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Topic: 2022—The Year the Hydrogen Economy Launched? (Read 109 times)

legendary
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Top Crypto Casino
August 21, 2022, 03:24:15 PM
#9
Your username makes the title look like a joke Smiley
Lol, that's the first thing I noticed about the thread, although I quickly realized it's a thread consistent with ones Hydrogen has started before.  But I have to say, I've never heard the term "hydrogen economy" before, and I'm in the dark as to developments in using hydrogen as a fuel source.  I really oughtta read more science-based news, because this stuff is fascinating.

Crypto and NFTS could also be used to subsidize in favor of hydrogen fuel.
This makes no sense.
I was puzzled about that line as well, and I never took Hydrogen to be someone who thinks everything belongs on a blockchain or can be improved by having a token or--even worse--an NFT associated with it.  While this thread has everything to do with economics, I don't think the progress of using hydrogen as an energy source is going to be helped by anything crypto-related.  That thinking is straight out of 2018, during the ICO insanity where everyone was trying to get rich by starting up these shitty projects to tokenize things that had no business being tokenized.
legendary
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The whole world has realized that closing its economy on resources that are almost exclusively supplied by an inadequate exporter not only can, but is already creating huge problems.
The way out is the transition to alternative energy technologies. For example, the use of hydrogen as an environmentally friendly fuel.
This technology has several very significant advantages:
1. To deploy a network of gas stations, you do not need to build and invest anything additionally - you can use stations for the sale of liquefied gas.
2. Hydrogen production is not a technologically complex process
3. Technologies for the creation and use of engines, for example, on fuel cells, are already well "run in"
4. Raw materials for the production of hydrogen - an almost inexhaustible supply.
hero member
Activity: 2548
Merit: 607
Seems electric is all the rage now even though grid infrastructure in US, probably the same in some other countries as well, is going to need upgrading to accommodate all these EVs that will be on the road in the upcoming years.  Saying this to say this big companies most likely won't expand to hydrogen or geothermal until they can suck ever last dollar and then some out of the electric wave, just like petro.
hero member
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LoyceV on the road. Or couch.
hydrogen can explode easily.
Is this based on the Hindenburg disaster? Natural gas is highly flammable, and so is petrol. That wouldn't be my main concern: as long as the storage container can flare off when the pressure gets too high, it won't explode.

Transporting hydrogen is way more challenging than transporting the electricity needed for the process, so if you're allowed to choose everyone will go for 50 km of electric lines rather than 5km of gas pipes.
As far as I know, one of the reasons for hydrogen production would be because electric grid connections are quite problematic in the Netherlands at the moment.
legendary
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Blackjack.fun
I recently read about Shell building a hydrogen electrolyser hooked to an offshore wind turbine farm. The weird part is that the factory is far from the wind park.

Transporting hydrogen is way more challenging than transporting the electricity needed for the process, so if you're allowed to choose everyone will go for 50 km of electric lines rather than 5km of gas pipes.

Talking about subsidies: they applied, but started building before it's approved.

Because if you wait too long you will get like 1000 NGOs already chained at the construction site before you manage to bring a shovel in, wait for it, soon even hydrogen produced with renewables will be bad for the Earth, then is using wood, then drinking water, then it will be a crime against nature to have children.

Main concern atm is hydrogen power developing similar to ethanol.

For ethanol made out of corn you need land, water, and a ton of pesticide and fertilizer, for hydrogen you don't need arable land nor do you need anything else that would affect both availability and price of food.
hero member
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AFAIK, hydrogen is very expensive to produce and storage costs are high, because the hydrogen can explode easily.
There is "green hydrogen" ,which is produced via green energy sources like solar panels and wind turbines and "blue hydrogen", which is produced via burning fossil fuels. I'm pretty sure that the governments will subsidize the "green hydrogen" only.
This is a promising technology with lots of problems to be solved in the upcoming years.
I don't want to give up on electric cars and trucks. The Li-Ion batteries will have to be replaced with better alternatives, like Natrium-Sulfur batteries or graphene batteries. I'm sure that car batteries will become cheaper and more powerful as time goes by.
legendary
Activity: 2562
Merit: 1441
Your username makes the title look like a joke Smiley

Crypto and NFTS could also be used to subsidize in favor of hydrogen fuel.
This makes no sense.

I recently read about Shell building a hydrogen electrolyser hooked to an offshore wind turbine farm. The weird part is that the factory is far from the wind park.
I didn't know it's a challenge to run electrolyers with varying power supply, but that could be the holy grail of wind power and peak shaving. An economic incentive lasts a lot longer than subsidies. Talking about subsidies: they applied, but started building before it's approved.



No relation between my username and the impending hydrogen economy, thankfully.  

Maybe the world will someday see a hydrogen coin used to subsidize the expansion of hydrogen based economy.

(The NFT part of that was a joke. Its all good. NFTs will replace quantum computers someday.)

I think the majority of hydrogen fuel in the world is produced through steam reformation. Electrolysis is similar to ethanol. Corn that is grown as a food product is fermented into ethanol fuel. Which is a mandated fuel additive in most countries. Electrolysis requires electricity to generate hydrogen fuel. While steam reformation may be a more efficient process. Off the top of my head, that's what I remember. Although I could be in error there.

I'm certain they know what they're doing and will get the details ironed out.

What will be interesting is Elon Musk's response. He may have underestimated the viability of hydrogen. I was watching tests of hydrogen fuel canisters pulled by 18 wheelers. They shot the fuel tank of a hydrogen big rig with a gun and it didn't rupture, catch on fire or explode. In future tests, they planned to ram the hydrogen fuel tank with a train to prove its safety. I think shipping and cargo hauling is the ideal scenario for hydrogen power. That's the area its best able to compete with EVs which may not be well suited for the role.
hero member
Activity: 1659
Merit: 687
LoyceV on the road. Or couch.
Your username makes the title look like a joke Smiley

Crypto and NFTS could also be used to subsidize in favor of hydrogen fuel.
This makes no sense.

I recently read about Shell building a hydrogen electrolyser hooked to an offshore wind turbine farm. The weird part is that the factory is far from the wind park.
I didn't know it's a challenge to run electrolyers with varying power supply, but that could be the holy grail of wind power and peak shaving. An economic incentive lasts a lot longer than subsidies. Talking about subsidies: they applied, but started building before it's approved.
legendary
Activity: 2562
Merit: 1441
Quote
Among the technological visions that seem perpetually futuristic (think commercial nuclear fusion and maglev trains), the hydrogen economy has always been tantalizing. Hydrogen produced from renewable energy or nuclear power, with minimal greenhouse-gas emissions, could be piped or transported pretty much anywhere, using mostly existing infrastructure. It could power trucks, cars, planes, and ships and generate electricity, either in fuel cells or combustion turbines. In short, it could do anything fossil fuels do now, but with substantially reduced climate impact.

Now, after decades of false starts and overly optimistic projections, several factors are giving an unprecedented lift to clean hydrogen. In the United States, sweeping legislation capped a series of moves by the country’s Department of Energy (DOE) over the past year to drive down the cost of low-carbon hydrogen and stimulate demand for the fuel. And in Europe, a looming fossil-fuel crisis has sent officials scrambling to find alternatives to the 155 billion cubic meters of Russian natural gas that EU countries imported in 2021.

“I’ve been working in hydrogen for 20 years, and this is absolutely the most exciting time, the busiest time,” says Keith Wipke, manager of the Fuel Cell and Hydrogen Technologies Program at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) in Golden, Colo. “There’s just so much activity.”

The U.S. legislation, known as the Inflation Reduction Act, was signed into law by President Joe Biden on 16 August, after being passed in Congress along party lines earlier in the month. It prescribes new spending of US $437 billion over 10 years, of which some $370 billion is directed toward a sprawling range of renewable-energy, electric-vehicle, and other greenhouse-gas reduction measures. But it was the low-carbon-hydrogen provisions that raised eyebrows, for a couple of reasons. One is that they are more generous than many analysts were expecting. The other is that the hydrogen provisions are technology-neutral, meaning that there is no distinction between hydrogen produced by electrolysis with electricity from, for example, a wind farm or a nuclear power plant.

The bill provides tax credits to producers of low-carbon hydrogen at a rate that depends on how much carbon is emitted during production, among other factors. At the lowest emission rate—0.45 kilograms of carbon dioxide emitted per kilogram of hydrogen produced—producers are eligible for a credit of up to $3 per kilogram of hydrogen, making the cost cheaper, in some instances, than that of ordinary “gray” hydrogen, which is derived from natural gas through a process called steam reforming. Production of gray hydrogen creates from 8 to 12 kilograms of CO2 per kilogram of hydrogen produced. Costs of gray hydrogen vary but are roughly $2/kg in the United States.

Nearly all of the hydrogen made in the United States, some 10 million tonnes last year, is produced this way. China, the world’s largest producer of hydrogen at upwards of 25 million tonnes a year, derives 62 percent of its total from coal, which creates 18 to 20 kg of CO2 per kilogram of hydrogen. In both the United States and China, production of “green” hydrogen, created by electrolysis using a renewable energy source, makes up less than 1 percent of total output.

The DOE has established goals of getting the cost of low-carbon hydrogen, without incentives, down to $2/kg by 2026, and to $1/kg by 2031. Says Wipke, referring to the top $3/kg credit in the Inflation Reduction Act, “if today’s hydrogen is about $5 a kilogram through electrolysis, clean electrolysis, and you’re able to take $3 off of that, and go from $5 down to $2, well, essentially, you have met, with the incentives, our 2026 goal of $2 a kilogram. Now, technically, you’ve done it through incentives, but the impact is the same. You’re rapidly getting the cost of hydrogen down to where it is very competitive—and in many cases cheaper—than the fossil alternative. So that’s why the community is so excited.”

As compelling as the production credit may prove to be, the provisions are just the most recent of a series of government moves aimed at bolstering clean hydrogen. A year ago, for example, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA) pledged $8 billion to establish up to eight regional “hydrogen hubs” in the country. These would be facilities where low-carbon hydrogen would be produced, stored, used, and transported elsewhere.

“I think the combination, the one-two punch of the IIJA hydrogen hubs and the IRA's production tax credit, can help build the full value chain,” says Alex Kizer, senior vice president of research and analysis at the Energy Futures Initiative. “And I wouldn't underestimate the other hydrogen-adjacent funding opportunities in the IRA, because hydrogen is going to need manufacturing, it's going to need fueling, it's going to need distribution…. There’s opportunity up and down the hydrogen value chain. That, in addition to the PTC [production tax credit], is what has me most excited.”

In mid-August there were already some 22 prospective hubs being touted around the country, though a formal announcement of a “funding opportunity” from the DOE wasn’t expected until September or October. Around that time, site preparation is expected to begin on a $2.65 billion project in Delta, Utah, where a consortium of companies led by Mitsubishi Power Americas and Magnum Development will install turbines capable of generating 840 megawatts by burning a mix of hydrogen and natural gas. Backed by a half billion dollars in loan guarantees from the DOE, the Intermountain Power Project, as it’s known, will also have solar-photovoltaic generators and a 220-megawatt electrolysis system to produce hydrogen on site, along with facilities to store up to 300 gigawatt-hours of the gas in underground salt domes.

In Europe, too, a hydrogen-hub plan was hurriedly approved by the European Commission in late July. It sets aside €5.4 billion to fund 41 projects to develop technologies ranging from basic R&D to industrial deployment. A small hub near Hamburg, Germany, is already under construction, and a larger hub is being built at the Port of Rotterdam in the Netherlands. “Rotterdam is basically showing the world how to become a hydrogen port,” says Robert Hebner, an IEEE Fellow and director of the Center for Electromechanics at the University of Texas at Austin, where he helps coordinate R&D on hydrogen. “They have signed agreements with companies to operate hydrogen terminals there,” he notes. “They’re working out agreements with Portugal, [under which] Portugal will make hydrogen from wind power and transport it into the Port of Rotterdam. They’ve announced that they’ll use hydrogen-powered trucks to distribute this through Central Europe. They’re thinking holistically about how to get hydrogen to the port and then how to get it redistributed to where it’s needed.”

But any notion that clean-hydrogen production could be ramped up quickly enough to help mitigate the looming loss of Russian natural gas on the continent is quickly dispelled by analysts. According to Bernd Heid, a senior partner in the Cologne office of McKinsey & Co., “hydrogen is not helping Europe in the current energy crisis.” Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, in May, he added, “but in the medium- and long-term we see more momentum for hydrogen use. It will come faster because conventional energy such as oil and gas will become scarcer and more expensive.”

So are we finally witnessing the beginnings of an actual hydrogen economy? “I think, yes, it’s going to happen,” says Hebner. “The Hydrogen Council has over 100 multinational corporations investing billions of dollars a year into making the hydrogen economy real, and they’re making those investments where governments will help them, but this is not government-led. This is industry-led. It’s industries that see a way that they can make money. When I saw that, I said, this one may be real.”



https://spectrum.ieee.org/hydrogen-economy-inflation-reduction-act


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The united states is introducing massive subsidies for hydrogen based incentives. Europe also appears to have plans for scaling in favor of hydrogen based transportation.

There is at least one area hydrogen based vehicles carry large advantages over electric vehicles (EVs). That is shipping and cargo hauling industries. Electric vehicles rely upon low drag aerodynamics and driving at the speed limit to achieve their rated range. Due to the nature of battery packs having greatly reduced energy density and capacity in contrast to fossil fuels. The range of electric vehicles falls sharply when hauling loads. Recently the electric ford lightning was tested and found to have its range severely diminished when towing a trailer.

Quote
Tow No! The Ford F-150 Lightning Struggled in Our Towing Test

Before you hitch an Airstream to your electric truck and set out to circumnavigate the country, you need to understand this: With the largest available battery pack, a fully charged 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning electric truck has less energy onboard than a regular F-150 with four gallons of gas in its tank.

Consider how far a combustion-powered F-150 would tow at max capacity on four gallons of regular unleaded. Thirty five miles? Maybe 40 if you drive slowly?

Now that you understand where we're starting from, you won't be as surprised to learn that the towing range of the electric F-150 is dismal. In MotorTrend testing, an F-150 Lightning Platinum saddled with a camper that nearly maxed out its 8,500-pound towing capacity couldn't even cover 100 miles. Range improved when we hooked up a significantly lighter trailer, but not by as much as you might expect.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-electric-truck-towing-test/

There is definitely one area where hydrogen powered trucks will have advantages over EVs. If the cost of hydrogen fuel can be subsidized and reduced.

Main concern atm is hydrogen power developing similar to ethanol.

Crypto and NFTS could also be used to subsidize in favor of hydrogen fuel. Although Elon Musk might not like that very much, I'm thinking.
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