Topic: 240v Garage Setup Electrical Help (Read 282 times)

I meant 100 or 200 amp breaker on transformer. Anyways, I called the EC cause they had to reschedule installation because of storms, and the lady said you can install up to 400amp breaker panel, so....... I'ma just wait till the lineman comes out here and tells me exactly what is what, cause i cant see anything on the transformer....  

Ahhhh, I found people that LOVE to answer my questions about PDU setups......Power Supply Salesmen, lol!!!

Power transformers are not rated in amps - they are rated in kva (loosely translates to kw) and the rating will be marked on the side of it. If too far away, use a pair of binoculars to to see the rating. Also remember that the transformer is feeding all your close neighbors so you do not get to use all of what can produce...

Okay, stuff is clicking.... SO if i wanted 4 machines on one pdu it would need to be 60amp pdu, would need wire that could handle 60amp, and 60 amp breaker, outlet, etc....?
If i have a 100amp transformer on the pole that is going to define how many machines I could have running, six? I seen someone say, with and 100amp transformer you can use 40,000 watts, seemingly could run 10 machine at 3000/3600watts? The psu determines your calculations, doesnt matter what power your machine is using, it's what power the psu can handle?

Well, i got down how to setup the electrical system with outlets for each machine... I think I will go with 2, smart/intelligent/metered pdus. That should be able to handle 2 machines each? And go from there, let my learning curve catch up..... Thanks for you time all....

Thanks, guys. I like to be cheap, love it. But I would rather spend extra money and get good stuff, If I could get a pdu that can handle 4-5 machines or 10 machines for around $1k. I been looking but, im not sure about everything, being green and all, asking a questions is best way i learn after book reading, (I could ask my buddy, but when he opens his mouth he likes a beer going down it, and I'm interrupting his "drinking" schedule already.) And Quote: .......Wait, Mining, on a Farm, in your Garage, WTF are you talking about!!!)

I see monitored, metered and smart, smart switching, pdus what the difference, which is the best? Would be nice to have way to check power and not have to be in garage. But i do have some money too not go the cheapest route, I could spend between $500-1200 on pdus. Now C20 to C13 splitter will be find on pdus?

I'm searching for: 30a smart 240v pdu, with c19 outlets.

Thanks again....

the cheapest 30a 240v pdu  used is this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/143399400162?

the plug is l6-30p  it has 4 breakers for the 4 c19/c20 jacks and a main breaker

it can do 2 s17 on low setting
it can do 2 s17 on normal setting
it can not do 2 s17 on turbo setting

if you buy them look for these wires to run to the s17 psu

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184114573116?


we went away from this setting due to our power having long brown out dips to 188-195 volts. when this happens the pdu would trip

but it is viable way to run s17 gear or even s19 gear

s19 will be 1 unit per pdu.

If you have an electrician friend just let them get all the equipment for you. Be plain about what the end result should be, “I want 10, 30A 240V circuits with receptacles or junction boxes to connect these ten miners.” They should be able to get the right parts for you and often from a distributor with competitive pricing.

A few things with residential services. The power company won’t hook up a 200A panel to 100A service so be sure you can get 200A service before you buy a big panel board. I would also get a physically larger panel too, that way you can install the breakers with a space between them (for cooling) or have room for extra breakers for future.

Quick electrical lesson: breakers are there to protect the wire and not the load. The size of the load (your miner, approx 3000W) dictates the size of the wire (3000W/240V=12.5A, adjust for continuous running; 12.5A/0.8=15.6A so 12 gauge wire minimum) which then directs the size of breaker (12 gauge ampacity is 20A so 20A breaker).

The voltage references can seem a bit confusing. Standard system voltages in North America have some variance. Single phase residential is often 220-240V. I think it also goes back to older electrical standards. Things rated a few decades ago reference 220V or 230V a lot. Most newer standards reference 240V. Long story short is that your power at your place will be in this range, leaning closer to 240V likely. Your power company might be able to adjust your voltage up or down a bit at the transformer using winding taps if you are finding it too low (less than 220V).

Pro tip: you can avoid the cost of larger receptacles by direct splicing the miner cables to the circuit wires. Just cut off the male end, strip back the cable a bit, use a tester to find the ground and power carrying wires in the cable and splice it all in a junction box. It’s more work overall and the cables become fixed to one location but this can save a bit of money. Your electrician friend will be able to help get this right. And definitely get it right because weird things can happen if some wires are accidentally crossed.

PDU is probably not required. They can add value though if you get one with power monitoring and smart switching. If you don’t want to go with a receptacle per miner route or use junction boxes to hook the miners up a PDU is a nice prebuilt way of splitting larger power up to multiple devices. A 30A 240V PDU is only going to be able to power a couple miners though so the added cost might not be worth the benefit if you have to buy a bunch of PDUs.

the ones i linked to mono price work well.

and the part that plugs into the c19 cable is 12 ga it splits into two 14 ga that are c13 ended the two psu each draw 1800 watts max.

we have run 17 s17 on turbo along with a few s17+ and a few s19

no melted wires. we have three 200 amp panels and 24 circuits.  yeah in theory the 200 amp breakers would over load but we do not do over 20 amps on any circuit.

so 8 x 20 = 160 amps on a 200 amp panel..

this room can overheat in the summer so we tend to down clock in the summer and run the s17s on low

then jump to turbo in the winter.


but if you use the y splitter make sure they are from monoprice as they work up to 3600 watts 24/7


now for some reason you have 14/2 romex that is not good for a 30 amp circuit

The original post says 3000W to 3600W

A max 15A Y PSU cable on 3600W will be 240V
i.e. max spec ... you better hope cheap 14AWG, 15A, $7 cables are not cheap cables ...

The only glitch I see is that your outlet is a twist-locking one but your cord is not. They need to match so using the cord you give that means the receptacle needs to be a NEMA L6-30R with straight blades.

edit: Also the Romex 14/2 is drastically undersize -- using 25a or 30a breakers means you need 10ga wire.
For reference: https://www.cerrowire.com/products/resources/tables-calculators/ampacity-charts/

Okay, Think I got it. Question. I notice the amp rating going down from 30 to 20 to 15? Is that okay?

SO im not sure what the transformer is at pole 100 or 200 amps, but for 200 amps I can get this:

200 Amp 30-Space 60-Circuit Indoor Main Breaker Plug-On Neutral Load Center.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-200-Amp-30-Space-60-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Plug-On-Neutral-Load-Center-with-Cover-Value-Pack-HOM3060M200PCVP/204836369

need 200 amp breaker and then a 25-30 amp 2 pole circuit breakers for each outlet

breaker to this wire. 14/2 gauged wire
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-100-ft-14-2-Solid-Romex-SIMpull-CU-NM-B-W-G-Wire-28827428/202316379?MERCH=REC-_-pipinstock-_-202316274-_-202316379-_-N

to this receptacle,(outlet)
NEMA L6-30R 30A 250V L630C Female Twist Lock 3 Wire Power Locking Receptacle

to this cable
NEMA L6-30P to C19 POWER CORD -  20A/250V 12AWG

to this splitter
C20 to 2x IEC 60320 C13, 14AWG, 15A, SJTW, 100-250V

to machines. Got It. Rather ask dumb questions than kill the machines or me..... Thanks

this is good 

psu
to y cable

 https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=35118

to cable

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124975918482?hash=item1d19252d92:g:~zkAAOSwoAdhecPL

to receptacle

https://www.ebay.com/itm/113855562065?

using this wire

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-250-ft-10-2-Solid-Romex-SIMpull-CU-NM-B-W-G-Wire-28829055/202316274


to breaker

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-30-Amp-2-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-HOM230CP/202353325



now your breaker needs to match your box.

i showed square d you could be some other box.


so box >>> breaker >>> 10 ga wire >>> receptacle >>>> cable >>>> y cable >>> psu


if you do this you should never overload

the breaker
the internal wire
the receptacle
the 12 ga cable
the y cable

as for 220 vs 240

do this 210 x 30 x .80 = 5040 watts well within specs of the wires


and do this 240 x 30 x .80 =5760 watts way higher then you need

you are better off loading a big breaker box with 30 amps circuits as I describe.

but in a pinch 20 amps mostly always do the trick

205 x 20 x .80 = 3280 watts which could trip.

205 volts is about as low as most anyone will drift down to.

you often hear people say they use 20 amp breakers and no issues.

All of the above needs to be checked with your codes and your laws.

240 volt power can kill and harm easy peasy

Well... A problem is that the 17's need both inlets to have power that is switched at the same time. Using 2 breakers (1 for each cord) means that it is possible for 1 to trip while leaving the 2nd one live - the PSU will not be happy about that...

So... your best setup would be 1 breaker feeding the 2 cords. Just be sure to use at least 16ga cords, preferably 14ga so there is a decent chance of them surviving an overload bad enough to trip the 25A breaker.

As for power: W=V*A or inverted you get A=W/V so assuming you are pulling the same power using higher voltage pulls less amps, lower voltage pulls more amps. Regardless of what your line voltage is, the miner will pull the same amount of power since that is determined by what the PSU is putting out -line voltage does not affect that, it just changes how hard the PSU has to work at putting out its commanded voltage.

Okay, guys. Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm still having issues trying to figure this out. For circuit breaker panel I need to get one with 20 spaces for 20 outlets and 10 double pole breakers? Now since 17 series need two outlets, so each PS(cord) should have same amps for breakers?


Now the problem I'm having is understanding exactly what to buy and what amp breakers to use? Now i seen on one power supply spec for the t17+'s is 3600w and that is 16amps at 240v? SO, a 20amp breaker? Or do I use 25% rule 4700watt at 21amps, a 25amp breaker? Both cords from one miner should be on same breaker?

I see 220v and 240v interchanged a lot how does that factor in to my calculations, do i need to wait to power is hooked up to get accurate reading from meter to use in calculations?

And I know myself and i wont be able to resist OC them at some point. I already adhered to the fact that doing that will probably cause heatsink to come off, and if i want to fix myself it going to cost about $1000 in repair tools, time, frustration, etc. or pay to get them fixed.  already got a repair manual and watching videos.
 
Anyways, I have 2 t17+ and 2 s17+ atm...... Is there a way I can just have one or two outlets hooked up to a 220v pdu with a breaker for every outlet if they have that, just cut down on stuff till I do a make over when have all ten?


Thanks.

lol, mikeywith just loves those 17 series. I think there are situations where it could be ok to buy some 2nd had 17 series, but at current prices, it doesn't make sense. Prices for used gear aren't much lower than new gear when you compare $/TH, so just buy the new stuff that comes with a warranty.

And with new 100TH miners running >3Kw instead of 2Kw, you'll need fewer circuits so it'll be a bit cheaper to get your wiring installed. But either way, you should make sure the wiring can support the newer gen miners. Probably doesn't cost much more to put in wire that can handle 30A rather than 20A.

Not sure where you read that, but that isn't correct, the only thing you need to do when planning on buying Bitmain 17 series is to reconsider your decision because chances are you are going to regret it, I don't want to go into details since this topic is more of "electric setup" but you should really avoid getting those gears.


Ya, he will be limited to a few models, the most famous among those who have 277v is gears that use P21 PSU like the M20 and the M21s, the input voltage of that is 200v-277v, in fact, the overclocking function in the latest stock firmware requires a higher voltage than 240v, which is heaven on earth as far as those folks are concerned, the price of those PSUs, however, is just way too much, it's more expensive than buying two regular PSUs that run at 200-240v.

The 277v is what you get from 480V 3-phase wye connection. Running from the center neutral point to any 1 of the phases gives 277V. In the past that connection was mainly used for lighting in factories that use 480V 3-phase to power their equipment - the balasts used for large flouresent or HPS lights has taps covering a very wide rage of voltages with 277v being one of them. Yes that is a problem for miners because as you said, most top out at 250v rating and running anything higher is a very bad idea...

You should have a switchboard, in which there will be a 63A input circuit breaker, RSD, and then the wiring for your needs (most likely 9+ single-phase circuit breaker  of 16A, each outlet has its own circuit breaker) and compliance with all the rules for the cross-section of cables and it is very desirable that the cables are copper.

Stock fans and PSUs on these are pretty darn good, so I'm not sure what could be gained by using different ones.

If it were me, I'd keep it simple and just have the electrician put in separate outlets on their own circuit for each miner. If you want to support 10 miners then put in 20 outlets, 10 circuits, 10 breakers. PDUs are expensive and don't really add much other than another point of failure.

For monitoring power use, I like these: https://www.ekmmetering.com/collections/smart-meters

Hello, thanks for the help. It looks like you may have a lot experience with s17s. I wanted to ask, cause while doing research I seen that people said they got better psu and fans for their s17 miners. Could you maybe elaborate on that? Thanks again.

I'm in Illinois, so too dark to see transformer at the moment, but I will ask for the main input circuit breaker to be a 3-phase 63A.  
What is that going to require as in special items for mining i need to use with that setup?

I just want to be sure on one safe setup to use, researching just comes up with a lot of random info, i get information overload.
But what I got so far, I need these parts and in this order for a setup with 220v with max of 10 machines....

Wire from outside to digital ac display meter, to main input circuit breaker 3-phase 63A, to circuit breaker panel with a 30amp breaker, to 220v outlet, to a 30amp pdu strip, to machines? I feel like, ask dumb questions now, feel smart later... Obviously, i will have to become very versed in all this..

Yeah, my buddy came over today to have a look at the garage, he is an older guy and gonna do me favor. He was asking about machines, volts, etc....but in the end he was like just get all the info and items and i'll put it together. I dont want to spend a ton, but i like to have the bells and whistles.

thanks for your time guys.

Well at least go take a look at the transformer on the pole, they are normally marked with the KVA rating of the transformer. If it's under 40KVA you may have issues.

You are lucky that you have an unused transformer, so you can get 30 kW, of course, if you agree with the power company. This company will install the main input circuit breaker for you (with your requests, it would be better if a 3-phase 63A). The rest of the wiring can be done by your electrician.
Where're you from?

Well, since my buddy doesn't know about bitcoin mining, and didnt seem to interested in listen about them... Maybe I should of worded my request differently. I should of asked for help on the setup. He said he knows how to do the box and everything, but do i want outlets, or pdu. I seen people have an ac display meter, where does that go before or after breaker box.

I'm looking to setup some s17s up to 10. So basically, its just add breaker box, i can add ac display meter, what gauge wires for outlet 8,10 gauges? then just a Basic 200V-240V/30A, (10) Outlets pdu? Not other goodies? I just mine with gpus till now.

what about a fused disconnect box like what you would use for a hot tub: that be for extra safety?

Also i asked the electric guy when he came over several times about drawing 30k watts, he kind of blew off and was like it will be fine, that why i kept asking. I think cause the way my lot is setup (double lot), we have a transformer that is being unused, lucky me.

This sounds so strange to me lol, But I understand why. In my not so "capitalism friendly country" electricity is subsidized, it's super cheap that the peak and continuous load is almost identical, in the summer, ACs will be on 24/7, and in the winter electric heaters are on almost 24/7 too, so when the power company install any transformer or wiring, you never hear them talk about what's peak and whats continuous, it's crazy when I compare the situation here to the other countries.

Also another note, I see people in telegram talk about having 277v, not sure if that's just in the U.S or elsewhere, but that 277v range isn't mining-friendly either, many folks are stuck with 1-2 MicroBT models that can take 277v.

If you are having the power company bring in new service for your miners, you should let them know that you expect to be using 30KW continuously. At least in the US, standard residential service that gets installed these days is 240V 200A. But if you actually tried to use close to the full 200A continuously you'd probably end up killing power to your whole block... they only size the transformers for average use, and the transformer that you are likely sharing with multiple neighbors probably can't handle even a single house using all of its 200A continuously. 30KW might use up nearly all the continuous capacity of the transformer you and your neighbors are sharing. Big difference between peak and continuous.

Also, if you are lucky enough to have 3 phase power available at your pole, you may be able to get a cheaper commercial rate. Where I live it costs less than half of the residential rate to get 3 phase commercial.

Yeah few do.

The main point to say is that current draw/current drop can be vast if e.g. the internet goes down, or when power comes on after an outage.
Consider it like factory machinery running 35kW but can go all on and all off at the same time.

However, the other big difference is that it will draw that power 24/7 non-stop when there are no problems, unlike most circuits anyone sets up.
So certainly the circuit must not be designed like a typical circuit assuming that peaks are rare.

Well, there is nothing special about ASIC miners when it comes to electrical wiring, your friend needs to follow the same set of principles he follows elsewhere, you just have to give him the key information needed to run the miners and that will depend on what type of miners you are trying to put in that farm.

Bitmain gears (ignoring the old models) all use two C13 cables and consume on average 3kw, Whatsminer on the other hand, uses a single C19 connector and consumes anywhere between 3kw to 3.5kw depending on the exact model and the efficiency within the same model.

The majority of these ASIC miners are voltage sensitive, so if you are not sure about the stability of the voltage, you might ask him to install some sort of voltage protectors to avoid PSU damage.

The MCBs / fuses sizes and all the wiring will depend on the code of your country.

Looking to put my farm in the garage, power company is coming to run a line straight from the pole, and my friend is an professional electrician, but he knows nothing about mining.
Wanted to know what options, maybe kits or parts, fuse box, pdu, outlet, cable, AC display Meter and all that extra stuff for mining to buy for a setup of eventually 10 ascii miners 240v pulling max 3000,3600W (calculate over 20% to be safe), or just 9 if it too high.  Thanks.