500.casino scamming for $10k on the basis of being limited on other markets.

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I have successfully wasted almost half an hour reading all those things. As far as I understand, OP does not tell the whole story. It happens in most cases which makes them look like innocent victim. There is no reason for someone to create a 2nd account to place bets if they do not have any intention to bypass the limit. Creating an account because they cannot make transactions with some exchanges is just an excuse.

Usually, I never speak against players and do not take sides of the casinos. I like to examine the case first. In this case, it does not look for the OP. I am sorry if you are a innocent victim. But, it does not look good to me.

holydarkness

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The reason why you choose to open your second account is simply and solely because your exchange, Newton, wouldn't allow you to deposit [withdrawal to certain address] numerous times to your first account? And if you want to open this "restriction" you'll have to contact their support, which was not possible to do because it was new year's eve and new year [31st and 1st]?

Rioluth

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Quote from: UserU on January 10, 2024, 10:21:04 PM

Quote from: holydarkness on January 10, 2024, 05:48:35 AM

From your side, OP did not open his second account because he's unable to deposit to his account from his newton exchange, it's because he wanted to have an unrestricted bets that can't be achieved from his first [limited] account?

From what I was informed, that is correct.

@Rioluth, as this conversation is solely between you and Cossaq, below is his response:

Quote

The above information is false.

There are no sports or market specific limits. If a limit is imposed upon your account, its on all sports categories.

The user never mentioned any issues with some exchange, just got a new account - against ToS. There's a logic error - if he thought it's only X and Y limit, then he should be able to bet on Tennis from the same account regardless - just like he claimed he did on esports.

We don't have anything like "player props limits", it's a nonsense narrative that user is trying to push, in order to look like he's right. You can bet $150 on Dota and $25 on player props because that's how popular markets scale - of course you're able to bet more on S-tier esports.

Terms of Service was broken multiple times, creating new account is a severe breach - the decision stands.

First of all I will leave this screenshot as a reference here that I contacted support and was aware of the specific imposed limits on the 23rd Sep - https://talkimg.com/images/2024/01/11/sKO5b.jpeg

Quite weird how there's no sports or market specific limits that can be imposed according to Cossaq, but I am unable to profit more than $8 from a player prop bet on probably the sport with the highest limits there could be (NFL American Football) - https://talkimg.com/images/2024/01/11/sKeUv.jpeg. That prop bet was placed with the maximum it allowed. While at the same time I am free to make bets with profits of at least $300 on Esports - a sports and a market that are widely known to be infinite times more susceptible to various risks like match fixing. Makes me seriously doubt Cossaq's claim.

"if he thought it's only X and Y limit, then he should be able to bet on Tennis from the same account regardless - just like he claimed he did on esports."
Except I did. I've placed a bet on one the last high tier tennis event of 2023 - ATP World Tour Finals. - https://talkimg.com/images/2024/01/11/sb2Gd.jpeg
Then afterwards I was unable to deposit to the account right as the 2024 Tennis season kicked off around new years since I knew I wouldn't be able to get a response from exchange support in any kind of timely manner I created an alt account which I instantly verified before placing any bets or doing any deposits for 500Casino to immediately recognize the customer and to not signal me trying to game the system maliciously.

"You can bet $150 on Dota and $25 on player props because that's how popular markets scale - of course you're able to bet more on S-tier esports."

I think Cossaq had a typo there mixing up player props with the NBA bet, because I am certainly not able to bet that much on previously mentioned player props, as seen here - https://talkimg.com/images/2024/01/11/sKeUv.jpeg. But this literally doesn't make sense. Is he trying to imply NFL or NBA is a less popular market and more prone to limits than any Esports market? Definitely not true. It's pretty much impossible to beat the house with the house edge on a sport and event like NFL, known to have some of the sharpest lines in existence.

UserU

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Quote from: holydarkness on January 10, 2024, 05:48:35 AM

From your side, OP did not open his second account because he's unable to deposit to his account from his newton exchange, it's because he wanted to have an unrestricted bets that can't be achieved from his first [limited] account?

From what I was informed, that is correct.

@Rioluth, as this conversation is solely between you and Cossaq, below is his response:

Quote

The above information is false.

There are no sports or market specific limits. If a limit is imposed upon your account, its on all sports categories.

The user never mentioned any issues with some exchange, just got a new account - against ToS. There's a logic error - if he thought it's only X and Y limit, then he should be able to bet on Tennis from the same account regardless - just like he claimed he did on esports.

We don't have anything like "player props limits", it's a nonsense narrative that user is trying to push, in order to look like he's right. You can bet $150 on Dota and $25 on player props because that's how popular markets scale - of course you're able to bet more on S-tier esports.

Terms of Service was broken multiple times, creating new account is a severe breach - the decision stands.

Rioluth

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Quote

Ok, I think I get a much better understanding of the situation here from the latest screenshots.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, your first account was limited on American Football and Baseball, and you thought it won't matter if you bet tennis on your alt-account because the ones being limited [on the other account] is football and baseball, and thus you did not attempting to bypass limitation, as tennis were not limited on any of your account?

Have you previously check if you're selectively-limited [only on football and baseball and perhaps few other sports] or the limitation applies globally across every sports betting on your main account?

Yes! You pretty much aced it.

Yes my account was limited on American Football and Baseball player prop markets that I was aware of since I tried to place higher than $20 bets on it and wouldn't allow me to place anything more than maybe $10 if I remember correctly (As seen in the conversation with support from my main account where I've asked about it).

I couldn't find any other limitations within a reasonable amount of money placed that I've had on the account and thus I couldn't have been aware of them if I had any - I've been able to place multiple bets for the various promotions that 500Casino run such as their Dota2 and Counter-Strike event promotions those have been $150+ bets and for example my last bet on that account was a $25 basketball bet which both are higher than the max I was able to bet on American football and Baseball player prop bets. And I am stressing that the limitations I was aware of were on the player prop markets, since those are much more difficult to adjust odds for and thus softer and easier to be profitable on than say regular match winner bets and thus being prone to limitations more often from the provider.

Example bets I've mentioned here ($150 bets are from the latest promotion there was): https://talkimg.com/images/2024/01/10/sine1.jpeg
https://talkimg.com/images/2024/01/10/siZ1l.jpeg
https://talkimg.com/images/2024/01/10/siSTT.jpeg

holydarkness

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Rioluth

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Quote from: holydarkness on January 10, 2024, 06:15:05 AM

Quote from: Rioluth on January 10, 2024, 05:57:18 AM

Quote from: holydarkness on January 10, 2024, 05:48:35 AM

I'm actually referring to the one where you're given a green light to open second account, unless I understand what you tried to say wrongly?

The green light was implied as in opening the account without any problems, immediately being fully allowed to pass both levels of KYC with the same documents as my main account and having no problems depositing and playing. The account got locked once I wanted to withdraw and as a reasoning I got me trying to avoid limits placed on my main account.

I've posted a response to the response I've received from Cossaq above your post.

Umm... but were you informing them prior to opening the second account, that you'll do that, and they tell you that it's ok?

I have to be honest that I am still unsteady with the screenshots of the conversation you provide, even after reading it several times. I think it's simply because they're cropped here and there, so we can't be sure if nothing is missing. Do you mind reuploading them in this format below, so it shows in full, and perhaps each of the screenshot shows the last line of dialog from the previous screenshot so we can be sure of their order? Oh, and upload them through talkimg, if you don't mind?

https://i.ibb.co/fYpwZjY/image.png

holydarkness

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Quote from: Rioluth on January 10, 2024, 05:57:18 AM

Quote from: holydarkness on January 10, 2024, 05:48:35 AM

I'm actually referring to the one where you're given a green light to open second account, unless I understand what you tried to say wrongly?

The green light was implied as in opening the account without any problems, immediately being fully allowed to pass both levels of KYC with the same documents as my main account and having no problems depositing and playing. The account got locked once I wanted to withdraw and as a reasoning I got me trying to avoid limits placed on my main account.

I've posted a response to the response I've received from Cossaq above your post.

Umm... but were you informing them prior to opening the second account, that you'll do that, and they tell you that it's ok?

I have to be honest that I am still unsteady with the screenshots of the conversation you provide, even after reading it several times. I think it's simply because they're cropped here and there, so we can't be sure if nothing is missing. Do you mind reuploading them in this format below, so it shows in full, and perhaps each of the screenshot shows the last line of dialog from the previous screenshot so we can be sure of their order? Oh, and upload them through talkimg, if you don't mind?

Rioluth

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Quote from: holydarkness on January 10, 2024, 05:48:35 AM

I'm actually referring to the one where you're given a green light to open second account, unless I understand what you tried to say wrongly?

The green light was implied as in opening the account without any problems, immediately being fully allowed to pass both levels of KYC with the same documents as my main account and having no problems depositing and playing. The account got locked once I wanted to withdraw and as a reasoning I got me trying to avoid limits placed on my main account.

I've posted a response to the response I've received from Cossaq above your post.

holydarkness

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Quote from: UserU on January 09, 2024, 10:00:44 PM

After reviewing your case, the team has posted a response:
[...]

From your side, OP did not open his second account because he's unable to deposit to his account from his newton exchange, it's because he wanted to have an unrestricted bets that can't be achieved from his first [limited] account?

Quote from: Rioluth on January 09, 2024, 05:53:41 PM

[...]
All the screenshots posted above are from my live chat conversation from my 2nd account and all of them have been responded to by Cossaq the as far as i know main sportsbook admin of 500casino. Except for these ones which were conversation with support from the main account [...]

I'm actually referring to the one where you're given a green light to open second account, unless I understand what you tried to say wrongly?

Given the screenshots are what you intended to provide here and nothing is missing, I am reuploading them to talkimg so anyone interested can read them easier. But, I think it'll be better if you can re-upload the whole conversation where the first part of each of the screenshots shows that it's a continuation of the last part of the previous one, so everybody can be assured that nothing is missing and see that the dialog is chronological.

Edit: tidying the image

Rioluth

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Quote from: UserU on January 09, 2024, 10:00:44 PM

After reviewing your case, the team has posted a response:

Quote

Hey,

I'm sorry you feel inconvenienced, but even screenshots you posted state that you would never be able to make this profit if you stuck to your 1st, limited account. You created next account which is a severe breach of our Terms of Service.

Sadly, your screenshots are singular excerpts that do not provide full context. For example, when you posted screenshot "https://ibb.co/nmwT48f" you forgot to include our next message (that you displayed and read), which reads as follows:
"To add, it's instantly noticeable when you continue using our Sportsbook, because the system no longer allows you stakes that you used to play before. Limits never go unnoticed for the user."

Additionally, you don't have to know what are you limits, because you're supposed to have just one account. If you're making a second account to continue on playing sports then you know what you're doing - you wouldn't breach our guidelines otherwise.

Your case has been reviewed by 3 different Sportsbook operators and several members of the support team. We've talked to you through many support tickets, bringing context as to why we had to ban you - you were provided with all the information and decision was reviewed multiple times.

Numerous points of our Terms of Service were broken and you said you understand this. You attempted to bargain for lower withdrawal amounts, knowing you're in the wrong, but still seeking compensation on a lucky run - which should have never happened due to limits.

Unfortunately, this is the last time we're responding to your claims, because the case has been reviewed at least 5 times at this point. The outcome won't change and we don't negotiate with abusers.

Sorry I couldn't be more of help,
Cossaq

Thank you for for taking your time for the case.

It's very convenient from Cossaq's side to say that my screenshots don't provide full context when in the example he gave he responded to my friends question about 10-15min after the chat conversation was already closed and completed (https://ibb.co/JR7J8DR) with Taniq in which he gave me the response that I've posted in the original post, which is the response my friend received regarding the question and the screenshot I received from him.

And to answer Cossaq's after the fact response - Unfortunately no it's factually incorrect that it's instantly noticeable. While it being true that the system notifies you and doesn't allow you to place the bet if you try to bet over a certain limit - 1. It's impossible to tell if you're limited if you never go over the limit to begin with (Which I did not in the case of tennis bets on both accounts) and I've been able to place some fairly sizeable bets on different markets on my main account including tennis. 2. There is no set limits for markets, what's the supposed default max bet for example for Australia Open tennis markets currently? If I am allowed to bet only say 200USD on lower tier ITF tennis, but 2000USD on higher tier ATP tennis does that mean my account got limited by the provider? Of course not, because the limits change per event depending on many details such as tier of the event played, players and more. 3. There is no any sort of notification, any sort of message or information available anywhere that it could tell you if you have been limited on the sportsbook or not and on which markets or bets, there is no max bet button with which I could check my limits, the only way to even remotely see how much you can bet on a certain market is by depositing the money on the account and attempting to place the maximum it allows, which in the case of high tier ATP tennis is thousands and thousands of dollars. And from the response I've received from Taniq it seems that 500Casino themselves don't fully know what limits the provider (Betsy) imposes on the accounts. And as I've explained the reason for creating the 2nd account is me being unable to deposit to my main account from my Newton exchange, and me being given the green light by essentially without any sort of problems creating the account then proceeding to immediately fully KYC verify it including ID and address with the same documents used as on my main, depositing and playing didn't give any problems - until it was time to withdraw from winning it on such a lucky streak.

I don't think there is any sort of common word we can meet on with Cossaq since he seems to once again think me being made aware of specific limits imposed and notified by the support (MLB and NFL player props) and then betting on completely different sport and no player prop markets on my 2nd account = being aware of any other limits imposed on my main, which I've explained before why I couldn't be aware of any tennis limits imposed on my main if I did have any.

I would appreciate it if I would get a response from Suspect the owner of the site who is also on here on Bitcointalk and with which I attempted to contact a few times through support chat and even through Twitter - https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/thesuspect500-2892948

And it seems to be quite a rude behavior from Cossaq's side to immediately imply I am lying and close the chat on my first attempt to contact support - https://ibb.co/pjz5WwW, https://ibb.co/HdcwFNx (The proof he provides is from the same response I've received about my MLB and NFL prop limit from which he conveniently cuts off that part)

UserU

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After reviewing your case, the team has posted a response:

Quote

Hey,

I'm sorry you feel inconvenienced, but even screenshots you posted state that you would never be able to make this profit if you stuck to your 1st, limited account. You created next account which is a severe breach of our Terms of Service.

Sadly, your screenshots are singular excerpts that do not provide full context. For example, when you posted screenshot "https://ibb.co/nmwT48f" you forgot to include our next message (that you displayed and read), which reads as follows:
"To add, it's instantly noticeable when you continue using our Sportsbook, because the system no longer allows you stakes that you used to play before. Limits never go unnoticed for the user."

Additionally, you don't have to know what are you limits, because you're supposed to have just one account. If you're making a second account to continue on playing sports then you know what you're doing - you wouldn't breach our guidelines otherwise.

Your case has been reviewed by 3 different Sportsbook operators and several members of the support team. We've talked to you through many support tickets, bringing context as to why we had to ban you - you were provided with all the information and decision was reviewed multiple times.

Numerous points of our Terms of Service were broken and you said you understand this. You attempted to bargain for lower withdrawal amounts, knowing you're in the wrong, but still seeking compensation on a lucky run - which should have never happened due to limits.

Unfortunately, this is the last time we're responding to your claims, because the case has been reviewed at least 5 times at this point. The outcome won't change and we don't negotiate with abusers.

Sorry I couldn't be more of help,
Cossaq

UserU

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Thanks holydarkness for informing.

@Rioluth, I've brought your case to the team's attention so they will look into it.

Rioluth

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Quote from: holydarkness on January 09, 2024, 05:39:51 PM

I'll try to invite UserU here so he can present what his internal investigation said and give his side of this case. He's quite prompt on solving cases. Meanwhile, are your images name are meant to be in numerical order, I think you missed some? It jumped from 5 to 11. I'll upload them for visibility once they're completed to avoid confusion.

And, although the support on your above screenshots said it won't help, if you can provide screenshots of your conversation with Cossaq or or whoever live support that talk with you about second account, maybe it won't hurt?

Thank you for taking the time to look at this case.

I've removed some screenshots which don't really effect the case where I've asked why am I not allowed to withdraw my initial deposit as well and if my main account will be banned as well.

And I am not sure what you mean by "And, although the support on your above screenshots said it won't help, if you can provide screenshots of your conversation with Cossaq or or whoever live support that talk with you about second account, maybe it won't hurt?"

All the screenshots posted above are from my live chat conversation from my 2nd account and all of them have been responded to by Cossaq the as far as i know main sportsbook admin of 500casino. Except for these ones which were conversation with support from the main account - https://ibb.co/qM0fVzR, https://ibb.co/mtnx2GF

holydarkness

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Yes, I'm an asshole

I'll try to invite UserU here so he can present what his internal investigation said and give his side of this case. He's quite prompt on solving cases. Meanwhile, are your images name are meant to be in numerical order, I think you missed some? It jumped from 5 to 11. I'll upload them for visibility once they're completed to avoid confusion.

And, although the support on your above screenshots said it won't help, if you can provide screenshots of your conversation with Cossaq or or whoever live support that talk with you about second account, maybe it won't hurt?

Rioluth

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What happened: I registered an account on 500.casino on the 31st Dec and immediately KYC verified my account since it was my 2nd account (I was unable to deposit to my main from my Newton exchange as can be seen mentioned in one of my support messages) and I didn't want to hide it or break their TOS, I was given the green light, the documents got accepted and my account got verified https://ibb.co/xJwRyNk and I deposited 185.97USD in LTC and I ran it up to 10000.02USD with only tennis bets on both pre-match bets, live bets and combo bets (https://ibb.co/wLDwvQr, https://ibb.co/drT88BC). And once I've attempted to withdraw it got declined and for the reason I was given that I am attempting to evade sports betting limits imposed on my main account. And the problem here being that I had Baseball and American Football player prop limits imposed on my main account that I was aware of as seen from the conversation with support there from a few months ago - (https://ibb.co/qM0fVzR, https://ibb.co/mtnx2GF) and apparently I was also given other limits that I wasn't aware of and since that support conversation I was able to place fairly sizeable bets on tennis on my main account and even on their promotions with $150 bets.

Their take on this is since I was given and made aware of Baseball and American football player prop sports betting limits on my main account (https://ibb.co/qM0fVzR, https://ibb.co/mtnx2GF), that means I was aware of any other limit imposed on my account including tennis (Which I couldn't since I've bet fairly sizeable bets since that support conversation on my main and on top of that there is no max bet button for example with which you could track and check if you have any sort of limits imposed. I would have to deposit fairly large and try to bet large to even be remotely suspicious if I was limited or not and from my contact with support I haven't received any information for other limits) I will attach the full live support conversation I had with Cossaq the main sportsbook admin there.

Me being made aware of limits on MLB/NFL player props = me being aware of any other limits I had imposed on my account is Cossaq's take on this.

In addition to the above, I asked my friend to contact support if they are able to tell him what limits he has imposed and 500casino themselves don't even know what limits and for how much - https://ibb.co/nmwT48f|
So it's impossible to figure out if I am even limited on tennis or not.

Edit: Would really love Suspects take on this issue since the people responsible for sportsbook seem to have their opinion on this and if being aware of specific limits and not abusing those specific limits is okay for a ban.

Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/useru-1452494 , https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/thesuspect500-2892948

Reference Link: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/500-casino-1-mil-insta-bonus-bonanza-wheel-casino-sports-plinko-battle-5296113
Amount Scammed: 10000.02USD
Payment Method: Crypto (LTC)
Proof of Payment: https://ibb.co/jwMff14
PM/Chat Logs: https://ibb.co/mRkrPxX
https://ibb.co/7JynTQY
https://ibb.co/pjz5WwW
https://ibb.co/6WrptWc
https://ibb.co/Js4xRh8
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https://ibb.co/pfKLgXc
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https://ibb.co/cb8QDWW
https://ibb.co/86ngNyc
https://ibb.co/sVV90Ss
https://ibb.co/YcTFNtH
https://ibb.co/D4r9gMJ
https://ibb.co/kGq408Z
https://ibb.co/vBwBpsC
https://ibb.co/16dV86L
https://ibb.co/5GRxT8m
https://ibb.co/njWXWMy
Additional Notes:

Topic: 500.casino scamming for $10k on the basis of being limited on other markets. (Read 183 times)