Topic: A crash Brexit looms over the UK (Read 335 times)

That reads perfectly as an assessment of Boris Johnson.

Weirdly I do agree with you that we are governed by an unaccountable elite who are only in it for themselves and give no thought to national interest or indeed human dignity. In the UK this is manifested as the Conservative party.
The EU with its rules and institutions is right-wing compared with Jeremy Corbyn's Labour, and left-wing compared with Boris Johnson's Tories.
I am in favour of remaining in the EU partly because of the trade deal thing that I've already covered elsewhere, but more importantly because although EU laws aren't perfect, they do provide important protections against a billionaire Tory party that is hell-bent on dismantling the state. The Tories - the elites - hate any brake on their power. If they get their way and leave the EU, the Tory government will begin to remove workers' rights, push for further privitisation of the NHS, and lower standards and regulations across the board. They'll start this quicker than you can say "chlorinated chicken".

The elites need to be held in check. Leaving the EU is not the way to do this, it just makes things worse.

Hear hear. The New York Times, CNN and The Daily Mirror are my most trusted sources: if you read the exact opposite of what they write, they're always right. 100% success rating guaranteed.

Was that a joke post? He has done more than anyone to destroy the traditions of one of the oldest parliamentary systems in the world, and also he has attempted to destroy democracy here. And it is all all to help his own fortunes, and those of his Globalist masters and associates.

I hope that his departure will lead to my country being given back to the people, but I doubt if we can get rid of the controllers in the Anglophone empire.

He's standing down tomorrow apparently ( https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/john-bercow-will-stand-down-as-commons-speaker-tomorrow-despite-speculation-he-might-stay-on-a4274161.html ).
Shame, I liked him. Often the only person keeping the idiot MPs in line. One of the few Tories with morals and a conscience.

John Bercow is the MP for Buckinghamshire. I don't understand why his constituents have him removed, and then he would no longer be able to act as speaker. No person other than the rembrancer ( the representative for the City of London, which is now a separate country) is allowed into the parliamentary chamber, unless he has been voted in as a member of parliament.

agree. also
cheddar cheese is actually cheddar cheese from cheddar. not some replicant only branded cheddar like yanks and euros sell

things like potatos.. in england we dont actually get majority of our spuds from ireland they come from egypt. so news of a 'potato famine' is just a joke.

if it becomes too expensive to buy things from europe, great we will make our own again. or get them elsewhere, thus restart industry=more jobs
woo hoo volkswagons too expensive, great we will open our own ford/nissan factories(avoiding euro cars) and also bring back old brands like morris minors. austin. heck even expand the ariel atom to be more popular
we will then put up the price of Jaguar Cars, MINI Cooper, Aston Martin, Rolls-Royce, Land Rover, Bentley Motors Limited
when europe wants to buy them. they can afford it

funny part is britain is not an american state, not an indian state, not an asian state nor a african state or a south american state, yet we continue to de trade with those regions. so no matter what the euro deal is or isnt we will continue.

UK's finance markets and tax/customs office can even soften the blow of euro customs tarrif very easily. by just making europe pay extra for a pound.
EG if £1 product is e1.20(no tarriff) but then euro want to implement a 10% tarriff. britain can just start making europe only get
£1 for thier new $1.32

theres many many thing that can be done. many people dont realise EU actually relis on us more because of our commonwealth ties. yp the EU will end up heving to make new negociations with separate countries because some of the deals before were done via the cmmonwealth treaty being extended to euro to certain conditional trades

It looks as if disaster may be looming. There seems to be a shift away from the very beneficial true Brexit, and towards some deceitful remain variant. Boris Johnson seems to be following in the footsteps of the treasonous Theresa May, but what do you expect from an Eton/Oxford banker.

That is a common tactic, yes, but I think in the UK there is more to it. This can be traced back to David Cameron becoming PM. What happened was the Lib Dems secured a big chunk of the vote in the election (by positioning themselves as more left-wing than Labour), which meant that Labour or the Conservatives could only govern as part of a coalition with the Lib Dems. So the Lib Dems basically decided which party would form the government. They chose to join up with Cameron and the Conservatives, and their price for doing so was that a referendum be held for the Alternative Vote system, a sort of Proportional-Representation-Lite. Cameron gladly agreed, with a simple strategy that as soon as the referendum got started he would campaign vigorously against it - and his plan worked perfectly. Only Oxford and Cambridge I think (obvious high IQ hot-spots) voted in favour, almost all of the rest of the country voted against, and AV lost by a landslide.

Come the next election, the Conservatives faced a threat from UKIP, the party that wanted to leave the EU. So Cameron thought he'd just do the same trick again. He'd siphon off the UKIP vote by promising the Conservatives would have a Brexit referendum, then he'd campaign vigorously against leaving the EU, and win, as he did with AV.

Except he fucked up, lost, and then quit rather than face the consequences.

It really irritates me that the Lib Dems now position themselves as being the party of Remain, when these are the bastards who put Cameron in power and caused the leave vote in the first place. I'm not a fan of the Tories - but at least they are fairly honest about being evil. The Lib Dems shift about like crazy and have no policies or beliefs beyond whatever they think will get them some votes.

The Brexit referendum was only held so the politicians would not be held responsible for the fallout.

They manipulated the public well to vote for a disastrous outcome that they can blame squarely on those that voted for it.

It is a tactic used by Governments. Hold a referendum that will get the outcome that they desire. If it doesn't get the desired outcome then they just do the same thing in a different way. Revaluation and crashing of the pound will burst the bubble and produce new cheap labor from those blue collar workers desperate for a job.

Uncertainty and devaluation create new opportunities for the ultra rich to plunder and enslave.

We had Cromwell, Guy Fawkes and a few others.

Agree 100%. Eton then Oxbridge then government, it's a well-trodden path. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson from the moment he was born probably had a decent percentage chance of becoming prime minister, utterly independent of whatever intelligence or aptitude he might or might not have. Inequality of opportunity is a terrible thing, and is only growing. I often wonder if the UK might be better if we'd had a French-style revolution.

Agreed that democracy requires an electorate with sufficient education and knowledge. I do also think that rights come with attendant responsibilities - if you are given the right to vote, then it's incumbent on you as a voter to ensure that you are as well-informed as possible, so that you can make a responsible decision. Far too many people here (and I daresay in other countries, too) don't make the effort, and have opinions that are simply regurgitated newspaper headlines.

I think this is caused primarily by two things: Firstly our society has advanced sufficiently that (almost) everyone has shelter, food, safety and healthcare - which reduces interest in politics for many people. You are far more likely to feel politically motivated if your survival or well-being is at stake. Obviously it's a good thing that we have progressed to this level, but it's a shame that it impacts negatively on the democratic process. Second point then is that those with a reduced interest are more likely to respond to emotive clickbait and tabloid headlines, which makes them easy to manipulate by the powers that be. Someone who is disengaged is not going to be swayed by an in-depth study of trade deals.

Elections are never truly democratic. You can only vote for candidates who are selected by a ruling elite. This is true for both America and the UK. The EU is slightly different, the elected parliament has no real control, and all the major policy decisions are made by a secret unelected elite. There is also massive control over a country by groups who are not elected. These include judges, civil servants, teachers, and owners of the mass media. Almost all of the members of parliament in the UK are bankers, lawyers and/or politicians, and are products of the Eton/Oxford elite.  Just as an aside, The Eton/Oxford elite has massive control over the US, for example Clinton was a Rhodes scholar at Oxford.

One of the problems with referenda is their binary nature. The Brexit vote was very clear - leave or remain, and the membership articles are very specific about the method of leaving. On submission of the resignation notice, you leave, and there should be a 2 year period to negotiate trade agreements. This period was squandered by Theresa May ( an Oxford banking remainer ), who attempted to reverse the results of the referendum. The mass media has tried to push the concept of shades of Brexit, but there are no such things, Brexit is a very specific and legally defined operation, and it was described clearly at the time of the referendum. Everything else that has been discussed represents various shades of remain. The so called "cliff edge" represents a refusal to utilise the 2 year withdrawal period for the benefit of the EU and the UK, and is not the result of the Brexit decision directly.

Voters in the UK, the US and Europe should be grateful for Brexit, as it is revealing the depth of control exercised by the Anglophone empire that morphed out of the old British Empire. Quiet reflection of the real international news will reveal the difficulties that Donald Trump has in combating the vice like grip it has on Washington, and the same is true of the control the City of London has over Westminster.

The bottom line is that Democracy requires a high average level of education, knowledge of the basics of economy and political awareness. I believe the UK has failed to provide that for an wide population base.

No, I'm saying pretty much the opposite of that. I'm advocating government by a parliament of elected representatives - it's vital that the people in power are held accountable for their decisions. All I'm saying is that when an important decision has to be made, it might be a good idea if the decision is made by the people who have been elected to do so, rather than delegating it to people who don't understand what they're voting for. 

So basically you are arguing that if you need to rule a country you just have to order a Dictator or an Absolute Monarch.... Just so you know, the Illustrated Despotism went away a few centuries ago...

Jet, the agricultural sector in the UK is less than 1% of the GDP, the manufacturing sector less than 25% of the GDP.... you seem to ignore who is really "putting the food on UK's table".

The Brexit situation just highlights for me that referenda referendums plebiscites are in general not a good idea.

We had a roughly 50-50 split between Leave and Remain, and many (arguably most) voters didn't have a f***ing clue what they were voting for. Yes we have fatalist Remainers who think the economy will collapse completely when we leave, but we also have Leavers who are outraged that the UK is still full of people from India and Pakistan - which aren't even in the EU! FFS. If you are a racist xenophobe who hates people with a different skin colour, you're not going reduce immigrants from those countries by putting a ban on white Europeans coming in.

The referendum has highlighted that people are idiots. The reason we have elected MPs is so that they can make informed decisions for us, not so they can just delegate anything of importance to the knuckle-dragging half-wits on the street. If I want someone to do some dentistry on me, I'll get a dentist to do it. If I want to move house I'll hire a conveyancer. If there is a political decision to be made that has profound importance for the future of the country, I want our MPs to make it, not the first random slack-jawed yokel who shuffles out of McDonalds.

Second problem with referenda is that these things force people to take sides. If the politicians decided, then probably the vast majority of the population wouldn't feel strongly about it one way or another. With a popular vote the opposite is true, you force people to take sides against one another, with the result that they dig in, establish battle-lines, become entrenched, and will hold their position no matter what comes against them, be it opponents, objective facts, context, whatever.

Hopefully we can keep the pound low, and take advantage of it to boost manufacturing and agriculture.

There are some interesting developments at the moment. The Anglosphere has been kept safe for many years mainly  as a result of the Five Eyes intelligence alliance ( United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the United States ). Theresa May's deal would have taken us out of that, and made us subservient to the EU intelligence agency that they are creating. They want our satellite technology amongst other things, and this is to try to repair the failed Galileo system that was partly funded by us. In return, they have said that we will not be able to access the data. I understand that we have plans to use our expertise to develop our own system.

In fact the EU seems to be trying to distance itself from the Anglosphere, and they have never really accepted English as an EU language. I suspect that the Five Eyes alliance will develop into a trading partnership, although I have not seen anyone else suggest this.

There are good opportunities in UKs companies stocks now.

Either way this is good for Bitcoin.. On the subject of the "no plane will fly, no fish will be eaten"..etc this is what the UK could very well do if things don't go exactly their way. It's in the realm of possibility but unlikely - media will always go for the extreme.

It'll have been a very well orchestrated dump & pump, watch values soar after..

Europe is a very diverse continent, and one shouldn't forget that Russia is a country that is within the geographic definition of Europe. The European Union was a flawed concept from the very beginning, and it was obvious to all that such diversity didn't lend itself to a single currency or a common economic or political policy. One should also remember that before the UK was sucked into the EU by political deceit, and not by any electoral agreement, the UK was heavily invested in various projects around the world. Following the predations of the EU. it is now reduced to begging other countries for investment.

I'm not completely sure on this but historically, doesn't the majority of money into London come from outside of Europe? From looking at the last financial crash, a $700 billion insurance company which served credit default insurance to the UK and US (and a few of the US banks went bankrupt because of it).

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The depreciation in the value of sterling i'd agree is probably due to more to the uncertaincy over brexit and not a direct impact. There were also articles scaring people out of investing into the UK by adding clickbait headlines of "the UK will go into recession if they vote to leave the EU" (which didn't happen but probably scared people from investing anywhere near the country after the vote had been declared). And if you look at the data, we were already in a downtrend to start with. In 2013 the pound was at $1.70, in 2015 it had reached $1.50, brexit may have amplified things but I'm not sure it provided the activation needed.
I think we should all at least be in favour of keeping healthy diploamtic relationships with the rest of the world and helpiing the european governments (where necessary) in security and privacy protections (as was done with GDPR).

Europe is a lot different from the USA, I don't think the continent can be joined into one huge supercountry, and if it can, I don't think it benefits from the UK being a part of it.

As I see it, and I was thinking about this before, the biggest issue we have was probably the Queen not assessing if the UK government had a clear strategy for leaving the EU (because it clearly didn't) she has successfully blocked things parliament wanted to put through in the past (such as the ability for them to declare war) so I don't see why they wouldn't have put more scrutiny into the details of what was going to happen once article 50 was triggered.

The UK is still pretty strong as a country and as one of the "financial capitals" and a place where large quantities of investments are placed into housing... 

Does not change the argument at all.



Update on that https://fullfact.org/economy/uk-economic-growth-higher-europe/


BTW, part of the problems in Europe are the uncertainty created by Brexit. Once that clears out this different will be even larger, at least for several years.

You need to differentiate between Greater London, and the City of London - they are effectively in two different countries. Also remember that the UK is a dual currency nation - both Sterling and the Euro are used for trading and financial transactions.

In my opinion, the demise of Thomas Cook was the result of a number of factors other than Brexit. Excessive debt reducing retail spending is probably the greatest of these. Bad management is another, and the £43 million fat car payments just before the crash probably didn't help. It is fashionable to blame everything onto Brexit, but the reality is that since the referendum, Britain has been growing at a faster pace than the EU

That is a respectable opinion, wrong as it maybe. As of now, a weaker pound is the last resource of a fail in productivity. Long term... who knows.

However, there is a question that Brexiters just cannot seem to answer: What do we do with the Good Friday Agreements and when. This is not "opinion" nor FUD, this is an international treaty that needs to be respected.


 
Ask Thomas Cook how they liked a weaker pound and how good is it for the economy.

London effectively subsidizes the rest of the UK, so all those that think that harming the financial sector is going to make a stronger country will have their hands full posting denial arguments. The financial industry thrives on certainty, effective government and stable frameworks. The weakness in the pound is a reflection of a loss in competiveness because certainty is a competitive advantage for UKs financial sector.

The Brexit process has yet to be started. Three years ago the Deep State remainer Theresa May dedicated herself to reversing the result of the referendum. The exit procedure called for a two year trade negotiating interval following the exit. These negotiations have never been started by the government, and this is why we have the so called " cliff edge ", it isn't the Brexit itself that will cause the problems to the UK. Obviously the loss of the British cash cow will cause problems for the EU. It is my opinion that the City of London has given up on the EU, and is prepared to shove it under a bus, and they are now working on an expanded British Commonwealth which will include the US. This was the dream of Cecil Rhodes, and several UK prime ministers have been working towards this.

The drop in Sterling is good news for the UK. China deliberately kept the value of the Renminbi low by buying US and other world assets, and the sanctions on Russia which cause the devaluation of the Ruble, help in its recent economic growth. Trump has stated that the US dollar is over valued, and one of the reasons for the creation of the Euro was to avoid the revaluation of the German currency. Don't believe all of the FUD in the mass media, Britain will be a much stronger country once it has escaped the overt controls of the EU. Now we need to see if it can escape from the control of the City of London ( the unelected EU bosses ).

I think the pounds really has gone down in value to the US$ as many forex traders are selling off the pounds because of the uncertainty. The brexit that started about two years ago has seen the exit of Theresa May recently and Boris now in the paddle but price of pounds has not stopped to fall. I don't know how this is going to reflect in the London economy.

I do not know where you look for reliable information, but if you take a look at the value of the pound (a fact, not an opinion) you may start to understand the general direction of travel. This does not look anything like what was promised and the people should have a say.

I do not know either where you read about the rest of the stuff and I would rather not comment on your culinary preferences, probably damaged beyond any hope of repair by a continuous abuse of full English breakfasts, epically ingested in support of UK beans producers.

I took the bait, and your comment is complete rubbish.

Don't forgert that London is the major financial centre of the world ( ahead of New York ) and I believe that 85% of the EU derivatives trade passes through London, and the interest rates are based on LIBOR. It's no wonder that the EU is in a panic. With the promise of a clean exit from the EU, the UK economy is growing at a faster rate than the moribund EU. It's really a load of tosh though, because the Anglophone empire that grew out of the old British Empire now controls Washington, Westminster and the EU.

When we voted to leave, we were told of the conditions, and that it would be a separation with temporary continuity for two years whilst new treaties were arranged. None of this happened, and the treasonous May did everything she could to reverse the results of the referendum, and continued to feed the EU money sink.

Just read the rubbish that the mass media prints, and you will realise how stupid remainers are

- No planes will fly after Brexit - Britain has the largest air space in the EU. If they try to restrict UK air traffic. then it will cost EU air lines millions to fly around British air space.

- We won't be able to buy fish. British waters are fished by European fishermen, and we only have a small fishing fleet after the EU forced us to burn our boats following membership. We will have loads of fish if we just fish our own waters, and stop buying our fish from the Europeans.

- Farmers won't be able to sell their meat, and we won't be able to buy meat in the supermarkets. The obvious solution is for us to eat our own meat. Britain has higher food standards than the EU, and this is why the meat is exported, and the gullible British public buy inferior EU products through European supermarket chains like Lidl and Aldi.

There are loads more topics like this, such as the fact that we were forced to burn out lovely traditional apple trees, and now the supermarkets push French pap instead of traditional Cox and Bramley apples. I'm lucky as I've just been given a load of free "Sops in Wine" apples by a Somerset farmer. I'm also buying Somerset brie rather than French brie. It's about the same price, and far better than the tasteless volume produced stuff tht we import.

Shortages, hours of queues at customs, economic uncertainty, jobs going elsewere... are you sure this is what the British voted for?
(I am aware this is a clickbait for Jetcash  )