A twist on the usual copycat alt-coins

Luckybit

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Quote from: Etlase2 on April 30, 2013, 01:06:23 AM

Quote from: casascius on April 30, 2013, 12:41:03 AM

Well, yeah, assuming such a thing actually happens. It probably won't...

"Probably won't" should not be enough for people who claim to want liberty and freedom.

Quote

or if it ever does, those millions of people will want the change.

Yay, back in the same spot we're at now. This sounds great. I love how the future of bitcoin is summed up with it "probably won't" be wall street all over again.

Fuck. That.

What if it's wall street 2.0? High tech cyber wall street?

Luckybit

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Quote from: master-P on April 29, 2013, 11:50:41 PM

Just got an idea. I'll try to keep it simple.

IdeaCoin will have a new block, say, every 2 minutes. The block reward starts off as something small, like let's say 5 coins. Now instead of the block reward halving after x amount of years, it doubles or increases by a random number in a specific range. Once the block reward reaches it's peak, it starts halving or decreases by x amount. Eventually the block reward decreases where very few coins are being mined.

So basically, at the start, coins will trickle out slowly to prevent early adopters from gaining a lot of advantage over late-comers. This way a lot more people will get to know about the coin before huge amounts have already been mined. The support for the coin will be more established before a lot of coins are mined. Also, people will be expecting the block reward increase, so by then a larger pool of people could have mining rigs set up to take advantage of it.

I know it doesn't offer much innovation over Bitcoin, but I think it's a little better than the last few alt-coins that were released. Maybe I can suggest it to some of the new coins being developed.

Let me know what you guys think

Hate this idea. Rewards mediocrity. Why reward normalcy?

Tobius

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Quote from: imperi on April 30, 2013, 11:00:31 AM

Stop making new coins!!! Just contribute to Feathercoin or Litecoin, or one of the other dozen viable ones!!! You guys are being ridiculous. We don't need 100 coins.

And Feathercoin isn't one of them? Tongue

imperi

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Stop making new coins!!! Just contribute to Feathercoin or Litecoin, or one of the other dozen viable ones!!! You guys are being ridiculous. We don't need 100 coins.

Ignore@YourPeril

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Illustrating graphics for the bell curve approach, from Adrian-X: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1207805

kochmann799

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Quote from: master-P on April 29, 2013, 11:50:41 PM

Just got an idea. I'll try to keep it simple.

IdeaCoin will have a new block, say, every 2 minutes. The block reward starts off as something small, like let's say 5 coins. Now instead of the block reward halving after x amount of years, it doubles or increases by a random number in a specific range. Once the block reward reaches it's peak, it starts halving or decreases by x amount. Eventually the block reward decreases where very few coins are being mined.

So basically, at the start, coins will trickle out slowly to prevent early adopters from gaining a lot of advantage over late-comers. This way a lot more people will get to know about the coin before huge amounts have already been mined. The support for the coin will be more established before a lot of coins are mined. Also, people will be expecting the block reward increase, so by then a larger pool of people could have mining rigs set up to take advantage of it.

I know it doesn't offer much innovation over Bitcoin, but I think it's a little better than the last few alt-coins that were released. Maybe I can suggest it to some of the new coins being developed.

Let me know what you guys think

i give this a +1 and would make one myself if i had any knowledge in that area, id even call it the mastercoin ;P

Etlase2

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Quote from: casascius on April 30, 2013, 12:41:03 AM

Well, yeah, assuming such a thing actually happens. It probably won't...

"Probably won't" should not be enough for people who claim to want liberty and freedom.

Quote

or if it ever does, those millions of people will want the change.

Yay, back in the same spot we're at now. This sounds great. I love how the future of bitcoin is summed up with it "probably won't" be wall street all over again.

Fuck. That.

Atruk

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Quote from: casascius on April 30, 2013, 12:41:03 AM

Quote from: Etlase2 on April 30, 2013, 12:27:55 AM

Quote from: casascius on April 30, 2013, 12:02:26 AM

Here is my idea: wait until there's a large massive consensus that Bitcoin, for whatever reason, has somehow achieved massively unfair distribution of the coins, and that merchants will overwhelmingly be persuaded to accept a brand new altcoin since they are so angry about whatever the big holders of bitcoin happen to be doing that they want to leave btc holders holding the bag. THEN start the new altcoin, with no premine.

At that point, millions of people are defrauded by bitcoin.

Well, yeah, assuming such a thing actually happens. It probably won't... or if it ever does, those millions of people will want the change. It would be a control against a very small number of entities holding the majority of the coins and using them to disrupt the markets. Like, if Satoshi popped up and decided to do this with what must be his many coins.

Maybe such an initiative should be called Backup coin?

casascius

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Quote from: Etlase2 on April 30, 2013, 12:27:55 AM

Quote from: casascius on April 30, 2013, 12:02:26 AM

Here is my idea: wait until there's a large massive consensus that Bitcoin, for whatever reason, has somehow achieved massively unfair distribution of the coins, and that merchants will overwhelmingly be persuaded to accept a brand new altcoin since they are so angry about whatever the big holders of bitcoin happen to be doing that they want to leave btc holders holding the bag. THEN start the new altcoin, with no premine.

At that point, millions of people are defrauded by bitcoin.

Well, yeah, assuming such a thing actually happens. It probably won't... or if it ever does, those millions of people will want the change. It would be a control against a very small number of entities holding the majority of the coins and using them to disrupt the markets. Like, if Satoshi popped up and decided to do this with what must be his many coins.

CoinHoarder

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In Cryptocoins I Trust

If an ALT coin could do something good for the world, on top of being a store of value and vehicle for commerce, I think it would instantly be popular.

It makes since... we might as well put all this equipment everyone's using to good use. Otherwise, we're just polluting the planet for the sake of currency.

I'd like to solve some world problem like cancer, et al

oh.. I posted in the wrong thread lol.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/btc-miner-uses-massive-hashing-power-to-cure-cancer-190401

Etlase2

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Quote from: casascius on April 30, 2013, 12:02:26 AM

Here is my idea: wait until there's a large massive consensus that Bitcoin, for whatever reason, has somehow achieved massively unfair distribution of the coins, and that merchants will overwhelmingly be persuaded to accept a brand new altcoin since they are so angry about whatever the big holders of bitcoin happen to be doing that they want to leave btc holders holding the bag. THEN start the new altcoin, with no premine.

At that point, millions of people are defrauded by bitcoin. It deflates until the mass exodus when everyone else is left holding the bag.

Instead, creating a totally better system before that happens would be the moral obligation. See my signature for some modest suggestions.

Impaler

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Why random-walk to the maximum and not just a bell-curve distribution? Do you want to create uncertainty as to ultimate supply to reduce speculation? I don't think ultimate supply as a number really has any effect on coins, its all about how 'much' of that supply you have, how much has been made up to 'now' and how much is available to purchase vs how many new people want to get in on it.

CoinHoarder

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Quote from: master-P on April 29, 2013, 11:50:41 PM

Now instead of the block reward halving after x amount of years, it doubles or increases by a random number in a specific range. Once the block reward reaches it's peak, it starts halving or decreases by x amount. Eventually the block reward decreases where very few coins are being mined.

Don't get me wrong, I like your concept of a new innovative coin.

However, if it goes like you say... inflation until a limit is reached then deflation for the rest of time, this is not necessarily anti early adopter like I think your intentions are. Someone would only have to hoard his coins during the Inflation era, then sell in the deflation era. People that buy in during the deflation era will complain, just like people do now about established coins and their early adopters.

Atruk

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Quote from: casascius on April 30, 2013, 12:02:26 AM

I see Litecoin in its current state as fundamentally worthless. It is Bitcoin with two minor changes that are mostly trivial. Owning Litecoin is making an ill-conceived bet against Bitcoin. It's like buying your neighbor's house as a backup in case yours gets hit by a tornado.

Well scrypt is a less than trivial change as the legitimate GPU miners fleeing bitcoin for it are going to be overwhelmed by the botnet miners also fleeing bitcoin for litecoin (I guess this means I agree litecoin is a horrible hedge against bitcoin failure).

I think if someone wants to start a new cryptocurrency that makes meaningful changes like building in what seem like some of the inevitable bitcoin hardforks, this slowcoin approach would be an interesting way to get a network started without creating the problem of hoarding of unfair distribution. Your idea to start it when the grumbling happens does seem like a sound one.

A bell curve might not be the best way to do it. A better way might be to have blocks reward one or two coins to keep the network warm until a certain number of PGP (or otherwise authenticated messages) tell the network to start a bitcoin style distribution of 100 or 50 coin blocks followed by the bitcoin halving pattern.

(In this part of the country some sort of hedge against a tornado wiping out the home is a desirable thing to have though, usually it isn't the neighbor's house (litecoin) but the friend across town's ( Huh

coin))

Matthew N. Wright

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Quote from: casascius on April 30, 2013, 12:02:26 AM

It's like buying your neighbor's house as a backup in case yours gets hit by a tornado.

Rofl.

seleme

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The only point about altcoins is speculation.

But the incentive is there - when you see that week or two old coin is selling for 0.20$ then it's hard to avoid people being tempted to create and mine the one.

World's gone mad.

casascius

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Here is my idea: wait until there's a large massive consensus that Bitcoin, for whatever reason, has somehow achieved massively unfair distribution of the coins, and that merchants will overwhelmingly be persuaded to accept a brand new altcoin since they are so angry about whatever the big holders of bitcoin happen to be doing that they want to leave btc holders holding the bag. THEN start the new altcoin, with no premine.

Any altcoin in existence today will have the same perceived problem as Bitcoin if this ever gets to be an issue, so is fundamentally worthless.

I see Litecoin in its current state as fundamentally worthless. It is Bitcoin with two minor changes that are mostly trivial. Owning Litecoin is making an ill-conceived bet against Bitcoin. It's like buying your neighbor's house as a backup in case yours gets hit by a tornado.

Noitev

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Quote from: master-P on April 29, 2013, 11:50:41 PM

Just got an idea. I'll try to keep it simple.

IdeaCoin will have a new block, say, every 2 minutes. The block reward starts off as something small, like let's say 5 coins. Now instead of the block reward halving after x amount of years, it doubles or increases by a random number in a specific range. Once the block reward reaches it's peak, it starts halving or decreases by x amount. Eventually the block reward decreases where very few coins are being mined.

So basically, at the start, coins will trickle out slowly to prevent early adopters from gaining a lot of advantage over late-comers. This way a lot more people will get to know about the coin before huge amounts have already been mined. The support for the coin will be more established before a lot of coins are mined. Also, people will be expecting the block reward increase, so by then a larger pool of people could have mining rigs set up to take advantage of it.

I know it doesn't offer much innovation over Bitcoin, but I think it's a little better than the last few alt-coins that were released. Maybe I can suggest it to some of the new coins being developed.

Let me know what you guys think

I actually love this, A bell curve is a really clever idea...

Atruk

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This seems like a great way to avoid premine criticisms. new altcoins would be well advised to consider a scheme like this.

master-P

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Just got an idea. I'll try to keep it simple.

IdeaCoin will have a new block, say, every 2 minutes. The block reward starts off as something small, like let's say 5 coins. Now instead of the block reward halving after x amount of years, it doubles or increases by a random number in a specific range. Once the block reward reaches it's peak, it starts halving or decreases by x amount. Eventually the block reward decreases where very few coins are being mined.

So basically, at the start, coins will trickle out slowly to prevent early adopters from gaining a lot of advantage over late-comers. This way a lot more people will get to know about the coin before huge amounts have already been mined. The support for the coin will be more established before a lot of coins are mined. Also, people will be expecting the block reward increase, so by then a larger pool of people could have mining rigs set up to take advantage of it.

I know it doesn't offer much innovation over Bitcoin, but I think it's a little better than the last few alt-coins that were released. Maybe I can suggest it to some of the new coins being developed.

Let me know what you guys think

Topic: A twist on the usual copycat alt-coins (Read 1481 times)