Topic: Active Shooting at Pittsburgh Synagogue 7+ dead already (Read 1072 times)

Tribalism is not limited to religion.

The issue is tribalism.  It does not matter if you are Muslim, Jew, Christian or White Supremacist,  your ideology is supremacist because it assumes you are automatically better than anyone else who does not belong to your group.

Tribal ideologies, group victimization is at play here.  When the subject is mentally unstable due to his religious or political delusion this type of thinking can very quickly lead to violence.

Instead, he should have lobbied to tax the religious institutions.  This lost tax revenue would easily pay to secure the border.

There are a lot of people willing to call this guy a white supremacist, criminal terrorist (me for one!) or as Republicans call him a moderate!!

I am happy to call all religious zealots and fundamentals mentally disturbed.  I am also happy to call anyone a criminal if they are one!

Not Media reporting- Cheer Leading- when it comes to such a terrible incident.
It's sad that this kind of attack happens, on the other hand, I was relieved that it was not carried by a Muslim person. we all know how that road ends. at least after this event, another soul will not get hurt because of their skin color and religion.

Believe me bro I will not deny this even in my wildest dream. but I know we both don't know each other's story so that's fine and you are entitled to say what you want. wrong or right? that's another discussion but will respect your opinion
And truth changes according to demographics. The clash always occurs between our truth vs someone else truth. and result? Innocent suffer always. we call this collateral damage.

Well, we are seeing lots of misdirected individuals. remember the Kansas shooting?  


100% agree with you but I am guessing you missed my point? maybe I didn't conveyed my thoughts clearly. English is not my 1st, 2nd or 3rd language so I am sorry for that confusion. please allow me to add a few things hope this will clear things then would like to know your valuable thought.

1. Muslim man kills = He's terrorist
2. Black man Kills = He's Criminal
3. White man Kills= Oh he's just a mentally disturbed


Agreed on the bigger picture and let me add one thing bluntly without any political correctness. our opinions don't matter, it always stays in the drawing room during discussion or to some extent Candle march. in the end, its all come to establishments (Politicians, so-called intellectuals/Media) they set the narrative and masses follow them.

Holy fucking shit, I missed the little onion in the lower corner at first and thought...

People died you POS. And you come out here with your "Muslims are called terrorists because of media reporting" BS.

Islamist ideology is a breeding ground for terrorists.  You can deny all you want, but that is the truth.

As for this mass murderer, he misdirected his anger and shot innocent people who had nothing to do with the Caravan of people in Mexico.  Even if they did, so what?  

He should be angry at the US government for not closing the Mexico-US border and stopping accepting all new refugee applications.  Mexico should be handling these refugees if they want to.  If they are refugees, they are refugees on the Mexican as well as on the US side of the border.  It is not like they magically became refugees then they crossed the US border.  They might be refugees when they left their home countries.  Most of them are just economic, illegal migrants.  

Last time I checked Mexico signed the UN refugee convention:
https://treaties.un.org/pages/ShowMTDSGDetails.aspx?src=UNTSONLINE&tabid=2&mtdsg_no=V-5&chapter=5&lang=en#Participants

The US should temporarily stop accepting any new refugee applications until they figure out how to secure their borders, IMHO.

That's a gimme... only mentally disturbed people shoot up a place of worship with an assault rifle... sane people don't do this

Not all mentally disturbed people go on a killing spree, but all people who go on a killing spree are mentally disturbed

When I saw the topic, I immediately knew that perpetrator is not Muslim. Because of the keywords like "Terror and Terrorist" were missing. Another mass shooting carried by so-called Nutjob or Individual. I am not surprised if after some days news floating around that perpetrator is mentally disturbed.

If you need more guns just to feel safe, then you are not living in a safe place.

The military is never deployed because it's never been needed...  You're kind of proving my point hehe, thanks!  But in the hypothetical you need to arm yourselves because a tyrannical government needs to be overthrown (that's a main reason why you guys all need guns according to you).  Why wouldn't that corrupt tyrannical government deploy the military to beat its enemy?



So regulating a drug that can only hurt the person taking it is fine because it's lethal but military assault weapons and hand guns that hurt other people (because of mentally unstable people not responsible gun owners) don't you dare take those away from me.  You might be surprised to find that I completely agree with you that lethal things should be regulated, I just include assault rifles and hand guns as being far more lethal than heroin, especially for people who chose to not use heroin!


Your new dictator has a few hundred drones and the air force and marines and all the military to use against your 100 million citizens.  As a bystander I would put my money on the military.


Thanks for being reasonable, not everyone here can say the same thing unfortunately!

Also don't blame RUSSIA  your electoral college picked trumps so how can it be fixed?  I would see who is on that board maybe the illuminati ..
Well lots of tax breaks ..

We can all have our reasons why we like trumps my reason was clean the scumbags out  because until you do you will always have bad POLITICS..
What will bad politics do ?  CORRECT the reason why you have this thread..

Blame the DEMS  100%  scumbags and have many many secret service dudes in their pockets SCRUB IT WITH BLEACH  like clinton done with her EMAILS ..

The CNN are saying because people say lock her up and this is why we have terror in many forms    WHAT A JOKER ..

No CNN needs closing down for being a RATS CLUB..  then a guy called phil mudd<< fits him perfect  dirty rat  comes on saying he has had 25 years of service

Yes i bet he as for the CRONIES  he looks like one him self a RAT  never been on the field i bet just an office ..

He looks a little snake  doing dirty deeds for his own pockets little rat..

I thinks we the people need to clean all our homes from all the stinking scum greedy RATS..

My bad. It's been about a year or so since I posted here religiously, it wasn't a deal when this used to be the Wild West of the forum. I was actually under the impression this only applies to one offs and one liners; I will make sure to mind the rule in the future. Thank you sir!


Please see here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege


Again, you would be surprised what a few motivated people with the right hardware can do. Also, it is important to note that the military is rarely if ever deployed against citizens in the US. It would be an escalation of local law enforcement agencies, with local police responding initially. That would escalate to the FBI and ATF eventually. The hardware at that level is formidable, but also attainable by common citizens. That leaves training, and at the highest levels, they (citizenry) would be as trained if not more so than the average non Special Forces soldier. Combat skills are teachable, and training can be purchased in the private sector.  And the shit you can get as a private citizen isn't that much less lethal that mil spec equipment.

I could have the same gear, training and comparable hardware to a common infantry unit here with an investment in time and effort. So no, think of those "farmers with rifles" as armed paramilitary groups.


Okie. Heroin was designed as a painkiller. But it's currently ravaging our low income areas with lethal effect. And the laws and regulations around this substance reflect that potential lethality. Like cars. And fireworks. Intended purpose does not always define use. So regulation and legislation fills that vacuum.


Fuck it, why not?

And a fun fact: there are at best like 6 million law enforcement officers and military peeps nationwide. Compared to 100 million registered gun owners.

We lurvs our guns here in good ole 'Murica.

@Hellfish I went back and merged those two back to back posts into one big ass post, and deleted the second one. Again my bad

I figured it out   it's all a conspiracy..And i know who done it ..

The place the killings happened was on squirrel hill    and MR trump has a squirrel on his head  and what do squirrels like ? YES NUTS  so a guy was sent to go nuts in a place of worship on squirrel hill  AND who doesn't like MR TRUMPS?  yes JEFF SESSIONS ..

NOW THAT'S A CONSPIRACY ..

Who says you can't? And why would you limit yourself to a minivan?

https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/operational-tank-for-sale-armslist/

Dude please stop multi-posting.  Please edit your posts to include responses to multiple posts if need be.


No offense but if you think that the tanks and air force that a dictators military force would be able to unleash is countered by a bunch of farmers with a few rifles and hand guns then that doesn't say much about the confidence in your military.


The car isn't engineered and designed to kill people, let alone that being it's ONLY purpose for existing.  You literally couldn't pick a more apples to oranges comparison.

Why can't I have a 50cal mounted to the roof of my mini van, cars hurt more people than roof mounted machine guns!

I feel as though you didn't read me right on your first pass. I'm as pro gun as you. Just anti lobby and pro common sense legislation. Let me fisk your points...


No, I dont think the NRA busted a cap in anyone's ass. However, they have been espousing some pro violence shit lately (I'll dig up the quotes if you ask nice) and yes, they are largely responsible for hamstringing gun legislation that would affect the baseline sale of guns. This is a known fact, and demonstrable. I mean, think about it. Legislation hurts sales. Less sales = less money. There is a reason why the NRA spends over 100 million annually to keep gun culture alive. Its profitable.

And funny you should mention insane folks + NRA. They recently lobbied to remove reporting requiring the SSA to report certain mentally disabled beneficiaries to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System. Which Trump dutifully signed into Law. Please see here:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-joint-resolution/40/actions


The fact that one has to defend themself is indeed unfortunate. Yes, I sincerely hope that no one needs to use a gun. But if they do, then Thank God we have the liberties with guns that we do now. Again, pro gun here. But also Christian. Dont like violence, that's not WWJD.


It's like you want me to be anti gun, but I'm not...

No, I was saying that in mass casualty events, it's always take a person with a gun. You know, cuz guns dont shoot themselves. I am trying to relate that guns aren't dangerous, crazy motherfuckers with guns are dangerous. Could I have said this differently? That's a serious question.

And finally, I come from a family of gun collectors and sport men. We have been using guns responsibly for many generations, and I hope to pass my collection along to my child before I leave this Earth. I am the furthest thing from a gun grabber. But the laws need to change my friend. Dont know how old you are, but I promise you this shit was not like this when you were growing up.


The fact that it has not happened does not mean we should tie our hands against the future. I would rather work out the kinks than throw the baby out with the bathwater.

If we took licensing more seriously (thorough testing, more extensive background checks), essentially it would resemble your paradigm of only the military having assault rifles, except trained and vetted civilians would be able to have them as well.

Honestly, in rural scenarios, you would be amazed at what a small group of well armed people can do against a government. Leo's dont function so well in non urban environments, only the military. If rural America suddenly said fuck it, we secede, it would actually be pretty difficult to contain. It's not a few citizens; virtually everyone in my community has multiple guns, at least one long gun and one hand gun. I mean that literally. I live between two farms

But ARs are part of sporting and collecting culture as well. Not trying to engage in whataboutism, but consider the car. Has caused considerably more damage through misuse than guns have historically. Given how ubiquitous they are, we have evolved a very thorough system of testing and certification, and the use of civil liability, to ensure that those that use said tools are qualified to do so safely. That level of care needs to be applied to gun laws.

Start off by restricting guns to those convicted of domestic violence. They commit a tremendous amount of gun violence, more so than the mentally infirm.

I would like to have a working tank and a roof mounted 50 cal on my mini van.  Lots of people are responsible enough to own these devices so I demand one as my right to bear arms (LOL jk I'm not American).

Lots of countries have figured out the balance.  Hunting is a sport but not a sport where you need a fucking assault rifle or even a hand gun.  Those 2 weapons are designed to do one thing only, kill a human.  They literally have no other purpose on the planet and would never exist if we didn't need to kill other people.

Generally countries agree that military weapons should not be in the hands of civilians no matter how many people can use them safely, it's just safer for EVERYONE if these weapons are not in civilians hands.

Now as far as the laws are shit without firepower.  How many times have you guys needed to revolt against your government with civilian firearms since independence?  How many other democracy's have had to have their citizens revolt against a tyrannic take over. If you had a president that tried to become president for life   do you think the commanders and entire military would roll over and bend the knee.  If he did control the military do you think a few citizens armed with AR-15's and hand guns are going to present much resistance to the best military on the planet???

So, the NRA caused all the mass shootings?  The NRA advocates for certifiably insane people to be allowed firearms?  Last I heard, the NRA is lobbying group advocating for the civil liberties of it's members.  Please prove me wrong.



One's ability to defend him/her self is unfortunate?



WTF are you trying to say?  People with guns do 100% of the killing?  People with guns kill people 100% of the time?  Regardless, both are obviously wrong, making that a stupid statement on multiple levels. 



Be careful what you ask for.  If some kind of test is imposed I'll wager you're likely to fail it.

A liberal on guns:

Heya peeps, GB here. If you dont know me, nutshell is I'm an American Black Southern Evangelical Liberal. Actually moderate. Grew up with guns. Read my old posts for more insight.

Guns aren't the problem. The gun lobby is (read NRA). A gun is a tool, for obtaining food, entertainment, and unfortunately, self defense. When I see a mass casualty event, one thing is invariably true for each and every single occurence:

The shooter is batshit crazy. And has access to legal guns.

I hate to be cliche, but guns dont kill people. People with guns do 100% of the time. We need stronger laws to determine who and who shouldn't be allowed to have guns. The founders, fleeing an oppressive and violent government, understand that citizens need military force in a truly democratic society. Laws mean shit if you don't have the firepower to back them up, and that rings true for both the citizen and the government. Do people need assault rifles? In most cases, no. Besides the legit firearm enthusiast, there is nothing you can hunt (save other people with ARs) that requires that much stopping power. Should they be illegal? Fuck naw. Because there are folks that are sane enough and responsible enough to enjoy these devices without posing a danger to the public. We should not be punished for the behavior of the lowest common denominator.

But on the same hand, things must change. I'd be disgenuine if I pretended like the US doesn't have a problem that other countries without guns dont. But I think there is a middle, reasoned approach that can reduce arbitrary violence.

Nope. I said no such thing. You are attributing your own problems with reading comprehension to me.

Yes yes yes. We have already narrowed the problem down to the evil ~10% Hispanic residents of the US. It sounds like they perhaps don't commit murders themselves (no statistics to support any significant deviation from average there) but are somehow corrupting the rest of the population to be 8 times more violent.

But it can't possibly be a result of the US having about as many guns as the rest of the world combined. That would be too easy.

Imagine the disappointment if the wall ever gets built but mass shootings continue and the murder rate continues to be off the charts. We'll have no choice but to blame Canadians then.

Corporate Propaganda

Every democratic 1st world country figured this shit out a few generations ago but there is WAY to much money spent on brainwashing Americans into believing the left wing radical Mexicans are coming to kill them!

Here is a fact - if one doesn't own or has possesion of a gun, they can't commit a mass shooting. Another fact - the opposite is also true. In a country where millions are able to buy guns as easily as cotton candy there are bound to be nutjobs that will commit these attrocities. And while it is tragic every time, I can't believe that so many people in US are unable to make the connection and demand that something is done about it.

You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true, facts schmacks!

Techshare doesn't even understand the words he uses, for example he claimed I should look at per capita homicides by countries.  When I informed him that the US has approx 8X the firearms homicide rate he turned around and said it was because there are 10X more people in the US than CAN....

How can you argue with someone like that???

It's a comparison of OECD, 1st world, developed nations. It's a pretty standard list of countries to use when comparing things like health, disease, wages, wealth, unemployment, crime, education, etc. I understand you don't like it because it doesn't fit your narrative, but that doesn't change the facts.



If you want to use that one, that's fine. It's worth noting, however:

Honduras - massive amounts of gang violence and illegal drug trade, almost complete impunity and lack of justice,
Venezuela - under a brutal dictatorship, with ongoing economic crisis, hyperinflation and famine
El Salzavor - human rights abuse, massive amounts of gang violence, illegal drug trade and human trafficking
etc. etc.

Please realize that comparing the US to these countries and saying "Hey, at least we are not as bad as those guys", when you are over 25 times worse than every other 1st world country on the planet, makes your argument weaker, not stronger.

You're wrong because my opinion > than your facts!


The answer to gun violence is clearly MOAR guns.  Even better if the average citizen is armed with military weapons designed with the single purpose of killing another human being!!!!

The country has been independent for 200+ years. It's a bit late to advocate for that now although nothing wrong with it I guess.

But other words matter too.

Christian Nationalist
White Nationalist

Are "Christian" and "White" names of countries or perhaps they give a different meaning to the word?

If anyone can get weapon in USA, here we can see the results. In USA something like this happen several times each year. For example, in Australia, which is also quite large country, you do not hear something similar. 

Do you have a definition for "nationalist" that differs from mine?  Or are you claiming that Democrats don't advocate for our country?

Pittsburgh Synagogue Shooter Identified As Christian Nationalist Robert Bowers
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2018/10/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooter-identified-as-christian-nationalist-robert-bower/

Gee, he was a Christian and a "Nationalist" (republican/alt-right?)

I'm shocked... who could have ever guessed such a thing?

Amazing how well Occam's Razor works

"Occam's razor is the problem-solving principle that the simplest solution tends to be the correct one. When presented with competing hypotheses to solve a problem, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions."

The political reaction in here and in the media reminds me of this video from 2008.

This is just so sad, USA needs to review their gun laws.

The way US government defines Hispanic or Latino as "a person of Spanish culture or origin regardless of race". That's not something I invented. You said yourself they're "often classified as white". In the US 11.3% of 17% total are white.

So again - are those "cultural and racial differences" of ~10% Hispanic/Latino (US 11.3% vs Canada's 1.3%) really responsible for the massive difference in firearms homicides?


I don't think I said it's a racist thing but if the shoe fits - wear it.

So Hispanics and Latinos are nothing but a white ethnic group now? I don't know if they would agree. It seems pretty commonly accepted they are part of "minority groups". Also this "making people look bad" is a pure projection of your own creation. I raised the fact that cultural and racial differences result in more violence, and this is not something more culturally homogeneous nations have to deal with. I raised the point that the USA is more diverse than Canada, then backed it up with statistics.

You have to try to cast this as a racist thing because you have no other good argument, and attacking rather than debating is all you know.

The 17% is across all races. White Hispanics is 11.3%.

But ok. Take Hispanics out of US firearms homicide counts. Does that make it look like Canada? Not even close.

Which white ethnic group you're gonna try next? Russians? Italians? Those damn Sopranos must be killing lots of people and making the US look bad.

It makes a difference because if you notice Hispanic/Laino is not on that list, meaning they weren't even counted by those numbers (or counted as white)... meaning we have at least 17% more minorities.

The US already has far more guns (per capita and in absolute numbers) than any other country. Why hasn't that fixed things?

And who could possibly still want a gun and not have one yet? Why wouldn't they just go to the nearest Walmart and get one?

More guns would definitely fix things.

For example, every "gun free zone" that attracts a maniac looking for a soft target could become a "make my day zone".

What is your problem with that, if any?

He was a right wing extremist nut job, denying that seems rather impossible...

You deleted my post once and i looked and it said it was off topic    but i was talking about politics something you know nothing of  SO from that day on i never ever look why you delete my post  because i will just take no notice  ..

So just delete because I don't care  I will say what i want and no one will stop me NOT EVEN YOU ..

You have an agenda your own thoughts  and they are bullshit   I fire laser beam dreams    you fire blanks..

And what difference does that make?

Thanks hellfish for being my secretary  nice little office worker you are  ..I wonder if you could wipe my arse

And you wipe your mouth it's full of pooooooooo .. CRAZY DEM SUPPORTER ..

And carrying on from above  the RICH ELITE pay politicians kickbacks and backhanders   to make total capitalism happen because they don't want to share..

If i was in power you would have no chance of getting away with it no chance ..Take your company but you will not be allowed on our markets if you don't pay the taxes
like poor mary earning £300 and getting taxed 25%  but massive companies paying 00.1% and they suck all the monies up ..

Only so much the government put out and if the elite suck it all up then not much left for everyone else ..  that will cause people to go crazy in many forms stealing murder
mental health   SO  blame those GREEDY people who don't like to share..

It's a damn good thing white people don't count as immigrants...

It's you who is the retard..

I blame total capitalism   and the fact USA have many many guns there will be so many nut cases who thinks life is so poo that some thinks i will take some with me..

See USA say the words SOCIALISM like it's really bad   when they don't know what it mean 1 bit..

Capitalism will always be here because how do you have shops if no capitalism?..Everyone needs to capitalize to even give some back out..

Socialism means you capitalize then take more in taxes back off those who capitalized and give it for things like police army the poor roads schools..

Total capitalism means those that capitalize don't want to pay any taxes meaning less police less everything that your public needs who cannot afford stuffs..

Also means your streets go the ruin your city becomes a shit dump  while the rich live on many acres of land with trespassers will be shot OR buy an island so no one can go on it only who they choose..

Venezuela is not socialism    they have all the riches they need   they are getting stopped from selling their stuffs OR they could easy afford to buy everyone anything they wanted..  SO  stop talking poo  SOCIALISM  no it's not dictatorship  plus getting stopped from selling what they have to sell..
The elite have got everyone thinking SOCIALISM means that your lives will be really bad  but what they mean is less "SHARING"  but got you all thinking that sharing is being like Venezuela..

And because the USA don't want to share  those that have nothing that struggle in life your going to get some that will go really nuts..

Cocktail of guns   total capitalism   religion in many forms   the news lies for an agenda    that will make quite a few people go really crazy ..

And the point is don't you thinks these people in power know what will happen if you take funding from certain things THEY KNOW THE OUTCOME  but don't care as long as they get fed and their families do well  ..WE the masses are just cannon fodder..

NO MORE  bums..