After Sinbad, which mixer is Next To Be Shutdown?

Myleschetty

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Quote from: robelneo on December 09, 2023, 10:15:03 AM

Quote from: Myleschetty on December 07, 2023, 06:29:07 PM

In the future to prevent crypto mixers from troubling the authority they will increase the time to do some background checks on their customer. I'm saying this due to how abusive leads to KYC in crypto casinos.

That defeats the purpose of mixing

Do you think using centralized crypto mixing doesn't have the chance of defeating the purpose of mixing? You entrusted someone you don't know from Adam to mix your coin for you. You don't know if the service of the crypto is mixed very well, and you don't know if the mixer is operated by the Feds. An example is how Sinbad use innocent people's fund for their dirty fund.
The only mixing that didn't defeat the purpose of mixing is the decentralized one.

Quote from: robelneo on December 09, 2023, 10:15:03 AM

they have to trust the mixer in case they ask for KYC will they do because, in the first place, they use the mixer to anonymize their identity and they will also fear that the mixer will hostage their information.

I'm not talking about KYC but the mixer doing some background checks on the wallet address if the transaction comes from a flag, criminal, or scammer wallet.

Quote from: robelneo on December 09, 2023, 10:15:03 AM

If one mixer will do that background checking the clients will just choose other mixers that will not do background checking, we cannot change the business model of the mixer that's how they worked and that's how they are being patronized.
They are here to stay if authorities go after them or consider them illegal they always have the darknet to turn to.

How will users of a centralized crypto mixer know that the mixer they used does some background check on them?
Mixing is not illegal and it was recognized by FinCen but rendering the service for criminals, drug lords, etc is what is illegal.

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Quote from: Myleschetty on December 07, 2023, 06:29:07 PM

In the future to prevent crypto mixers from troubling the authority they will increase the time to do some background checks on their customer. I'm saying this due to how abusive leads to KYC in crypto casinos.

That defeats the purpose of mixing, they have to trust the mixer in case they ask for KYC will they do because, in the first place, they use the mixer to anonymize their identity and they will also fear that the mixer will hostage their information.
If one mixer will do that background checking the clients will just choose other mixers that will not do background checking, we cannot change the business model of the mixer that's how they worked and that's how they are being patronized.
They are here to stay if authorities go after them or consider them illegal they always have the darknet to turn to.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: logfiles on November 30, 2023, 06:10:16 PM

How is this a reputation board topic? Shouldn't it be in the service discussion board?

Mixers just don't get shutdown randomly. The law enforcement is mostly targeting those mixers that they believe have been used to launder Bitcoins from “Terrorists” or Hackers they think are state controlled, such as the Lazarus group.

This is the problem with the government. It can declare anything as an act of terrorists and use this for their own agenda very much similar to this hack from months ago where grandma Yellen accused it as an act from the Lazarus Group because the stolen coins were deposited to an address that was owned by the Lazarus.

It is headshaking because it is unconfirmed who owns the wallet and they cannot really prove that the Lazarus Group owns the wallet. What if it the hackers were hired by anticrypto people to disrupt the cryptospace through hacks and blame them on certain groups?

Myleschetty

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Quote from: joniboini on December 07, 2023, 09:57:07 PM

Quote from: Myleschetty on December 07, 2023, 06:29:07 PM

In the future to prevent crypto mixers from troubling the authority they will increase the time to do some background checks on their customer. I'm saying this due to how abusive leads to KYC in crypto casinos.

I wonder who will use them then. I guess the average joe won't have a problem with chain analysis, but I don't think they will survive long enough since it is unlikely that they will attract big customers. Any privacy enthusiast would use coinjoin or other options if that is the norm imo. On the other hand, they don't have to explicitly tell the public and just work together with the government if profit is still the goal. CMIIW.

With the news over the internet about the crypto mixer and the Bitcointalk forum banning anything that has to do with crypto mixer which crypto Twitter also talks about I don't think the average Joe will use their service and the next thing they will do now is to stop their operation as Sinbad and start operation in a new name just like they once did with Blender

Aanuoluwatofunmi

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It's something we may all not like to see come through by the 31st of December and the following day to have discovered that mixers are no more existing on the forum, by then if things never change and Theymos never reverse his stand over it, we will all be less concerned about which mixer is going down and which one is coming in new, since the forum banned them, it will now be a thing of battle between them and the government regulations individually and that will have nothing to do with the forum here where they use for making their advertisement, but we all are going to miss mixers on bitcointalk.

coin-investor

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Quote from: Synchronice on December 08, 2023, 03:35:44 AM

As far as I know, there is no mixer targeted on individual level. Usually a good indicator of which mixer is going to be shutdown next, is to read articles. If there is an article about particular mixer, i.e. money was laundered through X mixer, then X mixer will be the next to be shutdown. There were articles about Chipmixer and it got shutdown, then there were articles about Sinbad and it got shutdown too. At the moment, Financial Crimes Enforcement Network tries to label bitcoin mixers as a primary money laundering concern, i.e. it will be absolutely illegal for any crypto mixer to exist and it will also be illegal to mix your coins.

Mark my words, we will see an article about particular bitcoin mixer and that mixer will be the next to be shutdown! At the moment there are safe (I know it's still bold to say).

I agree there will be a leak on the news before the takedown, all mixers right now are suspects until the money launderers choose them to be their next mixing sites, and unless the mixer has parameters to prevent hackers and money launderers from using their platforms, the mixers will continue to exist because there is a market for their service they just have to set up parameters to protect their platforms from money launderers, I don't know how are they going to do that, but they should come out with an idea to avoid being targeted by the authorities.
Bitcoin mixing is not illegal or not yet but it's one of the businesses that is high risk, only the future will tell if they will continue to exist, maybe when there is no more high-profile hacking or scamming.

Synchronice

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As far as I know, there is no mixer targeted on individual level. Usually a good indicator of which mixer is going to be shutdown next, is to read articles. If there is an article about particular mixer, i.e. money was laundered through X mixer, then X mixer will be the next to be shutdown. There were articles about Chipmixer and it got shutdown, then there were articles about Sinbad and it got shutdown too. At the moment, Financial Crimes Enforcement Network tries to label bitcoin mixers as a primary money laundering concern, i.e. it will be absolutely illegal for any crypto mixer to exist and it will also be illegal to mix your coins.

Mark my words, we will see an article about particular bitcoin mixer and that mixer will be the next to be shutdown! At the moment there are safe (I know it's still bold to say).

EarnOnVictor

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Quote from: AliErkic on December 07, 2023, 04:24:41 PM

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on December 03, 2023, 12:12:51 PM

Quote from: AliErkic on November 30, 2023, 05:36:31 PM

Simple question, difficult answer.
Many mixers are active on Bitcointalk but how long will each one last?
Seems to be just a matter of time until we'll have our next mixer shutdown.

Pick your one, which is next!

Did you mean we should pick only from those ones active here?

Any centralized mixer is allowed to pick. No matter if it's from Bitcointalk or not.

In this case, still, I can't guarantee the actual one that will pack up next, but one thing that is sure is that m!xers by virtual of their mode of operation, will always run into trouble. There is no way more illegal dealings will not be added to their operations whether they know of it or not.

Come to think of it, m!xers can't be good for our society, a service that makes transactions untreatable, does one think that evildoers will not happen to use that service often? Also, do not forget that some of those evildoers will knowingly set up their mixing service to hide under it and deliberately move their illicit funds, that's even as they also make more money from its direct service.

joniboini

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Quote from: Myleschetty on December 07, 2023, 06:29:07 PM

In the future to prevent crypto mixers from troubling the authority they will increase the time to do some background checks on their customer. I'm saying this due to how abusive leads to KYC in crypto casinos.

I wonder who will use them then. I guess the average joe won't have a problem with chain analysis, but I don't think they will survive long enough since it is unlikely that they will attract big customers. Any privacy enthusiast would use coinjoin or other options if that is the norm imo. On the other hand, they don't have to explicitly tell the public and just work together with the government if profit is still the goal. CMIIW.

Darker45

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Of course, it's hard to tell which particular mixer would be the next to bite the dust, but one surely will. There are probably two factors. First, if a mixer becomes the clear winner in the competition among mixers and becomes bigger than the rest, it will surely be the hottest target. Chipmixer was probably the biggest when it was taken down. Sinbad started small, rose through the ranks, and probably reached the top of the food chain as well. Second, for whatever reason, if a mixer becomes the choice of the likes of Lazarus and other criminal groups, surely it will be taken down swiftly.

PX-Z

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Such question sounds like what exchange will be hacked next.

Either way, it's not a question which, but when. Because once those hackers used any exchange to mix their hacked coins, mixer will also be tagged for money laundering and it's the end of them.

That's why mixers need to think about it and should block all address that was tagged as hackers address for them to operate longer.

Myleschetty

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Quote from: AliErkic on December 07, 2023, 04:24:41 PM

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on December 03, 2023, 12:12:51 PM

Quote from: AliErkic on November 30, 2023, 05:36:31 PM

Simple question, difficult answer.
Many mixers are active on Bitcointalk but how long will each one last?
Seems to be just a matter of time until we'll have our next mixer shutdown.

Pick your one, which is next!

Did you mean we should pick only from those ones active here?

Any centralized mixer is allowed to pick. No matter if it's from Bitcointalk or not.

No one can tell which crypto mixer will be next to shut down since the cryptocurrency tumbler is acknowledged by FinCen and the only crypto mixer that deals with the mixing of dirty/bad fund are shut down.
In the future to prevent crypto mixers from troubling the authority they will increase the time to do some background checks on their customer. I'm saying this due to how abusive leads to KYC in crypto casinos.

Potato Chips

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But most likely the most popular will be prioritized.

There is no such thing as unlimited resources so it makes sense go to the with the biggest potential compensation and it's safe to assume the biggest fish would be loaded. In addition, I think it would make a good "trophy material" for them as well.

AliErkic

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Quote from: EarnOnVictor on December 03, 2023, 12:12:51 PM

Quote from: AliErkic on November 30, 2023, 05:36:31 PM

Simple question, difficult answer.
Many mixers are active on Bitcointalk but how long will each one last?
Seems to be just a matter of time until we'll have our next mixer shutdown.

Pick your one, which is next!

Did you mean we should pick only from those ones active here?

Any centralized mixer is allowed to pick. No matter if it's from Bitcointalk or not.

EarnOnVictor

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Quote from: AliErkic on November 30, 2023, 05:36:31 PM

Simple question, difficult answer.
Many mixers are active on Bitcointalk but how long will each one last?
Seems to be just a matter of time until we'll have our next mixer shutdown.

Pick your one, which is next!

Did you mean we should pick only from those ones active here? Well, I will not do that because that would amount to wishing them bad luck.

I can only advise them to work with their conscience unless they do not know about the main things their services are being used for. Some are not familiar with what they are doing ignorantly but some are indeed familiar with it but don't just care. They might want to do a very good business that is void of the blame that could cost them their company for them to stay longer.

Many mixers have been banned in the past, and of course, this last one will not be the end. And to crown it all, no one knows the next one, maybe the law enforcers will be able to answer that based on their investigations.

PX-Z

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on December 02, 2023, 03:56:43 PM

There should be something to replace mixers. Because legal authorities are trying hard to shut down all the mixers, I don't think someone has taken the risk of opening a mixing service lately.

I think decentralized hosting service is one of the solution for mixers to avoid getting shutdown by the authorities, but there are still chances though especially if authorities force and threaten the hosting service.

Mixers should block known hacker address or those labeled address to avoid authorities finding its way to shut these mixers. Because it risks their business even though mixers are pro privacy but if they are pro criminals too then they deserve to get shut.

The Cryptovator

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There should be something to replace mixers. Because legal authorities are trying hard to shut down all the mixers, I don't think someone has taken the risk of opening a mixing service lately. The only way to run mixers on Darknet, which will be hard and complicated without promotion, the forum has already banned all the mixing services from the next year. Binance also found wallets connected with mixers and asked to provide details transaction of that wallets. So it's going to be even harder to use and find legit mixing services without risks.

coin-investor

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Quote from: AliErkic on November 30, 2023, 05:36:31 PM

Simple question, difficult answer.
Many mixers are active on Bitcointalk but how long will each one last?
Seems to be just a matter of time until we'll have our next mixer shutdown.

Pick your one, which is next!

We'll never know that and no one can update the community after January 1 because mixers and anything about mixers even the mere mention of Bitcoin mixer is not allowed, after January 1 nobody here in Bitcointalk will care about mixer anymore, so if you're a Bitcoin mixer and a member of Bitcointalk you cannot ask about Bitcoin mixer if you encounter a problem.
This year is the year of the mixer after the closure of Chipmixer many mixers have launched their announcement here vying to be the next popular mixer here by launching a signature campaign.
But it was short-lived because of what happened to Sinbad and the connection of many users' addresses.

shahzadafzal

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Quote from: AliErkic on November 30, 2023, 05:36:31 PM

Simple question, difficult answer.
Many mixers are active on Bitcointalk but how long will each one last?
Seems to be just a matter of time until we'll have our next mixer shutdown.

Pick your one, which is next!

I really wish it was a simple situation, but the truth is, no mixer or exchange is completely safe.

Guessing which mixer might be shut down next is hard if not impossible. The sindbad.io case shows that even places that seem secure can become targets because of criminals. These bad actors can use mixers and exchanges to hide who they are, even with KYC rules.

The cryptocurrency world is always changing, so any mixer service or exchange could potentially face shutdown.

This shows why it's so important to always be watchful and have rules in place to stop criminals from misusing these platforms.

348Judah

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Quote from: AliErkic on November 30, 2023, 05:36:31 PM

Simple question, difficult answer.
Many mixers are active on Bitcointalk but how long will each one last?
Seems to be just a matter of time until we'll have our next mixer shutdown.

It's a pity that the government are not seing the reason for he use of a mixer, this is only in serving for anonymity purpose and nothing more, we need our privacy, but they have taken this with the wrong approach that bitcoin mixers are being used for illegal funds transfer, if what they want is to continue in this since they cannot stop bitcoin p2p network, then the mixers are likely not to be stopped as well and the more they keep hunting after them, new ones are coming out.

Quote from: AliErkic on November 30, 2023, 05:36:31 PM

Pick your one, which is next!

Don't know which, that's if there's any going soon.

Husires

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So far, mixers are legal, but no one knows what will happen in the future, but events such as the FTX have accelerated the issuance of many laws that restrict many exchanges, and the SEC may not have been as strict as it is currently, which means that more activities of darknet mixers will make it necessary to issue laws related to mixers.

Quote from: Jawhead999 on December 01, 2023, 12:52:24 AM

We have bestmixer, chipmixer, blender.io etc that were promoted in this forum and has been seized, but until now there's no bold action. AFAIK only Sinbad that theymos decide to ban the account and move it to archival after the project is seized.

I do not think that the reason for their ban is that they are a mixer, but rather an attempt to continue advertising even after it has been seized, which means continuing to advertise something illegal, which is prohibited according to the rules.

Quote

11. No linking to illegal trading sites.

Jawhead999

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Quote from: Onyeeze on December 01, 2023, 12:18:53 AM

A mixer can last in forum as long as they want only if they follow the rules and regulations of mixers because their is something that I have observed that is putting all the mixing companies into problems, if mixer want to go against the rule and regulations of mixer it when they do have problem, so a mixer that want to last is not supposed to do against the rules and regulations of mixer, so their is some certain things that the remaining mixer in the forum have to do correctly, if they want to last let them leave money laundering alone, the crime mixers commit can affect bitcointalk or bring attention of law enforcement agencies to the forum, if I'm not sure that the case of sinbad.io will not bring attraction to forum

There's no regulations or rules that the mixer need to follow, they're actually an open market and they don't consider about taint, every Satoshi is fungible.

If someone want to start a project that you need to follow the regulations or rules, they should create a centralized exchange, not mixer.

We have bestmixer, chipmixer, blender.io etc that were promoted in this forum and has been seized, but until now there's no bold action. AFAIK only Sinbad that theymos decide to ban the account and move it to archival after the project is seized.

We're not yet in the moment where posting mixer ANN is illegal and I hope it will not happen.

Quote from: theymos on November 30, 2023, 05:42:44 AM

Bitcointalk.org is not a darknet site. Linking to illegal services is not allowed. As mentioned in the law-enforcement press release, "a cryptocurrency mixing service is not necessarily illegal." But a seized mixer is rather different from just any old mixer. Sinbad, if still operating, is now clearly a darknet site, and therefore not allowed on bitcointalk.org.

The OP is banned. This topic is archived. The onion address is wordfiltered, and bypassing the wordfilter will get you banned.

yahoo62278

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As owlcatz already said, all of them. I think he is correct and eventually all get seized at some point. Then poker player has a good point as well mentioning legislation to put laws in place against them.

Whenever a government is not getting what they think is their fair share, the service, website, company, or whatever will always be deemed illegal. Why do they think they're entitled to a piece of every dollar we have? Basically, cause we are dumb enough to let it happen. American revolution comes to mind. I though they revolted due to all the taxation, but nope more and more taxes. I could go on and on here, but it's pointless.

Another concern, will they ever pursue legal action (criminal or civil) against those who promote the mixers? I've seen stories about ronaldo promoting Banince, Tom Brady and FTX, Shaq and FTX, and so on. Gotta be a reason theymos isn't allowing staff to join the mixers as well. Think about it folks. While everyone using a mixer isn't breaking the law, a good number are.

Onyeeze

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Quote from: AliErkic on November 30, 2023, 05:36:31 PM

Simple question, difficult answer.
Many mixers are active on Bitcointalk but how long will each one last?
Seems to be just a matter of time until we'll have our next mixer shutdown.

A mixer can last in forum as long as they want only if they follow the rules and regulations of mixers because their is something that I have observed that is putting all the mixing companies into problems, if mixer want to go against the rule and regulations of mixer it when they do have problem, so a mixer that want to last is not supposed to do against the rules and regulations of mixer, so their is some certain things that the remaining mixer in the forum have to do correctly, if they want to last let them leave money laundering alone, the crime mixers commit can affect bitcointalk or bring attention of law enforcement agencies to the forum, if I'm not sure that the case of sinbad.io will not bring attraction to forum

Poker Player

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Quote from: Yamane_Keto on November 30, 2023, 10:29:23 PM

Laws have already begun that try to collect more information about blenders or make them illegal, for example Proposal of Special Measure Regarding Convertible Virtual Currency Mixing, as a Class of Transactions of Primary Money Laundering Concern AGENCY: Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), Treasury

That's what I'm afraid of. We are heading towards societies where the public authorities will have total information about the population in real time with tools such as CBDCs and digital identity. It is only a matter of time before laws against mixers are passed. Since the administration is slow and passing laws takes a while, it's not going to happen tomorrow but I won't be surprised if in a couple of years or so we see the first anti-mixer legislation.

Pandu Geddon

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Mixers who have problems or conflicts with certain government authorities will be detected very quickly. A new one will emerge but it may not last long because attention to mixers will probably increase after several cases involving mixers that we know of.
the investigation was of course not simple, and it could not cover all mixers thoroughly. but maybe every mixer will get attention and when it is discovered that there is a problem, maybe gradually all mixers may stop and will no longer be popular.

Yamane_Keto

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As I mentioned on a previous topic which I quote:

Quote

In the case of Sinbad.io, more than 50 percent of all mixed cryptocurrencies were found to have a criminal origin. In the case of Sinbad . io, there are no measures in place to implement and enforce a Know Your Customer (KYC) or Know Your Transaction (KYT) policy.

Without seizing the servers, and having the customers’ data recorded and then ensuring that the percentage is higher than 50% and then arresting them, this was determined in advance when they tracked the servers and tried to shut down the service.

I think that the government's policy towards the mixers will be to force them to provide and record data and close every large mixer that does not cooperate.

If you want to know the second mixer that will be closed, look for a mixer that has become large, or whose name has begun to be mentioned with every hacker case, or that has been linked to the addresses of a hacker group such as the Lazarus group, and then it will be on the list, which may mean that they will track the servers of that mixer and try to stop it.

Laws have already begun that try to collect more information about blenders or make them illegal, for example Proposal of Special Measure Regarding Convertible Virtual Currency Mixing, as a Class of Transactions of Primary Money Laundering Concern AGENCY: Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), Treasury

Until then and these laws are passed, mixers are not necessarily illegal and are used to enhance privacy (Which is necessary.)

Razmirraz

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No one knows how long Mixer will last, if it doesn't encounter any problems, maybe their lifespan is longer than ever thought. The mixer is not turned off, there are legal procedures that can bring it buried more quickly. The legal process will proceed in stages from investigation to final decision depending on how big the case is.
Previously it was Chipmixer, now Sinbad.io is starting to encounter cases. Everything is still possible, it is possible that there will be more Mixers who will follow them or maybe other Mixers will be more careful in running their business.

alani123

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No way to know this as a user.
If you are to receive fund from a mixer or interact with it in any way, it's better to do so in an address where you control the private key to, otherwise they might be seized from services contacted by the authorities.
Already users in the sinbad thread reported that they had this happen to them.

It's risky business.
Ironically, you need to mix funds from mixers again before you can actually use them...
Maybe BTC mixers will have to start paying in Monero.

logfiles

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How is this a reputation board topic? Shouldn't it be in the service discussion board?

Mixers just don't get shutdown randomly. The law enforcement is mostly targeting those mixers that they believe have been used to launder Bitcoins from “Terrorists” or Hackers they think are state controlled, such as the Lazarus group.

Once a mixer comes in their radar to have been used to launder such Bitcoin, then next thing you that would be likely to happen is a seizure after investigations. So it's a process. If all mixers were to be shutdown at an instant, we wouldn't have many today, especially on the Clearnet. Take an example of a mixer from 2016, it's still there to this date.

As of now, we don't know which mixer could be heavily used by the enemies of the Government next.

owlcatz

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No idea... ? Roll Eyes

All of them eventually, most likely.

AliErkic

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Simple question, difficult answer.
Many mixers are active on Bitcointalk but how long will each one last?
Seems to be just a matter of time until we'll have our next mixer shutdown.

Pick your one, which is next!

Topic: After Sinbad, which mixer is Next To Be Shutdown? (Read 377 times)