Author

Topic: 3 year old child pee's in his yard, police fine mother $2500 (Read 2178 times)

newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
Luckily the dog or their kids never got shot.

That would have been par for the course. We are, after all, talking about armed costumed men who will brutalize and even kill you if you resist obeying them. The cow is only good insofar as it produces milk and offspring -- cows who resist this are quickly slaughtered.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
Luckily the dog or their kids never got shot.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
you fail to see the differences in the definitions: facts have to be true while beliefs dont necessarily have to be false, they just cant be proven.

Facts can be proven. Beliefs cannot be.

The opposite of a specific belief may be another belief, or it may be a fact.

The opposite of "a belief" is "a fact."

->  karl popper, objective knowledge

you might not be stupid but you certainly lack philosophic education.

fornit's absolutely right here. Terrible discourse, even though I'd be on the AnCap side of the debate.

Exactly.  It is not a "belief" to conclude that "it's clearly wrong to fine a mother for her toddler urinating in her own house" -- it's just a statement of painfully obvious fact.

Good rhetoric, but please refrain from pushing it as a formal statement.

Going back to USA being a hellhole... At least everything is being openly discussed, that should be a good sign. Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1016
Strength in numbers
He shouldn't have been peeing in the officer's yard.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
He's lucky he's not on the sex offender list.

Very True.

I have a neighbor... who got prosecuted as a sex offender for taking a leak behind his tractor tire, in his field, about 150 feet from a state highway... where a trooper had pulled over a mini-van full of kids.

newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
actually both are beliefs. the opposite of a correct statement is a false statement, the opposite of an belief is another belief.

Nope.

A belief is:
Quote
something believed;  an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
or:
Quote
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
or:
Quote
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

The opposite of a belief is a fact:
Quote
something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
or:
Quote
something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
or:
Quote
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

Sorry to ruin your belief with facts.

BOOM!  Flawless victory.  Excellent response.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Nananananananananananana I don't want to hear it nanananananananananana
+1

...still giggling.
hero member
Activity: 991
Merit: 1011
you fail to see the differences in the definitions: facts have to be true while beliefs dont necessarily have to be false, they just cant be proven.

Facts can be proven. Beliefs cannot be.

The opposite of a specific belief may be another belief, or it may be a fact.

The opposite of "a belief" is "a fact."

->  karl popper, objective knowledge

you might not be stupid but you certainly lack philosophic education.
hero member
Activity: 950
Merit: 1001
I don't think statism is the root cause of this problem, it's social conservatism. An anarchist community could adopt a rule like "no visible peeing" too. The tool we use to enforce those norms (voting, bidding, consensus, etc) are independent of the norms. Even if you're supposedly adhering to the NAP (which isn't the only anarchism), there are social conservatives who will argue that "flashing is aggression" all day. They'd be wrong, but there's enough of them that they'd be able to sustain anarchist communities of their own.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
you fail to see the differences in the definitions: facts have to be true while beliefs dont necessarily have to be false, they just cant be proven.

Facts can be proven. Beliefs cannot be.

The opposite of a specific belief may be another belief, or it may be a fact.

The opposite of "a belief" is "a fact."
hero member
Activity: 991
Merit: 1011
actually both are beliefs. the opposite of a correct statement is a false statement, the opposite of an belief is another belief.

Nope.

A belief is:
Quote
something believed;  an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.

The opposite of a belief is a fact:
Quote
something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.

you fail to see the differences in the definitions: facts have to be true while beliefs dont necessarily have to be false, they just cant be proven.
"the earth is flat" is a false statement. "the earth is a not flat" is a correct statement.
"there is intelligent life on other planets" is a belief. "there is no intelligent life on other planets" is also a belief.

Quote
Sorry to ruin your belief with facts.

the only thing you are ruining is my optimistic belief in humanity...
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1001
-
prisoners of the cave
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
actually both are beliefs. the opposite of a correct statement is a false statement, the opposite of an belief is another belief.

Nope.

A belief is:
Quote
something believed;  an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
or:
Quote
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
or:
Quote
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

The opposite of a belief is a fact:
Quote
something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
or:
Quote
something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
or:
Quote
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

Sorry to ruin your belief with facts.
hero member
Activity: 991
Merit: 1011

Exactly.  It is not a "belief" to conclude that "it's clearly wrong to fine a mother for her toddler urinating in her own house" -- it's just a statement of painfully obvious fact.

It is, however, a belief (an irrational, supernatural, religious belief) to think that it's good to do such a horrible thing, so long as one is wearing a costume, or one is obeying pieces of paper.

sigh...
actually both are beliefs. the opposite of a correct statement is a false statement, the opposite of an belief is another belief.
besides, i never stated that i disagree with the first opinion. something can be correct and its presentation can still be progaganda.

Quote
And the fact that fornit is classifying the denunciation of such a horrible act as "reinforcement of beliefs" is only evidence that his irrational belief in the magical papers and costumes got questioned by the denunciation.  As usual, religious believers will lie by accusing atheists of having "beliefs" (insofar as calling something a "belief" is a propaganda tactic to disqualify and discredit correct conclusions).  Nothing more than just another instance of the pot calling the wedding dress black.

The only person whose beliefs got fornitcated here is fornit.

A small precision, though: I'm not trying to wake fornit up.  A person who has been informed of obvious reality and ethics, but persists on denying it and dissociating from reality, cannot be called "ignorant" anymore -- he's just evil.

for someone deeming himself an atheist you sure got the self-righteous raging and dwelling in moral superiority right. most fanatics would be proud....
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Statism, together with its essential belief "magical pieces of paper with orders allow us to decide who is good or bad", is the root cause of these malevolent and exploitative absurdities.
Without "statism" the owner of the property could have killed the child just for intruding on his property, and if you're consistent about the policy you're arguing for, nobody could have done anything about it. How is that less absurd?
1. You'll note that it was the child's (or rather, the family's) own front yard. Even if AnCaps suggested that shooting 3-year old trespassers was justified, nobody was trespassing in this case.
2. Summarily shooting trespassers can (and occasionally, does) happen even today. Most AnCaps, however, would agree that it's rather excessive. A justifiable response uses proportional force, in this case, just enough to remove them from your land - which in the case of a three year old child would be very little indeed.
3. Finally, far from "nobody" could have done anything about it... just because there's no monopoly court does not mean there's no justice. Quite the opposite, in fact.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
Statism, together with its essential belief "magical pieces of paper with orders allow us to decide who is good or bad", is the root cause of these malevolent and exploitative absurdities.
Without "statism" the owner of the property could have killed the child just for intruding on his property

That's strictly true whether people believe in statism or not.

Statism contains, in fact, the very belief you bring to bear here, that magical pieces of paper protect you and others from such things happening.  You'll note how this is no different from the faith of Abrahamic religions in their pieces of paper.

, and if you're consistent about the policy you're arguing for, nobody could have done anything about it. How is that less absurd?

I'm not sure what policy you think I'm arguing for... namely because I haven't actually set forth any policy to deal with toddlers peeing on people's property, so I'm not sure what you're criticizing here.
legendary
Activity: 1284
Merit: 1001
Statism, together with its essential belief "magical pieces of paper with orders allow us to decide who is good or bad", is the root cause of these malevolent and exploitative absurdities.
Without "statism" the owner of the property could have killed the child just for intruding on his property, and if you're consistent about the policy you're arguing for, nobody could have done anything about it. How is that less absurd?
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
and that from a bunch of guys who need to reinforce their beliefs with a constant stream of biased news reports and videos...
We're not trying to "reinforce our beliefs," we're trying to wake you up.

Exactly.  It is not a "belief" to conclude that "it's clearly wrong to fine a mother for her toddler urinating in her own house" -- it's just a statement of painfully obvious fact.

It is, however, a belief (an irrational, supernatural, religious belief) to think that it's good to do such a horrible thing, so long as one is wearing a costume, or one is obeying pieces of paper.

And the fact that fornit is classifying the denunciation of such a horrible act as "reinforcement of beliefs" is only evidence that his irrational belief in the magical papers and costumes got questioned by the denunciation.  As usual, religious believers will lie by accusing atheists of having "beliefs" (insofar as calling something a "belief" is a propaganda tactic to disqualify and discredit correct conclusions).  Nothing more than just another instance of the pot calling the wedding dress black.

The only person whose beliefs got fornitcated here is fornit.

A small precision, though: I'm not trying to wake fornit up.  A person who has been informed of obvious reality and ethics, but persists on denying it and dissociating from reality, cannot be called "ignorant" anymore -- he's just evil.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
and that from a bunch of guys who need to reinforce their beliefs with a constant stream of biased news reports and videos...
We're not trying to "reinforce our beliefs," we're trying to wake you up.
hero member
Activity: 991
Merit: 1011
and that from a bunch of guys who need to reinforce their beliefs with a constant stream of biased news reports and videos...
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
your liberterian propaganda gets really old.
you can post a brazillion fails from your fail state, that doesnt prove anything. except that the usa is pretty fucked up, but that isnt news at all.

When you say this, all I hear is

Nananananananananananana I don't want to hear it nanananananananananana
and it makes me giggle. So thanks for the laugh.


Seconding this.  fornit's just trying to plug his ears and go "lalalalalalala I can't hear you" because he knows that statism is the root cause of such malevolences as posted by OP, and he'd rather not be made aware of reality, because it's too painful to continue believing in statism and acknowledge reality at the same time.

Statism, together with its essential belief "magical pieces of paper with orders allow us to decide who is good or bad", is the root cause of these malevolent and exploitative absurdities.
hero member
Activity: 926
Merit: 1001
weaving spiders come not here
I'm assuming everyone here sees these public "indecency" laws as the problem, right? The scary consensus on news9 is "Oh YOUR dick is still SO disturbing that I'm entitled to force it into hiding. But a cute little kid when he's being potty trained is special, so I blame the cop for not making arbitrary exceptions on his own." wtf

while slutwalk participants are cheered for showing some titty.
hero member
Activity: 950
Merit: 1001
I'm assuming everyone here sees these public "indecency" laws as the problem, right? The scary consensus on news9 is "Oh YOUR dick is still SO disturbing that I'm entitled to force it into hiding. But a cute little kid when he's being potty trained is special, so I blame the cop for not making arbitrary exceptions on his own." wtf
hero member
Activity: 926
Merit: 1001
weaving spiders come not here
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Portland Bitcoin Group Organizer
It's funny cause it's not true.  Tongue
sr. member
Activity: 354
Merit: 250
your liberterian propaganda gets really old.
you can post a brazillion fails from your fail state, that doesnt prove anything. except that the usa is pretty fucked up, but that isnt news at all.

>Libertarian propaganda
>propaganda
>wat
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
your liberterian propaganda gets really old.
you can post a brazillion fails from your fail state, that doesnt prove anything. except that the usa is pretty fucked up, but that isnt news at all.

When you say this, all I hear is

Nananananananananananana I don't want to hear it nanananananananananana
and it makes me giggle. So thanks for the laugh.
sr. member
Activity: 435
Merit: 250
your liberterian propaganda gets really old.
you can post a brazillion fails from your fail state, that doesnt prove anything. except that the usa is pretty fucked up, but that isnt news at all.

Are you talking about the fine, or about uneducated kids? Tongue
hero member
Activity: 991
Merit: 1011
your liberterian propaganda gets really old.
you can post a brazillion fails from your fail state, that doesnt prove anything. except that the usa is pretty fucked up, but that isnt news at all.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
He's lucky he's not on the sex offender list.
hero member
Activity: 926
Merit: 1001
weaving spiders come not here
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