Topic: A BTC-EVE Online trading service: viable? (Read 1308 times)

RMT is defined as "earn ISK in-game, then get something out-of-game for that (excluding more game time)". You can buy PLEX -> sell for ISK, that's fine. But not the other way around.

I don't know if you heard about the "Unholy Rage" operation. Basically CCP decided it's time to kill RMT, jumped around and banned thousands of accounts, and set up many automated systems to detect and ban RMT. Essentially, if you trade something with someone you're not connected with (ie haven't talked to / are not in the same corp / haven't talked in local), you're going to get flagged.

This is the dev blog about it.


This is a deeper explanation into why RMT is a bad idea.

There's also the whole legal "if you let people earn real money in-game, you're a money transfer business, enjoy your AML." Entropia Universe had to jump through massive hoops for that, and I think they eventually discontinued it.

Thanks for the responses, guys.


I figured there had to be at least one other person out there who thought it'd be an interesting idea. I'm not a real programmer; I do know HTML, CSS and PHP, though.


Perhaps I'm missing something, but I have no idea how they could shut down such an operation as outlined above. CCP would have to break into the site and fetch the names of all the characters who have purchased ISK in order to crack down on players (that, or sue the entity, which I've never heard of CCP even contemplating; Blizzard has). When we're talking about small amounts of ISK (single-digit billions), CCP isn't nearly as successful with in-game detection as they'd like to have people believe. I've purchased ISK dozens of times and never have had an account banned. ISKBank and ISKspot have been in business for years - selling god knows how many billions per day and buying it in-game - and haven't been shut down.


I'd be interested in hearing more about this transaction reversal, but I think more or less what I said above would apply. I've never had an account banned for RMT and have never had any transaction reversed. Wouldn't they just ban both characters or all accounts involved if it were discovered? The likelihood of detection (compared to buying from a big-name ISK reseller) would be minuscule; big-time sellers aren't going to want to mess around if they can only sell a couple billion ISK at a time, which would leave it as a hub for small-time buyers and sellers to connect. I really doubt CCP bats an eye when a billion changes hands.


They already do it, more or less. You can buy a PLEX, which can be used to add one month's worth of game time to your account ($19.99). The reason it costs more than a one-month subscription ($14.99) is because you can sell that item in-game for around 600,000,000 ISK right now. It's not economical when it comes to RMT from non-sanctioned sources, but for those who are worried, it's a viable option for buying ISK. CCP/EVE is in effect engaging in RMT.


Any information on that? I'll admit I haven't looked into this side of things. I just assumed that if no fiat was involved, there wouldn't be any real regulation.

No it's not the same of course but the trading is the only reason to play for me in both.

I hope you are not comparing Eve to WoW.

They would likely have to operate under addition laws, because being able to go both ways would make them an exchange.

I wonder what the legality of real money trading is. Instead of banning it CCP could earn a commission of it. Or are there laws to prevent them from doing so?

I was thinking about it few years ago but I don't play video games. I'm only interested in making money through trading like in WoW.

Except bug exploitation and RMT.

bitterisk wants to start RMT, and the ISK transactions will be reversed in a few months time (as always happens when an RMT gets discovered).

Here's a nice overview of some of the biggest scams and thefts:

http://www.nowgamer.com/mmo-worlds/1401770/eve_onlines_greatest_moments_its_a_cruel_world_out_there.html

Nothing is illegal in the EVE universe BTW.

Eve has enough scams.

Isn't selling ISK against the terms of service? It seems like if this gained any traction, you would get shut down pretty quickly.

Oh my god, I can't believe I'm reading that right now. Just yesterday while playing EVE I had the exact same thought. I'm doing full time mining and selling the minerals for ISK. Getting some BTC out of it would be great. A service like that is a very good idea.

Do you have any programming skills? On my part I could do some HTML/CSS, PHP and right now I'm learning C.

Hi everyone,

First-time poster here, but a long-time lurker and BTC enthusiast. I would like to hear others' thoughts, criticisms and input on what I'm about to outline. I know there are many here who have a better idea of the mechanics that such an idea would require/entail, so that's mainly my objective here: to start a discussion, if it is in fact viable. It's a bit long, so apologies in advance.

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As of late, I've become interested in new ways that Bitcoin commerce can be facilitated in a variety of niches that currently are either under-served or in which its presence is completely void. It seems that the more areas in which Bitcoin commerce becomes commonplace, the more rapidly the adoption of Bitcoin will occur by the masses. Perhaps some disagree, but that seems like the long-term key to sustainability and in the short-term, those juicy bubbles that some enjoy. One idea that just won't leave me alone is the idea of a platform of sorts that can facilitate trade between BTC and the in-game currency of EVE Online (ISK).

Why EVE specifically? There seems to be a fair amount of overlap between those who enjoy EVE and those who use BTC. It seems as if there is even more cross-adoption between these two than there is between BTC and MMORPGs in general.

I've seen the occasional posting from an EVE player on here and other forums who wants to trade his or her ISK for BTC. Usually, these postings only last a short while before the user runs out of ISK to sell, and the listing/thread is spent. This implies that there is some demand for the pair, but to my knowledge, there is no consistent trading service that allows users to trade between these two currencies.

Exchanges like VirWox are excellent examples of markets in this industry that can be highly successful, but EVE ISK doesn't necessarily have the same malleability as SLL. When you add to the fact that RMT (Real Money Trading) via EVE Online currency is against game policy (and the fact that services like PayPal aren't going to let a new entity get away with the same things that VirWox does these days), the dynamic becomes quite different.

Thinking about how ISK & BTC can be traded given the limitations of ISK, these were some points I considered for the creation of a pretty simple trading service:

1. No acceptance of fiat in such a service seems ideal, at least in the short-term; it only complicates matters vis a vis record keeping/accounting, and could result in regulatory issues, depending. It also dramatically increases the need for additional security measures.

2. Buyers and sellers – particularly buyers of ISK - would need incentive to part with their BTC in exchange for ISK. Someone such as myself wouldn't need much coercion, but I can sympathize with the viewpoints of other EVE players who hold BTC. The most straightforward way seems to be to provide better prices on ISK for both buyers and sellers. The margin between what an average EVE player can sell his or her ISK for to a reseller and what that reseller sells ISK for to the general public is massive; fixed prices can be established that substantially reduce costs to ISK buyers and boost earnings for ISK sellers. The notion of not providing your financial information to a reseller of in-game currency – most of which are based in countries where you may not feel comfortable transmitting any financial information – would reinforce this narrative.

3. Buy/sell prices of ISK could be fixed in order to make it as simple/secure as possible. It doesn't seem like the type of exchanges people are used to when it comes to cryptocurrency trading would be the best path for purchasing or selling ISK with BTC, for a number of reasons. The most important ones, however, relate to the amount of labor and finances that go into building a custom exchange, and the fact that any large reserves of customers' currencies on-hand will make the platform an automatic target for undesirables (which is addressed directly below). With this being a relatively niche concept, I'm not convinced that a huge expenditure of time or money could be justified to create it, either. A very simple trading service could be constructed with fixed prices that pair buyers and sellers in the order that their orders were placed.

4. The service could choose to only hold funds in an escrow-like fashion. Rather than having users deposit their ISK in-game with an corporation linked to the service and then crediting users with ISK on an exchange (and likewise/obviously, holding BTC at the same time), it makes more sense to act as a simple intermediary in the transaction with the BTC. Once a ISK buyer and ISK seller are matched, the buyer then transmits BTC to an address associated with the trading service. EVE Online API keys can be configured to provide the necessary in-game confirmations from buyer/seller, which then would result in the BTC being transferred from the trading service address to the ISK seller.

5. Only one denomination (or perhaps a few) of ISK could be offered. All of the aforementioned elements make this sound more like a store than an exchange, and I suppose this element would reinforce that premise. Especially in the beginning, small amounts of ISK (in denominations of 1 billion, 2 billion, etc) would be offered to streamline the matching of buyers and sellers. It would also discourage larger/career ISK sellers from saturating the trading service. By keeping trade between more casual ISK buyers and sellers, the likelihood of RMT detection by EVE Online/CCP would be markedly decreased.

6. A balance of anonymity, security and reliability. With all of the above considered, the necessary details from users and the responsibilities on behalf of the service itself would make these transactions relatively anonymous, hands-off and secure, and conceivably, the described nature of this trading service could serve as a deterrent to various attacks. Users would only need to provide an email address, a BTC address to indicate where the BTC originated or is to be sent after completion, as well as limited API information from EVE that provides access for in-game transaction verification. Because none of this information is sensitive when handled properly and because the only BTC in the hands of the trading service at any given time are the amounts of pending transactions, there is very little incentive for individuals to attack the service for a few lousy API keys to a game or a small amount of BTC. In addition to this, the trading service wouldn't be in possession of any ISK at any time, which means no surprise in-game suspensions and loss of users' ISK.

And of course, some drawbacks:

1. It would most likely take longer to purchase ISK via a BTC trading service than through a traditional reseller. With a simple trading service, the overall process would be subjected to the whims of three entities: the buyer, the seller and the trading service. If you are pairing users on a first-come, first-serve basis, then the buyer of ISK has to act in order to initiate the process. Once the BTC are confirmed as deposited with the trading service, the buyer will then be given a series of steps to complete in-game, followed by the seller responding accordingly. There are multiple points at which either the buyer or seller could be asleep, AFK, or simply decide not to follow-through with the transaction. I recall one instance where my ISK purchase via credit card never came through and it took a week to get a refund, so even the current solution isn't exactly always speedy.

2. The pairing of buyers and sellers - particularly in the beginning - could prove to be difficult. This is perhaps the biggest reason why pre-defined amounts of ISK would be needed, as a buyer and seller may have to wait hours or even days before a match is found. This could lead to situations where one party has since "moved on" and failed to cancel the transaction with the trading service, generating false positives in terms of matches. This leads to unsatisfied experiences, which leads to bad PR, etc. Something more significant than a captcha would probably be needed to stop trolling and abuse.

3. Trust, but less is required as outlined above than for most exchanges.

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As I said above, I've left out some of the finer details because this is already a long post as-is. If you managed to get this far, then I'd like to know what you think of the premise, whether or not (as an EVE player & BTC user) you'd buy ISK with BTC, what else might be missing/wrong, etc.