[2021-03-16][ET]What’s India’s beef with Bitcoin, really?

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Karartma1 on March 19, 2021, 03:51:34 AM

May I comment too? I think is all about historical heritage here Grin

Indians love gold and they can't understand that now there is a better form of gold that is not physical and that is called bitcoin. I know is intangible and you can't make jewels or spray your knobs with it but this is it.
I agree with others, let them remain behind the times.

From what I have heard, the government has been quite hostile to gold. One of the first policies after after the ruling party came to power in 2014 was to rise the excise duty of gold to 10% (and they increased it later to 12%). But this proved to be a short-sighted approach and there was a huge spike in gold smuggling from Gulf nations and the neighboring countries. Eventually they were forced to reduce the duty to 7.5%.

Karartma1

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May I comment too? I think is all about historical heritage here Grin

Indians love gold and they can't understand that now there is a better form of gold that is not physical and that is called bitcoin. I know is intangible and you can't make jewels or spray your knobs with it but this is it.
I agree with others, let them remain behind the times.

Sithara007

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Quote from: acquafredda on March 18, 2021, 03:12:27 PM

I repeat this is so 2014 Grin

They need to hire a few experts to guide throughout the knowledge path that can allow them to avoid being left behind by the rest of world. What truly amazes me is the fact they speak their mind without double-checking what they are saying.
Boomerang communication.

The government doesn't really care if they get left behind. Back in the 1980s, the Indian government initially prohibited computers, saying that manual jobs will be lost if computers are used widely. Then in the 1990s, they didn't allow internet for civilians for a very long time, arguing that internet is something that is exclusively used by criminals and hackers. Now once again, they are arguing that cryptocurrency is something that is exclusively used for criminal purposes. Nothing has changed, even after four decades. These people still have the stone age mentality and it will remain like that for the next 1,000 years.

Theb

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Short Answer: Reserve Bank of India (RBI) power-tripping their way into the legal system.

Long Answer: The legal problem all started with RBI ordering banks not to accept crypto related transactions as they see cryptocurrencies being used by criminals, at this time they have cryptocurrency exchanges like Zebpay who wash pushed into a corner where they have take the matters into legal help which they successfully won via India's own Supreme Court overturning the memorandum of RBI with the banks not accepting crypto related transactions. Now RBI not being able to accept the verdict bitch about it and knock to India's lawmakers saying things like "crypto is use by criminals" , "this will be a danger for Rupee" which obviously their lawmakers will instantly believe. The problem I see here is RBI just escalated things and they didn't just accepted the decision of their Supreme Court siding with the cryptocurrencies, RBI is just headed by the wrong people without real knowledge of the industry that's why they are doing this kinds of action.

acquafredda

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I repeat this is so 2014 Grin

They need to hire a few experts to guide throughout the knowledge path that can allow them to avoid being left behind by the rest of world. What truly amazes me is the fact they speak their mind without double-checking what they are saying.
Boomerang communication.

Darker45

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Quote from: Sithara007 on March 18, 2021, 02:37:28 AM

Quote from: Darker45 on March 17, 2021, 11:38:25 PM

"From our side, we are very clear that we are not shutting all options off. We will allow a certain amount of window for people..."^[1] These are the exact words of Nirmala Sitharaman, India's current finance minister. This statement is issued in relation to the RBI and India supreme court's comments on cryptocurrency.

What she means is that:

1. Cryptocurrencies will be banned, but Blockchain technology will not be prohibited (which is ridiculous because Blockchain is essentially a part of Bitcoin algorithm)
2. A "certain window" of around 6 months will be given to existing cryptocurrency users, so that they can sell their holdings. Obviously they need to pay the GST (18% or 28%) and penalty (30% to 60%) on top of the income tax (42% for the topmost slab).

There are no positives coming out from India for the last few weeks, related to cryptocurrency. Things will get tough for the Bitcoin users.

Let me, then, continue transcribing a little bit more of the rest of her answer from where I stopped.

"...but from our side, we are very clear that we are not shutting all options off. We will allow a certain amount of window for people to, you know, use so that experiments in the blockchain, Bitcoin, or whatever you may want to call it; the cryptocurrency experiments and fintech, which depend on such experiments, will have that window available for them. They are not going to shut it off all."

Well, it's very clear they are jumbling crypto and Bitcoin and blockchain as if they're all the same and interchangeable. But I cannot make further interpretations nor do a lot of contextualization on this considering that I am not that well-exposed to the crypto environment and development in India, but I just hope this "window" that she's talking about means there is really no blanket ban on anything that has to do with Bitcoin.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Darker45 on March 17, 2021, 11:38:25 PM

"From our side, we are very clear that we are not shutting all options off. We will allow a certain amount of window for people..."^[1] These are the exact words of Nirmala Sitharaman, India's current finance minister. This statement is issued in relation to the RBI and India supreme court's comments on cryptocurrency.

What she means is that:

1. Cryptocurrencies will be banned, but Blockchain technology will not be prohibited (which is ridiculous because Blockchain is essentially a part of Bitcoin algorithm)
2. A "certain window" of around 6 months will be given to existing cryptocurrency users, so that they can sell their holdings. Obviously they need to pay the GST (18% or 28%) and penalty (30% to 60%) on top of the income tax (42% for the topmost slab).

There are no positives coming out from India for the last few weeks, related to cryptocurrency. Things will get tough for the Bitcoin users.

Darker45

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"From our side, we are very clear that we are not shutting all options off. We will allow a certain amount of window for people..."^[1] These are the exact words of Nirmala Sitharaman, India's current finance minister. This statement is issued in relation to the RBI and India supreme court's comments on cryptocurrency.

So I guess many of the news about India issuing a ban on Bitcoin are not really showing the complete picture. I guess the ministry of finance is seeing the larger picture, carefully studying and weighing on things, and wouldn't jump right away on getting India rid of Bitcoin once and for all.

So I wouldn't generalize that India is anti-Bitcoin. There are still two opposing parties even inside the government itself.

[1] https://twitter.com/DocumentingBTC/status/1371247856821141507

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: acquafredda on March 17, 2021, 02:33:57 PM

Like China in 2014-15. Bitcoin is being used to let capital fly from India to everywhere! Those who recognized bitcoin's value proposition cannot stand to play the rules that the state is imposing. It is interesting to watch India getting left behind in the crypto world. Funny because, I know many great Indian bitcoiners who made serious businesses on top of the orange coin.

Well. India is exactly where China was in 2014/15. The Chinese realized their mistake sometime later, but by then a lot of damage was done already. But eventually the Chinese authorities realized their mistake and relaxed the regulations. Eventually, China became the market leader in Bitcoin mining and it generated a lot of tax revenue and employment for the government.

Quote from: cr1776 on March 17, 2021, 02:56:08 PM

Their fear is loss of control of their people which means loss of their own power and money. Evil statists the lot of them. Trust people to be free to make good and bad decisions and live with the consequences of doing so.

Fake reasons like money laundering etc are excuses to control.

From what I have seen, the supporters of the ruling party have started social media campaigns against cryptocurrency, accusing Bitcoiners of tax evasion, terrorist funding, gambling and all sort of evils. The funny thing is that there is not even a single instance of Bitcoin being used for these in India till now.

cr1776

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Their fear is loss of control of their people which means loss of their own power and money. Evil statists the lot of them. Trust people to be free to make good and bad decisions and live with the consequences of doing so.

Fake reasons like money laundering etc are excuses to control.

acquafredda

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Like China in 2014-15. Bitcoin is being used to let capital fly from India to everywhere! Those who recognized bitcoin's value proposition cannot stand to play the rules that the state is imposing. It is interesting to watch India getting left behind in the crypto world. Funny because, I know many great Indian bitcoiners who made serious businesses on top of the orange coin.

bryant.coleman

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View: What’s India’s beef with Bitcoin, really?

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/policy/view-whats-indias-beef-with-bitcoin-really/articleshow/81524092.cms

Quote

The risk that India would hit back with a new law to make criminals out of crypto professionals and investors was always present. So practitioners tried to educate policymakers, appealing for sensible regulation starting with definitions for what is a utility token, which digital asset is to be viewed as a security, and which is to be treated as a currency.

Quote

The trouble is with bureaucrats. They say they want blockchain, but not cryptocurrencies. It’s as silly as wanting airports with duty-free shops but no flights. From the Reuters story, it doesn’t appear that the final regulation will be much different from what a draft bill had recommended in 2019.

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A regulatory sandbox in Mumbai, where most of India’s financial industry resides, would give the authorities ideas for designing a smart official paperless currency. If they adopt a draconian law out of a fear of money laundering or loss of control on the capital account, transactions will simply go underground. Nobody is asking New Delhi to make Bitcoin legal tender or accept tax payments in it. Just a little tolerance of cryptocurrencies will be enough.

I posted this article here, because it is one of the best articles I have ever read related to the proposed cryptocurrency ban in India. But then, I don't expect much from the politicians and bureaucrats, especially in a third world nation such as India.

Topic: [2021-03-16][ET]What’s India’s beef with Bitcoin, really? (Read 109 times)