[2020-01-31] Senior Adviser / Operator Of The “Silk Road” Website Pleads Guilty

cr1776

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on February 25, 2020, 10:50:13 PM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 24, 2020, 09:46:34 PM

@Vishnu.Reang. LSD and cocaine are not soft drugs. LSD is dangerous because it causes extreme hallucinations. Cocaine is one of the most addicitve drug in the world. However, agreed that they are less dangerous than Fentanyl and Fentanyl derivatives.

I have never heard about anyone dying of overdose from LSD or cocaine (unlike the case with synthetic opioids). If LSD can give hallucinations without serious side effects, then it is less dangerous, right? And this is one of the reasons why I am in favor of legalization of soft drugs. Here by grouping soft drugs with lethal ones manufactured by the pharma mafia, the government is actually increasing the harm.

Crack cocaine can kill, not to mention tainted cocaine can and does kill. I would wonder about the people making it, what if they screw up? What if the dealer cuts it with something lethal? It just isn't worth the risk to me to do any of this stuff. (By the way, to one of the people above, I don't touch anything either - clean living. No alcohol or drugs etc. I enjoy my life without needing any of them.)

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: malevolent on February 25, 2020, 11:35:56 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 24, 2020, 09:46:34 PM

The murder was clearly used to frame Ross.

(Alleged...) attempted murders

so, this is you walking back your strongly stated conviction that Ross Ulbricht paid someone to kill someone else based on an unreliable testimony? Humility much?

Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 25, 2020, 08:25:22 PM

Also, did you know that the Unabomber was part of a CIA mindcontrol, LSD experiment in Harvard.

Please stop posting, you're constantly repeating highly unreliable claims

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 24, 2020, 09:46:34 PM

@Vishnu.Reang. LSD and cocaine are not soft drugs. LSD is dangerous because it causes extreme hallucinations. Cocaine is one of the most addicitve drug in the world. However, agreed that they are less dangerous than Fentanyl and Fentanyl derivatives.

I have never heard about anyone dying of overdose from LSD or cocaine (unlike the case with synthetic opioids). If LSD can give hallucinations without serious side effects, then it is less dangerous, right? And this is one of the reasons why I am in favor of legalization of soft drugs. Here by grouping soft drugs with lethal ones manufactured by the pharma mafia, the government is actually increasing the harm.

bbc.reporter

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@malevolent. Yes it is arguable if dangerous or not, however, I reckon we can agree that it is not a soft drug.

Also, did you know that the Unabomber was part of a CIA mindcontrol, LSD experiment in Harvard.

gentlemand

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Quote from: malevolent on February 25, 2020, 11:35:56 AM

How are these supposed to make it dangerous? Not really dangerous unless abused.

I can think of a couple of people who were severely fucked up by it, as in the lights being on but no one really being home any more. They went from bright young things to people who sit in their bedrooms and rarely open their mouths. One turned out like that after being dosed once. The other caned it for a few weeks and never came back either.

They were possibly predisposed to psychiatric problems, but I've always been a bit amazed at how willing people are to tamper with their infinitely delicate brain chemistry. I'll never touch it.

malevolent

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 24, 2020, 09:46:34 PM

The murder was clearly used to frame Ross.

(Alleged...) attempted murders

Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 24, 2020, 09:46:34 PM

LSD is dangerous because it causes extreme hallucinations.

How are these supposed to make it dangerous? Not really dangerous unless abused.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: gentlemand on February 23, 2020, 05:13:32 PM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on February 23, 2020, 05:07:17 PM

were people actually selling kilos of coke and heroin retail on SR? i always thought it was much more of a recreational scene. i have a friend who used to buy eighths of weed there. i never actually used it myself---too sketched out about having drugs mailed to my house.

Aye. Curtis Green, the bloke who was 'assassinated' by the bent DEA agent by being photographed with chicken soup on his chin and pretending to be dead was busted having been sent a kilo of coke. Probably by the DEA though.

I seem to recall some pretty high turnovers from real people.

The amounts don't really matter, it all comes from the same source, but possibly the same DEA guy was proposing the Masters of Silk Road or something that was going to be some type of wholesale operation. It was probably total hogwash but was under consideration.

He might be a DEA informant from the very beginning. The murder was clearly used to frame Ross.

@Vishnu.Reang. LSD and cocaine are not soft drugs. LSD is dangerous because it causes extreme hallucinations. Cocaine is one of the most addicitve drug in the world. However, agreed that they are less dangerous than Fentanyl and Fentanyl derivatives.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on February 23, 2020, 05:07:17 PM

were people actually selling kilos of coke and heroin retail on SR? i always thought it was much more of a recreational scene. i have a friend who used to buy eighths of weed there. i never actually used it myself---too sketched out about having drugs mailed to my house.

Weed is becoming increasingly legal across the globe. Many of the US states have legalized it and so if you are ready to travel, then you can legally purchase weed without any harassment from the cops. But the same isn't true with the other soft drugs such as LSD and coke. And ironically, lethal drugs such as fentanyl are popular in those states where soft drugs such as weed are not legal.

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on February 23, 2020, 05:07:17 PM

were people actually selling kilos of coke and heroin retail on SR? i always thought it was much more of a recreational scene. i have a friend who used to buy eighths of weed there. i never actually used it myself---too sketched out about having drugs mailed to my house.

Aye. Curtis Green, the bloke who was 'assassinated' by the bent DEA agent by being photographed with chicken soup on his chin and pretending to be dead was busted having been sent a kilo of coke. Probably by the DEA though.

I seem to recall some pretty high turnovers from real people.

The amounts don't really matter, it all comes from the same source, but possibly the same DEA guy was proposing the Masters of Silk Road or something that was going to be some type of wholesale operation. It was probably total hogwash but was under consideration.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: gentlemand on February 23, 2020, 04:58:16 PM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on February 23, 2020, 02:28:07 PM

what else could have been done? it's a matter of free markets. ross built it; it's up to the producers to come. for all we know, SR did link consumers directly with producers.

I'm sure he did. But his ethos was also about selling things that didn't hurt or harm other people. That's not to mean the drugs themselves, that's on whoever takes it and go for it if that's your thing, but a kilo of coke or heroin has more horror mixed into it than the stolen items he wouldn't allow sold.

Hooking people up with others who make acid, meth, speed, MDMA etc. is fine with me. The other stuff did not come out of some guy's garage.

were people actually selling kilos of coke and heroin retail on SR? i always thought it was much more of a recreational scene. i have a friend who used to buy eighths of weed there. i never actually used it myself---too sketched out about having drugs mailed to my house.

gentlemand

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on February 23, 2020, 02:28:07 PM

what else could have been done? it's a matter of free markets. ross built it; it's up to the producers to come. for all we know, SR did link consumers directly with producers.

I'm sure he did. But his ethos was also about selling things that didn't hurt or harm other people. That's not to mean the drugs themselves, that's on whoever takes it and go for it if that's your thing, but a kilo of coke or heroin has more horror mixed into it than the stolen items he wouldn't allow sold.

Hooking people up with others who make acid, meth, speed, MDMA etc. is fine with me. The other stuff did not come out of some guy's garage.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: gentlemand on February 23, 2020, 12:44:14 PM

That's my main beef with it. I'm sure it prevented some street level unpleasantness. It did nothing to combat the blood letting in the production and distribution process.

drug prohibition makes that sort of violence inevitable. there isn't much that marketplaces can do to alleviate that.

Quote from: gentlemand on February 23, 2020, 12:44:14 PM

If it had been my pet I would've done my very best to link user directly to maker

what else could have been done? it's a matter of free markets. ross built it; it's up to the producers to come. for all we know, SR did link consumers directly with producers.

gentlemand

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 21, 2020, 09:17:58 PM

The skeptical me would think that some criminal drug syndicates might have helped the FBI on the framing of Ross and the takedown of the Silk Road. It was becoming very big and was beginning to be a brand name for drugs and the Dread Pirate Roberts persona an icon on the internet.

Silk Road was end stage retail. A bunch of internet libertarians do not go out and secure their own refining of opium and coca paste. It all comes from the same sources and distribution.

Had it survived I'm sure the druggist heavyweights would've been delighted to keep supplying markets that otherwise wouldn't exist.

That's my main beef with it. I'm sure it prevented some street level unpleasantness. It did nothing to combat the blood letting in the production and distribution process. If it had been my pet I would've done my very best to link user directly to maker which I guess would mean no coke or heroin.

Selling his own shrooms is how the whole thing started.

Harlot

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 21, 2020, 09:17:58 PM

The skeptical me would think that some criminal drug syndicates might have helped the FBI on the framing of Ross and the takedown of the Silk Road. It was becoming very big and was beginning to be a brand name for drugs and the Dread Pirate Roberts persona an icon on the internet.

There is a lot of possibilities here but I don't see the "competition" angle as one of the possibilities here. Drug syndicates have a different market compared to the ones being handled by their Silk Road, their operations are more violent and is their transactions require for your to physically appear, Silk Road on the other hand is different in the senses that their customers are mostly users not dealers. Other than that I haven't seen any threats to Ulbricht and Roger Clark by these criminals which says that they don't really care about him being in the scene. Silk Road was bound to close especially when their operations are under one of the government's project, they obviously have the power to monitor the activities of that site and they can also track them down.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 21, 2020, 09:17:58 PM

The skeptical me would think that some criminal drug syndicates might have helped the FBI on the framing of Ross and the takedown of the Silk Road. It was becoming very big and was beginning to be a brand name for drugs and the Dread Pirate Roberts persona an icon on the internet.

Silk Road made available high quality drugs at cheap rates. Now just think who lost their profits as a result of this. A few that comes to my mind are Mexican drug cartels, street drug vendors, pharma giants, big banks such as HSBC (who help to launder the money from cartels).etc. Like it or not, but Silk Road helped to avoid thousands of deaths due to overdose.

bbc.reporter

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The skeptical me would think that some criminal drug syndicates might have helped the FBI on the framing of Ross and the takedown of the Silk Road. It was becoming very big and was beginning to be a brand name for drugs and the Dread Pirate Roberts persona an icon on the internet.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: malevolent on February 20, 2020, 01:38:25 PM

Agreeing with Variety Jones to pay someone (in this case people employed by the USA) to have several people killed definitely does make him at least a bit of a sleazy person.

that's an unsubstantiated allegation

the fact that those chat logs were in any way authentic at all is impossible to prove, you're simply trusting that members of the investigating FBI team when they say "we recorded this private chat on the Silk Road website's server". It would be very easy to produce a bunch of chatlogs that never took place, there is no meaningful way to prove authenticity for such data. And the FBI have an entirely appalling record for falsifying evidence in all manner of cases, stretching back several decades

why are you repeating this allegation as if it was fact, when in reality there is no proof whatsoever? In an investigation prosecuted by a known-corrupt enforcement agency?

eaLiTy

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 20, 2020, 10:16:28 PM

The government is fearful of people meeting together to talk and in time begin creating their own ideology. How do you think the Americans began their movement to revolt versus the British?

Usually the enforcement authorities will participate in these events in disguise to monitor the event if it has gained traction and DEF CON is one such event where all the major law enforcement authorities participate from the FBI, USPIS, DHS, Department of Defense to name a few to follow the trends and innovations they bring up in these gatherings.

Quote from: bryant.coleman on January 31, 2020, 09:51:38 PM

You can jail everyone who deal with narcotics, and fill the jails with such people. But it is not going to work.

The fear of spending the rest of your life inside a prison will deter many away from doing these kind of activities and that is a reality.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 20, 2020, 10:16:28 PM

Dark markets will remain as long as the demand is there. And with time, they will get more innovative. The governments should treat drug usage as individual choice.

This is not going to happen as you cannot declare drug usage as individual choices, the idea is to stop new users starting to use drugs and the main problem with dark market is that children can very well get hold of these easily.

zakoliverz

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I'm not one to gloat over anyone's misfortune - but I have observed that often - if you live life badly - in many ways you seal your own fate - due to the bad choices you made - and the people who you ran over - on the road to where ever it was you were going to - in such a hurry - and for that there must be some payback.

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Quote from: Betwrong on February 20, 2020, 05:02:50 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 19, 2020, 07:47:10 PM

@Betwrong. It was administered by a person who is not a criminal. He was a physics major, a scientist and he has created the Silk Road to be an experiment on real freedom on the internet. It was not only for the drugs. I reckon the American government punished him severely out of fear of creating a people's movement.

I don't know, what they were fearing of, but what I do know is that this system will collapse pretty soon if guys like Ross Ulbricht will be sentenced to a double life sentence plus forty years without the possibility of parole, and, at the same time, convicted terrorists will be released from jail after serving several years, only to be convicted of a further terrorist offence later.

The government is fearful of people meeting together to talk and in time begin creating their own ideology. How do you think the Americans began their movement to revolt versus the British?

malevolent

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on February 18, 2020, 03:34:53 AM

Quote from: gentlemand on February 02, 2020, 05:32:31 AM

He seems like a waaay sleazier character than Ross

I see you are adjusting your, frankly, rather spoilt and ungrateful attitude towards Ross Ulbricht's contribution to the Bitcoin phenomenon. I might venture that Ross wasn't at all sleazy in way, shape or form, and in fact showed a great deal of moral and principled fortitude in creating/briefly running the Silk Road website.

Agreeing with Variety Jones to pay someone (in this case people employed by the USA) to have several people killed definitely does make him at least a bit of a sleazy person.

Betwrong

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 19, 2020, 07:47:10 PM

@Betwrong. It was administered by a person who is not a criminal. He was a physics major, a scientist and he has created the Silk Road to be an experiment on real freedom on the internet. It was not only for the drugs. I reckon the American government punished him severely out of fear of creating a people's movement.

I don't know, what they were fearing of, but what I do know is that this system will collapse pretty soon if guys like Ross Ulbricht will be sentenced to a double life sentence plus forty years without the possibility of parole, and, at the same time, convicted terrorists will be released from jail after serving several years, only to be convicted of a further terrorist offence later.

bbc.reporter

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@Betwrong. It was administered by a person who is not a criminal. He was a physics major, a scientist and he has created the Silk Road to be an experiment on real freedom on the internet. It was not only for the drugs. I reckon the American government punished him severely out of fear of creating a people's movement.

Betwrong

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 18, 2020, 08:31:32 PM

~ I heard the Silk Road forum was also an open place for intelligent economic, political, social discussions. It was a place where its community members can leave and bring some knowledge with them and some drugs hehehehe.

You heard it right. I mean the first part of your post. Regarding "some drugs", that's what I was thinking too before actually reading the Silk Road Forum Archives. To my great surprise, there were little to nothing about drugs on that forum. SR Forum looked more like Politics & Society here on bitcointalk. Yes, there was a section called "Drug Safety", or something like that, but the most popular topics were related to Libertarianism, free-market economy, namely, the Austrian School, and stuff like that.

bbc.reporter

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@Carlton Banks. Agreed. I heard the Silk Road forum was also an open place for intelligent economic, political, social discussions. It was a place where its community members can leave and bring some knowledge with them and some drugs hehehehe.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: gentlemand on February 02, 2020, 05:32:31 AM

He seems like a waaay sleazier character than Ross

I see you are adjusting your, frankly, rather spoilt and ungrateful attitude towards Ross Ulbricht's contribution to the Bitcoin phenomenon. I might venture that Ross wasn't at all sleazy in way, shape or form, and in fact showed a great deal of moral and principled fortitude in creating/briefly running the Silk Road website.

In fact, everyone here owes Ross a great debt of gratitude: Ross & the Silk Road proved Bitcoin as money at a crucial part of the overall story, far more so than Laszlo and the $10,000 pizzas. And certainly more than the gutless sheep who followed the herd out of pure spinless greed, who then have the temerity to administer verbal kicks to the face of those on whose shoulders they are standing.

The darkweb pioneer capitalists were heroes, and those who ride the Bitcoin train yet spit in the faces of those pioneers are no more than a bunch of cowards

gentlemand

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And yet most of the people who have been busted so far looked plenty nerdy to me.

I think they sensed that the tools cryptography provides make criminals out of people who otherwise wouldn't have had the balls or the notion at all.

bbc.reporter

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It was not revenge. It was for fear and intimidation, I reckon. The government might have been successful to scare away the cryptocoin nerd community, however, it attracted hard criminals. The type that will not be scared of the government.

gentlemand

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 17, 2020, 09:03:02 PM

@gentlemand. However, the government's purpose for his excessive sentence did not work. It did not stop the darknet. I reckon that it might be taken over by real criminals by now.

I heard the Silk Road was a place for freedom of speech and also a community for illegal drugs safety.

I'm sure their prime motivation was revenge for being so brazen, not justice. Hence the sentence.

Nothing will stop the darknet. I'm sure everyone from all angles must know that. They'll get plenty of lovely money to attempt it and the jail companies will receive some lovely money too for whomever they manage to catch.

bbc.reporter

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@gentlemand. However, the government's purpose for his excessive sentence did not work. It did not stop the darknet. I reckon that it might be taken over by real criminals by now.

I heard the Silk Road was a place for freedom of speech and also a community for illegal drugs safety.

gentlemand

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on February 15, 2020, 11:25:21 PM

You know someone has cooperated with the authorities when he gets out of the case with a minimum sentence hehehe. Also, what they did to Ross was excessive. However, did it scare other criminals from creating their own darknet websites?

Not one other darknet type has had a sentence anywhere near Ross's and not one ever will again most likely.

The first man through the door always gets the shotgun emptied in their face.

Everyone else who shuffles through past the ruined cadaver gets a few pellets.

hv_

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Quote from: malevolent on February 14, 2020, 02:24:44 PM

He is said to have advertised his mixer as a tool to break the law and he is said to have worked with Alphabay. If that is true it's not that surprising he's gotten himself into trouble.

In law and compliance the purpose of doing sth is just enough to get u into jail

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: malevolent on January 31, 2020, 09:00:45 PM

Quote

CLARK, 56, a citizen of Canada, pled guilty to one count of conspiracy to distribute narcotics, which carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison.

So unlike DPR, Variety Jones at least has a chance of dying outside prison walls.

Since he was arrested over four years ago maybe we'll see him making an AMA on /r/Bitcoin in the near future if he gets sentenced to time served only.

You know someone has cooperated with the authorities when he gets out of the case with a minimum sentence hehehe. Also, what they did to Ross was excessive. However, did it scare other criminals from creating their own darknet websites?

malevolent

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He is said to have advertised his mixer as a tool to break the law and he is said to have worked with Alphabay. If that is true it's not that surprising he's gotten himself into trouble.

hv_

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Satoshi still there helping to fix BitCoin getting free from crime ?

Grin

https://www.coindesk.com/us-doj-calls-bitcoin-mixing-a-crime-in-arrest-of-software-developer

buwaytress

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Quote from: malevolent on February 01, 2020, 08:57:13 PM

Quote from: Theb on February 01, 2020, 04:52:56 PM

I don't know how mitigating circumstances work in a guilty plea but Variety Jones is already 56 and assuming that the judge will only sentence him to half of that sentence with no possibility of parole he would be around 66 or 67 that time since the sentencing will happen on May 29, 2020. Him being 66 or 67 years old at that time and maybe also being broke I'm only assuming that he'll only do this AMAs or Interviews if he will be fairly compensated for it.

Many have done AMAs without any compensation or to promote a book at most. If he a 10-year sentence, and gets credited for time served since his arrest, he'll be out in 5.5 years. Since he bragged about bribing cops in Thailand I'm guessing he probably has some money stashed away.

The compensation may not come as cash immediately, but I'm sure many go on to earn from their reputations, interviews and publications. I've actually seen it in my industry myself before. People just become involved, get a few minutes of fame and then get hired because of their name power. They don't necessarily do any of the duties associated with their positions. Just sit there as figureheads with things like "author of ABC" and "central figure of the famous XYZ interview" or "subject of the ABCXYZ investigations".

For sure, there's lots more in this for him than for DPR.

gentlemand

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I remember reading about him in American Kingpin, a book about Silk Road. He seems like a waaay sleazier character than Ross and was instrumental in sending Ross further down the rabbit hole than he probably ever intended.

However he has the luxury of the novelty of the whole thing having worn off and his sentence will reflect that.

malevolent

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Quote from: Theb on February 01, 2020, 04:52:56 PM

I don't know how mitigating circumstances work in a guilty plea but Variety Jones is already 56 and assuming that the judge will only sentence him to half of that sentence with no possibility of parole he would be around 66 or 67 that time since the sentencing will happen on May 29, 2020. Him being 66 or 67 years old at that time and maybe also being broke I'm only assuming that he'll only do this AMAs or Interviews if he will be fairly compensated for it.

Many have done AMAs without any compensation or to promote a book at most. If he a 10-year sentence, and gets credited for time served since his arrest, he'll be out in 5.5 years. Since he bragged about bribing cops in Thailand I'm guessing he probably has some money stashed away.

Theb

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Quote from: malevolent on January 31, 2020, 09:00:45 PM

Quote

CLARK, 56, a citizen of Canada, pled guilty to one count of conspiracy to distribute narcotics, which carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison.

So unlike DPR, Variety Jones at least has a chance of dying outside prison walls.

Since he was arrested over four years ago maybe we'll see him making an AMA on /r/Bitcoin in the near future if he gets sentenced to time served only.

I don't know how mitigating circumstances work in a guilty plea but Variety Jones is already 56 and assuming that the judge will only sentence him to half of that sentence with no possibility of parole he would be around 66 or 67 that time since the sentencing will happen on May 29, 2020. Him being 66 or 67 years old at that time and maybe also being broke I'm only assuming that he'll only do this AMAs or Interviews if he will be fairly compensated for it. On a side note them being arrested by now won't change a thing in the dark web and hundreds of imitations of Silk Road will always emerge and continue the drug trade from happening their.

bryant.coleman

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You can jail everyone who deal with narcotics, and fill the jails with such people. But it is not going to work. Dark markets will remain as long as the demand is there. And with time, they will get more innovative. The governments should treat drug usage as individual choice. Some of the governments (such as those in Uruguay and Portugal) have tried to decriminalize narcotic usage, and it resulted in many positives. Dark markets such as Silk Road made unadulterated drugs available to the users and prevented a lot of overdose deaths. Also, it reduced the incidence of street violence, as they users no longer had to rely on street vendors.

malevolent

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Quote

CLARK, 56, a citizen of Canada, pled guilty to one count of conspiracy to distribute narcotics, which carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison.

So unlike DPR, Variety Jones at least has a chance of dying outside prison walls.

Since he was arrested over four years ago maybe we'll see him making an AMA on /r/Bitcoin in the near future if he gets sentenced to time served only.

hv_

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Senior Adviser To The Operator Of The “Silk Road” Website Pleads Guilty In Manhattan Federal Court

Roger Thomas Clark Was a Key Figure in the Development of Silk Road, Advised Ross Ulbricht on All Aspects of the Criminal Enterprise, and Urged and Facilitated an Attempted Murder-for-Hire
Geoffrey S. Berman, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, announced that ROGER THOMAS CLARK, a/k/a “Plural of Mongoose,” a/k/a “Variety Jones,” a/k/a “VJ,” a/k/a “cimon,” pled guilty today to conspiring to distribute massive quantities of narcotics, a charge arising out of his role as the senior adviser to the owner and operator of the “Silk Road” online illicit black market. During its operation from 2011 until 2013, Silk Road was used by thousands of drug dealers and other unlawful vendors to distribute illegal drugs and other illicit goods and services to more than 100,000 buyers, and to launder hundreds of millions of dollars derived from those unlawful transactions. CLARK pled guilty before United States District Judge William H. Pauley III.
...

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/senior-adviser-operator-silk-road-website-pleads-guilty-manhattan-federal-court

Topic: [2020-01-31] Senior Adviser / Operator Of The “Silk Road” Website Pleads Guilty (Read 564 times)