A Q for Bitcoin casino reps. Are your profits affected by high transaction fees?

actmyname

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Quote from: adaseb on January 11, 2018, 05:40:38 AM

Casinos should implement some type of variable fee where if the transaction is small the fee should be as small as possible just as long as it confirms.

If someone withdraws 1BTC then its understandable that paying 0.003BTC is a fair fee.

Outputs can be bundled together in one transaction in order to save on fees. Meaning you wouldn't really know what the fee is until after a transaction is prepared. This is assuming maximum efficiency on the casino's part.

Additionally, you have to realize that even though it may seem justified to charge a .003 fee on a 1 BTC withdrawal, the amount doesn't really determine the fee. Rather, the size of the transaction which is based on a variety of factors.

If we have just 1 txin and 1 txout, the fee could be something like .0007 for massive withdrawals.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: adaseb on January 11, 2018, 05:40:38 AM

Yes it definately affects the casinos profits and some casinos might even lose gamblers unless they move to other alts.

Fortunejack for example is good because they don't charge any withdraws fee. Currently the min withdraw is like 0.002BTC, and sometimes they end up paying 0.003-0.005 BTC withdraw fee themselves.

So basically the withdraw fee costs more than the transaction itself.

Does Fortunejack use Segwit enabled wallets? Because if they are willing to pay for the withdrawal fees, then having Segwit and batch payments is a must. It will help make it easier for their casino and the Bitcoin blockchain.

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Casinos should implement some type of variable fee where if the transaction is small the fee should be as small as possible just as long as it confirms.

If someone withdraws 1BTC then its understandable that paying 0.003BTC is a fair fee.

I agree. Fee options would be good for the customer. If he or she is willing to wait for hours for a withdrawal to confirm, make it his or her choice to lower the fee.

adaseb

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Yes it definately affects the casinos profits and some casinos might even lose gamblers unless they move to other alts.

Fortunejack for example is good because they don't charge any withdraws fee. Currently the min withdraw is like 0.002BTC, and sometimes they end up paying 0.003-0.005 BTC withdraw fee themselves.

So basically the withdraw fee costs more than the transaction itself.

Casinos should implement some type of variable fee where if the transaction is small the fee should be as small as possible just as long as it confirms.

If someone withdraws 1BTC then its understandable that paying 0.003BTC is a fair fee.

Wind_FURY

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Are there more Bitcoin casino sites that use Segwit enabled wallets besides Yolodice, Bustabit and Betking? I have already talked to two of them, I will get some feedback from Betking next.

This is very important because Segwit is the introduction to the Lightning Network. Plus you want cheaper fees? Then help create awareness by asking your favorite casino questions about Segwit and why some of them do have it enabled.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: DARKANGEL6415 on December 30, 2017, 12:14:34 PM

I actually just read a article on Google from coindesk that was saying they are doing tests on lightning network transactions. It was a cell phone service provider testing it to see how fast people can load prepaid cell phones. From what i read the tests look good and had no high transaction fees. Now granted this is still all test on paper but if it come to fruition then it will be a major welcome to bitcoin.

Yes, that is another reason why the largest Bitcoin service providers should have Segwit enabled. You know the Lightning Network will only work if Segwit was implemented, right?

As you can see, I am trying to convince everyone to convince others on spreading Segwit awareness. But I am only one person. I hope some of you will also join me.

The good places to start campaigning for Segwit would be in gambling because it is very active and also the campaign signatures because payments are always small.

DARKANGEL6415

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I actually just read a article on Google from coindesk that was saying they are doing tests on lightning network transactions. It was a cell phone service provider testing it to see how fast people can load prepaid cell phones. From what i read the tests look good and had no high transaction fees. Now granted this is still all test on paper but if it come to fruition then it will be a major welcome to bitcoin.

audrey12

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Transaction fees really suck for as much as I would like to convert my bitcoin I couldn't transafer if to my country's on line wallet because certain cases like transaction fees is more than higher than the amoubt to be transacted. I am so much worried about it because I am losing so much from this I hope transaction fees will be gone or somehow lowered

CrazyCraig

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Mining fees are affecting more than just casino bottom lines. Its affecting users and the bitcoin network as a whole. Users with balances < 0.01 are paying ridiculous fees in comparison to balances.

Oilacris

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Quote from: adaseb on December 28, 2017, 05:47:04 AM

Quote from: Aengus on December 20, 2017, 02:42:32 AM

Primedice is heavily affected. We have always been massive supporters of Bitcoin, not wanting to accept any alts. But these fees are getting ridiculous. We're pretty close to abandoning our original morals and seeing what coins our community would like to see us accept.

Primedice has made donations to numerous individuals working behind projects such as the lightning network.

Lets hope this is sorted sooner rather than later.

On Reddit today one of the developers of LN he manage to get his phone bill paid by using the mainnet lightning network.

There is a video of it somewhere if you search.

Basically it seems like its technology that can work. The payment was instant and almost free. The software can be run on any low end computer. Most likely there will be enough hop to get the transaction to its destination.

However its still very new Alpha or beta software. Could be another year or 2 before it gets mass adoption.

I imagine if this innovation would really be applied then these problems we are experiencing as of now will be gone. Would you mind on posting link? I cant search up regarding on that youtube video.
When it comes on bitcoin casinos related to the fees they would really suffer up specially to those who offer free withdrawals considering on the amount of fees and no. of players that do make cash-outs. It would really add up on expenses.

Wind_FURY

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But too bad none of the biggest wallet providers are having Segwit enabled. Segwit is a requirement for the Lightning Network to work.

What we should do as a community is to let our voices be heard that we need Segwit to lower the fees. I have been campaigning around the forum for this. I know almost all of you are using Blockchain.info as your "spending wallet". Stop using it and please start using Green Address, https://greenaddress.it/en/.

adaseb

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Quote from: Aengus on December 20, 2017, 02:42:32 AM

Primedice is heavily affected. We have always been massive supporters of Bitcoin, not wanting to accept any alts. But these fees are getting ridiculous. We're pretty close to abandoning our original morals and seeing what coins our community would like to see us accept.

Primedice has made donations to numerous individuals working behind projects such as the lightning network.

Lets hope this is sorted sooner rather than later.

On Reddit today one of the developers of LN he manage to get his phone bill paid by using the mainnet lightning network.

There is a video of it somewhere if you search.

Basically it seems like its technology that can work. The payment was instant and almost free. The software can be run on any low end computer. Most likely there will be enough hop to get the transaction to its destination.

However its still very new Alpha or beta software. Could be another year or 2 before it gets mass adoption.

stingers

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Of course, while the big shots of gambling remain unaffected, casual gamblers are giving up bitcoin gambling.
$15-40 transaction fees? Many of us casual gamblers bet this much in a week. This fees is ridiculously high, more and more people are shifting to altcoin gambling.
I am very sure most of casinos will adopt segwit and even lightning soon, this is the only way to retain casual gamblers on their websites.
Even i stopped gambling on primedice, i miss old days. ETH/LTC gambling is rising now.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: kryptqnick on December 25, 2017, 05:56:11 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 15, 2017, 11:46:43 PM

Clearly the answer is yes. High fees do affect a Bitcoin casino's profitability badly, but I am interested in what kind of solutions are you planning to fix it?

Is it enabling Segwit or shifting your business to accept altcoins like Bitcoin Cash?

Bch is not fully recognized to be an altcoin, some say it's just another btc.

No. Bitcoin Cash is an altcoin. They changed the protocol and split from the main chain. Plus do not listen to Roger Ver's propaganda. He is trying to confuse the general public.

Quote from: NLNico on December 26, 2017, 12:06:44 AM

AFAIK most bitcoin gambling sites are not yet using segwit (just yolodice, bustadice, betking, ..?) Most are using Bitcoin Core and it's not really ideal to use segwit just yet. But within some months Core 0.16.0 will be released with proper segwit support. I expect most/all bitcoin casinos to enable segwit by that point.

I hope so. Plus I will also try to talk to the reps of those casinos you mentioned and talk about their Segwit implementation.

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If the bigger companies (coinbase, blockchain.info, etc) use segwit too by that time, the fees could seriously go down a bit again (not cents, but lower than now lol.)

I am not that optimistic. The NYA signatories might have their own agenda.

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I am also curious to figure out if/how gambling sites can adopt lightning, but haven't been able to properly test LN myself.

The first services that will have 2nd layer scaling solutions will be the smaller companies because they are more nimble and it is easier to change their infrastructure. The bigger ones like Blockchain.info will have a more difficult time, and that will make them "obsolete" and fail.

Watch out for the next big webwallet, Greenaddress.it. I believe they will be one of the first to have a Lightning payment channel open.

BTCevo

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Quote from: valta4065 on December 26, 2017, 11:49:02 AM

Quote from: Aengus on December 20, 2017, 02:42:32 AM

Primedice is heavily affected. We have always been massive supporters of Bitcoin, not wanting to accept any alts. But these fees are getting ridiculous. We're pretty close to abandoning our original morals and seeing what coins our community would like to see us accept.

Primedice has made donations to numerous individuals working behind projects such as the lightning network.

Lets hope this is sorted sooner rather than later.

Interesting...

Currently let's be honest bitcoin is used for only three things:
-Investing short/long term
-As a currency hub to get to other coins, but ETH has already created a way to get around the compulsory bitcoin
-Gambling, freaking gambling in every possible way

Whatever the "possibilities" of bitcoin, gambling is the only current and actual use we can see on a daily basis. That means there is a real danger if all casinos try to favor altcoins...

This is a good point how we describe the bitcoin for now but nowadays people are using it for transaction too in a real life thing, may be some countries banned it just because it does not any affection to government due to tax but yet they still doing it without government even notice this about. Because of this blockchain everything is tradable without any tracks left

So i can say that for me it does not really matter because your value of your coin increase so do the fee as well. It just the same thing when bitcoin is still on low price

valta4065

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Quote from: Aengus on December 20, 2017, 02:42:32 AM

Primedice is heavily affected. We have always been massive supporters of Bitcoin, not wanting to accept any alts. But these fees are getting ridiculous. We're pretty close to abandoning our original morals and seeing what coins our community would like to see us accept.

Primedice has made donations to numerous individuals working behind projects such as the lightning network.

Lets hope this is sorted sooner rather than later.

Interesting...

Currently let's be honest bitcoin is used for only three things:
-Investing short/long term
-As a currency hub to get to other coins, but ETH has already created a way to get around the compulsory bitcoin
-Gambling, freaking gambling in every possible way

Whatever the "possibilities" of bitcoin, gambling is the only current and actual use we can see on a daily basis. That means there is a real danger if all casinos try to favor altcoins...

Fortunecoins

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I think that for bitcoin casinos there is no choice now. They have to pay fees themselves. Otherwise they lose players.
Our casino pays fees but it becomes more and more difficult to satisfy both players and house

NLNico

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AFAIK most bitcoin gambling sites are not yet using segwit (just yolodice, bustadice, betking, ..?) Most are using Bitcoin Core and it's not really ideal to use segwit just yet. But within some months Core 0.16.0 will be released with proper segwit support. I expect most/all bitcoin casinos to enable segwit by that point.

If the bigger companies (coinbase, blockchain.info, etc) use segwit too by that time, the fees could seriously go down a bit again (not cents, but lower than now lol.)

I am also curious to figure out if/how gambling sites can adopt lightning, but haven't been able to properly test LN myself.

steveabrahams

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 15, 2017, 11:46:43 PM

Clearly the answer is yes. High fees do affect a Bitcoin casino's profitability badly, but I am interested in what kind of solutions are you planning to fix it?

Is it enabling Segwit or shifting your business to accept altcoins like Bitcoin Cash?

On nitrogensports, they make a new rules about withdrawal. They provide free withdrawal without fee once in 2 weeks. Actually it's once a week but after that a new rules coming because of the huge fee on bitcoin fees.

Quote from: Bitinity on December 24, 2017, 10:38:34 PM

Absolutely yes especially for small gamblers like me, I need to spend too much money for the transaction fees on both deposit and withdrawal. Lets say I want to play with 0.002btc only, it will force me to spend double or even triple amount because of the fees. So in order to make profit, then I should win more than 3x of my initial deposit to recover the fees. Otherwise I will get no profit at all, while it was fine to win 2x because the fee was not so high like recent days.

I know what you feel man, i also a small gambler and even the fees is more bigger than my deposit. The best choice is to stop deposit with small amount and wait until the fees decrease.

actmyname

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Quote from: kryptqnick on December 25, 2017, 05:56:11 AM

Bch is not fully recognized to be an altcoin, some say it's just another btc.

'Another BTC' is an altcoin. An alternate coin.

Quote from: kryptqnick on December 25, 2017, 05:56:11 AM

Yet bch is not really helping a lot, for the fees have grown there as well and are now about $10 which is still too high. I think we should all turn to litecoin as a main currency now.

Or find an alternative solution, instead of relying on altcoins.

chris200x9

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Not only just bitcoin casino operators are facing issues from high transaction fees and slow confirmation but also same for the players. Because if they want to gamble with a small amount like $50 or $100 then may need to almost 50% of that amount on transaction fees at the current movement. It has actually forced both players and casino operators to think about other altcoins to use.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 15, 2017, 11:46:43 PM

Clearly the answer is yes. High fees do affect a Bitcoin casino's profitability badly, but I am interested in what kind of solutions are you planning to fix it?

Is it enabling Segwit or shifting your business to accept altcoins like Bitcoin Cash?

Bch is not fully recognized to be an altcoin, some say it's just another btc. Transaction fees are a big problem indeed and not only in the sphere of gambling but in any area where bitcoin is used. A couple of months ago I could enjoy transferring about 15 dollars on an exchange to make some experimental investments and I could even get profit out of it, whereas now this sum won't even cover the fee. Yet bch is not really helping a lot, for the fees have grown there as well and are now about $10 which is still too high. I think we should all turn to litecoin as a main currency now.

Erza

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Quote from: Bitinity on December 24, 2017, 10:38:34 PM

Absolutely yes especially for small gamblers like me, I need to spend too much money for the transaction fees on both deposit and withdrawal. Lets say I want to play with 0.002btc only, it will force me to spend double or even triple amount because of the fees. So in order to make profit, then I should win more than 3x of my initial deposit to recover the fees. Otherwise I will get no profit at all, while it was fine to win 2x because the fee was not so high like recent days.

If you know this may be you yourselves already know the answer. You need yo gamble more than what you need to pay the fee so everything will be back to normal. And btw why you need to send such a low amount? You can send more than 0.002 btc right? 0.1 and 0.002 fee is the same why not to put 0.1 btc to play? With 0.1 btc you have much more chance to winning some amount so you might have the chance to pay the fee

Bitinity

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Absolutely yes especially for small gamblers like me, I need to spend too much money for the transaction fees on both deposit and withdrawal. Lets say I want to play with 0.002btc only, it will force me to spend double or even triple amount because of the fees. So in order to make profit, then I should win more than 3x of my initial deposit to recover the fees. Otherwise I will get no profit at all, while it was fine to win 2x because the fee was not so high like recent days.

omonuyak

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 15, 2017, 11:46:43 PM

Clearly the answer is yes. High fees do affect a Bitcoin casino's profitability badly, but I am interested in what kind of solutions are you planning to fix it?

Is it enabling Segwit or shifting your business to accept altcoins like Bitcoin Cash?

The mining fees is seriously affect every ways we make money through bitcoin and casino is not exempted. If you are investing $100 and you are paying $75 as fees is not encouraging. Many people are avoiding gaming for bitcoin this days because of the fees and I believe that expert has been warning us over this and the fees is currently affecting price bitcoin advancements.

man22555

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It affects me very much since i usally play with balances around 50-200$. I recently switched from primedice to bitsler to play with DOGE or LTC. Can only recommend this for everyone

DARKANGEL6415

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Personally i think that any gambling site should offer the option to use at the minimal three crypto currencies for betting and deposit/ withdrawal purposes. Also if people want to use bitcoin strictly then they should offer users a chance to select the withdrawal fee they want to pay. I agree that we need to find a solution but that solution should not be to drop bitcoin transactions all together.

Wind_FURY

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I am happy with the positive feed back this thread is having. Do some of you want to campaign for Segwit usage in the forum? It is easy.

Encourage others to start using GreenAddress, Samourai wallet and Electrum.
Ask your favorite Bitcoin casino to have Segwit enabled.
Start underbidding fees yourself from your Segwit enabled wallet.

Quote from: Aengus on December 20, 2017, 02:42:32 AM

Primedice is heavily affected. We have always been massive supporters of Bitcoin, not wanting to accept any alts. But these fees are getting ridiculous. We're pretty close to abandoning our original morals and seeing what coins our community would like to see us accept.

Primedice has made donations to numerous individuals working behind projects such as the lightning network.

Lets hope this is sorted sooner rather than later.

If they support the Lightning Network then they should be leading Segwit implementation. Ask them to have it enabled. The high fees are proof that there is a demand for it.

piloder

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Quote from: RGBKey on December 15, 2017, 11:50:01 PM

Segwit is a change operators can make that allows them to continue to use Bitcoin with full backwards compatibility but pay less in fees. Altcoins aren't really a solution to a user base that wants to use Bitcoin.

I'm personally not a fan of services that don't use Segwit yet but still charge their users high withdraw fees.

I also agree with you adopting segwit is better solution than accepting some random altcoin just because they are in news or being promoted by few millionaires.

However segwit is not yet adopted by many bitcoin related services specially by casino and wallets,if there will be lightening network in future than also it might take years to get adopted by majority of services just like how segwit is still in its adoption phase.

devans

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 20, 2017, 01:21:11 AM

So what are the services or gambling sites you use that have Segwit enabled?

Plus maybe we should compile a list and open thread to make the users more aware that there is already a workable solution for the fixing the high transaction fees issue.

Segwit is just there waiting to be used, let's use it! Ask your favorite gambling site to enable it!

bustadice makes full use of SegWit and a custom coin selection algorithm in order to minimize transaction costs. To further save on fees, users can choose to have their withdrawal batched with others, currently bringing the fee for a withdrawal down to approximately Ƀ 0.0002. We aim to offer withdrawals at cost and do not profit from them.

Short of subsidizing them I believe no other service is able to offer lower withdrawal fees, yet the fees are still quite substantial. So while SegWit definitely alleviates the problem, it is unfortunately not sufficient to make fees manageable for an individual service.

Aengus

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Primedice is heavily affected. We have always been massive supporters of Bitcoin, not wanting to accept any alts. But these fees are getting ridiculous. We're pretty close to abandoning our original morals and seeing what coins our community would like to see us accept.

Primedice has made donations to numerous individuals working behind projects such as the lightning network.

Lets hope this is sorted sooner rather than later.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: RGBKey on December 15, 2017, 11:50:01 PM

Segwit is a change operators can make that allows them to continue to use Bitcoin with full backwards compatibility but pay less in fees. Altcoins aren't really a solution to a user base that wants to use Bitcoin.

I'm personally not a fan of services that don't use Segwit yet but still charge their users high withdraw fees.

So what are the services or gambling sites you use that have Segwit enabled?

Plus maybe we should compile a list and open thread to make the users more aware that there is already a workable solution for the fixing the high transaction fees issue.

Segwit is just there waiting to be used, let's use it! Ask your favorite gambling site to enable it!

RGBKey

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Segwit is a change operators can make that allows them to continue to use Bitcoin with full backwards compatibility but pay less in fees. Altcoins aren't really a solution to a user base that wants to use Bitcoin.

I'm personally not a fan of services that don't use Segwit yet but still charge their users high withdraw fees.

Wind_FURY

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Clearly the answer is yes. High fees do affect a Bitcoin casino's profitability badly, but I am interested in what kind of solutions are you planning to fix it?

Is it enabling Segwit or shifting your business to accept altcoins like Bitcoin Cash?

Topic: A Q for Bitcoin casino reps. Are your profits affected by high transaction fees? (Read 451 times)