[2019-11-05] Independent: "Bitcoin’s record price surge of 2017 was caused..."

BitHodler

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Quote from: Slow death on November 08, 2019, 01:41:18 AM

I do not see the reason for discussing an incomplete article, without proof and which has no objectivity. If someone accuses X, then that person must show proof that X has infringed.

Speculation is apparently proof enough for these "researchers". I don't think anyone really cares nowadays because it's clear what their plan is, which is to discourage people from using and investing in Bitcoin.

Tether has always been an easy bug to squash, so expect much more of these conspiracy theories in the coming years, especially when Tether starts printing coins again, which I'm sure they will when the next hype takes off.

Kraken this year confirmed that each time Tether printed coins, they experienced an influx of fiat flowing into their exchange, which means that it aligns with healthy buy the dip or fomo stages of this market.

Norton1993

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Quote from: pawel7777 on November 06, 2019, 06:48:31 AM

Bitcoin’s record price surge of 2017 was caused by a single person, study claims

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/bitcoin-price-record-2017-buy-cryptocurrency-whale-a9185451.html

Quote

Bitcoin's dramatic price surge in 2017 that saw it reach record highs was caused by a single cryptocurrency trader, according to a new study.

University of Texas Professor John Griffin and Ohio State Assistant Professor Amin Shams claim their latest research of bitcoin transactions between March 2017 and March 2018 shows that bitcoin was manipulated through large-volume trades that drove the price up.
...

I saw a few posts saying that bitcoin is manipulate by people here: http://bittokens.icu/tags/%E5%B8%82%E5%A0%B4%E6%93%8D%E7%B8%B1/

Slow death

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Quote from: pawel7777 on November 06, 2019, 06:48:31 AM

Bitcoin’s record price surge of 2017 was caused by a single person, study claims

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/bitcoin-price-record-2017-buy-cryptocurrency-whale-a9185451.html

Quote

Bitcoin's dramatic price surge in 2017 that saw it reach record highs was caused by a single cryptocurrency trader, according to a new study.

University of Texas Professor John Griffin and Ohio State Assistant Professor Amin Shams claim their latest research of bitcoin transactions between March 2017 and March 2018 shows that bitcoin was manipulated through large-volume trades that drove the price up.
...

This article does not provide any proof and only in 2 very short paragraphs that talk about the subject of the title and then deviated from the title. I do not see the reason for discussing an incomplete article, without proof and which has no objectivity. If someone accuses X, then that person must show proof that X has infringed. This is something that everyone knows, so what is the reason for writing things like this: "Bitcoin's record price comes from 2017 was caused ...", but there is no proof.

Kakmakr

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Just look a little deeper into this article and you will see that there are no broad and detailed explanation of how they got to this conclusion. It is just a click bait article that is making some unsubstantiated claim and then they mention that this was based on the University of Texas Professor John Griffin and Ohio State Assistant Professor Amin Shams research, with no link to their actual research.

You will also notice that these people are also on some kind of crusade against Bitcoin and Crypto currencies, based on their previous research. https://www.ccn.com/tether-fires-back-at-embarrassing-bitcoin-manipulation-study/

Getmon

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Quote from: CryptoBry on November 07, 2019, 09:36:42 PM

Quote from: pawel7777 on November 06, 2019, 06:48:31 AM

Bitcoin’s record price surge of 2017 was caused by a single person, study claims

I am sure we should be looking for this guy so that he can also be working to make the next bull run in 2020. This is just another one of the many funny and outrageous articles that came lately in crypto-related media but the one mentioned above seems to me should be getting the top prize as the most funny of them all. How can a single person orchestrated to manipulate a billion-dollar market and gets the whole credit for himself? Maybe that needs a follow-up article detailing to us that funny story...

They just won't stop hunting for reasons that will explain why the price of bitcoin and many altcoins rose to an unbelievable level in 2017 and early days of 2018. And look what they ended up? Stories that are ridiculous. What do they imply by hunting the reason or person that caused the 2017 bull run? Do they think it was just a simple mistake or pure manipulation of a few? Do they not trust that it could be organic after all?

CryptoBry

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Quote from: pawel7777 on November 06, 2019, 06:48:31 AM

Bitcoin’s record price surge of 2017 was caused by a single person, study claims

I am sure we should be looking for this guy so that he can also be working to make the next bull run in 2020. This is just another one of the many funny and outrageous articles that came lately in crypto-related media but the one mentioned above seems to me should be getting the top prize as the most funny of them all. How can a single person orchestrated to manipulate a billion-dollar market and gets the whole credit for himself? Maybe that needs a follow-up article detailing to us that funny story...

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on November 07, 2019, 11:03:52 AM

I heard similar rumors about the 2013 bull run as well (when the exchange rates went up from $5 to $1261). But back then it was more believable. The accusation was that Mt Gox rigged the exchange rates and this caused the Bitcoin prices to rally. Back then there were only a few exchanges operating, so there is a chance for that happening. But how can this be possible in 2017, when there were hundreds (if not thousands) of exchanges. Is it possible to manipulate all these exchanges, which are spread out all over the globe?

devil's advocate: hundreds of exchanges list USDT pairs. in fact for most of them, these are the only liquid "fiat" pairs. bots/algorithms respond to price moves at bitfinex and the biggest USDT markets like binance because from a volume/arbitrage perspective they should have a significant influence over the market. USDT's daily volume ($27 billion in the last 24 hours) surpasses that of BTC so it certainly can't be ignored. tether is effectively one of the world's largest exchanges so it should greatly affect price.

that's still a far cry from claims about "manipulation" though. if that's the standard being set, then every asset on earth is manipulated.

the only evidence being presented here is this:
1. someone tried to buy a lot of bitcoins via tether
2. this created a situation where demand outweighed supply
3. the price of bitcoins went up afterwards

it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why price went up. for university professors, these guys seem pretty retarded.

Vishnu.Reang

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I heard similar rumors about the 2013 bull run as well (when the exchange rates went up from $5 to $1261). But back then it was more believable. The accusation was that Mt Gox rigged the exchange rates and this caused the Bitcoin prices to rally. Back then there were only a few exchanges operating, so there is a chance for that happening. But how can this be possible in 2017, when there were hundreds (if not thousands) of exchanges. Is it possible to manipulate all these exchanges, which are spread out all over the globe?

adeandro

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I hope the surge will happen in 2020, much points to this.

leea-1334

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Do you guys think that it is strange that within a week of each other, two different researchers who claim to be independent are both publishing reports about Tether manipulating Bitcoin?

I agree Tether is shady,,, but even if all that happened was true, there is no way it could affect Bitcoin price on such a global scale. They clearly think Bitcoin is something easily manipulated.

hello_good_sir

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Quote from: pixie85 on November 06, 2019, 04:47:12 PM

A single person wouldn't have enough money.

There were thousands of trades executed on each exchange every day. That whale would have to set up bots all around the world wire millions of dollars to every exchange and keep them running for days buying. This is impossible even if you have the money to do it. He would need a whole building full of people trading for him 24/7 and it still wouldn't be enough.

That's literally what it comes down to. No one, except huge companies or governments, would be able to manipulate the market so much, making bitcoin pump 4x in a month.

It doesn't matter, either way, it's likely going to come to a range of factors, people snowballing, a lot of media attention, whales trying to manipulate the prices, etc.

pixie85

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A single person wouldn't have enough money.

There were thousands of trades executed on each exchange every day. That whale would have to set up bots all around the world wire millions of dollars to every exchange and keep them running for days buying. This is impossible even if you have the money to do it. He would need a whole building full of people trading for him 24/7 and it still wouldn't be enough.

figmentofmyass

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was that single trader accumulating massive amounts of bitcoins on the spot market? lower supply should cause the price to rise.

Quote from: 1Referee on November 06, 2019, 07:29:21 AM

When a noob gamer gets outclassed by a more skilled gamer, the first thing you'll hear the noob gamer say is; you're a cheater! People supporting the legacy financial system are exactly like that. Bitcoin is a fraud, it's being manipulated, all transactions are fake, nobody is using it, bla bla. At one point you expect these sore losers to give up but they are persistent as fuck.

after the 2013 bubble, people cried "but the willy bot!" too. same shit, different day.

even if one entity did somehow persuade the market into a bull run ( Roll Eyes

) the fact is that real people were paying $1200 in 2013 and $20k in 2017. that's all that matters.

darkangel11

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Total bullshit and there's an easy way to prove this study wrong. Had this single whale traded with himself there would not have to be a lot of transaction increase at that time but the reality was different. There was such a big increase of transactions in 2017 that hyperinflated the fees and some people were paying $100 to push their money through. Even Roger Ver was making money by offering people to unstuck their transactions for a fee.

How come all blocks were getting filled when it was just one whale trading? How come a single trader can keep buying for weeks, every single day, every single hour on multiple exchanges? The volume on bitstamp in December 2017 was 20k - 30k bitcoins. 300 million dollars traded every day! One hell of a whale Wink

This is almost as good as the FUD that your address will get hacked by a quantum computer.

Harlot

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If you read the article entirely you will see that even them didn't explain what was the headline about and then instead created a whole new conversation of a different topic. I spend my time reading it seeing if there is anything true about one big whale influencing the prices but at the end I just wasted my time on another clickbait article. The headline is just a clickbait for a shitty article and they didn't even spend time on saying who this single entity is which really proves nothing of his existence. You will usually see these kinds of articles that they want more impact on their headline rather than having actual readers of the article, they just want views and they really don't want to share any kind of important information to us.

milewilda

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Quote from: pawel7777 on November 06, 2019, 06:48:31 AM

Bitcoin’s record price surge of 2017 was caused by a single person, study claims

People havent moved on yet? Then what would be the thing if they do discover out that the market been moved by a single entity?
We cant really just forget on how the past prices did perform.Single entity or not the market been driven out into those insane prices.
Im having the same thoughts too on what would be their next guesses or things that would spit out into their mouth if there would be an
another shoot up of prices.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: 1Referee on November 06, 2019, 07:29:21 AM

I'm ready for the insightful breakdown of the next bull run from $20,000 to $100,000. Must be one heck of a good read.

I'm totally up for having more purchasing power using my fake, manipulated, darkweb magical internet not-money Cheesy

I'm sure the ~~haters~~ realists are content with their real, official, steadily declining in value permission-to-buy-things money too Grin

LeGaulois

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This is not the first study, each time with the same argument and again they are wrong. This recent study used wrong data and statistics so it can only give the wrong result. The paper gives zero evidence.

I remember to read another academic paper saying otherwise while using VAR model (Vector autoregression) and it's surely not the only one to refute this argument. Media recycle arguments every 2-3 years to deny Bitcoin, but the answer is the same

1Referee

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I wonder what single person/entity funded this article to be distributed so widely. Tongue

When a noob gamer gets outclassed by a more skilled gamer, the first thing you'll hear the noob gamer say is; you're a cheater! People supporting the legacy financial system are exactly like that. Bitcoin is a fraud, it's being manipulated, all transactions are fake, nobody is using it, bla bla. At one point you expect these sore losers to give up but they are persistent as fuck.

I'm ready for the insightful breakdown of the next bull run from $20,000 to $100,000. Must be one heck of a good read.

pawel7777

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Bitcoin’s record price surge of 2017 was caused by a single person, study claims

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/bitcoin-price-record-2017-buy-cryptocurrency-whale-a9185451.html

Quote

Bitcoin's dramatic price surge in 2017 that saw it reach record highs was caused by a single cryptocurrency trader, according to a new study.

University of Texas Professor John Griffin and Ohio State Assistant Professor Amin Shams claim their latest research of bitcoin transactions between March 2017 and March 2018 shows that bitcoin was manipulated through large-volume trades that drove the price up.
...

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