51% attack, possible with segwith2x?

ArnoldChippy

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Quote from: michkima on November 08, 2017, 04:20:36 AM

So I've been reading an article on Coindesk recently, about a new possibility of a 51% attack.

Link here, https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoins-bogeyman-cometh-segwit2x-51-attack/.

From what I understood, it is the ability of a miner with 51% hashing power of the whole network to be able to control bitcoin transactions. They can possibly not confirm a transaction, change a transaction, and other awful effects. This attack almost happened 3 years ago with ghash.io mining pool almost reaching 51% (they were so close, when they reached 50% hashing power).

Now, fast forward to today, this attack is again looking possible because, from what I read, the segwit2x was being pushed by a group of miners, that, if combined, will result to 80% of the hashing power of the world. Well that is assuming the pool members will not leave their respective pools that joined the new york agreement. From my further readings, the people that met for the new york agreement had a close door meeting, hence there is no clear information that discloses what they talked about in there.

What if these people colluded to attack bitcoins using the 51% attack? Do you guys think this is a possibility and will those entities that are pushing for segwit2x attack the network?

No I don’t really believe on any of the article of the coindesk. It is a speculation based website which publishes paid articles; those are used by speculators for their own benefits and not to educate the users. I remember the JP Morgan CEO “James Dimon” statement in the past days who speculated bitcoin value that caused a great damage to the users. I was the one personally affected by that statement of James Dimon and the reason was the coindesk article. However there is information about the bitcoin future shared on the coindesk but I don’t take it serious at all. My suggestion to all the members of the forum is to ignore such articles and make your own way.

malikusama

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Quote from: Red-Apple on November 08, 2017, 08:19:27 AM

Quote from: michkima on November 08, 2017, 04:20:36 AM

From what I understood, it is the ability of a miner with 51% hashing power of the whole network to be able to control bitcoin transactions.

the thing about 51% attack that i have learned is the fact that 51% is the border line of the limit that you should have to start doing the attack not the amount that you can pull it off with. for that you probably need more than 70% or possibly even more.

That's the thing 51% doesn't mean that they will replace the original chain but they are somehow eligible to do it if their attack would be more stronger.

Quote from: michkima on November 08, 2017, 04:20:36 AM

Now, fast forward to today, this attack is again looking possible because, from what I read, the segwit2x was being pushed by a group of miners, that, if combined, will result to 80% of the hashing power of the world.

It will be a threat but still there isn't any confirmation about the combining of miner's group which will make around 80% of the total hash power because there is a contradiction between them too.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: michkima on November 08, 2017, 07:50:59 AM

They can hold the bitcoin network hostage, that's how they will benefit. They can impose that they be paid for whatever they are doing and we can't do anything about it but heed to their demands. Unless we all move to another coin and forget about the chain they are in. I guess, it has an unpredictable consequence which could lead to great chaos.

If someone does this they pretty much guarantee that the Bitcoin network will be forever worthless. No one's going to trust it again. No one's going to award it any value. The world will have to wait for a chain immune to this angle before people get interested again.

The only people who'd do this would be those who want to destroy it completely. At present Bitcoin's enemies with anything approaching this capability are people who want to control and co opt it, not kill it.

bitofc

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possible, but there is no benefit of doing this as everyone would know which group is attacking.
risk/reward ratio is certainly not there for the attackers to launch attack on any bitcoin network.

Red-Apple

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Quote from: michkima on November 08, 2017, 04:20:36 AM

From what I understood, it is the ability of a miner with 51% hashing power of the whole network to be able to control bitcoin transactions.

the thing about 51% attack that i have learned is the fact that 51% is the border line of the limit that you should have to start doing the attack not the amount that you can pull it off with. for that you probably need more than 70% or possibly even more.

Quote

They can possibly not confirm a transaction, change a transaction, and other awful effects.

you can not "change" a transaction! that would mean bitcoin is broken Wink

what you do in a 51% attack is that you double spend. and in this process you have to make it worth the effort, otherwise you are wasting a lot of power for nothing!

otherwise no "awful" result would come out of 51% attack if you are just rejecting other blocks and building your own chain!.

Quote

This attack almost happened 3 years ago with ghash.io mining pool almost reaching 51% (they were so close, when they reached 50% hashing power).

i believe they were close to 51% for a long time and people were worried and some day they reached 60% (it was also a mining pool after all and people were connecting to them) and nothing bad ever happened!

Quote

What if these people colluded to attack bitcoins using the 51% attack? Do you guys think this is a possibility and will those entities that are pushing for segwit2x attack the network?

they already have the hashrate, if they wanted, they could have attacked bitcoin all this time. what would SegWit2x change? if the 80% leaves to mine 2x the hashrate of 1x drops and if they leave 2x to attack 1x the 2x hashrate will also drop.
all these can potentially cause a huge drop in price. i don't think miners would want that. and as i said above 51% attack is hard and expensive already without the price drop!

michkima

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Quote from: portstarboard on November 08, 2017, 05:01:35 AM

This is a very real possibility but how would they benefit from this? With a crashed bitcoin network their existence would be shortlived, thereafter.

They can hold the bitcoin network hostage, that's how they will benefit. They can impose that they be paid for whatever they are doing and we can't do anything about it but heed to their demands. Unless we all move to another coin and forget about the chain they are in. I guess, it has an unpredictable consequence which could lead to great chaos.

drzed

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Quote from: michkima on November 08, 2017, 04:20:36 AM

So I've been reading an article on Coindesk recently, about a new possibility of a 51% attack.

Link here, https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoins-bogeyman-cometh-segwit2x-51-attack/.

From what I understood, it is the ability of a miner with 51% hashing power of the whole network to be able to control bitcoin transactions. They can possibly not confirm a transaction, change a transaction, and other awful effects. This attack almost happened 3 years ago with ghash.io mining pool almost reaching 51% (they were so close, when they reached 50% hashing power).

Now, fast forward to today, this attack is again looking possible because, from what I read, the segwit2x was being pushed by a group of miners, that, if combined, will result to 80% of the hashing power of the world. Well that is assuming the pool members will not leave their respective pools that joined the new york agreement. From my further readings, the people that met for the new york agreement had a close door meeting, hence there is no clear information that discloses what they talked about in there.

What if these people colluded to attack bitcoins using the 51% attack? Do you guys think this is a possibility and will those entities that are pushing for segwit2x attack the network?

You don't even have to have the full 51%. This is a real danger and there are solutions. I am not sure why the community hasn't been more vocal about this.

What if a country decided to launch a 51% attack on Bitcoin? China could do it quite quickly. North Korea? The cost of launching attacks to these countries is nothing.

Having said all this there are many Altcoins that as we speak have over 51% of the hashing power in the hand of one entity. Often mining pools. It's quite common and happened to Litecoin a couple of years back I think.

portstarboard

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Quote from: michkima on November 08, 2017, 04:20:36 AM

So I've been reading an article on Coindesk recently, about a new possibility of a 51% attack.

Link here, https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoins-bogeyman-cometh-segwit2x-51-attack/.

From what I understood, it is the ability of a miner with 51% hashing power of the whole network to be able to control bitcoin transactions. They can possibly not confirm a transaction, change a transaction, and other awful effects. This attack almost happened 3 years ago with ghash.io mining pool almost reaching 51% (they were so close, when they reached 50% hashing power).

Now, fast forward to today, this attack is again looking possible because, from what I read, the segwit2x was being pushed by a group of miners, that, if combined, will result to 80% of the hashing power of the world. Well that is assuming the pool members will not leave their respective pools that joined the new york agreement. From my further readings, the people that met for the new york agreement had a close door meeting, hence there is no clear information that discloses what they talked about in there.

What if these people colluded to attack bitcoins using the 51% attack? Do you guys think this is a possibility and will those entities that are pushing for segwit2x attack the network?

This is a very real possibility but how would they benefit from this? With a crashed bitcoin network their existence would be shortlived, thereafter.

michkima

hero member

Activity: 896

Merit: 514

So I've been reading an article on Coindesk recently, about a new possibility of a 51% attack.

Link here, https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoins-bogeyman-cometh-segwit2x-51-attack/.

From what I understood, it is the ability of a miner with 51% hashing power of the whole network to be able to control bitcoin transactions. They can possibly not confirm a transaction, change a transaction, and other awful effects. This attack almost happened 3 years ago with ghash.io mining pool almost reaching 51% (they were so close, when they reached 50% hashing power).

Now, fast forward to today, this attack is again looking possible because, from what I read, the segwit2x was being pushed by a group of miners, that, if combined, will result to 80% of the hashing power of the world. Well that is assuming the pool members will not leave their respective pools that joined the new york agreement. From my further readings, the people that met for the new york agreement had a close door meeting, hence there is no clear information that discloses what they talked about in there.

What if these people colluded to attack bitcoins using the 51% attack? Do you guys think this is a possibility and will those entities that are pushing for segwit2x attack the network?

Topic: 51% attack, possible with segwith2x? (Read 283 times)