Address Reuse - Does No One Care? | Bitcointalksearch.org

khaled0111

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Quote from: FrueGreads on November 04, 2017, 05:32:03 PM

Quote from: mcb5181 on November 04, 2017, 02:59:39 PM

Bitcoin is not news to me, but I've never really looked into precisely how it works. I've been researching Bitcoin for a few days now and came across the idea that transaction addresses should only be used once. However, I have also noticed that some developers that have websites which provide services like QR code generation DO have the same address listed for donation. Apparently it is feasible to have a script that generates a random address for each donation. So, is it just that these individuals do not care about the potential downside of reusing the same address to take donations or is it a non-issue for donations??

Thanks Mike

Why is it such a downside for you using the same address? I actually read an article somewhere saying that in the future we might actually run out of bitcoin addresses, since anyone can create multiple address, and then it will stay on the network forever, and if the person that created it doesn't use it, then no one will use it, and that address will be lost forever. Most wallets already create multiple addresses, and then manage them for you, at least when you are making payments, so why isn't that enough for you?

Don't worry about running out of wallet addresses, there are 2^160 possibility which means 1,461,501,637,330,902,918,203,684,832,716,283,019,655,932,542,976 address that can be generated and i red somewhere that there are only 2^63 grains of sand on all of the beaches of the Earth.
I practically use one address for all my transactions that way trucking my funds become easier and there are no downside for reusing the same address.

HeRetiK

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Quote from: mcb5181 on November 04, 2017, 04:17:21 PM

I see. Everything that I had read made it seem like address reuse could lead to privacy and security issues. Both of those replies offered good insight. I understand a little better now, thanks.

Mike

Address reuse could lead to security issues in the future, if quantum computing ever gets viable. Before you make your first transaction from an address, the public key is unknown, due to the address being only a hash of the public key. The public key becomes exposed by necessity the first time an outgoing transaction is made. Using this public key, a quantum computer could in theory derive the private key of the corresponding address.

However, at this point in time, this is all just theoretical.

Quote from: FrueGreads on November 04, 2017, 05:32:03 PM

Why is it such a downside for you using the same address? I actually read an article somewhere saying that in the future we might actually run out of bitcoin addresses, since anyone can create multiple address, and then it will stay on the network forever, and if the person that created it doesn't use it, then no one will use it, and that address will be lost forever. Most wallets already create multiple addresses, and then manage them for you, at least when you are making payments, so why isn't that enough for you?

The key space of Bitcoin is in the orders of magnitude that make it practically impossible for duplicate keys to occur. There's even projects like the large Bitcoin collider that has already been going through trillions of private keys without finding anything (expect for purposefully placed bounties).

So for every Bitcoin address you don't use... thousands are generated and discarded every second.

And don't worry about taking up room in Bitcoin's key space. Private keys are generated at random, any address you have could be used by someone else in the future, just by chance of that person generating the same private key as you. However as I mentioned before, the chances of this happening, is practically impossible.

aplistir

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Quote from: FrueGreads on November 04, 2017, 05:32:03 PM

Why is it such a downside for you using the same address? I actually read an article somewhere saying that in the future we might actually run out of bitcoin addresses, since anyone can create multiple address, and then it will stay on the network forever, and if the person that created it doesn't use it, then no one will use it, and that address will be lost forever. Most wallets already create multiple addresses, and then manage them for you, at least when you are making payments, so why isn't that enough for you?

We will never run out of addresses. There are 2^160 possible "old style" addresses and that is a huge number. (then we have 2^160 P2SH and now 2^160 segWit addresses)

Even if every living human created 1000 addresses every second, that would only make in one year:
7000000000 people, 1000 addresses/s and 60*60*24*365=31536000 seconds in a year
7000000000*1000*31536000=220752000000000000000 addresses generated in 1 year.
A big number, but that is still less than 2^68 = 295147905179352825856

It would take 2^92= 4951760157141521099596496896 YEARS before every address would have been used ! 2^(160-68)=2^92

Not gonna happen anytime soon

My opinion of address re-use is that it is safe. Some of the addresses containing most bitoins have been reused for a long time without problems.

mcb5181

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Quote from: Yakamoto on November 04, 2017, 05:22:09 PM

Quote from: mcb5181 on November 04, 2017, 02:59:39 PM

Bitcoin is not news to me, but I've never really looked into precisely how it works. I've been researching Bitcoin for a few days now and came across the idea that transaction addresses should only be used once. However, I have also noticed that some developers that have websites which provide services like QR code generation DO have the same address listed for donation. Apparently it is feasible to have a script that generates a random address for each donation. So, is it just that these individuals do not care about the potential downside of reusing the same address to take donations or is it a non-issue for donations??

Thanks Mike

Why would it matter, really? I don't care much about what I have going on for my addresses, I don't know why there would be any issues related to having a single address used a few times over. Especially when it comes to things such as donations and the like. The worst case is you can see where the Bitcoin goes and how much they have collected in total, and that's not even that much of an issue. It's probably better for transparency anyways, but whatever.

Why do you think there is an issue with reusing addresses? I'm curious about why you'd think of that as an issue.

I think I understand a little better now after several of the inputs and some further reading. So, basically, these online wallets and exchanges and such manage your private keys and usually you don't encounter the private key but are only shown the public key (key and address essentially being synonymous, especially when talking about the public key and instructing someone where they should send the Bitcoin). By contrast, if you create a paper wallet you have access to both the public and the private keys and you maintain only the one set.

Yeah, I don't know, I was looking through the Wiki and it seemed like in an ideal world you would use a new pair of keys for each transaction. But perhaps that's not the realistic and practical scenario.

FrueGreads

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Quote from: mcb5181 on November 04, 2017, 02:59:39 PM

Bitcoin is not news to me, but I've never really looked into precisely how it works. I've been researching Bitcoin for a few days now and came across the idea that transaction addresses should only be used once. However, I have also noticed that some developers that have websites which provide services like QR code generation DO have the same address listed for donation. Apparently it is feasible to have a script that generates a random address for each donation. So, is it just that these individuals do not care about the potential downside of reusing the same address to take donations or is it a non-issue for donations??

Thanks Mike

Why is it such a downside for you using the same address? I actually read an article somewhere saying that in the future we might actually run out of bitcoin addresses, since anyone can create multiple address, and then it will stay on the network forever, and if the person that created it doesn't use it, then no one will use it, and that address will be lost forever. Most wallets already create multiple addresses, and then manage them for you, at least when you are making payments, so why isn't that enough for you?

Yakamoto

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Quote from: mcb5181 on November 04, 2017, 02:59:39 PM

Bitcoin is not news to me, but I've never really looked into precisely how it works. I've been researching Bitcoin for a few days now and came across the idea that transaction addresses should only be used once. However, I have also noticed that some developers that have websites which provide services like QR code generation DO have the same address listed for donation. Apparently it is feasible to have a script that generates a random address for each donation. So, is it just that these individuals do not care about the potential downside of reusing the same address to take donations or is it a non-issue for donations??

Thanks Mike

Why would it matter, really? I don't care much about what I have going on for my addresses, I don't know why there would be any issues related to having a single address used a few times over. Especially when it comes to things such as donations and the like. The worst case is you can see where the Bitcoin goes and how much they have collected in total, and that's not even that much of an issue. It's probably better for transparency anyways, but whatever.

Why do you think there is an issue with reusing addresses? I'm curious about why you'd think of that as an issue.

illinest

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Quote from: ahmedjamal1998 on November 04, 2017, 03:47:52 PM

When you have your coins in multiple addresses, your fees to send these coins together becomes high. Because the number of inputs increases significantly since you have a lot of inputs. Which means a bigger transaction therefore much higher fees.

This is incorrect. Addresses are merely part of an output. In this sense, addresses don't "exist" the way we think about them. They are just a useful abstraction to help people more easily understand how Bitcoin works.

If you have 5 outputs in Address A and 5 outputs in Address B, that is literally no different than having 10 outputs in Address A, regarding fees required to spend them. Spending 10 outputs will cost the same no matter which addresses you spend them from.

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Quote from: BitcoinIsAlgebraic on November 04, 2017, 04:28:29 PM

I like to reuse an address multiple times just because generating a new one every time and keeping track of it can get annoying.

Bitcoin is new to me, As a newbie in this website and Ive really looked into it precisely on how does it really work. I also made research this in a few days now and I know already that users can get money through online. I will also like to reuse it for someday if I need a new one I can keep my time on it. When you have your coins in multiple addresses, your fees to send these coins together becomes high. Because the number of inputs increases significantly since you have a lot of inputs. Which means a bigger transaction therefore much higher fees for you. So I guess it is better to reuse it.

BitcoinIsAlgebraic

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I like to reuse an address multiple times just because generating a new one every time and keeping track of it can get annoying.

mcb5181

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I see. Everything that I had read made it seem like address reuse could lead to privacy and security issues. Both of those replies offered good insight. I understand a little better now, thanks.

Mike

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Quote from: mcb5181 on November 04, 2017, 02:59:39 PM

Bitcoin is not news to me, but I've never really looked into precisely how it works. I've been researching Bitcoin for a few days now and came across the idea that transaction addresses should only be used once. However, I have also noticed that some developers that have websites which provide services like QR code generation DO have the same address listed for donation. Apparently it is feasible to have a script that generates a random address for each donation. So, is it just that these individuals do not care about the potential downside of reusing the same address to take donations or is it a non-issue for donations??

Thanks Mike

For bitcoin, if you didnt compromised the private key, you can reuse same adress with no problem. The public adress is really public you can share with the world, no way to someone get your private key from it. But if you already typed private key in a insecure device or not sure about the security and worried about it, you can create new wallet very quickly with no issue too.

Some exchanges may generate one time adress only, that you can deposit 1 time only and needs to renerate new adress to do new deposit later.

ahmedjamal1998

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Quote from: mcb5181 on November 04, 2017, 02:59:39 PM

So, is it just that these individuals do not care about the potential downside of reusing the same address to take donations or is it a non-issue for donations??

And what is the potential downside that you're talking about ? Businesses usually do that in order to make it easier for users and customers to track their deposits/withdrawals.

There's is totally no issue in reusing same addresses again. In fact, I've been using the same address that I first created once I got to know about bitcoins in 2015. It's even on my profile. I've used multiple ones yes but I mean I've been using it for more than 2 years. https://blockchain.info/address/1JUGNonNct8M4ysaT9DDmvzWz1971kHfov

When you have your coins in multiple addresses, your fees to send these coins together becomes high. Because the number of inputs increases significantly since you have a lot of inputs. Which means a bigger transaction therefore much higher fees.

The only reason you'd bother to use one-time addresses is that privacy really really matters to you and you won't be using your coins any time soon. But in case of daily use, it's useless.

mcb5181

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Bitcoin is not news to me, but I've never really looked into precisely how it works. I've been researching Bitcoin for a few days now and came across the idea that transaction addresses should only be used once. However, I have also noticed that some developers that have websites which provide services like QR code generation DO have the same address listed for donation. Apparently it is feasible to have a script that generates a random address for each donation. So, is it just that these individuals do not care about the potential downside of reusing the same address to take donations or is it a non-issue for donations??

Thanks Mike

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