Topic: A place to discuss whatever the political orientation (Read 156 times)
The Trump effect:
Reserved for proposed changes in the use of the thread.
A lot of people already have their mind made up and nothing you can say will change their view. People refuse to listen to the facts, I run into people like this all the time in real life and I simply gave up trying to help them.
Sure but such people won't take time to break down their speech in a proper way. I hope this thread can help separate the stupids that just say shit and people actually willing to exchange facts and opinions on a subject
Quote
A lot of people already have their mind made up and nothing you can say will change their view. People refuse to listen to the facts, I run into people like this all the time in real life and I simply gave up trying to help them.Sure but such people won't take time to break down their speech in a proper way. I hope this thread can help separate the stupids that just say shit and people actually willing to exchange facts and opinions on a subject
Hello all.
I've got huge trouble discussing with some people here. Especially TECSHARE but not only. It seems to me that we tend to fight over heated subjects and not share different points of view. This is, most of the time, useless. Not much is learnt from both sides and both sides leave more convinced to be right than before.
So I'm creating a self-moderated thread with one objective, to have only objectively constructive content. How can we do that? Well by creating a common base of discussion.
Each post here must follow the same pattern. Any post following this pattern will be kept, any post not following it will be deleted. If you have criticism about the idea or the pattern, feel free to write what should be done or improved for you. I'll quote you in the next post then delete your post.
I'm not saying it's the ultimate solution but I'm tired of having the feeling of fighting over bad faith and lack of logic. So this is a proposal to have something constructive. If you have anything better to propose please be my guest.
Here is the proposed pattern:
An example:
Claim: Abortion is part of human society and is best regulated than forbidden.
Facts that back it up:
Logical reasonning: Banning abortion doesn't mean you won't have abortion, it means you will have unsafe abortions. Legalizing abortion means you will have nearly only safe abortion thus ensure the safety of mothers with unwanted pregnancy. As legalizing abortion doesn't mean the number of abortion will increase exponentially but rather will stabilize after decreasing for years, ensuring legal access to abortion is a good solution to ensure safety of potential mothers while not democratizing abortion as a normal procedure.
Conclusion: The pros seem to largely outweight the cons in favor of regulating abortion rather than banning it
Opinion: From a value point of view, I don't see how you can consider abortion a murder as the foetus has no self-counsciousness. A dog is far more intelligent and self-aware than a foetus. Moreover you can NEVER prevent all unwanted pregnancy even with the best intention. Rapes happen, failure in contraceptive methods happen, human mistakes happen.
I've got huge trouble discussing with some people here. Especially TECSHARE but not only. It seems to me that we tend to fight over heated subjects and not share different points of view. This is, most of the time, useless. Not much is learnt from both sides and both sides leave more convinced to be right than before.
So I'm creating a self-moderated thread with one objective, to have only objectively constructive content. How can we do that? Well by creating a common base of discussion.
Each post here must follow the same pattern. Any post following this pattern will be kept, any post not following it will be deleted. If you have criticism about the idea or the pattern, feel free to write what should be done or improved for you. I'll quote you in the next post then delete your post.
I'm not saying it's the ultimate solution but I'm tired of having the feeling of fighting over bad faith and lack of logic. So this is a proposal to have something constructive. If you have anything better to propose please be my guest.
Here is the proposed pattern:
Code:
[b]Claim/Assertion/Hypothesis/Theory[/b] (keep the one best suited): Neutral declaration without any fact
[b]Facts that back it up[/b]: List of the possible facts. One fact, one bullet, at least one source
[list]
[li][/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]
[b]Logical reasonning[/b]: if necessary, the logic linking the facts together can be explained here.
[b]Conclusion[/b]: You either state that your claim/assertion/hypothesis/theory is proven right, wrong, or still unproven.
[b]Opinion[/b]: opinions are important and must sometimes be voiced. Here state what you THINK/BELIEVE/FEEL about the subject but haven't backed with facts and logical reasonning. This can be linked to values, self experience or other things.
An example:
Claim: Abortion is part of human society and is best regulated than forbidden.
Facts that back it up:
- Abortions are decreasing steadily in countries with new legal access to abortion.
http://contraceptivestudies.imedpub.com/the-evolution-of-the-number-of-abortions-in-the-omsk-region-for-20052015.php?aid=21977 - In countries with a long term legal access abortion, number of abortions seem to reach a base level and stop evolving.
https://www.ined.fr/en/everything_about_population/data/france/abortion-contraception/abortions/ - Unsafe abortions take place in countries banning abortion and are a leading death cause in the maternity field.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2709326/
Logical reasonning: Banning abortion doesn't mean you won't have abortion, it means you will have unsafe abortions. Legalizing abortion means you will have nearly only safe abortion thus ensure the safety of mothers with unwanted pregnancy. As legalizing abortion doesn't mean the number of abortion will increase exponentially but rather will stabilize after decreasing for years, ensuring legal access to abortion is a good solution to ensure safety of potential mothers while not democratizing abortion as a normal procedure.
Conclusion: The pros seem to largely outweight the cons in favor of regulating abortion rather than banning it
Opinion: From a value point of view, I don't see how you can consider abortion a murder as the foetus has no self-counsciousness. A dog is far more intelligent and self-aware than a foetus. Moreover you can NEVER prevent all unwanted pregnancy even with the best intention. Rapes happen, failure in contraceptive methods happen, human mistakes happen.
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