A few general questions about addresses and wallets

odolvlobo

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Quote from: junghansmega on November 19, 2017, 01:11:34 PM

I see, so transaction fee wise multiple keys/inputs are a non-issue.

But doesn't this cause still dificulties when you for instance want to - for instance - switch wallets?
I imagine the amount of keys in your wallet will go up constantly (if you have an additional pair everytime you receive coins). And then, when you maybe want to switch wallets you'd have to export all those keypairs and import them to your new wallet. Unless the two wallets (from different developers) use the same data interchange notation (which is unikely imho) youre looking at a lot of effort up to the point where you are effectively locked into a wallet.

A private key is 32 bytes long. A typical MP3 is 100,000 times as big. I don't think there would be a problem moving private keys to a new wallet. Besides, most wallets now don't even store the private keys. They just store the seed.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: junghansmega on November 19, 2017, 01:02:36 PM

Quote from: odolvlobo on November 19, 2017, 01:45:05 AM

Quote from: dothebeats on November 18, 2017, 10:30:41 AM

For questions 1 and 2, you can generate multiple addresses with only a single private key, these are called deterministic wallets. It can also be recovered using randomly-generated passphrases that acts as a password.

You are confusing a private key with a seed. They are not the same. A wallet uses its seed to generate private keys.
Also, the "randomly-generated passphrase" is not a password. It is a seed. You can use a password to encrypt your seed.

What does a seed look like?
I expeimented with jaxx and came across a seemingly ranom collection of 12 words having something to do with backups.
Is this the seed?

Yes. Seeds are typically 12 - 24 random words (from a list). Some wallets call the seed a "recovery phrase" because it can be used to re-create a wallet.

junghansmega

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on November 18, 2017, 06:06:21 PM

Quote from: junghansmega on November 18, 2017, 09:38:37 AM

I understand that wallets are essentially like keyrings (storing/managing/possibly even generating keys).
Ive seen that they can (like Exodus' "Receive" button) generate new bitcoin adresses (which is in my mind roughly equivalent to a public key).

1)
Does this mean they generate a completely new keypair (including private) for each time you "receive"?
Or is it (not sure if this is possible) a new address which is linked to an existing private key?

usually the key pair has already been "generated" because most wallets use hierarchical deterministic seeds now. but the wallet UI won't necessarily show a new address until you request it.

the new address is not linked to any previously generated private key. with HD wallets, all key pairs are derived from a single seed, though. sometimes people confuse the "seed" (which all key pairs are derived from) with "private keys" (from each key pair).

Quote from: junghansmega on November 18, 2017, 09:38:37 AM

2)
If it was a new keypair each time and you woud be receiving lots of transactions you'd end up with hundreds of keypairs/addresses with small amounts of coins "in" them.
Would this not make sending coins an insanely difficult task or at least -transaction fee wise- very expensive (you'd have to make hundreds of small transactions)?

addresses/public keys do not matter at all in this respect. every output you receive is an output, no matter what address it is sent to. sending outputs to the same address doesn't change anything. 3 outputs in 1 address is no different from 3 outputs in 3 addresses, from a transaction fee standpoint.

I see, so transaction fee wise multiple keys/inputs are a non-issue.

But doesn't this cause still dificulties when you for instance want to - for instance - switch wallets?
I imagine the amount of keys in your wallet will go up constantly (if you have an additional pair everytime you receive coins). And then, when you maybe want to switch wallets you'd have to export all those keypairs and import them to your new wallet. Unless the two wallets (from different developers) use the same data interchange notation (which is unikely imho) youre looking at a lot of effort up to the point where you are effectively locked into a wallet.

junghansmega

newbie

Activity: 10

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Quote from: odolvlobo on November 19, 2017, 01:45:05 AM

Quote from: dothebeats on November 18, 2017, 10:30:41 AM

For questions 1 and 2, you can generate multiple addresses with only a single private key, these are called deterministic wallets. It can also be recovered using randomly-generated passphrases that acts as a password.

You are confusing a private key with a seed. They are not the same. A wallet uses its seed to generate private keys.

Also, the "randomly-generated passphrase" is not a password. It is a seed. You can use a password to encrypt your seed.

What does a seed look like?
I expeimented with jaxx and came across a seemingly ranom collection of 12 words having something to do with backups.
Is this the seed?

Alartonicus

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Activity: 87

Merit: 10

Quote from: BivanF on November 19, 2017, 06:06:31 AM

maybe not the good place to ask but i got this question :

if i create a bitcoincore wallet and i close it before it is synchronized , can i still send bitcoin to that un-synchronized adress , or did i make a mistake?

There is no error. You can send bitcoins to a non-synchronized wallet. You can send bitcoins even to a non-existent wallet. This is how crypto currencies are burnt
After the synchronization is completed, you will see your Bitcoins on the balance sheet and be able to spend them

P.S. It is better to create a new topic for a particular issue

Velkro

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Quote from: junghansmega on November 18, 2017, 09:38:37 AM

3)
I noticed the transaction fees with the wallets I looked at are quite high. Is there a software wallet (not mobile only though - I dont trust smartphones Wink

) which lets you actually chose what you are willing to pay? (I totally don't care if my transaction takes a few days to get picked by a miner and processed.)

Thanks in advance!

Someone sayed already, electrum have very good fee system. you can adjust it as you like, very easy to do so.

Sadly not many wallets allow easy to setup fee's, even without security measures like blockchain.info did. Absolutely no protection against mistakes like sending fee with fee as real amount people wanted transfered.
So people sent 0.01 btc with 5 BTC fee etc.

BivanF

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maybe not the good place to ask but i got this question :

if i create a bitcoincore wallet and i close it before it is synchronized , can i still send bitcoin to that un-synchronized adress , or did i make a mistake?

odolvlobo

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Activity: 4466

Merit: 3391

Quote from: dothebeats on November 18, 2017, 10:30:41 AM

For questions 1 and 2, you can generate multiple addresses with only a single private key, these are called deterministic wallets. It can also be recovered using randomly-generated passphrases that acts as a password.

You are confusing a private key with a seed. They are not the same. A wallet uses its seed to generate private keys.

Also, the "randomly-generated passphrase" is not a password. It is a seed. You can use a password to encrypt your seed.

odolvlobo

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Activity: 4466

Merit: 3391

Quote from: junghansmega on November 18, 2017, 09:38:37 AM

1)
Does this mean they generate a completely new keypair (including private) for each time you "receive"?
Or is it (not sure if this is possible) a new address which is linked to an existing private key?

Yes, most wallets now generate a new private/public key + address for each receive. An HD wallet generates private keys using the seed.

Quote from: junghansmega on November 18, 2017, 09:38:37 AM

2)
If it was a new keypair each time and you woud be receiving lots of transactions you'd end up with hundreds of keypairs/addresses with small amounts of coins "in" them.
Would this not make sending coins an insanely difficult task or at least -transaction fee wise- very expensive (you'd have to make hundreds of small transactions)?

The size of the transaction is determined by the number of inputs and outputs, and that is generally the same regardless of whether they use the same address or a different addresses.

Quote from: junghansmega on November 18, 2017, 09:38:37 AM

3)
I noticed the transaction fees with the wallets I looked at are quite high. Is there a software wallet (not mobile only though - I dont trust smartphones Wink

) which lets you actually chose what you are willing to pay? (I totally don't care if my transaction takes a few days to get picked by a miner and processed.)

There are several wallets that let you choose the transaction fee. Mycelium is one.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: junghansmega on November 18, 2017, 09:38:37 AM

I understand that wallets are essentially like keyrings (storing/managing/possibly even generating keys).
Ive seen that they can (like Exodus' "Receive" button) generate new bitcoin adresses (which is in my mind roughly equivalent to a public key).

1)
Does this mean they generate a completely new keypair (including private) for each time you "receive"?
Or is it (not sure if this is possible) a new address which is linked to an existing private key?

usually the key pair has already been "generated" because most wallets use hierarchical deterministic seeds now. but the wallet UI won't necessarily show a new address until you request it.

the new address is not linked to any previously generated private key. with HD wallets, all key pairs are derived from a single seed, though. sometimes people confuse the "seed" (which all key pairs are derived from) with "private keys" (from each key pair).

Quote from: junghansmega on November 18, 2017, 09:38:37 AM

2)
If it was a new keypair each time and you woud be receiving lots of transactions you'd end up with hundreds of keypairs/addresses with small amounts of coins "in" them.
Would this not make sending coins an insanely difficult task or at least -transaction fee wise- very expensive (you'd have to make hundreds of small transactions)?

addresses/public keys do not matter at all in this respect. every output you receive is an output, no matter what address it is sent to. sending outputs to the same address doesn't change anything. 3 outputs in 1 address is no different from 3 outputs in 3 addresses, from a transaction fee standpoint.

Quote from: junghansmega on November 18, 2017, 09:38:37 AM

3)
I noticed the transaction fees with the wallets I looked at are quite high. Is there a software wallet (not mobile only though - I dont trust smartphones Wink

) which lets you actually chose what you are willing to pay? (I totally don't care if my transaction takes a few days to get picked by a miner and processed.)

electrum lets you choose fees manually..... that's my preference. i generally check https://bitcoinfees.earn.com and then construct my transaction based on that.

good luck!

dothebeats

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Activity: 3542

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Cashback 15%

For questions 1 and 2, you can generate multiple addresses with only a single private key, these are called deterministic wallets. It can also be recovered using randomly-generated passphrases that acts as a password.

For number 3, you can use Electrum and you can put your own fees at your own will. Just don't get surprised if your tx don't get confirmations that fast especially if you put fees that are way below the network's recommended fees,

Alartonicus

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Activity: 87

Merit: 10

Hi!
1 and 2)
By default cold wallets generate a new address which is linked to an existing private key. You can have any number of such addresses
3)
It depends on what is a lot for you, and what is not enough. Try Bitcoin Core with widely regulated commissions

junghansmega

newbie

Activity: 10

Merit: 0

Hi,

ive mostly been using exchanges plus a few self-generated key-pairs for cold storage and am just now getting into wallets.
Thus I have some basic questions.

I understand that wallets are essentially like keyrings (storing/managing/possibly even generating keys).
Ive seen that they can (like Exodus' "Receive" button) generate new bitcoin adresses (which is in my mind roughly equivalent to a public key).

1)
Does this mean they generate a completely new keypair (including private) for each time you "receive"?
Or is it (not sure if this is possible) a new address which is linked to an existing private key?

2)
If it was a new keypair each time and you woud be receiving lots of transactions you'd end up with hundreds of keypairs/addresses with small amounts of coins "in" them.
Would this not make sending coins an insanely difficult task or at least -transaction fee wise- very expensive (you'd have to make hundreds of small transactions)?

3)
I noticed the transaction fees with the wallets I looked at are quite high. Is there a software wallet (not mobile only though - I dont trust smartphones Wink

) which lets you actually chose what you are willing to pay? (I totally don't care if my transaction takes a few days to get picked by a miner and processed.)

Thanks in advance!

Topic: A few general questions about addresses and wallets (Read 318 times)