According to Bill Miller, the collapse of Russia's currency is good for Bitcoin

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Quote from: Ozero on March 11, 2022, 04:38:06 AM

How the collapse of the Russian currency will affect the cryptocurrency, we will see in a while, but so far such an impact is not noticeable. Bitcoin behaves as before, its behavior corresponds to the current state of the market.

I always feel like people who say things like this are ignoring past examples and only using one example. Firstly, the collapse of ruble is not even new, it's been declining slowly ever since collapse of Soviet Union. Secondly, it's not as bad as hyperinflation that many other countries fiat already experience during Bitcoin's life.

Iran rial, or Argentina, or Venezueal. Everyone remember people saying Venezuela collapse would fuel Bitcoin there and all that? What happened now? Nothing.

Ozero

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Quote from: asus09 on March 05, 2022, 03:09:54 AM

Quote from: TravelMug on March 04, 2022, 04:47:20 AM

I guess we've seen millionaires and billionaires moving their wealth to bitcoin way before the war. it's just it's magnify again because of the recent event. Bitcoin has already proven itself to be a good hedge against inflation and you can preserve your wealth in it. So wise Russian and even Ukrainians are flocking into BTC right now, no hesitation.

Most likely Bill Miller's statement is also true, because when various countries impose sanctions on Russia, Russia will most likely use bitcoin to avoid sanctions from various countries, thus the price of bitcoin goes up again, even now the price of bitcoin goes up, like ethereum goes up. 11.56%, Doge coin also rose 8.4%, it can be concluded that what Bill Miller said is true..

If we were talking about the need to transfer a large amount of currency, then Bitcoin could in this case help Russia bypass international sanctions. But for Russia, the import and export of certain groups of goods is important. And moving it over long distances and in a large volume unnoticed will not work. The states that have sanctioned Russia for its military incursion into Ukraine will be watching and everyone who has contact with Russia will also be sanctioned.
How the collapse of the Russian currency will affect the cryptocurrency, we will see in a while, but so far such an impact is not noticeable. Bitcoin behaves as before, its behavior corresponds to the current state of the market.

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With the amount of coins that Bill Miller owns, I suspect anything he comes across is good for Bitcoin. He’s in the business of making money and right now he needs Bitcoin to go up to make money. He’s a great ally for the price go up crowd though. You can bet he’s talking with other billionaires and cornering the market. It’s investors like him that make me think Bitcoin could still go up quite a bit. With deep pockets and connections like Bill Miller has, it seems like Bitcoin has too much support behind it financially to fail.

fiulpro

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No matter what the collapse of Russian currency would bring for the government, or the millionaires who are escaping Russia and even selling their teams in UK with the government allowing them to do such things and to get out of the whole situation quite fast. Who it would impact are the citizens.
- they would be forced to switch to something else that is not in control of the government or anyone else as well so that they can maintain a stable life with visa and Mastercard halting payments and Google pay not working in most cities
- There comes bitcoins, it would not only serve as a global currency but would also save people form going broke and dying under the inflation
It might be good for bitcoins but this good doesn't really matter since it's devastating for the whole of Ukraine.

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Quote from: qwertyup23 on March 05, 2022, 05:09:34 AM

The impact of having heavy economical sanctions in a country can quite be costly- it will be relatively harder and difficult for the people in Russia to transact and purchase goods within their area. Inflation will rise and all of the costs of goods would definitely spike-up due to having scarce resources on their countries.

This is where BTC can step in. Its application can somehow support Russian citizens to purchase goods outside their country by transacting and using BTCs. I do think that BTC can have an impact to this war especially on its price.

They can use bitcoin to order stuffs online but I'm thinking if how can a delivery pass through on their country? because this Russia is now blocked for incoming and outgoing transactions. There's also talks that bitcoin transactions which came from Russia is going to be restricted, this includes some exchanges and maybe some wallet providers. They really want to make sure that Russian country would suffer and won't escape the sanctions that have been applied to them.

Bitcoin can be used in tough situations but only as an alternative to national currencies and once the situation returns to normal, I'm afraid that the use of bitcoin can become weaker.

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Quote from: BenjaminGlover on March 04, 2022, 03:55:55 AM

Quote

Bill Miller, a billionaire investor, says that Russia would likely turn to Bitcoin to reclaim control of their resources. Western sanctions have now blocked Russia's foreign exchange reserves. Bitcoin is frequently regarded as a superior "digital gold" that can partially or completely replace national currencies.

What are your thoughts and opinions on this? I would love to hear it!

I agree with what Bill Miller said about the fall in the value of the ruble, the fall in the value of the ruble made the Russian people now start to switch to buying bitcoin as their investment, and it had a significant impact on the rise in the price of bitcoin a few days ago, today concerns about the stability of fiat currencies, especially the ruble, make bitcoin a better alternative for investing their money.

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Quote from: qwertyup23 on March 05, 2022, 05:09:34 AM

Quote from: BenjaminGlover on March 04, 2022, 03:55:55 AM

Quote

Bill Miller, a billionaire investor, says that Russia would likely turn to Bitcoin to reclaim control of their resources. Western sanctions have now blocked Russia's foreign exchange reserves. Bitcoin is frequently regarded as a superior "digital gold" that can partially or completely replace national currencies.

What are your thoughts and opinions on this? I would love to hear it!

The impact of having heavy economical sanctions in a country can quite be costly- it will be relatively harder and difficult for the people in Russia to transact and purchase goods within their area. Inflation will rise and all of the costs of goods would definitely spike-up due to having scarce resources on their countries.

This is where BTC can step in. Its application can somehow support Russian citizens to purchase goods outside their country by transacting and using BTCs. I do think that BTC can have an impact to this war especially on its price.

Oil wealth countries due to the mismanagement or due to the reach for power end up losing their sovereignty. The first country to experience this in recent days Venezuela.

With Venezuela the scenario is different and improper governing body caused a big economic crisis. Slowly it looks like recovering, but the real recovery needs time. Now Russia have been experiencing out of its invasion on Ukraine. Venezuelans are well aware of bitcoin and even the small stores accept bitcoin. Maybe Russians could follow venezuelans to overcome the upcoming crisis.

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Quote from: BenjaminGlover on March 04, 2022, 03:55:55 AM

Quote

Bill Miller, a billionaire investor, says that Russia would likely turn to Bitcoin to reclaim control of their resources. Western sanctions have now blocked Russia's foreign exchange reserves. Bitcoin is frequently regarded as a superior "digital gold" that can partially or completely replace national currencies.

What are your thoughts and opinions on this? I would love to hear it!

The impact of having heavy economical sanctions in a country can quite be costly- it will be relatively harder and difficult for the people in Russia to transact and purchase goods within their area. Inflation will rise and all of the costs of goods would definitely spike-up due to having scarce resources on their countries.

This is where BTC can step in. Its application can somehow support Russian citizens to purchase goods outside their country by transacting and using BTCs. I do think that BTC can have an impact to this war especially on its price.

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Quote from: BenjaminGlover on March 04, 2022, 03:55:55 AM

Quote

Bill Miller, a billionaire investor, says that Russia would likely turn to Bitcoin to reclaim control of their resources. Western sanctions have now blocked Russia's foreign exchange reserves. Bitcoin is frequently regarded as a superior "digital gold" that can partially or completely replace national currencies.

What are your thoughts and opinions on this? I would love to hear it!

In reality, it is the economy in general that has led to the creation and use of Bitcoin. An economy that is based on debt and more and more debt, which has worked for a few decades but is heading for disaster via high inflation and in which there seems to be no clear exit situation as it is in a catch-22 situation: if central banks adopt strong liquidity restriction policies with large rate hikes, the economy goes to hell. If we continue as we have been doing so far, printing as if there were no tomorrow with some timid rate hikes from time to time and then opening our hands again when there is a bump in the economy, we are only making the bubble bigger, and bubbles end up bursting.

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Quote from: mindrust on March 05, 2022, 02:10:49 AM

Quote from: Mpamaegbu on March 05, 2022, 02:04:01 AM

~Snipped~

I thought Vitalik was advising Putin. I am pretty sure he warned Putin for this and told him to convert their reserves to ETH but somehow Putin didn't pay attention probably. Like you said now they can't access them at all. If they had ETH on their reserves they could have spent them freely. It is probably a blessing for the Ukrainians though. I also see Vitalik is supporting the Ukrainians on Twitter which is kind of confusing. Wasn't he Russian?

There's a reason most business owners are said to be shrewd. Taking critical business decisions even when it affects family tie is one of those. I believe Vitalik is firstly looking out for his business and ensuring that Ethereum benefits maximally from the ongoing crisis. Going by your comment, he sold the idea of switching foreign reserves to ETH to his native Russia (he also has dual citizenship with Canada) and then puts his emotion towards Ukraine. If Russia didn't listen to him it's only because these people don't listen until something forces them to.

Ukraine is the small guy in the battle. Naturally, the underdog tag on Ukraine makes a lot of people sympathetic to her. These people see Russia as a menacing bully. If Vitalik were one of those sympathetic to Ukraine, I don't see any problem with that.

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Quote from: TravelMug on March 04, 2022, 04:47:20 AM

I guess we've seen millionaires and billionaires moving their wealth to bitcoin way before the war. it's just it's magnify again because of the recent event. Bitcoin has already proven itself to be a good hedge against inflation and you can preserve your wealth in it. So wise Russian and even Ukrainians are flocking into BTC right now, no hesitation.

Most likely Bill Miller's statement is also true, because when various countries impose sanctions on Russia, Russia will most likely use bitcoin to avoid sanctions from various countries, thus the price of bitcoin goes up again, even now the price of bitcoin goes up, like ethereum goes up. 11.56%, Doge coin also rose 8.4%, it can be concluded that what Bill Miller said is true..

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Quote from: Mpamaegbu on March 05, 2022, 02:04:01 AM

But of course, there's nothing much anyone can do if the milk is already spilled. Russia didn't think fast on that one to convert her foreign reserves to Bitcoin before it's freezed. Now it can't be accessible. It's like expecting to move money out from a banned/restricted bank account.

I thought Vitalik was advising Putin. I am pretty sure he warned Putin for this and told him to convert their reserves to ETH but somehow Putin didn't pay attention probably. Like you said now they can't access them at all. If they had ETH on their reserves they could have spent them freely. It is probably a blessing for the Ukrainians though. I also see Vitalik is supporting the Ukrainians on Twitter which is kind of confusing. Wasn't he Russian?

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Quote from: kryptqnick on March 04, 2022, 08:23:44 AM

and it's not like using Bitcoin will help unfreeze their reserves, which are blocked by Western sanctions.

But of course, there's nothing much anyone can do if the milk is already spilled. Russia didn't think fast on that one to convert her foreign reserves to Bitcoin before it's freezed. Now it can't be accessible. It's like expecting to move money out from a banned/restricted bank account.

Like Miller, I also expect that the ongoing war would be good for Bitcoin to soar because people are going to switch over to it as a safe Haven. However, I'm yet to notice much spike on Bitcoin ATM. Perhaps, that will be evident in days to come as the sanction begins to bite the Russians deeper.

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Quote from: DapanasFruit on March 04, 2022, 04:02:41 AM

Quote from: BenjaminGlover on March 04, 2022, 03:55:55 AM

Quote

Bill Miller, a billionaire investor, says that Russia would likely turn to Bitcoin to reclaim control of their resources. Western sanctions have now blocked Russia's foreign exchange reserves. Bitcoin is frequently regarded as a superior "digital gold" that can partially or completely replace national currencies.

What are your thoughts and opinions on this? I would love to hear it!

There is a strong possibility that Russia can be using Bitcoin to go around the economic sanctions that it is facing right now and into the future. However, we have to understand that all of these things had have been planned ahead by Putin as he is a truly smart though now so ruthless politician, tactician and a warrior. Another aspect that we should look at is that there can be a China-Russia axis as a result of this because China could not live without the oil from Russia...and if you look at it now even USA have not yet cut off the oil ties with Russia and all that we hear of strong speeches coming from White House is lacking the teeth and all because under Biden they forego of energy independence because of the pressure coming from the left-leaning Democrats. The way it is now, sadly it is Putin's game and should we be celebrating if he will decide to make Bitcoin so legal in his country once and for all?

Putin clearly miscalculated the results of the attack on Ukraine. Many warned him about this, but he did not heed these advices. Now he has led Russia into a big dead end, from which there is simply no way out. Because of this, Russia will soon be thrown back in development to the level of secondary countries. And it is "the smart, ruthless politician, tactician and warrior Putin" who will be to blame for this. And at the same time a murderer and a war criminal.
When Putin realizes that he lost in Ukraine, if he does not die, he will try to disappear, and the citizens of Russia will have to live with this shame, and even the next generations of Russians will have to pay for this war. Well, it's their choice.
Cryptocurrency will not be able to help Russia avoid international sanctions, since they are multifaceted and also relate to the ban on the import and export of certain groups of goods. If someone violates the ban and enters into trade deals with Russia, he himself will risk falling under sanctions.
As for energy carriers from Russia, the United States is now preparing the next package of sanctions, which may concern the imposition of an embargo on Russian gas and oil. These sanctions may be the most destructive for Russia.

LeviOrwell

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I think bitcoin has a chance only if the dollar completely collapses, Russia this is just a blip, and now is the time for bitcoin to defeat the financial oligarchs that control the world.

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Exactly what I was thinking too as Russia economy keeps cramping and the nation are draining of cash, Bitcoin may be their best solution. With new sanctions been announced everyday, Putin hasn't even slow down invading nor shaken a bit, I think the man has a strategic plan in beating that.

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Quote from: BenjaminGlover on March 04, 2022, 03:55:55 AM

Quote

Bill Miller, a billionaire investor, says that Russia would likely turn to Bitcoin to reclaim control of their resources. Western sanctions have now blocked Russia's foreign exchange reserves. Bitcoin is frequently regarded as a superior "digital gold" that can partially or completely replace national currencies.

What are your thoughts and opinions on this? I would love to hear it!

^ It is possible since BTC is decentralized and no one controls it, it will probably have good news for us and will increase the price of BTC sooner or later.
BTC is good for alternate currency and this is now, BTC is useful when it comes to this but the question is how they will purchase BTC if their banks and their foreign exchange reserves were banned from all financial transactions. BTC is the best choice is all kinds of payment online, this will realize to them how important BTC and it could be after the war their government announces the legalities of BTC.

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Quote from: coolcoinz on March 04, 2022, 05:16:59 PM

Quote from: mk4 on March 04, 2022, 04:09:07 AM

It's certainly "good" in a way that Russians will be able to move out of the already crashed Russian Rubble or to be ready for potential situations such as this, or for some people to finally realize that bitcoin is made for situations such as this. That not because your local currency is doing "fine" currently, doesn't mean that it will be fine forever.

But will they really? If their state could ban facebook today, who's to say if tomorrow they won't do the same to bitcoin exchanges. You can never be sure of anything if you live in that crazy country.
For instance, they banned fiat exchange to foreign currencies and decided that if you receive money from abroad you have to exchange 80% of it back to ruble. You can't get cash out of ATMs because they're empty and services like youtube won't pay you for videos because SWIFT doesn't work. If it happened to me I'd simply try to get out of the country, but there's very little places Russians can go that will still allow them to fly, or that won't turn them back at the border.

it is your own prerogative what you will do in this situation. with btc, you have other options to exchange it later on because you can easily send it to anywhere in the world and get your fiat back in return. maybe with the help of your relatives or colleagues outside. and since crypto is not going away, it will be a good avenue for these people when their own fiat is crumbling.
and we are witnessing that crypto is now being used to donate in ukraine. this is somewhat safe means of donation in this time of war crisis.

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Quote from: DapanasFruit on March 04, 2022, 04:02:41 AM

There is a strong possibility that Russia can be using Bitcoin to go around the economic sanctions that it is facing right now and into the future.

If Russia uses Bitcoin, it will trigger USA and other countries in Europe to be against Bitcoin. It won't be good for the future of Bitcoin, USA and many other countries may ban Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies because they are used by Russia to recover their economic sector. I don't expect Bitcoin will have an end soon because of this war.

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Quote from: mk4 on March 04, 2022, 04:09:07 AM

It's certainly "good" in a way that Russians will be able to move out of the already crashed Russian Rubble or to be ready for potential situations such as this, or for some people to finally realize that bitcoin is made for situations such as this. That not because your local currency is doing "fine" currently, doesn't mean that it will be fine forever.

But will they really? If their state could ban facebook today, who's to say if tomorrow they won't do the same to bitcoin exchanges. You can never be sure of anything if you live in that crazy country.
For instance, they banned fiat exchange to foreign currencies and decided that if you receive money from abroad you have to exchange 80% of it back to ruble. You can't get cash out of ATMs because they're empty and services like youtube won't pay you for videos because SWIFT doesn't work. If it happened to me I'd simply try to get out of the country, but there's very little places Russians can go that will still allow them to fly, or that won't turn them back at the border.

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Indeed it's a gain for Bitcoin as the elite and rich Russians would convert their savings into Bitcoin due to uncertainty and fall of Russian Ruble and this conversion of asset to bitcoin will come back to them with a good appreciation if the market is good and moreover even if the Ruble falls even further then those who have converted it into bitcoin would have more even when they cashout.

Elites will be able to get benefitted by this but what about poors or the one who don't have additional funds like the elites, they will still be suffering, i think it's bit embarrassing to focus on bitcoin's gain due to war when this war has brought misery for millions.

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I feel that the Ruble has just temporarily collapsed and will recover in the near future which has already helped BTC rise upwards though it hasn't managed to breach the $50K mark yet.

Putin won't be able to drag this war for much longer for economical, financial etc reasons which is why he is trying his best to make Ukraine submit asap who aren't showing any signs of giving up.

Whatever the outcome, BTC will continue bouncing up and down, but won't breach its ATH in my opinion.

mindrust

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Some people will indeed see bitcoin as a safe haven when the Ruble collapses. People will look for a stable currency. Some will adopt gold, some will adopt crypto, maybe some are already holding some physical USD/EUR. Anything is better than RUB right now. Maybe not real estate because you know nobody would want to buy real estate from a country that's in war.

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Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on March 04, 2022, 05:11:12 AM

I can't find any information in English to give you a better understanding, but I think with the help of an interpreter you can read Russia's sentiment towards bitcoin.
Despite the sanctions that Russia has received from the world, the central bank's attitude towards bitcoin has not changed.

https://www.interfax.ru/business/826014
https://forklog.com/tsb-rf-ne-smyagchil-otnoshenie-k-bitkoinu-na-fone-sanktsij/

First link from Google Translate and I believe this part was very clear "The use of digital currencies as a means of payment on the territory of the Russian Federation will continue to be prohibited."

And quote from second link

Quote

The Bank of Russia still advocates a complete ban on the circulation and mining of cryptocurrencies.

I see what you are saying, So, all this still clearly shows that Russia might not be anywhere near that approval or adoption yet.

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I thought it was interesting at first as a philosophical question, but by the time I'd read all the pseudo economists on social media circa 2017 chest-thumping about Bitcoin maximalism and how the crypto empire would reign in the ashes of fiat -- while of course probably never actually using Bitcoin other than to hold in expensive custodial solutions -- I think that the economy always harms regular people first. And for as long as regular people use Bitcoin, their first thought when facing financial ruin isn't to go out and buy more Bitcoin to hoard. If anything, any Bitcoin they might have would be going toward putting food on the table, roof over head. That's what I'd do (and in some ways already have done).

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Russia still has some operational banks, and it's not like using Bitcoin will help unfreeze their reserves, which are blocked by Western sanctions. But as the situation becomes more dire and sanctions are strengthening, it might be the only solution for Russia, both regular people and government officials. Of course, selling their wealth for fiat would prove very difficult through any reputable means, and I don't think Russia will go as far as full crypto adoption. Bitcoin requires infrastructure, digital literacy, and also requires admitting, basically, that ruble, their local fiat, is collapsing. Admitting it would be admitting that they're losing, at least economically, and that what's happening now is a hit on Russian economy that it never faced before. So they'll pull lots of resources into making it look like ruble is holding up, at least for people who live in Russia. That's why I don't think they'll officially abandon it and fully adopt Bitcoin or any other crypto as a national currency.

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Can't say right now on what Russia is strategizing but it's likely a win-win situation for Bitcoin if they legalized it considering how low the Rubble got. We don't know what's Putin plan ahead of all these because somehow we know that he'd expect sanctions over his actions, better be it for the best of all.

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Quote from: BenjaminGlover on March 04, 2022, 03:55:55 AM

Quote

Bill Miller, a billionaire investor, says that Russia would likely turn to Bitcoin to reclaim control of their resources. Western sanctions have now blocked Russia's foreign exchange reserves. Bitcoin is frequently regarded as a superior "digital gold" that can partially or completely replace national currencies.

What are your thoughts and opinions on this? I would love to hear it!

Bitcoin can support Russian economy - possible!
Bitcoin can replace Rubble - impossible

It is very much possible for Russia is adopt bitcoin post war days to take its economy back in track due to various sanctions. They can even encourage mining activities within their territory to fight the bad times.

But if there is a question of replacing rubble, that's not going to happen! Russia has several resources available that are valuable to the rest of the world. So Russia can simply stop accepting any other currencies except Rubble for any export.

dothebeats

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For now, at least. Russians will have to convert their riches into something else, and as of the moment bitcoin offers a great opportunity for them. Those with huge investments affected by the war will certainly do everything to save their assets, and the easiest they can get their hands on is bitcoin.

No one wants that conflict to happen, but one way or another it has to happen, and bitcoin just so happens to benefit somewhat from this war.

giammangiato

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At this point, anything is possible! It could be a good opportunity for the cryptocurrency world, the revenge for all the bad things that the great investors of the classic markets have said so far. On the one hand, I am very sorry for the people who are risking their lives right now, for those who have died and for the environmental disasters caused by this crap called war.

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These things are showing that now the world is coming on the platform of cryptocurrencies. If there is no hope so the hope is Bitcoin.

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It'd make people realize at the very least how Bitcoin can save you from a collapsing currency, that is if they can even realize it in the first place. That was probably why some rich people weren't really afraid of what the war could bring to their economy, since they can just use Bitcoin to save the value of their assets. I still don't think it's going to be of any help in Russia trying to salvage their economy though, it'd be at most, a helpful asset for the rich to still be rich.

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I can't find any information in English to give you a better understanding, but I think with the help of an interpreter you can read Russia's sentiment towards bitcoin.
Despite the sanctions that Russia has received from the world, the central bank's attitude towards bitcoin has not changed.

https://www.interfax.ru/business/826014
https://forklog.com/tsb-rf-ne-smyagchil-otnoshenie-k-bitkoinu-na-fone-sanktsij/

TravelMug

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I guess we've seen millionaires and billionaires moving their wealth to bitcoin way before the war. it's just it's magnify again because of the recent event. Bitcoin has already proven itself to be a good hedge against inflation and you can preserve your wealth in it. So wise Russian and even Ukrainians are flocking into BTC right now, no hesitation.

mk4

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It's certainly "good" in a way that Russians will be able to move out of the already crashed Russian Rubble or to be ready for potential situations such as this, or for some people to finally realize that bitcoin is made for situations such as this. That not because your local currency is doing "fine" currently, doesn't mean that it will be fine forever.

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Quote from: BenjaminGlover on March 04, 2022, 03:55:55 AM

Quote

Bill Miller, a billionaire investor, says that Russia would likely turn to Bitcoin to reclaim control of their resources. Western sanctions have now blocked Russia's foreign exchange reserves. Bitcoin is frequently regarded as a superior "digital gold" that can partially or completely replace national currencies.

What are your thoughts and opinions on this? I would love to hear it!

There is a strong possibility that Russia can be using Bitcoin to go around the economic sanctions that it is facing right now and into the future. However, we have to understand that all of these things had have been planned ahead by Putin as he is a truly smart though now so ruthless politician, tactician and a warrior. Another aspect that we should look at is that there can be a China-Russia axis as a result of this because China could not live without the oil from Russia...and if you look at it now even USA have not yet cut off the oil ties with Russia and all that we hear of strong speeches coming from White House is lacking the teeth and all because under Biden they forego of energy independence because of the pressure coming from the left-leaning Democrats. The way it is now, sadly it is Putin's game and should we be celebrating if he will decide to make Bitcoin so legal in his country once and for all?

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Quote

Bill Miller, a billionaire investor, says that Russia would likely turn to Bitcoin to reclaim control of their resources. Western sanctions have now blocked Russia's foreign exchange reserves. Bitcoin is frequently regarded as a superior "digital gold" that can partially or completely replace national currencies.

What are your thoughts and opinions on this? I would love to hear it!

Topic: According to Bill Miller, the collapse of Russia's currency is good for Bitcoin (Read 221 times)