained through various ongoing IRS compliance efforts.” However, anecdotal evidence on social media suggests that the 10,000+ affected are the Coinbase users whose details were shared with the IRS after an IRS summons forced the exchange to hand over names, birth dates, taxpayer IDs, addresses, and transactions histories of approximately 13,000 customers in February 2018.

A bitcoin investor who received a letter shared their experience talking to an IRS agent about the notices and was able to provide further insight into who the notices were sent to.

Under the username “zipzapbloop”, the Coinbase user stated on Reddit: “I just got off the phone with a very kind IRS agent who explained much of what we've already gathered. If you got 6174 or 6174-A, then unless you have good reason to believe you didn't comply, then treat the letters as essentially informational. She stated that their resources are very limited and even said that the letters were sent to some 13,000 who had Coinbase accounts. Yes, she actually said "Coinbase accounts."

Read in full https://bravenewcoin.com/insights/is-the-irs-crackdown-on-crypto-traders-a-sign-of-a-maturing-market

bbc.reporter

legendary

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@stompix. Double standard on who? The American government? I would not feel bad about that. They are the most powerful country in the world and it is true, the American government is evil hehehe.

stompix

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Blackjack.fun

Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 30, 2019, 09:49:47 PM

@stompix. I know the news article's title is moderately clickbait hehehe. However, what Circle calls their expansion might really be a strategy of protection from America's regulatory uncertainty.

It's because this is one semi-example of the double standard I don't like.

So, If an exchange opens up a branch in another country, it's because of the pressure of the US regulation and for others here further proof that the US is cracking down on exchanges and cryptos and iz evilz
Binance fleeing in the middle of the night from Japan and 3 other exchanges following because they couldn't cope with the laws there is...meh Japan is the greatest for crypto, go Japan, go Japan..

I don't why people are like this
The US plans to pass some laws...the government will harm bitcoin!!!
The last dictator in Europe passing some crypto laws...wow, the Belarus government is so great!

bbc.reporter

legendary

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@stompix. I know the news article's title is moderately clickbait hehehe. However, what Circle calls their expansion might really be a strategy of protection from America's regulatory uncertainty.

Bittrex, also an American exchange, has already done something similar.

stompix

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Blackjack.fun

Why do I still read the press section, why ?!?!?!?!?!

https://blog.circle.com/2019/07/22/circle-expands-international-offerings-with-new-bermuda-operations-and-digital-assets-business-license/

Quote

Circle Expands International Offerings with New Bermuda Operations and Digital Assets Business License

Quote

Today, we’re expanding our global offerings with the launch and regulatory licensing of a new subsidiary in Bermuda. We plan to serve non-US Poloniex customers with our new Bermuda operations, and we expect to offer many new digital asset services from Bermuda over time. We will also continue our existing operations in the US, Ireland, the UK, and Hong Kong.

In the near term, non-US customers will use Poloniex through our new Circle International Bermuda entity. This transition will open the door for non-US customers to access an exciting roadmap of new capabilities we plan to release in the coming months including new crypto asset listings, advanced trading products, and other innovations.

Nobody is moving outside the US, it's simply that they can't offer all their shitty deals while staying there.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on July 25, 2019, 02:46:01 PM

Quote from: Slow death on July 25, 2019, 09:23:54 AM

US Treasury Secretary Mnuchin Voices New Pessimism About Bitcoin’s Future

we see an uncertain future for bitcoin in the US and this is because of US regulators

tbh id be bearish if mnuchin said he loved bitcoin.

all this continued attention from the most powerful people in washington seems bullish. anyone remember the senate hearings in 2013? some congresspeople were talking about banning bitcoin at the time (and some still are today) but we went to the moon anyway. there seems to be quite a bit of acknowledgment among USA legislators/regulators that trying to strangle the american crypto sector won't work and will only hurt the country economically.

However, those bullish legislators' and regulators 'opinions can also change. We should not forget that they are politicians. They act according to their own self interest hehehe.

rodel caling

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This a new challenge for the us crypto ethusiasm, poliniex is no choices for this regulations order of the US government. The company need to admit this order and to,the law of the country but sad to say this regulation have an effect for the crypto anonymity for sur government force to require users submit identity information.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: Slow death on July 25, 2019, 09:23:54 AM

US Treasury Secretary Mnuchin Voices New Pessimism About Bitcoin’s Future

we see an uncertain future for bitcoin in the US and this is because of US regulators

tbh id be bearish if mnuchin said he loved bitcoin.

all this continued attention from the most powerful people in washington seems bullish. anyone remember the senate hearings in 2013? some congresspeople were talking about banning bitcoin at the time (and some still are today) but we went to the moon anyway. there seems to be quite a bit of acknowledgment among USA legislators/regulators that trying to strangle the american crypto sector won't work and will only hurt the country economically.

Slow death

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 24, 2019, 09:53:12 PM

It is only from my own speculation and opinion. If Goldman Sach's Circle is leaving American soil, I reckon there might be a big cryptospace persecution approaching.

I agree, if we look at the latest news:

JUL 24, 2019

US Senate to Hold Debate on Crypto, Blockchain Regulatory Frameworks

13 HOURS AGO

US Treasury Secretary Mnuchin Voices New Pessimism About Bitcoin’s Future

we see an uncertain future for bitcoin in the US and this is because of US regulators

bbc.reporter

legendary

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Quote from: squatter on July 24, 2019, 04:32:35 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 23, 2019, 09:12:51 PM

I reckon that there might be another round of regulatory pressure on exchanges that are operating in America. Bitfinex and Bitmex have felt the American government's displeasure of their presence.

I predict that Coinbase is next.

Of any exchange, why Coinbase? They've always played by the book -- licenses, mandatory KYC. They even terminate accounts over gambling activity per federal law.

They seem much more interested in offshore entities that don't play by the book. I think Bitfinex and BitMEX are still the biggest targets.

It is only from my own speculation and opinion. If Goldman Sach's Circle is leaving American soil, I reckon there might be a big cryptospace persecution approaching.

The politicians might not stop until they have all of it under their control. Coinbase was allegedly participating in insider trading, did it not? True or not, anything will get their attention.

US Senate Plans Hearing to Scrutinize Future of Bitcoin and Crypto

United States senators plan to dive into crypto during a committee hearing on digital currencies and blockchain next week.

The Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs has scheduled an open session hearing titled “Examining Regulatory Frameworks for Digital Currencies and Blockchain” for Tuesday, July 30, according to a Senate press release.

Jeremy Allaire, the co-founder, chairman and CEO of peer-to-peer payments fintech company Circle, plans to testify on behalf of the Blockchain Association.

Rebecca M. Nelson, a specialist in international trade and finance for the Congressional Research Service, and Mehrsa Baradaran, a professor of law at the University of California Irvine School of Law, are also scheduled to testify. Baradaran has extensive expertise in banking law.

It follows two congressional hearings on Facebook’s controversial Libra project held earlier this month, which also featured discussions on crypto.

The hearing will be webcast live and is scheduled to begin at 10:00 a.m. EST.

Source https://dailyhodl.com/2019/07/24/us-senate-plans-hearing-to-scrutinize-future-of-bitcoin-and-crypto/

BitHodler

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Bitfinex and BitMEX don't intend to become compliant, so from there they will always look for ways to avoid serving US traders in an attempt to prevent the world police from knocking on their door. Both however have failed to do so.

Overall, I'm not shocked to see crypto related businesses relocate themselves because of how the US market is so over-regulated and tied to their old fashion laws, that nothing of significance will likely change in the coming years.

This is how Coinbase will remain the top exchange within the US by far. They literally laugh their way to the bank with how the government indirectly helps them to get rid of competing exchanges.

hatshepsut93

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I'm not from the US, but this is worrying, seeing America quickly becoming so hostile to crypto is not a good sign, since it is the most influential country of all, and many other countries might take it as a signal to also get hostile towards crypto. Also the US population is the most active with Bitcoin - it has the highest amount of nodes, many startups and companies built around crypto, it would be very bad for Bitcoin to lose them.

Arkham Knight

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That's a shame. I guess these big crypto companies like Coinbase will have to focus their markets on Europe, Russia and Asian countries. And I also feel that it is going to happen in the long run because their big boss Trump is not really impressed with the blockchain technology. Trump only cares and protect and what he has which is a lot of fiat.

davis196

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If the big crypto exchange platforms like Coinbase,Poloniex and Circle move outside the USA,then I think that a big bear trend is coming and this year might be like 2018.The USA simply won't let bitcoin to have a steady bull rally and won't accept mass crypto adoption.
Let's HODL and wait for the 2020 BTC halvng.

joelsamuya

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From the business point of view, we know that the USA market remains to be very lucrative and most of these companies still have the desire to continue capturing slices of this market but as part of the long-term and precautionary plan they are expanding overseas so that come what may they are all prepared for any eventuality. This is just a wise move considering that there is no guarantee that the USA government will fully support this growing but still fledgling industry. I am sure this is a big good news to many small countries who are already putting up campaigns to attract players into their locations. What can be a loss to one country can be a big opportunity to another one.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 23, 2019, 09:12:51 PM

I reckon that there might be another round of regulatory pressure on exchanges that are operating in America. Bitfinex and Bitmex have felt the American government's displeasure of their presence.

I predict that Coinbase is next.

Of any exchange, why Coinbase? They've always played by the book -- licenses, mandatory KYC. They even terminate accounts over gambling activity per federal law.

They seem much more interested in offshore entities that don't play by the book. I think Bitfinex and BitMEX are still the biggest targets.

Quote from: buwaytress on July 23, 2019, 11:20:04 PM

I know it ain't easy for them in the US, but I'm not sure they'll be chased out.

If anything, they stand to consolidate even more market share as new regulations and increased enforcement kills their competition.

eaLiTy

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Have Fun )@@( Stay Safe

Quote from: Kakmakr on July 24, 2019, 01:37:38 AM

Can you imagine what would happen if a large company like Coinbase or Overstock would make the same decision now? Donald Trump is saying he wants to protect local jobs and create new job opportunities, but he smack tweets Bitcoin and in doing this, chase away legitimate companies that wants to operate legally in the US.

You really cannot blame Trump alone for this situation, the system has to be blamed as he cannot single handedly pass every law, he does have a personality that we have not seen in any other president before and he is open about his views which is a good thing rather than having a sheep's clothing, but wolves inside Wink

.

If the regulatory authorities force them they will move out to good pastures which will give them protection and tax leverages and many countries will welcome these companies with open arms as these companies will help them in their economy.

Lucius

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This should be free world, if some company not like the conditions it has in one country then why not to move elsewhere. We see same thing when China is start closing crypto exchanges and when they start giving signals to miners to start packing, they find some new location and they continue their operations.

I think that recent Trump tweets and U.S. Department of the Treasury Mnuchin press conference somehow show what the top American policy think about cryptocurrency, and smart people always act on time and start looking for solutions.

By some data Coinbase is have in total around 1060 employees, but some of them are outside of US so this is not some big company. In case that all crypto exchanges move from US, there are probably several thousand jobs that would be lost. For Trump and his policy of preserving the dollar as the dominant world reserve currency this is a small price to pay.

Kakmakr

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The same thing happened when NY announced the introduction of the controversial "BitLicense". Companies move their operations to more Bitcoin friendly locations or States or even other countries and they take their job opportunities and tax income for their government to those locations.

Can you imagine what would happen if a large company like Coinbase or Overstock would make the same decision now? Donald Trump is saying he wants to protect local jobs and create new job opportunities, but he smack tweets Bitcoin and in doing this, chase away legitimate companies that wants to operate legally in the US. Roll Eyes

buwaytress

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I know it ain't easy for them in the US, but I'm not sure they'll be chased out. They want to keep the business there, at least, I thought the guys like Coinbase and Bitpay do. They'll also want to expand sure, Coinbase did to the UK and will do so in parts of Europe. Bitpay's already recruiting in the EU so that's a matter of time too.

Suppose it could be tax but if it's just for tax structuring but they could easily benefit the same way moving into another state jurisdiction in the US no?

bbc.reporter

legendary

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I reckon that there might be another round of regulatory pressure on exchanges that are operating in America. Bitfinex and Bitmex have felt the American government's displeasure of their presence.

I predict that Coinbase is next.

Crypto conglomerate Circle announced that it will be moving the majority of its operations offshore, as regulatory uncertainty has made servicing U.S. customers increasingly difficult. The company received a full Digital Assets Business Act license in Bermuda for Poloniex, a cryptocurrency exchange it runs.

The increased regulatory uncertainty about the future of the crypto industry in the U.S. has forced many companies to move their operations to more crypto-friendly markets. Bermuda, which recently imposed a comprehensive regulatory framework regarding digital assets, has been a favorite destination for up and coming crypto companies looking for a stable environment.

Read in full https://cryptoslate.com/circle-poloniex-us-bermuda-regulatory-uncertainty/

Topic: [2019-07-24] Circle and Poloniex moving from the US, regulatory uncertainty (Read 337 times)