Topic: ~85% of money doesn't exist (Read 539 times)

bitcoin is not gambling

we’re not playing with chances in bitcoin, in gambling there is no way you can outsmart the game it’s all based in luck if you believe in it but investing in bitcoin requires an extensive knowledge about economics and psychological behavior of people to make smart decisions in the market

storing your money in banks will not help your money grow but if you store your money in bitcoin its value will increase as time pass by

Whether money is physical or digital doesn't make a difference in its fundamental nature. Both can be used to buy goods and services, and both can be controlled by governments or other organizations.

However, I think centralization is a major issue. When money is concentrated in the hands of a few people or organizations, power is also concentrated. This can lead to inflation, economic instability, and even political oppression.

That's why, when Bitcoin was created, those who understood its advantages would recognize the importance of its existence. Bitcoin can be a valuable tool for protecting financial freedom and resisting government control.

Let's make this clear, "bitcoin changes millions of people's life", I mean both takers and losers. When we think in depth of what's happening in the market, if you profit then someone just lost their money and goes to you.
I didn't want to disagree, but that how banks work but there's a loophole into it if you just embrace the banking method, but that's only if you're a millionaire or billionaire then you just gotta go with banking to make easy peasy money. I guess this isn't a talk about banking and crypto anymore, it's how you survive your life with what you have in your hands.

I doubt that bitcoin is safe, it never is, I can agree that bitcoin is secure because of its security and technology but saving your money for bitcoin is plain gambling.

Yes ,you are right . Banks are making people stupid. So, I trust on Bitcoin because this changes millions of people's life. Banks take money from public and they invest in multiple assets and then they pay interest to people and after one years they cut a high amount from deposit money. And banks can show bankruptcy when many people wants to withdraw their money. People should think before depositing their money in banks. In my opinion, a step to deposit money in bank is bad set because that is digital time. Everyone can invest in Bitcoin that is safe and he will earn multiple times and he will become multi millionaire . No one will made someone multi millionaire except Bitcoin.

Fractional reserve banking's the reason why the value of fiat is just getting lower and lower because they are allowing this more and more, I don't know why banks keep getting away with that scheme, I guess that's a sign that they have to go and establish a new financial institution and why I don't trust banks and most of the money that I have there is around 20% for expenses that are mostly wants. Those banking people don't suffer from what they do with all this stuff, it's the hardworking people that shoulder the problem.

In fact, we never see the amount of our own money stored in savings, let alone see the physical amount of money stored in bank depositories. When people come to the bitcoin industry it is clear that bitcoin has no physical properties and is impossible to manipulate but it is quite different when it comes to paper currency. Currently they are also developing a CBDC and if they think paper money is a far superior product, why is there a need for a CBDC? The reason for the revolution and wanting to adapt to technology is that the form of paper currency does not have a superior system and is still vulnerable to being abandoned by its user base.

This concern began to emerge after crypto was generally introduced and they tried to adapt to this so that humans would not leave it behind. Even though currently money is still a necessity for people to spend anything, try to think about why they are trying to develop a CBDC. If the history of currency before the existence of paper money can sink then there is nothing impossible that paper currency will also follow suit.

You are right this is still fiat and can still be mined indefinitely but if they make the chain public I think we can see right how much they minted the money and with public accounting data maybe we can see what the purpose of minting too.

But I have doubt that CBDC is going to be transparent to public

Same in the case in our country due to the dollars rate our country rate is going down and down which is quite dangerous for our country. Even our most of the work is in $ but still the country I live didn't have the $ currency it has another currency but I'm also using it after withdrawing the money from different exchanges in which I have and sell them through p2p. Bitcoin would not be accepted by many countries in which my country would be present for the 1st. Although many people from the country have work there and they strongly support the opening of bitcoin in our country but still they were stopped from doing this.

What I have noticed for a few years is the desire of many countries and international entities to get rid of the dominance of the dollar, whose harms have become far greater than its benefits, but without having a clear vision of what the alternative might be, especially since all fiat currencies suffer from problems at different levels that prevent them from compensating the dollar or dispense with part of its services as an international currency. Even Bitcoin itself cannot easily perform this role, as well as being completely rejected due to its decentralized characteristics.

The implementation is going to be interesting. In The Netherlands, we have the "OV chipkaart" for 14 years now. It's kinda like a digital wallet, but only for public transportation. There's a central database, but each chipkaart works stand-alone, I think it works without continuous internet connection. It could also be bought anonymously, so one of the first thing people did, was hack it: add balance without paying for it
That could of course be prevented by connecting to a server for each transaction, but that reduces the use case. Luckily (lol), ECB has only been working on this for many years, and plans to keep researching this for many more years to come.

I can't imagine a central bank and government implementing this in any other way. By the time they're done, the topic title can be changed to "100% of money doesn't exist".

This is what all observers are looking forward to happening, although it may not seem to me like a new version of money without problems. CBDC will either be an encrypted version of the local currency, which will always be in relation to the dollar (and thus an infinite number of them can be produced), or new currencies that I do not know how it is technically possible to use in harmony with each other in international exchanges. Unless the world intends to replace the dollar (as a global currency) with a global CBDC as well.

My opinion is simple: I don't know. It's unlikely for the dollar to last forever as a reserve currency, and I don't think it's likely for governments to accept anything (gold or Bitcoin) that they can't control.
CBDCs are just the next step in total control.

They are taking everything away from us, but they tell us that it is the advancement of technology, they are helping and bringing us more convenience, convenience and eliminating the frills and cumbersome.

Bitcoin is also virtual money that cannot be touched or held with hands, but it really exists, and we can control and store it. No one can take our bitcoins if we don't reveal our seed phrase. Unlike the numbers on the bank account provided to us, they can freeze it, or delete it from our account at any time.

Don't know whether to agree or not because the actual function of currency is used to make purchases not stored in the bank. Money will circulate from the government to the community and from the community back to the bank, this is a simple formula that often occurs and is practiced. However, there are conditions where paper currency is starting to lose the trust of the public because its value cannot be maintained in the long term, so savings methods are now outdated.

I think it can't be that simple because if it is done like this there will be no balance between the money in circulation so there will be an imbalance in the government's financial system. The impact of inflation on monetarization will be much worse because money is recorded by the government in large quantities but its physical form is never balanced. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the case of a state, the government cannot print unlimited amounts of money because it will cause instability in the country.

I would like to know your opinion regarding the dominance of the value of the dollar in the currency market despite the presence of uncontrolled currencies such as Bitcoin. Will global policies succeed in ensuring a smooth transfer of the dollar under American hegemony over the world? Considering that the dollar is a currency, I cannot abandon the roles that I play, as well as it being only an exchange currency.
The crisis into which the global financial exchange system has entered resembles a vicious circle. It is not easy to stop any part from working without the entire system collapsing.

Corporate interests in controlling money are so slippery, what if the supply of money really exists in the middle of society without the demand for activities involving money, how bad it is from the impact caused. Not yet, but if a country's CBDC starts issuing financial intuitions, that's a positive result of going one step further by reducing the raw material for special paper money and waste of damaged money, in fact the government in a country has a legal umbrella and a ministry that oversees the printing of physical or non-physical money, I think there are countries that have implemented compliance for the country.
 If there are banks that print money from a previous time, let's say a service franchise from lending and borrowing, atm rental services or money storage maintenance, this digital transaction is very broad with overall data that banks store for security and convenience.
The benefits of digital money are many in the benefits of people at this time and there is support for local financial applications in each region, but I have not yet found the supply limit in the monthly or annual period, because money is only an agreement of the state bank and the government and money is a medium of exchange not a unit of asset unit. natural if it can be lower and deeper and tens of percent every year, the numbers on physical money are only manipulation not the contents that are worth the exchange rate, that's what makes money feel small.

Making such forum thread means that you probably don't know how fractional reserve banking works.
In fractional reserve banking most of the money exist in the balance sheets of the banks.
It's perfectly normal to have 1.5 trillion euro in physical banknotes and coins and 10 trillion euro in total money supply(this is just a theoretical example). That doesn't mean that those money doesn't exist. There's no way 100% of the money(paper cash and coins) to exist in a physical form. I agree that increasing the money supply only brings higher inflation. Maybe the CBDCs(money that will have date of expiry) will help in increasing the money supply(in the short term) without causing high inflation.

The more I think about this, the crazier the whole concept of "money" is. We went from gold to paper certificates, after which people found out they could no longer exchange their paper certificates to get back their gold. Then we went from paper certificates to a number on a screen, and now people can't even exchange that number on the screen back to the paper certificate! And with all this, people have totally forgotten it used to be gold instead of a number on a screen.

Long story short: this is why I'm in Bitcoin.

What has been happening in Lebanon during recent two years is somewhat funny. The crisis began when the dollar exchange rate on the black market rose by a large percentage compared to the price in banks. This forced all people to request dollar withdrawals from banks. Since the banks, of course, did not have enough dollars, they resorted to the government, which decided that no citizen could withdraw more than $200 or perhaps less (I no longer remember). What did some people do? He bought a toy gun, stormed the bank, and asked to withdraw its entire balance. Imagine that someone commits a robbery to steal his money. Lol

This is the exact reason what convinced me to get into Bitcoin and crypto a decade ago I remember the video shared by my friend to make me understand why Bitcoin came into existence and how our bank balances are nothing but a digital representation and if everyone wants to withdraw money then they will not have it at a go. Sadistic leaders and corrupt bankers are the one who are controlling our finance, increasing our hardship but still have no shame in passing judgement and negative opinion on Bitcoin.

Appearing this kinda post which most of us will not even be aware as people usually thinks FIAT is the safest savings but this post will clear their misconception.

It's not "unaccounted for" it's precisely there in all the figures that you show. It doesn't need to be paper or coin based to exist, the electronic medium is just fine for storing money - it's the very basis that bitcoin uses to exist after all. Banks have worked this way for decades, if not centuries, where they take in deposits (savings) and lend out money based on that amount, to keep the money markets liquid. It only becomes a problem when people build up elaborate and fraudulent trading schemes but they all get figured out eventually. The world seems to function just fine with the current monetary structure and it's been using it for a long time, so it hardly seems broken.

Unfortunately, this is one of the biggest disadvantages of the banking system. There is no exact physical equivalent of the value that occurs due to the evaluation of money through various methods. In fact, more than 10-20% of the money in banks has no physical equivalent. Moreover, although money continues to be printed non-stop today unfortunately the rates are like this. The first information given in economics courses already proves this;

''If all individuals wanted to withdraw their deposits from their bank accounts at the same time, banks wouldn't be able to afford this and would even be pushed to the brink of bankruptcy.''

Cash use is restricted by the government mainly for the purpose of monitoring people's transactions, everyone else that the government has no interest in, especially in the US. Meanwhile, the same money is used by the Cartels in the USA for drug and weapon transactions. In the system, there is a lot of corruption that has been kept hidden. As the same fiat gets back to the government, some are flown to some of these countries to facilitate trade

One could argue fiat money is a scam. All you have is a claim on someone else's future labor, and as we've seen in the past, central banks can reduce that claim as much as they want by diluting the money supply. Also known as "Central Banks go BRRR".
Or, to quote Henry Ford:
It gets even better when you realize the "actual money" has no real value either. And that is exactly the reason why we don't have a gold standard.

In the Netherlands, they've been trying to make "calling for a bank run" illegal since 2010. As far as I can find, it's not illegal yet. More and more banks are now limiting cash withdrawals, and charging customers for it. It's like buying your own money.

With the world heavily relying on technology &  already going digital with everyday that goes by, use of physical money is slowing dying out as its believed to be much safer if you are cashless, no pick pockets etcetera though new threats of going digital loom which includes easy generation of new money by a small clique of corrupt people that have government control.

Otherwise crypto is so much better when it comes to transparency and accountability as every coin is accounted for unlike fiat that as an infinite supply as money is always printed to fill a few individuals pockets.

People are gradually going from cash to cashless and I even like this new ways of life. It might not only be in Europe but almost all part of the world. We are in the era of technology advancement. %85 of money that doesn't exist make the financial system of government to free from inflation. Because when there is more physical cash it reduce the value of money. The only thing that help an epileptic economy is scacity of Money. So hording %85 of money means of reviving the economy. Sometimes scacity of money we will make you not to be free from armed robbers, because when you don't have cash they will have no option rather than to only steal you chain mobile device but tampering your fund because its save in your account. It will save you the time to walk around the ATM to cue-up for cash but can perform multiply transaction at a time. So %85 of money that doesn't exist is a Good thing.

It is an integral part of the modern banking system, I don't know if a government can take another path out there that really implements all the banks under its regulations using a new system. If there is, it is indeed a bold policy and there may be external policy intervention from larger entities (on the scale of international relations).

CBDC mintable indefinitely, and doesn't mean the reserves are physical fiat. 85% in this context does not mean lost, but the reserve is questionable because of the striking difference between bank notes and bank digital money.

Guy do you think such a problem with fiat can be solved by Central Bank Digital Currency I mean I dont think we discussed fiat problem but where is the 85% of the money, the news is everywhere if the CBDC is adopting the crypto system it means will easy to track where is the money goes right?

Most of the money that you see are just numbers pulled out of thin air through the collaboration of the government and the banks. None of those are real, tangible money that can be held physically. That is also the basis of the bulk of the world's economy, and it's surprising that they keep on pulling this off for decades without much of the system imploding on its own frequently. Well, so long as there are people willing to follow orders blindly from the government, and agree that the money they are using is worth a certain something, I guess the system wouldn't collapse.

OP, people now prefer to invest their money instead of keeping it in cash, keeping cash is worthless to me, investing your money into different business is better, any cash in your possession wouldn't have any value until you make investment out it, it is even a risk to hold physical cash in the underdeveloped world, this might attract robbers to your house, the people that helped you be it bank or individuals that helped you to bring the money can give out out information, you may lose this money in a twinkle of an eye, but when you invest in bitcoin or even real estate your investment secured and profit driven.

thats not how it works

fractional reserve system is about not having to have 100% physical money ina  bank vault for security reasons of said bank branch

fractional reserve lending is a different fraction 'pot'. for different purpose. for different function and reason

but lets delve into it
banks do not take 10% of someones bank balance to lend out..

instead imagine a bank had 1000 customers of $7.5k each account ($7.5m)
the bank without touching deposit amounts has a separate facility to allow them to CREATE $750k of "loan" money
without taking any money from their customers..
think of it as not taking money from customers.. but more of a "heres how much we have in custody we will take a 10% risk bet and create new money to the amount of 10% of custody.. "

but they want the loanee to repay that amount so the bank can burn that money(lessen the interest) reopen/unlocked that risk allowance loan facility for the next loan

EG when 100 people ask for $1k ($100k) in a loan.. the banks facility can only make another $650k loans..
so if more loans were made but no money was returned they cant make new loans. as the risk allowance gets down to zero

what you find is. instead of customers deposits being used.. banks sell the already created, but not settled loan agreements to other institutions so that the other institutions pay in and burn that money to unlock the risk allowance.. and the loanee pays the other institution indirectly(im over simplifying)

bank customers balance is not locked, decreased, used to fill a lending pot. its just a risk measure of how much a bank can create a pot and create new money in it to a certain tolerance based on total value under custody

It's because of the partial reserve system that the banking sector uses which helps them generate money from thin air. If a bank gets 100 USD from a user it can keep 10 as a reserve and use 90 to give a loan. The actual figure for this money distribution is backed by $100, but the total amount of money owned by the bank is 190 dollars. So their total wealth increased to 190 dollars, which is backed by only 100 dollars and 90 dollars they just generated by using the partial reserve system. All the banks in the world follow this system. 

Although Bitcoin provides a decentralized alternative, its stability and mass acceptance remain unknown. Furthermore, its price volatility calls into doubt its efficiency as a dependable store of value. Furthermore, questions regarding the concentration of money and power inside the cryptocurrency field remain. While conventional fiat currencies have problems, they also provide stability and are supported by established governments' resources and economic policies. Finding a happy medium between the benefits of decentralized currencies and the stability afforded by established financial systems is a difficult task. It's crucial to critically evaluate both options and consider the broader economic implications before placing too much reliance on any single solution.

Many of the members who wrote here are surprised because most of the money is not printed, but they take it for granted that there is a real risk of extinction of bills and coins if the CBDCs succeed, and I'm almost sure that most of them pay with credit card even the most casual purchase.

If more physical money doesn't exist is because with a 15% seems to be enough (it shouldn't, but...).

Everything is accounted for; that's the role of the central bank. Any money that will be created or destroyed is just like a plus or minus on their books. Maybe the right description is that 85% is not in circulation for use by the majority of the people, as mentioned; it's used by big corporations and banks for their business purposes.

The nominal digital money printed by the bank is used by people everywhere who accept and buy, so without control and utilized by washing assets by people with personal interests, in my country I also talk about the exchange rate is different from every month from what is obtained and I feel that its existence is increasingly absent, I believe that bitcoin is a good effort to recover from the exchange rate privately and in my opinion is not controlled by anyone, if the bitcoin growth rate can increase in the next few months with will enter the halving period, I think the money in a country will be a little saved with people more confident to increase their investment with bitcoin, my hope is that there will be a positive economic impact from the impact of an economy that has been polluted or manipulated by certain parties.

cash and coins is M0

M1 includes M0, plus digital transferable amounts 'in circulation' of basic deposit accounts
M2 includes M0+M1, plus amounts including short terms savings accounts, escrows and other certificates of deposits

M3 and M4 are the more complex measures of the previous plus as you go up the scale things like pension pots, long term savings, share portfolios and bank reserves

The bright side of this is that the awareness of bitcoin and cypto currencies will became more meaningful, it'll affect the adoption more positively. The world will gradually begin to accept the inevitable presence of digital cash, that'll inevitably phase out physical fiat currencies.

As OP has stated, it is easier for government officials and perhaps Banks to scam the economy, all they need do is corroborate with others concerned to add to the digits of money in supply. The excess will go to them, while the ordinary citizens bears the pain of inflation that will follow.

This is why I respect the creator of bitcoin, for estimating when the last bitcoin will be mined in the future. By this there'll be no question of whether excess bitcoin will be minted, more than it's total supply.

I don't really have any problem with printing money as long as the money is well used . . Printing money only becomes a problem when it's used mostly for consumption or for things that are of low quality. The low quality part also affects Bitcoin, while fake bitcoins could be indirectly used to lower the price/value of real Bitcoin.
This is why it's important to have solid law enforcement to prevent such abuse . Without it there is nothing much you can do, even for Bitcoin. Our strong support (which is temporal) for certain fiat currencies like US Dollar means there will be less of such abuse, as eyes are on them, coupled with strong law enforcement. Euro may benefit from this depending on whether the managers and the economy of participating countries continue to share similar value with USD managers & economy.

In my opinion, this is not surprising. The market is provided with money in its various forms as much as it needs. Moreover, cash and non-cash money have equal power in the financial world. In connection with the digitalization of money, the ratio of cash and non-cash money will continue to change towards an increase in the volume of non-cash money and a decrease in the total amount of cash. Money replaces goods that are in civil circulation. And what form this money will take is not significant.

Dont think it matters if its physical or not, the main deal about a linkage or exchangeability to anything physical or real was a bigger break of the standard to money.  Actually printing out notes wasnt that important but not allowing exchange on a set standard does ruin the principle of the money being reliable.
The money is being used, my house debt is unfortunately a real value I owe even if the only sign of it is a balance sheet print off.   Also real is the wages despite appearing purely as a computer print out at best and within days consumed by bills asking for settlement.  I would qualify all of that as real even if not physical exchange.

This is new and exciting information for me. This is truly terrifying. This shows how adept governments are at lying and defrauding people. What a farce.

These shameful numbers remind me of the legal problems that the US government raised against USDT and then against BUSD, claiming that it did not have sufficient coverage in dollars for its crypto assets, and now what will they say about the dollar and the euro? Do they have sufficient coverage with paper money? what a shame!!!

But the positive side is that these huge differences between bank account numbers and paper money herald the imminent end of all fiat.

I heard about this also and I am not surprised. Isn’t this called something like M1 or M2 supply. Basically not the total supply of the currency but the currency out in circulation.

As we get more digital there is less and less demand for cash. And this is why this number will get lower and lower every year. Most people these days pay by credit card or Apple Pay and haven’t touched cash in an entire year pretty much.

Well I guess that is one way to look at it. It is an interesting way to look at it. Lots of times banks ran out of cash so at worst you are part right.

This has been my argument with people for a long time... they will say things like "Bitcoin is just numbers on a Blockchain" and I will agree with them, but what is the numbers in your Bank account and those numbers in the Banks centralized database. 

The major difference between Fiat and Bitcoin is this.... Bitcoin has a fixed number of bitcoins VS Fiat money that are printed like toilet paper by Centralized Banks or Fractional reserve banking practices.

It is not of unknown origin, but it may be generated from unreal money, such as loan interest, bonds, and overdraft printing, all of which lead to an increase in the total money more than the supply, which makes the money supply a lower value because we can spend money without the need for it to be cash. Banking applications and banking services allow all This is done quickly and you can pay instead of having to carry a lot of cash.

Crazy interest rates and printing without a monetary cover make the market more trust-based than a numbers-based economy

Money is debt as what they say. Most of the money that was in here, is most likely coming from the fact that they are literally made from debt and from loans. Didn't we get an expose a few years ago talking about how the total debt in the planet rose up to 10 trillion, a laughable amount compared to the fact that the total money that's in circulation (meaning money that is literally within the system and is being used by the people) is literally just well under 4 trillion dollars.

This is just embarrassing in some degree, but at the same time it's an eye opener to many, gives you an unadulterated perspective as to how money is really being made in this planet.

when you realise paper money is not actually yours, you just get to hold it and use it..  its actually a patented product of the banks. which they could at their own whim take out of circulation or declare certain serial number ranges as not deposit-able/redeemable for new bank notes/currency.. you soon see paper money doesnt have the "property" "ownership" you think it does

yes they have better promises to cater to deposits and honour cash legitimacy of trade. announce with lengthy grace periods to not to stop circulation or redemption easily.. but they can.

cash is not "yours".. yes you bearer it (hold it) but it not your property. that cash can devalue or go out of circulation out of your wishes, desires, control, power.

Printed money is worthless piece of paper. Just because the people in power decides to give it a value, it gets value. The government does not need to print more money to make its value go up or down. They can just decide on their own and as civilians, we can't do anything but to accept it or protest against it. If we go to protest against it, The government in power might fall. They don't want to lose that power and for that they do it in a way so that they can still have the power and manipulate the civilians.

My point is, if the value is gone and it is decided by the government, then not only 85% but the 100% of the money will become useless and there will be no existence. Just because those who are in power are less in numbers, they are afraid to lose their power. That's why they show all these formalities of printing money and other causes for printing money. But in reality they are just manipulating us.

Well the worrying realization is to see how much of the money out there has never actually been printed.
Yes, in theory any bank could send  a request to the mint to print the remaining trillions that have never been printed.

But in reality that has never happened. Which goes to show that banks remain confident in their fractional reserve system. And also, who this system supports most, which is whoever or whatever holds the largest of deposits.

when someone deposits cash into a bank. that bank sends it away to be burned.

the bank needs to keep a daily allowance of upto EU500 per account ready to access (ATM and cashtellers) per day
which they send active requests to the mint to print and deliver to refill atms when people withdraw from the ATM.
this process is not the inflation "print" its just the 'burn one: print one'.. like for like to keep banknotes clean/uptodate.


which when someone withdraws via ATM... the 500 digital amount decreases(on customers viewing side) to pay for the 500cash tomorrow which the person took out of the ATM today for the action of requesting 500.. thus the atm needs to be refilled.

the amount of cash in banks(ATM's/cash tellers) is not the $1.5trill but more closer to $400billlion the other $1.1trillion is in separate businesses cash tills, safes, peoples pockets etc

lets say a bank had (for simplicity) 1 customer
average savings 7400 each

cash in hand 7400. deposits it. 7400 cash burned. 7400 bank account balanced. bank then buys 500 fresh notes to cover that customers ATM withdrawal limit
if the customer takes 500 cash tomorrow the bank buys another 500 to refill ATM for next day
the 500 bank balance isnt exactly deleted, it goes to the mint to buy fresh banknotes at face value to refill the ATM for what went out of the ATM
once printed the mint(treasury) is only allowed to keep a few percent of the amount paid to print notes

banks dont keep citizens full bank savings amount in the bank. they dont need to.. they just hold 5-8% of bank balance for withdrawals

When economies go through crises, rulers resort to printing money without a backing of gold in the hope that the currency will be revived later after the crisis is overcome.  The problem is that the crisis is not overcome and governments resort to printing money again in the same formula.  Almost all central banks do this, and therefore they all suffer from inflation crises.  There are many examples in which this policy led to major problems, such as Venezuela, where the currency completely lost its value.  Currently, Lebanon, Tanzania, and Venezuela are considered among the worst examples that could happen to any emerging economy.

Physical money or money that is available only in numbers as in bank accounts doesn't make any difference at all, this is what the centralization will do and this is what governments hide from people to teach for generations.

BTC may not be perfect like slow transactions but it's completely decentralized and the value is determined by the demand and supply and it became possible due to the limited supply of 21 million bitcoins only no matter what. People who understand this will realize the importance of the existence of bitcoin over the investment/returns perspective.

And that is the reality why the government and its institutions are crazy about printing as they please and peacocks also know that it risks causing deflation and loss of the value of money and BTC is a Bitcoin payment system that is predicted to persist over time as wider acceptance for the cryptocurrency continues to grow.

Unfortunately what op is saying is true! That's how the modern economic system works. Physical money isn't required by the government. Physical money is only required by the common people like you and I. But when it comes to government, they use paper bonds and Bank guarantees. It is a simple piece of paper that guarantees the transfer of value from 1 entity to another. That's how literally it works everywhere in the world.

It is not a matter of big concern because the value of your Fiat money is guaranteed by your government. So it is not required to have 100% of fiat money printed and ready to be used.

Keep in mind that fiat money is actually central banks' IOUs.

By knowing that, in my eyes all those numbers actually don't mean much: a country (or entity) abcd can make as many trillions of xyz coin as they wish as long as it doesn't affect too much the international relations (eg EU countries usually have an agreed max inflation allowed/politically discussed) or the population doesn't start riots because xyz worth today much less than yesterday, hence they actually see they are being stolen from.

All the rest we see is complicated operations to hide from the common plebs that they are trying to "create value" out of thin air... by actually stealing that value from everybody involved in using those IOUs.

And yes, I've chosen the name xyz for the currency to not fool everybody about its "value" or "price". So when one uses a country's currency, he actually (blindly or even unwillingly) must trust that country's central bank that it will not be eroding (stealing) too much of the initial (at the point of acquisition) value of the currency.


Bitcoin, apart of a great tech and a great investment for those who go on that route, it's also something that has opened the eyes of many about what a huge fraud the fiat money is.
Keep that in mind next time... 

I read it a while ago that the total money supply is enough to buy the whole world (I mean everything/every asset and everybody that exists in the world currently)  more than 10 times over. Your post confirms this information. It is out of hand so badly now they don't really know what do to anymore. If they stop printing, people will lose their jobs. If they print more, the inflation will rise even more.

This is more like about being honest but then there is another problem emerges. If "Central Bank A" does its job honestly, then the other cunt "Central Bank B" will print money out of thin air to cover its ass. In the end being honest equals to being stupid in a game where everybody is a crook.

It is a race to the bottom and we are not there yet. What comes after trillion?

Wake me up when the US national debt becomes a quadrillion USD.

People don't bother to hodl cash anymore and I mean individual not government or parastatals. The ease of mobile transactions is making even fiat come in a strong competition with bitcoin. That is a reason deduced for countries that feel the threat of their currency that has suffered inflation and in trying to make situation less critical, there came the creation of digital phase of fiat (CBDC). But hodling bitcoin and it privacy has become more popular than we have thought of, at least you are thinking of more value than reduced value over the years.

That is in perfect congruence with the nature of fiat money, somehow the complete worthlessness of fiat escapes the cognition of the modern human, during no part of their education a citizen is presented with a critical understanding of monetary theory and the banking system,

and most people don't bother to investigate it comprehensively on their own; thus a modern form of slavery where governments can effectively decimate the hard earned labor of all their citizens by printing exponential amounts of money at will persists...

It is a very fragile system run by corrupt leaders.  It is enough for everyone to withdraw their savings on the same date from their bank accounts for the corruption of this system to be discovered.  Here I am talking about any banking system in any country because all fiat currencies are minted without a gold reserve cover or are secured with a currency that is not secured by a gold reserve cover.  It is a hellish, never-ending cycle, and its evolving interconnectedness is what makes it difficult to deal with it as a problem.
This is the biggest factor that supported the prosperity of cryptocurrencies, especially Bitcoin, which is considered the safest among trading assets.

Why do you think there are more and more limits on the use of cash, especially in Europe, and a move towards CBDCs? The fact that you have the possibility of withdrawing physical money from the bank can dismantle the ponzi scheme with bank runs. But as soon as the physical money disappears and only digits remain, they can continue to inflate the scheme as they please, as well as manipulating the use of the money with CBDCs.

That is why I think that in this forum, apart from raising awareness of the use of bitcoin with privacy, we should use cash in our daily lives as much as possible.

I was looking at some statistics about FIAT money, taking the European Union's Euro as an example.

When comparing physical money, i.e., banknotes and coins, bank deposits, a stark difference can be noticed.

physical Euro money:
~1.5 Trillion
Source: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/banknotes/html/index.en.html

All while the Euros in bank accounts peaked at a total of 11.7 trillion, now 10.5 trillion
Source: https://data.ecb.europa.eu/data/datasets/BSI/BSI.M.U2.Y.V.M10.X.1.U2.2300.Z01.E

What does this mean? There's undeniable proof that central banks know with confidence that most of the money in existence isn't destined for usage by real flesh and bone humans.
It's printed specifically to be used by governments, banks and mega corporations, that will never need to withdraw it from an ATM like a real person would.
Central banks don't even have to "print" money anymore if they want to inflate the monetary supply. They can just add more digits to a bank account.
Of course, increasing the monetary supply results in us, individual people, having to face higher prices which means our money is worth less.

Many of bitcoin's detractors will often say that it's held by too few people. Well, look at "actual money" then. 85% of it is completely unaccounted for.
Keep this in mind next time someone says anything about bitcoin.