Topic: A Trump + Merkel ban would mean nothing (Read 353 times)

They can't kill Bitcoin, or rather crypto as a whole, but that doesn't mean they can't make its use and possession meaningless beside the Dark Web. Most people are involved in crypto exclusively for profit opportunities it offers. If it would offer criminal prosecution instead and result in imprisonment (since this is what you likely mean by "a full frontal ban"), people would avoid it like the plague. Needless to say what it would mean to prices if powerful governments like those of US, EU, Russia and China decided to crack down on crypto in earnest. Those would be the dark ages for all of us, though I don't think it ever comes to that.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are not that big yet to give them the jitters.

You can't say that decisions of some government is not important, because everything is connected when it comes to crypto. What I mean is, if one major country like US decide that crypto should be banned, that would probably make chain reaction and some other countries would ban crypto as well. That would have strong impact on crypto, and to be honest who knows what exactly could happen. After all if people can't use bitcoin as an currency (which is main goal of it), and earning extra money becomes to complicated, eventually large number of people would leave crytpo market. I agree that crypto can survive almost everything, and that revolution can only be delayed but not stopped, but decisions of our governments matter. Or at least that is what I think.

no way back for crypto

it is not just about the supply although i agree fully with it.
it is all about the fact that bitcoin is a decentralized currency and what this government or that government says about bitcoin should not matter in first place!

it is obvious that if a government accepts bitcoin with open arms (eg. Japan) the growth of bitcoin will speed up consequently but if the opposite of it happens the growth won't stop, it will just slow down. and the government can not resist revolutions, they eventually have to give in because bitcoin is inevitable so is its adoption.

The thing about other illegal things is that they're typically only as valuable as they are because logistics artificially constrain the supply. This is where Bitcoin's decentralization works against itself in case of a ban -- because it cannot be effectively stopped and it could easily be masked, it would be way too easy to get, making it even less valuable. There won't be much of a bullish effect no matter what happens to the supply either if demand is zero or close to it. Even if the very few individuals left decided to gobble up all the coins in the aftermath, they might as well be trading play money amongst themselves at that point.

But yeah, all of this is pointless conjecture because, again, a ban of that scale is never going to happen.

Who's going to go so far to circumvent the law for a coin that can't be used for commerce because it's illegal, can't be freely traded in public, and with which all association is illegal? Sure, demand would just stay constant or even increase after it becomes illegal and people face financial penalties or jail time. You're delusional mate. Bitcoin has a hard enough time getting adopted when it's perfectly legal, how delusional do you have to be to believe it'll be more so if it were completely outlawed? As it is, the only thing it's demanded for right now is get rich quick dreams because people are wealthy enough to speculate on an inherently worthless asset that produces no income and whose only functional utility is promised years down the road in vague and poorly conceived ways. A vast minority of bitcoin is used as a currency or in commerce right now, but sure, that'll all change if it were outlawed.


Nice alternative fact. I'm sure nobody here remembers the months-long period where fees and transaction times were sky high due to all the spam transactions clogging up the mempool. You pretty much summed up everything wrong with Bitcoin by admitting that you don't use it and are just holding it. The only way you can realize a gain on it is to find someone to sell to higher than what you paid for it, and like I said, if it were illegal, you wouldn't and because people would no longer expect to make a profit from it coupled with the legal repercussions, demand would collapse.

That's not true, everyone on here would like to say that people wouldn't be able to enforce it. But you have to understand that people (normal everyday people, not early adopters) aren't going to get involved with something that is illegal, it's going to get them in trouble and regular people who don't NEED bitcoin don't want to risk their lives for a random cause.

Wrong. Demand will not evaporate, just as demand for many other illegal things can't never evaporate, it will just shake out weak hands temporarily. There will always be demand for Bitcoin, and the supply will continue shrinking no matter what, putting a permanent bullish force on it, no matter what governments have to say about it.
The network has not been vulnerable to spam attacks. All that the attackers have done is losing money, that's all. Demand for Bitcoin went up even with huge fees. The speculative factor is here to stay. I use Bitcoin by holding it, I don't even care about fees, and there are many like me, so we will keep using it even if a government fills the blocks all day. And by filling the blocks, they are attacking themselves in the long term, since they have to either keep allocating capital for the task, or simply print more money. The fundamentals are still in Bitcoin's favor.

There will always be ways for people to obtain Bitcoin, that's not a problem, specially for people with a lot of money.

Overall governments trying to kill Bitcoin will just result in a long term net loss for them, and a long term win for these that hold it.

And remember that Bitcoin has value in the first place precisely because it can exist irrespective of governments considering it legal or illegal. If this wasn't the case, it's value would be 0.

Well I wouldn't say it's Trump and Merkel, I would say it's more Trump and Macron, because Merkel is losing power recently, and Trump and Macron are close friends, so they will probably unite forces and will try to make decision together. Anyway, regarding bitcoin, I don't think they will ban it. In fact I don't think any advance and liberal country will ever take a decision like that. Those things work well in countries like China, where its citizens are afraid to take action and to fight for their beliefs. But on liberal countries, governments know they need to keep their population happy, and can't really make drastic decisions like that.

Their best option would be to try to create something "similar" in order to fool the masses (like a digital coin backed by them, and that would offer it's citizens some king of advantage). I don't see how they can do that though, so BTC is here to stay, and they will just try to charge taxes from it. We will likely pay them, because there is not point to give them reason to be dictators, so BTC will continue to grow, but it will be regulated in a way that everyone wins.

They can't really ban it, just make it more difficult to access I guess?  It's nearly impossible to stop unless there's something they have that I don't know about.  It'd take shutting down the web entirely and that is getting nearly impossible in the coming years as well, so it's pretty much over with.  This is just a death rattle of the previous system struggling against change that it can't stop.

Politicians say much but just a little part of their speech are truth and very small part of their ideas are made. So I do not pay attention on this while there are no real actions.

I think it will only help Bitcoin to return on the right way - to become a currency for those, who want to be independent from government regulations, and not just another investment tool as it looks like now.

They wouldn't do it as it's a billion dollar economy that is a source of taxes and employment. Banning it in a country where it's already thriving would be like shooting yourself in the knee. You'd have protesters in the streets, less money in the budget, possibly increased migration to countries that support it... It's just not going to happen.
What would it mean if it happened? First of all Merkel doesn't set the EU laws, it would have to go through the parliament, and countries are known not to follow Merkel's opinion.  Just look at the case with the migrants. Some countries didn't accept them even though they were pressured by Merkel and Macron. She would only divide the EU once again.

I think it will severely impact the market, as US and EU to an extent is a big market for crypto.


Yes, I agree that government can't kill or even stop bitcoin. So short term we might see a big fall, however, long term I think that we can slowly recover. I think investors are mature enough not to be sway though about the FUD spreading around specially about news the US is banning bitcoin.

I agree, those who are in position and wanted to accumulate Bitcoin will try to push its price down by using their power to make people think that they are really agaisnt this cryptocurrency and it has no future..  Sad part is, while they are disguising to combat cryptocurrency and accumulating lots of coins, many people are losing money on the process.  We may say this is just weeding out the weak hands but still lives will be possibly destroyed due to financial bankruptcy just to have their goal met. 

Government can deny Bicoin but eventually they will give in because of the peoples demand and government does not want to miss out a sector that will possibly give them a huge income in the future.

Main goal of spreading misinformation is always same, FUD and everything that goes in hand with it. I guess because price has started rising, some people wants to buy more coins, but for lower price and for that they need something which will bring price down a bit. And there is where this misinformation comes in handy. At least that is logical explanation that I could come with, because banning of crypto is almost impossible to happen.
There could be other "secondary" reasons too, but main will always be the same.

Exactly, politicians are also human, and like to have their savings in bitcoin. Doubt that will happen...
Also, the countries that stay opened are gaining from the countries banning...

there will be never like that.
we should live our life same as before as many businessman and elites are joining us.
with the amount of money they have! they just want to enteg good or better and they are controlling the market.
which it is hard to do! will they make it?

This is a pretty hype-induced post if you're trying to represent that two of the largest economies in the world banning bitcoin wouldn't tank the price and permanently halt adoption. And to keep with the same language you're using, I am talking a full frontal ban, including any trading and possession of Bitcoin. In a case where possession and trading is illegal, so would working on the code. Improvements and innovation ends, fiat gateways (exchanges) are shut down (because that's far easier to shut down than the network), the price collapses as demand evaporates. What business is going to accept it when it's been outlawed? There'd be no benefit in doing so anymore, putting more nails in the coffin. You may not be able to fully shut down a decentralized network, but we've already seen how vulnerable Bitcoin is to spam attacks, and who is going to continue to use something that barely works anymore? Some random spammers ground the network down to a crawl very recently for months, and you think the government wouldn't be able to clog the network better and longer if they wanted to render it unusable? If you think governments can't kill Bitcoin, you're delusional. What's further is that the post is pointless because it's positing on something that isn't currently a potential development.

FUD is one thing, but mindless posts like this are equally as stupid.

Information that the US president Trump allegedly banned bitcoin was first published in the "discussion of bitcoins" section. I'm sure that the information is fictitious. In the US and Germany, they could not take decisions on the prohibition of bitcoin at this level. This would completely contradict the previous decisions of various state bodies of these countries. This is especially illogical in Germany, where bitcoin is already recognized as a legal tender.

It reminds me the situation with prostitution in the Netherlands - instead of banning the human basic instinct they legalized it and got even more profit due to taxes.
BTC and cryptocurrencies in general can be banned only in the countries with the "total control" regimes, as these tend to regularize all the sprouts of autonomy demonstrated by their citizens.

To me, the even more powerful notion is that you could ban bitcoin, but it'd be hard to ban the idea underlying it because it could take many forms.

It is not about killing it. Nobody can kill bitcoin. They can try to slow down the adoption&trade volume though. A lot. If btc stays at $5k for 10 years and if it starts to go lower because of those bans, I wouldn't call a bitcoin like this "alive"

Not everybody shares the same anarchist spirit as you do. Some people are just cows. They will stop using btc just because their gov told them to do so, but the other people, they won't care.

Just like torrent.

It is illegal almost in every country but we still use it and don't give a shit.

There is a little truth in this statement, They are just hitting the bitcoin bad so they can buy the weakness and control the interest of people by FOMOing them. It may affect the short term, but they can't in the long term.

In the US and Germany, bitcoins can no longer be banned today. I think that false information is intentionally launched, but it is not clear with what purpose. In the US, the regulation of the crypto currency is harsh, but it has been taken for a long-term perspective as working papers. In Germany, the most friendly to the crypto-currencies are now generally accepted. There, bitcoin is already recognized as a legal tender and transactions with it are exempt from tax. Therefore, in these countries there is no point in making absolutely opposite decisions.

This game that our governments is playing is going to last for. To me nobody can ban crypto currencies because this market is decentralized and no government, associations and company has control over it and that means usa or any country banning bitcoin will means nothing in the long-term.

Sometimes people here are getting hilarious...
The US and the EU hold almost 50% of the world GDP, and if we count services and the banking sector that is well above the 2/3 of the world.And all out ban, in usage, exchange, trading and possession would send us in a matter of hours back to 2012 levels.

Yeah, you can't stop bitcoin and you can prevent everybody from using it but the move would be catastrophic for the environment now.

Fortunately it won't happen and even if they are willing to do so, it's too damn complicated for the EU to take a common stance against bitcoin. There is so much bureaucracy countries have veto power, they can ask for up to 5 years extensions period when it comes to financial issues...it's not going to happen.

Why would the EU and USA ban bitcoin if they know so well that they can milk the hell out of it in by taxing it? Instead of banning the trades and crypto-related commerce (which will potentially lose them money anyway), they'd find a way to impose taxes that are aggressive yet still looks OK in plain sight. The FUD about the bans are just nothing but mere speculation and scare-mongering, as there are no statements or any gestures regarding the bans released yet. If ever they've decided to do such and cryptocurrencies still thrived, that is when they'd most likely lift any bans regarding these coins as it proved that no amount of government restrictions could hold down bitcoin's growing popularity to the masses.

Only those who know very little about things that are going on in crypto world, still believe that total ban of crypto have high chances of happening. I mean its not totally impossible, but chances for that are extremely low. Banning crypto would bring nothing, while on the other hand regulating could bring so much to EU and USA. Governments will always chose course of action that suits them the most, and that is not banning.

But I guess that you are correct, that on long terms price would recover. But it would be massive blow for crypto market to lose EU and USA users. Losing users is never good for product.

We are all responsible for our own actions, but that doesn't mean some deserve to hold bitcoins more than others. In my opinion, what you said is just wrong. We all make mistakes and pay for them.

I would not be surprised to see something like that, after all we are talking about politics and making money. 

Totally agree. This is impossible to make a total ban on something decentralized, but, regarding mass adoption, regulations are crucial. If US and EU decide to ban the use of Bitcoin it is going to be difficult for the people to use it as a common tool, more likely they will prefer to stay away from it. Thinking about a small business, for example, as much as you want to implement a payment-bitcoin -method in your business, if the state you belong to says NO, then it is going to be difficult for you to make it real.
Regulations are necessary if we want crypto to become mainstream, but not crucial for its actual use. Nevertheless, nor EU, nor US seems to have any intention of banning the coin.

Newbie is fudding around.

US banning ban is a highly unlikely scenario. [hypothetically] If it comes to that then it wouldn't be like the China ban, recovery wouldn't be easy, yeah in the long-term it means nothing, but it would be very long, in the short-term Bitcoin would be crippled. If the US bans Bitcoin then countries that have taken a neutral approach towards Bitcoin might probably follow suit, quite possible.

Bitcoin has come a long way from being a niche coin, nerd coin, criminal's coin to being in the process of becoming a mainstream financial investment where a good number of investors neither understand the technology nor the ideology, don't use it as a medium of exchange, but do perceive it as a good investment, maybe for short-term or long-term, weak hands and investors, but US ban will take majority of these people away leaving Bitcoin to where it was maybe a year or two ago. We are still in the very early phase, we don't need bans, but we still need weak hands or people who don't understand Bitcoin or for why it was created to take the momentum forward, for mainstream adoption. If the average Joe isn't able to be a part of Bitcoin because of ban then it would take some time for us, Bitcoin enthusiasts/ideologists/anarchists/libertarians to again build up from niche to achieve further adoption.

Governments can't kill Bitcoin, but they can definitely slow down adoption especially if it's the US government.[hypothetically]

IRS is milking Bitcoiners. Regulations are on the way.

I disagree. I would say this would wreck Bitcoin's long term prospects. What we want is mass adoption, and we can't have that when people who get caught using it get penalized. It can't get killed by bans, yes, but it won't be a new world currency (or a rocket to the moon) that people want it to be either.

The proper way to address this FUD, in my opinion, is to say that it's never going to happen. What do they get out of banning it? They don't lose anything by letting it be either. A ban is what you would expect out of totalitarian regimes, not countries with strong institutions like the US or Germany.

I see this thread is related to this : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--3482190 and even if you did not click link(it is not working),this is just FUD and nothing else.

Regarding your hypothesis about total ban to BTC from EU&USA, you probably know that they are very friendly towards BTC, especially Germany which is pretty well regulated this area.Also USA is no matter what some others might say very friendly regarding cryptocurrency,they have largest network of BTC ATMs in the world,and also places to spend BTC on various things.So they will not kill BTC,they know how much money can be made from cryptocurrency on collecting taxes,on opening up new jobs and so on.

Even if they try to do what you described smart people will be wait and not fall into the trap.I would give such scenario only 1% chance.

If the USA and EEUU (that's basically Merkel at this point) decided to ban Bitcoin, and I mean a full frontal ban, including any trading and possession of Bitcoin, it wouldn't still mean nothing in the long term.

Can these guys increase the total 21 million limit supply? no? exactly, and that is their number 1 weapon, inflation. They can ban all day long, and it wouldn't have an impact on the long term prospects of Bitcoin. It will only serve as a way to weed out weak hands that didn't deserve to hold Bitcoin in the first place. And the ironic thing is, they themselves will buy the dip, and a couple of years later when they have amassed an huge amount at cheap prices, they will legalize it again, making all the noobs FOMO back in.

Governments CAN'T kill Bitcoin, and they CAN'T kill the reasons it is desired. Get this straight and drop the FUD.