Author

Topic: 28nm vs 20nm (Read 2318 times)

legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
March 23, 2014, 04:15:19 PM
#24
Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

Proof? How power efficient are CT and HashFail?

I wasn't even talking about CT or HashFail because they both suck.

November Jupiters use about 1.3W/GH at the wall, and the Neptune is supposed to be ~30% more efficient which puts it at ~1W/GH. Several competitors have already matched that including the Coincraft rigs, Dragon knockoffs, BitFury rigs, the Bitmain S2, and Spondoolies-Tech.

Several of these competitors (BitFury and Bitmain) have produced a product that uses 1W/GH using older 55 nm tech.

Also, the next generation ASICMiner chip is supposed to use well under 1W/GH.

So only undervolted CoinCraft rigs matched KnC. They are the only ones using 28nm. The rest aren't. You said "the most power inefficient 28nm rig" The other rigs aren't 28nm so you can't compare them.

Big deal. The point is, 20 and 28 nm were chosen for increased power efficiencies. It's a well known fact that in general, smaller die = less power. However, KNC failed in that regard when there is a list of hardware that is more efficient.

If AMD came out with a 55nm GPU that was more efficient than Nvidia's 28nm GPU, would you still brag that Nvidia was the most power efficient 28nm GPU? Of course not.
Nvidia would still have the most power efficient 28nm GPU. It won't have the most efficient GPU.
But what's the point? That would be like bringing a Prius to a Mustang convention and bragging that you have the fastest Prius in the show. It's a stupid comparison, that essentially means nothing.

The point is that the statement was wrong. That's it!
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
March 23, 2014, 03:54:46 PM
#23
Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

Proof? How power efficient are CT and HashFail?

I wasn't even talking about CT or HashFail because they both suck.

November Jupiters use about 1.3W/GH at the wall, and the Neptune is supposed to be ~30% more efficient which puts it at ~1W/GH. Several competitors have already matched that including the Coincraft rigs, Dragon knockoffs, BitFury rigs, the Bitmain S2, and Spondoolies-Tech.

Several of these competitors (BitFury and Bitmain) have produced a product that uses 1W/GH using older 55 nm tech.

Also, the next generation ASICMiner chip is supposed to use well under 1W/GH.

So only undervolted CoinCraft rigs matched KnC. They are the only ones using 28nm. The rest aren't. You said "the most power inefficient 28nm rig" The other rigs aren't 28nm so you can't compare them.

Big deal. The point is, 20 and 28 nm were chosen for increased power efficiencies. It's a well known fact that in general, smaller die = less power. However, KNC failed in that regard when there is a list of hardware that is more efficient.

If AMD came out with a 55nm GPU that was more efficient than Nvidia's 28nm GPU, would you still brag that Nvidia was the most power efficient 28nm GPU? Of course not.
Nvidia would still have the most power efficient 28nm GPU. It won't have the most efficient GPU.
But what's the point? That would be like bringing a Prius to a Mustang convention and bragging that you have the fastest Prius in the show. It's a stupid comparison, that essentially means nothing.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
March 23, 2014, 02:49:56 PM
#22
Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

Proof? How power efficient are CT and HashFail?

I wasn't even talking about CT or HashFail because they both suck.

November Jupiters use about 1.3W/GH at the wall, and the Neptune is supposed to be ~30% more efficient which puts it at ~1W/GH. Several competitors have already matched that including the Coincraft rigs, Dragon knockoffs, BitFury rigs, the Bitmain S2, and Spondoolies-Tech.

Several of these competitors (BitFury and Bitmain) have produced a product that uses 1W/GH using older 55 nm tech.

Also, the next generation ASICMiner chip is supposed to use well under 1W/GH.

So only undervolted CoinCraft rigs matched KnC. They are the only ones using 28nm. The rest aren't. You said "the most power inefficient 28nm rig" The other rigs aren't 28nm so you can't compare them.

Big deal. The point is, 20 and 28 nm were chosen for increased power efficiencies. It's a well known fact that in general, smaller die = less power. However, KNC failed in that regard when there is a list of hardware that is more efficient.

If AMD came out with a 55nm GPU that was more efficient than Nvidia's 28nm GPU, would you still brag that Nvidia was the most power efficient 28nm GPU? Of course not.

Nvidia would still have the most power efficient 28nm GPU. It won't have the most efficient GPU.
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
March 23, 2014, 01:42:08 PM
#21
Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

Proof? How power efficient are CT and HashFail?

I wasn't even talking about CT or HashFail because they both suck.

November Jupiters use about 1.3W/GH at the wall, and the Neptune is supposed to be ~30% more efficient which puts it at ~1W/GH. Several competitors have already matched that including the Coincraft rigs, Dragon knockoffs, BitFury rigs, the Bitmain S2, and Spondoolies-Tech.

Several of these competitors (BitFury and Bitmain) have produced a product that uses 1W/GH using older 55 nm tech.

Also, the next generation ASICMiner chip is supposed to use well under 1W/GH.

So only undervolted CoinCraft rigs matched KnC. They are the only ones using 28nm. The rest aren't. You said "the most power inefficient 28nm rig" The other rigs aren't 28nm so you can't compare them.

Big deal. The point is, 20 and 28 nm were chosen for increased power efficiencies. It's a well known fact that in general, smaller die = less power. However, KNC failed in that regard when there is a list of hardware that is more efficient.

If AMD came out with a 55nm GPU that was more efficient than Nvidia's 28nm GPU, would you still brag that Nvidia was the most power efficient 28nm GPU? Of course not.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
March 23, 2014, 01:26:24 PM
#20

You forgot one thing - HONESTY!

[Tom Hanks] Honesty?  THERE'S NO HONESTY IN BITCOIN! [/Tom Hanks]
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
March 23, 2014, 01:21:15 PM
#19
Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

Proof? How power efficient are CT and HashFail?

I wasn't even talking about CT or HashFail because they both suck.

November Jupiters use about 1.3W/GH at the wall, and the Neptune is supposed to be ~30% more efficient which puts it at ~1W/GH. Several competitors have already matched that including the Coincraft rigs, Dragon knockoffs, BitFury rigs, the Bitmain S2, and Spondoolies-Tech.

Several of these competitors (BitFury and Bitmain) have produced a product that uses 1W/GH using older 55 nm tech.

Also, the next generation ASICMiner chip is supposed to use well under 1W/GH.

So only undervolted CoinCraft rigs matched KnC. They are the only ones using 28nm. The rest aren't. You said "the most power inefficient 28nm rig" The other rigs aren't 28nm so you can't compare them.

That even makes my point more valid because it's not cheap to design and manufacture a bleeding edge 20nm product.

I strongly suspect that it will be much less expensive per GH for Chinese manufacturers to pump out older 28nm / 40nm / 55nm ASIC miners as fast as they can make them than it will be for Knc to deliver a 20nm product.

Basically, ignore the 20nm hype because it means very little in this game. It all comes down to price, delivery time, stability, and power efficiency.

You forgot one thing - HONESTY!
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
March 23, 2014, 01:20:08 PM
#18
I think KNC missed the boat on not doing another batch of 28nm......   but  they are the millionaires....  
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

I guess they decided to not release more 28nm units due to lack of competitors who are actually shipping. Amazing isn't it, a company who actually sticks to their promises.

seems the hardware market is heating up.

There is a good chance KnC might release more miners if and when HashFast and Cointerra finally shipped en masse.

Speaking of HashFast, they have just released a video showing their module board being assembled...  Fast forward to 0:26 for a laugh  Cheesy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rl6L8nt3Hc&feature=youtu.be

Team HashFast put a lot of thought into deciding what 30+ seconds they were going to upload from the minutes of footage taken. Image how must thought goes into the other aspects of their business if this is the barometer of what they opted to show the world.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
March 23, 2014, 09:29:00 AM
#17
Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

Proof? How power efficient are CT and HashFail?

I wasn't even talking about CT or HashFail because they both suck.

November Jupiters use about 1.3W/GH at the wall, and the Neptune is supposed to be ~30% more efficient which puts it at ~1W/GH. Several competitors have already matched that including the Coincraft rigs, Dragon knockoffs, BitFury rigs, the Bitmain S2, and Spondoolies-Tech.

Several of these competitors (BitFury and Bitmain) have produced a product that uses 1W/GH using older 55 nm tech.

Also, the next generation ASICMiner chip is supposed to use well under 1W/GH.

So only undervolted CoinCraft rigs matched KnC. They are the only ones using 28nm. The rest aren't. You said "the most power inefficient 28nm rig" The other rigs aren't 28nm so you can't compare them.

That even makes my point more valid because it's not cheap to design and manufacture a bleeding edge 20nm product.

I strongly suspect that it will be much less expensive per GH for Chinese manufacturers to pump out older 28nm / 40nm / 55nm ASIC miners as fast as they can make them than it will be for Knc to deliver a 20nm product.

Basically, ignore the 20nm hype because it means very little in this game. It all comes down to price, delivery time, stability, and power efficiency.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
March 23, 2014, 09:19:18 AM
#16
Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

Proof? How power efficient are CT and HashFail?

I wasn't even talking about CT or HashFail because they both suck.

November Jupiters use about 1.3W/GH at the wall, and the Neptune is supposed to be ~30% more efficient which puts it at ~1W/GH. Several competitors have already matched that including the Coincraft rigs, Dragon knockoffs, BitFury rigs, the Bitmain S2, and Spondoolies-Tech.

Several of these competitors (BitFury and Bitmain) have produced a product that uses 1W/GH using older 55 nm tech.

Also, the next generation ASICMiner chip is supposed to use well under 1W/GH.

So only undervolted CoinCraft rigs matched KnC. They are the only ones using 28nm. The rest aren't. You said "the most power inefficient 28nm rig" The other rigs aren't 28nm so you can't compare them.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
March 23, 2014, 09:13:46 AM
#15
Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

Proof? How power efficient are CT and HashFail?

I wasn't even talking about CT or HashFail because they both failed at their power targets and use over 1W/GH at the wall.

November Jupiters use about 1.3W/GH at the wall, and the Neptune is supposed to be ~30% more efficient which puts it at ~1W/GH. Several competitors have already matched that including the Coincraft rigs, Dragon knockoffs, BitFury rigs, the Bitmain S2, and Spondoolies-Tech.

Several of these competitors (BitFury and Bitmain) have produced a product that uses 1W/GH using older 55 nm tech.

Also, the next generation ASICMiner chip is supposed to use well under 1W/GH.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
March 23, 2014, 08:37:45 AM
#14
Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

Proof? How power efficient are CT and HashFail?
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
March 23, 2014, 08:26:55 AM
#13
Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
December 08, 2013, 11:39:11 PM
#12
Lots of hashfast boards going to ship with missing caps?
full member
Activity: 185
Merit: 100
December 08, 2013, 10:33:34 PM
#11
I think KNC missed the boat on not doing another batch of 28nm......   but  they are the millionaires....  
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

I guess they decided to not release more 28nm units due to lack of competitors who are actually shipping. Amazing isn't it, a company who actually sticks to their promises.

seems the hardware market is heating up.

There is a good chance KnC might release more miners if and when HashFast and Cointerra finally shipped en masse.

Speaking of HashFast, they have just released a video showing their module board being assembled...  Fast forward to 0:26 for a laugh  Cheesy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rl6L8nt3Hc&feature=youtu.be
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047
December 08, 2013, 10:17:49 PM
#10
I think KNC missed the boat on not doing another batch of 28nm......   but  they are the millionaires....  
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

I guess they decided to not release more 28nm units due to lack of competitors who are actually shipping. Amazing isn't it, a company who actually sticks to their promises.

seems the hardware market is heating up.
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1193
December 08, 2013, 09:28:05 PM
#9
Who said they aren't making more chips. They always said they will mine too. They are making them for themselves while they locked up their customers in the next gen chip.

Yup. Now that all the R&D is done, they can make really cheap miners and keep them in their hosting center for massive profits.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
December 08, 2013, 06:09:33 PM
#8
I think KNC missed the boat on not doing another batch of 28nm......   but  they are the millionaires....  
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

I guess they decided to not release more 28nm units due to lack of competitors who are actually shipping. Amazing isn't it, a company who actually sticks to their promises.

Who said they aren't making more chips. They always said they will mine too. They are making them for themselves while they locked up their customers in the next gen chip.
hero member
Activity: 575
Merit: 500
December 06, 2013, 12:34:43 PM
#7
I think KNC missed the boat on not doing another batch of 28nm......   but  they are the millionaires....  
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

I guess they decided to not release more 28nm units due to lack of competitors who are actually shipping. Amazing isn't it, a company who actually sticks to their promises.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
December 06, 2013, 10:39:34 AM
#6
Haha, definetly the millionaires.

What a hell of a business these little beasts are Smiley
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
December 06, 2013, 09:59:16 AM
#5
I think KNC missed the boat on not doing another batch of 28nm......   but  they are the millionaires.... 


I guess they know what they are doing

hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
December 06, 2013, 09:43:16 AM
#4
The 28nm KnC is no more power efficient than a bunch of 55nm BitFuries.
It was about 25-30% better $ per hash though.

I don't think a 20nm KnC will be any more efficient than a 28nm by Bitfury or Black Arrow
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1004
Glow Stick Dance!
December 06, 2013, 02:37:45 AM
#3
I have a Neptune preorder but not only because it's 20nm.  KNC did a great job with their 28nm series and I believe that they will go way beyond just the die shrink from 28nm to 20nm for Gen 2.  I think they've learned a lot from Gen 1 and will make further improvements.  But only time will tell, I guess.
full member
Activity: 167
Merit: 100
December 06, 2013, 02:08:33 AM
#2
20nm uses less power, and you can shove more transistors in the same area.  Thus, they are faster...

google is your friend...
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
December 06, 2013, 12:38:44 AM
#1
can someone help me with the new miners coming out, i am looking at the new neptune, and was wondering if the change in the size is a big difference from 28 to 20nm


Neptune is our first 20nm product and will be shipping in Q1/Q2 of 2014.
The stats and performance that we can release today are
Minimum 3000GH/s of hashing speed that 3TH Over 5 times the speed of our first Jupiter release
   (we reserve the right to increase this as we get closer to shipment)
A 30% reduction in watts per GH
Based on the existing Jupiter design (See photo, however this may change as development progresses)
Shipment begins in Q1/Q2 of 2014
Bitcoins first ever 20nm miner brought to you form the company who shipped the first 28nm bitcoin miner
Limited batch of 1200 units,
Payment for this product is bitcoins and bank transfer only.
All refunds will be refunded in dollars and you can refund up to shipment
$ 12,995.00

i can scrape together 13k but want to make sure, it will last more then a few month to try and make a profit, if the bitcoin stays close to its current value

thanks for any help
Jump to: