Topic: A miner from Eindhoven - Government employee came for control (Read 3305 times)

Why you didn't just used the tinfoil?

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Reviving a topic after 3 years, sorry about that.
I totally forgot about this topic.

For the curious ones of the outcome of this issue..

I have let the inspector into my garage, he checked it out, measured it and told me disturbance is within limits.

There is a guy, across the street, on the top floor of an apartment complex, who has huge radio receivers / transmitters as it is his hobby to communicate with the other side of the world via radio.  
And all he got was my noise while I was mining, but since it was an extreme case, it was his problem, not mine. But he filed a complaint that there is disturbance in the area so they had to check.

Inspector told me the disturbance is within limits, it doesn't effect other people who wants to listen to radio so everything is fine, and he left. I never heard from him again.

I am still in NL, not sent back to Turkey
But not mining anymore.

Maybe he's sent back to Turkey and the equipment is seized? Who knows, he hasn't replied for a while now.

Yes, I'm curious too...

So, what did the inspector say?

I would suggest he build his mining rig a tinfoil hat (Faraday cage). 

The background story is strange at least,

- Call the number listed on the website for verification, not the number on the card.

When it all checks out, then sure show the inspector around and give him a small introduction to Bitcoin, explain what you are doing.
Videocards are well within EMC emission specs, so i find it hard to believe you're causing a disturbance somewhere in your block far away.
But anyway you can nullify these emissions by placing your rigs in a Faraday cage built from fine chicken wire or conductive fabric.

Wait whut?!?!

It is electromagnetic radiation, not a sound wave...

Yeah but where will we direct the noise then? ^.^
I mean if i put a wall to 1 side, it will go other way.. If i put a wall to that side too, it will go in-between forever with some leakages on vertical dimension which can still cause problems i think. Only way is to direct it to ground and that means a total cap on top of the rig.

At least with my limited knowledge, this is what I understand. :S

I think you dont have to build a case that is "custom made" and fits perfectly. Maybe you can make a wall of some kind of material (aluminium foil) that reflects the radio waves/ noise from the machine preventing to go outside your house and disturb the radio from your neighbour?

Maybe the inspector can give you some advice regarding the materials you can use, since you are not some kind of radio pirate

Aliminium foil is known to be useful in limiting noise.

Jupiter is in its own original metal case.
But my GPU rig is an open rig. I don't have a photo but I can take one and post it here after work.

May I ask how can i check the noise with a portable radio?
I can pull my car next to the wall of the garage and test it maybe? But which frequency should I try etc.?
You think every channel will have noise on background or something?

Hmms, the thing is, if i make a case for the whole rig, it will not be possible to cool it down properly. :/
And it is a huge architecture I built with IKEA bed bottom woods... :/

Those miners of yours, do you have a picture?

When they say that they are generating a lot of noise, I suspect that your miners are in an open case(for cooling). On PC's, the components are within a metal case. This prevents a lot of noise to be radiated past the Faraday cage(complete metal enclosure).

It will definitely help to put a metal mesh around the miners(materials can be bought at the gamma) and to ground the mesh properly.

Maybe you can check the noise yourself with a portable radio.


About the CE marking:
If it's on every separate component then yes, the individual components are covered and compliant. But when you build something with it, this doesn't mean that the machine is still compliant. There is a fair change that if the person visits you on monday and it is your device causing trouble, you have to shut it down. In the past they would just give you a warning but they are more strict these days due to radio piracy.

very useful thread first time i hear about electronic disturbance. and even there are laws about it.

I think it is most likely that the inspector will only check whether your equipment meets CE-standards (most products have CE approved markings on them). If they do meet these standards, I don't think there is much the inspector can do to be honest (other than kindly requesting you as a good neighbour to limit disturbance in so far as possible). Perhaps you can take a look at your mining-rigs and see whether the products you use have CE-markings on them.

If you have any products with a marking as follows on them, you are not allowed to use them:

http://www.marelmar.com/assets/images/better_quality_ce_mark_with_alert.JPG

Thanks a lot for the whole explanation.
So in this case it seems like it is wiser to let him see what is in my garage.

However, it would be a pity if they seize my 4000+ EUR worth investment.

I am very confused about how to proceed now..

Did anybody experienced this before?

Big respect for the above message! Great work man!
Very usefull info

As you work in Tech, you probably know that there are a broad range of  electronic devices that can cause electromagnetic disturbance. There are various EU-laws that have been implemented in the Netherlands that relate to such disturbances. Mostly they relate to the products that emit such disturbance, but they can also pertain to the person or entity that causes it. Which in this case is you. You can take a look at the EU-laws here:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004L0108:en:NOT

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31999L0005:en:NOT

The Dutch Telecommunications Act (in which aforementioned Directives are implemented) has assigned 'Agentschap Telecom' with the enforcement of the rules pertaining to disturbances in radio/electromagnetic waves. The Telecommunications Act sets rules for the use of the frequency space (ether). It mainly concerns frequencies for (mobile) communications, radio and television broadcasting, communications and air navigation, emergency services, defense, radar, satellite, radio amateurs, radio astronomy and radio links. For aforementioned use, a permit is usually required.  In some cases it could also pertain to home equipment (and obviously no permit is requireD) such as mobile phones, wireless (home) networks and home phones, baby monitors, medical implants, remote controls and alarm systems. However, the use of frequencies without a permit is also bound by rules.

Some intentional disturbances in radiofrequency waves (like the use of jammers) are enforced by the Agentschap on the basis of criminal law, and can be sanctioned with imprisonment. If the Agency determines that you have equipment which is contrary to the rules set out in the above guidelines, the Agency can seize your equipment. In most cases however enforcement is on the basis of administrative law (Algemene wet bestuursrecht) and violations of the law are sanctioned with a fine. Usually this Agency involves itself with the tracking and fining of so called 'radio pirates'. They might mistakenly suspect you of being a radio pirate, because of the disturbance you are causing. If they suspected you were growing weed, they wouldn't have sent the Agentschap Telecom, but you would have had actual police at your door.

It is indeed possible that your miners are interfering with radio signals. As a general rule, on the basis of Dutch adminstrative law you have an obligation to cooperate with authorities such as this. This means, that if they suspect you of an administrative violation, you are obligated to give them accurate information regarding the equipment you use. You don't have to cooperate in case they suspect you of a criminal violation, if the latter is the case you will know because they will point out your right to remain silent.

However, in any case you are not obligated to VOLUNTARILY give the authority access to your garage if it is part of your private home (if it is just a a seperate garage (box) they are allowed to enter). Keep in mind however, that even if you refuse access, the person in question can obtain a 'machtiging' from the Agentschap to enter your premises regardless. In which case it wouldn't matter

I haven't looked at the specifics of this situation but possible scenario's (out of the back of my head, keep in mind this is purely speculative without me having a further look into the merits):

1 ) You give the inspector access to your premises. Nothing is wrong and you can keep conducting business as usual.

2 ) You give the inspector access to your premises. Your equipment is causing unjustified disturbance and is seized and/or you will be fined and/or you will be fined if you do not voluntarily stop causing the disturbance (or limit it).

3 ) You give the inspector access to your premises. Your equipment is causing disturbance, but this disturbance is not so high or unreasonable to  justify seizing your equipment. It is likely you will be kindly requested to limit your disturbance in order not to cause your neighbours any problems.

4 ) You explicitely refuse the inspector access to your private property. Inspector leaves and you never hear of him again .

5 ) You explicitely refuse the inspector access to your private property. Inspector tries to talk you into giving him access anyway, explaining to you he could get permission to enforce access to your property regardless. In which case the inspector has to give you prior notice of his intentions before actually enforcing access.

Goedemiddag allemaal,
I'm sorry for writing this in English but i think it would be the best option to explain my story since I'm still learning Dutch and I'm not good enough yet.

My name is Erdem, and i'm 25 years old. I am originally from Turkey, came to NL to study 4 years ago and became an expat recently.
I work for a known tech company as a software engineer in Netherlands and I live in Eindhoven.
I have been mining SHA-256 and Scrypt coins since 3 months or so.
In my garage, I have a kncminers Jupiter which mines bitcoins with 632gh/s and also a GPU rig consisting from 13x HD7950s.
Currently, only 8 of the HD7950 and the jupiter is functioning due to electricity installation of my garage.

So currently, I consume around 3400watts 24/7.
After 2-3 months, this morning -while i was at work-, a government employee came to check the house.
My housemate opened the door to him and he left his card.
On his card, these are what is written:
--------------------
Agentschap Telecom
Ministerie van Economische Zaken,
Landbouw en Innovatie

name last name..
Inspecteur

Contact info..
Toezicht
Piet Mondrianlaan 54 / 3812GV Amersfoort
www.agentschaptelecom.nl
-----------------

Now I called him and we had a coversation.
He says that someone in my neighbourhood called them and complained about a static disturbance in the radio that he listens.
So today he came with a electronic scanner and he found out that it is coming from my garage.
I told him it is my private property and as long as what I do is legal, it is not supposed to be a problem.
And he explained a bit; yes it is possible but the disturbance has limits etc.

So now he wants to visit me on Monday and take a look at my garage.
Anyone experienced this before?
Is it possible that our miners are interfering with radio signals? Or they just want to make sure that I don't grow weed etc?
I have no fear of anything illegal since I am totally clean.
So is it wise to not to let him check my private property? Or do I have to let him see it?
Is there any risks involved if I don't let them see it, or also if i let them see it?

I am really confused. I expected that police may come suspecting of growing weed but radio signals