After the usual PBOC bullshit routine. Uptrend continues.

e-coinomist

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Money often costs too much.

Quote from: manselr on February 10, 2017, 01:31:08 PM

The only way we could have money in a broker to take advantage of quick price movements its through some sort new decentralized technology. Bitsquare.io is not what we want, that is a marketplace. We need a poloniex replacement in a decentralized way.

I think until lightning network is operative, such technologies will not be possible. We would also need segwit.

Until then, it's time to buy and hold on our cold wallets, it's not worth having any BTC in exchanges for any relevant amounts of time.

You could add ShapeShift.io onto your shortlist. There are several options for the weary, but be afraid of higher spreads in their orderbooks. Only a full-scale tradeside can offer lower slippage for exchange services.

manselr

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Quote from: leopard2 on February 09, 2017, 07:42:13 PM

two things

a) another lesson why it is bad to have money on an exchange...I wish there was a way of hedging BTC against fiat without trusting the money to a third party

b) it is not a coincidence that this happens now. Every time BTC goes over $1000, PBOC is interfering. Obviously they do not wish BTC to be more than $1000 permanently.

for sure those exchanges will now bully users using the frozen funds.... Sad

The only way we could have money in a broker to take advantage of quick price movements its through some sort new decentralized technology. Bitsquare.io is not what we want, that is a marketplace. We need a poloniex replacement in a decentralized way.

I think until lightning network is operative, such technologies will not be possible. We would also need segwit.

Until then, it's time to buy and hold on our cold wallets, it's not worth having any BTC in exchanges for any relevant amounts of time.

e-coinomist

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Money often costs too much.

Quote from: Immakillya on February 09, 2017, 09:22:36 PM

Quote from: leopard2 on February 09, 2017, 07:42:13 PM

two things

a) another lesson why it is bad to have money on an exchange...I wish there was a way of hedging BTC against fiat without trusting the money to a third party

b) it is not a coincidence that this happens now. Every time BTC goes over $1000, PBOC is interfering. Obviously they do not wish BTC to be more than $1000 permanently.

for sure those exchanges will now bully users using the frozen funds.... Sad

Yeah, thats their signature move. Scaring bitcoin noobs from spreading FUDs that will cause panic sell that will be a chain reaction that will cause massive impact on bitcoin's price
But atleast now we learned from our mistakes. Bitcoin users cant be easily fooled now. We are at $970+ and starting to move again. I guess only few are believing this PBOC crap.

This will be tiresome, to read about "PBoC crap" over and over, again and again since it isn't even the truth.
According to this report it was "self-discipline" to block customer's funds, NOT the goverment pressing. And in an update to the article Huobi isn't even affected from any blockade, at all. Nor is OKCoin if you don't use the .cn domain to access them.

Quote

In statements provided to CoinDesk, Huobi indicated that the move was a proactive one that found the two exchanges seeking to "promote bitcoin industry self-discipline".
http://www.coindesk.com/two-chinas-biggest-exchanges-stop-bitcoin-withdrawals/

The information situation seems highly misleading and constantly on the move.

Immakillya

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Quote from: leopard2 on February 09, 2017, 07:42:13 PM

two things

a) another lesson why it is bad to have money on an exchange...I wish there was a way of hedging BTC against fiat without trusting the money to a third party

b) it is not a coincidence that this happens now. Every time BTC goes over $1000, PBOC is interfering. Obviously they do not wish BTC to be more than $1000 permanently.

for sure those exchanges will now bully users using the frozen funds.... Sad

Yeah, thats their signature move. Scaring bitcoin noobs from spreading FUDs that will cause panic sell that will be a chain reaction that will cause massive impact on bitcoin's price
But atleast now we learned from our mistakes. Bitcoin users cant be easily fooled now. We are at $970+ and starting to move again. I guess only few are believing this PBOC crap.

leopard2

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two things

a) another lesson why it is bad to have money on an exchange...I wish there was a way of hedging BTC against fiat without trusting the money to a third party

b) it is not a coincidence that this happens now. Every time BTC goes over $1000, PBOC is interfering. Obviously they do not wish BTC to be more than $1000 permanently.

for sure those exchanges will now bully users using the frozen funds.... Sad

Raimonn

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Quote from: DRaGoN RaNTaRo on February 09, 2017, 03:43:13 PM

The so called bullshit routine continued and the price is falling because the major exchanges in china suspended withdrawals which is really a bad thing for the entire echo system and it will remain suspended for atleast a month to comply the local regulations.

They need one month to comply the local regulations? I think that they can do with less time, I have read that BTCC didn't suspend withdrawals they only delayed withdrawls 72 hours (I suppose that they have enough time with 72 h. to be sure that the user that want to withdraw comply all the local regulations).

DRaGoN RaNTaRo

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The so called bullshit routine continued and the price is falling because the major exchanges in china suspended withdrawals which is really a bad thing for the entire echo system and it will remain suspended for atleast a month to comply the local regulations.

cellard

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Quote from: CloudStrife on February 09, 2017, 10:59:58 AM

It is a bad thing for Bitcoin that the price is so affected by such events. If the Chinese government interferes too much in the functioning of the exchanges, I think it's only a matter of time before users start using decentralized exchanges. I know there are already some, such as Bitsquare, OpenLedger, not so popular, but exchanges able to attract a larger number of users will probably be created after such events.

It is a free market, they are going to keep doing it and since noobs have weak hands, they will keep panic selling when the chinese gov statements happen, then some will try to trade the market, some will win, some will lose, but the ones that always win are the chinese gov with the insider trading.

They cant stop bitcoin, they can only profit from it.

CloudStrife

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It is a bad thing for Bitcoin that the price is so affected by such events. If the Chinese government interferes too much in the functioning of the exchanges, I think it's only a matter of time before users start using decentralized exchanges. I know there are already some, such as Bitsquare, OpenLedger, not so popular, but exchanges able to attract a larger number of users will probably be created after such events.

ipanks

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in an hour ago, we are getting down too deep than before but for now, the price is getting to back and still trying to reach the high price and now the price is on $976. i hope the price soon will be reach in up to $1k like before and i hope that the down price is only correction for PBOC and it would make any negative affect with the price.

alyssa85

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on February 09, 2017, 10:49:41 AM

Quote from: jakelyson on February 09, 2017, 10:40:48 AM

Quote from: mikenz on February 09, 2017, 10:23:25 AM

in this case the reason is pretty clear. chinese exchanges have to stop btc withdrawal until AML implementation.

https://twitter.com/cnLedger

This really got them. In just two hours they manage to bring down the price to sub 900. They dumped their coins, I buy them cheap. Lucky for us.
I just do not get it why do they have to dump their coins? Can't they just transfer it to another exchange?

I think that they cannot touch now neither BTC, nor CNY deposited in the exchanges.
And the estimated time for making the systems AML compliant is .. 1 month (!)
"Estimated 1 month but can be significantly ahead of schedule if it went well", meaning they leave enough room for speculation.

Edit: however, markets already recovered some 20$

It is a pity they didn't do this ages ago, when the price was lower and the fallout less. I feel sorry for the Chinese who have money trapped on the exchanges.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: jakelyson on February 09, 2017, 10:40:48 AM

Quote from: mikenz on February 09, 2017, 10:23:25 AM

in this case the reason is pretty clear. chinese exchanges have to stop btc withdrawal until AML implementation.

https://twitter.com/cnLedger

This really got them. In just two hours they manage to bring down the price to sub 900. They dumped their coins, I buy them cheap. Lucky for us.
I just do not get it why do they have to dump their coins? Can't they just transfer it to another exchange?

I think that they cannot touch now neither BTC, nor CNY deposited in the exchanges.
And the estimated time for making the systems AML compliant is .. 1 month (!)
"Estimated 1 month but can be significantly ahead of schedule if it went well", meaning they leave enough room for speculation.

Edit: however, markets already recovered some 20$

royalfestus

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Quote from: Diced90 on February 08, 2017, 02:24:30 PM

PBOC seems to be bothered when ever the price starts to go up as it trying to avoid been put under the knife from the international community for not regulating btc that's why it needs exchangers to be in check with the currency.
I believe with all this publicity bitcoin is getting a platform to grow MORE!!

This is why I hate decentralization,this is not yuan that can be devalued any time to suit their market exchange. My concern is that this market manipulation will continue as long as china holds the large share of the currency.

jakelyson

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Quote from: mikenz on February 09, 2017, 10:23:25 AM

in this case the reason is pretty clear. chinese exchanges have to stop btc withdrawal until AML implementation.

https://twitter.com/cnLedger

This really got them. In just two hours they manage to bring down the price to sub 900. They dumped their coins, I buy them cheap. Lucky for us.
I just do not get it why do they have to dump their coins? Can't they just transfer it to another exchange?

mikenz

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in this case the reason is pretty clear. chinese exchanges have to stop btc withdrawal until AML implementation.

https://twitter.com/cnLedger

d@nte

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Is today's price drop related to this? There are people spreading FUD about it on reddit. Yesterday the price was in the range of $ 1060, currently it is in the range of $ 975. It is impressive how the price drops significantly and we only know the reasons long after.

mikenz

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I think they see the upside potential and want to make sure to get these exchanges compliant with AML before they handle substantial cash flows. Will be good for BTC in the long run - if they are not overreacting. But cancelling BTC / LTC withdrawals for 1 month? You have to consider the customer side. If you are chinese and your exchange proofs unreliable in terms of withdrawals, what would you do? You send your BTC to any other exchange for trading or to your private wallet for holding - and only use the chinese exchange for cash out in CNY.

Might turn out that PBoC cut their own flesh with this. If Chinese citizen do not trade their BTC on chinese exchanges anymore, they can regulate them just as much as they want..

Raimonn

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Another time bitcoin prices down because the Central Bank of China, why they have interest on dumping bitcoin prices? They want to buy them more cheap?

Snorek

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Quote from: mikenz on February 08, 2017, 10:03:44 AM

Quote

Chinese exchanges still have the biggest volumes, China is still the biggest BTC market

No they dont.

No its not.

Thats the latest extrapolation after PBoC forced chinese exchanges to drop their pants down.

It's nice to know that Chinese volume was totally fake, I was able to get my hands of older version of the volume charts (30 days old to be exact).
For your viewing pleasure, witness the full extent of manipulation produced by Chinese exchanges in the past:

https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/volumepie/

Herbert2020

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Quote from: zby on February 08, 2017, 10:56:35 AM

Quote from: mikenz on February 08, 2017, 10:03:44 AM

Quote

Chinese exchanges still have the biggest volumes, China is still the biggest BTC market

No they dont.

No its not.

[i m g]https://btcoins.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/china-new-curr-3.png[/img]

Thats the latest extrapolation after PBoC forced chinese exchanges to drop their pants down.

Come on - this chart lumps all USD exchanges together. Today OKCoin has had so far 20K volume - which exchange had more? Maybe the Japanese ones - but those are again zero-fees unreliable data. The same thing with the market share - CNY is pretty much only used in China - USD is used in all national markets.

well first of all who is to say Chinese exchanges aren't still reporting fake volumes? they were reporting billion dollar daily volumes not so long ago!
also you have to consider that many countries don't yet have an established and good exchange service and they trade bitcoin either on USD/EUR markets which we can see on the charts and a very big volume goes into localbitcoins and off the charts which we can never see on any chart here or anywhere else.

i my self have bought a lot of bitcoins using local currency and nobody knows because it was p2p since there is no exchange here.

shapeshiftscam

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Uptrend continues, +1, no government can prevent bitcoin growing.

China has no more tricks against bitcoin organic growth, during first meeting, the price was dumped from 8888 CNY to 4900 CNY, last meeting only caused the price dumped from 7500 CNY to 6900 CNY. People are not panic like before, unless they shut down major 3 bitcoin exchanges(I see no reason, if they comply PBOC's requirements), or even cut the Internet(impossible to do this extreme action).

e-coinomist

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Money often costs too much.

Quote from: cengsuwuei on February 08, 2017, 05:56:02 PM

about PBOC not big affect, affect only china trader in speculation to dump coin and can get buy low price
PBOC only give regulation about trading fee

There's a lill devil sitting on my shoulder asking right into my twitching ears how the slashback from other trade sites against formerly oh so zero fee superior competition might form out. Japan got mentioned in this thread. 0.2% is conquerable. Interesting perspective, since BTC can travel fast.

Pab

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Quote from: mikenz on February 08, 2017, 10:03:44 AM

Quote

Chinese exchanges still have the biggest volumes, China is still the biggest BTC market

No they dont.

No its not.

Thats the latest extrapolation after PBoC forced chinese exchanges to drop their pants down.

Interesting chart,i have theory that the reason of current price is Trump imigration ban. It is cearly against mousli,many of them is leaving,working learning in USA legally.Now thay have to move away and left everything,people can be worry that banks will suspend his accounts so thay are going for btc

cengsuwuei

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#SWGT PRE-SALE IS LIVE

about PBOC not big affect, affect only china trader in speculation to dump coin and can get buy low price
PBOC only give regulation about trading fee

DRaGoN RaNTaRo

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Quote from: BTCLovingDude on February 08, 2017, 07:44:12 AM

China is old news now. nobody cares about them anymore.
there was a time when people still thought the billion dollar daily volume they reported were real, but now we know how fake it was.
there was a time when people still thought all the mining power came from China, but we have been seeing more and more hashrate from other places.

and with all these changes, i don't think there is anybody naive enough to believe FUD like that and make the price go down. it is time for the FUDsters to find better and newer things Cheesy

If that is the case the price wont go down with the news about the meeting ,China is still relevant and any news coming out of China will make a difference in the price of bitcoin and the good part is the price didn't go down below $1000 and now i am pretty confident that we have a good resistance around that value.Majority of the hash rate are still coming from China compared to the rest of the world.

cryp24x

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Quote from: Diced90 on February 08, 2017, 02:24:30 PM

PBOC seems to be bothered when ever the price starts to go up as it trying to avoid been put under the knife from the international community for not regulating btc that's why it needs exchangers to be in check with the currency.
I believe with all this publicity bitcoin is getting a platform to grow MORE!!

Well PBOC always used this kind of tactics whenever a good incline in price of Bitcoin is seen. It happen several times so I guess it is obvious that people are now having a resistance to PBOC bad press towards Bitcoin. Which has been shown in the uptrend price of Bitcoin this past weeks.

Diced90

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Get'em boys

PBOC seems to be bothered when ever the price starts to go up as it trying to avoid been put under the knife from the international community for not regulating btc that's why it needs exchangers to be in check with the currency.
I believe with all this publicity bitcoin is getting a platform to grow MORE!!

zby

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Quote from: mikenz on February 08, 2017, 01:54:43 PM

Quote

Today OKCoin has had so far 20K volume - which exchange had more?

if bots playing ping pong with one btc selling and buying it back 20k times because the trading fees are a joke, its still 1 BTC. And not 20k BTC.

Have you even noticed a change there recently? PBOC requested that there is a 0.2% transaction fee on all Chinese exchanges and that the volumes reported are correct. The volumes there decreased many times - sure the exchanges can still cheat, but so can western exchanges.

mikenz

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Quote

Today OKCoin has had so far 20K volume - which exchange had more?

if bots playing ping pong with one btc selling and buying it back 20k times because the trading fees are a joke, its still 1 BTC. And not 20k BTC.

royalfestus

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Quote from: zby on February 08, 2017, 10:56:35 AM

Quote from: mikenz on February 08, 2017, 10:03:44 AM

Quote

Chinese exchanges still have the biggest volumes, China is still the biggest BTC market

Thats the latest extrapolation after PBoC forced chinese exchanges to drop their pants down.

Come on - this chart lumps all USD exchanges together. Today OKCoin has had so far 20K volume - which exchange had more? Maybe the Japanese ones - but those are again zero-fees unreliable data. The same thing with the market share - CNY is pretty much only used in China - USD is used in all national markets.

The info almost got me confused until u referred to the exchange unit not the exchange site. I have always seen the large amount accrued by the chinese in volumes and analysis. so surprised US had not done that much. This large volume has always been the bone of contention on decentralization, which if it continue this way it will still stand

spazzdla

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Jesus how do people fall for the boy that called wolf over 20 times.. LIKE fuck boys.. didn't you learn after #12?

Wolf Rainer

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Classic bitcoin cycles, people closing positions and shorting to take profit, nothing to worry about. The trend is still bullish and we will see several green candles this week.

DoktorKopf

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Quote from: European Central Bank on February 08, 2017, 11:00:38 AM

Quote from: e-coinomist on February 08, 2017, 10:56:31 AM

Surprised about that smallish GBP and RUB volume. Russia banning/permitting Bitcoin once has been a similar gameplay like PBoC acts out today. And many trade sites in europe are british limited companies.
On this pie chart they are thinner than the icing, negligible.

gbp will always be dead. what exchanges there are bank in europe which costs money and takes time to send to. may as well use kraken.

None of the GBP exchanges are integrated into the UK faster payments setup (even if they are technically UK based). If you're going to mess around with the time and cost of wires or some sepa fudge you might as well trade in USD or even EUR and gain on the liquidity. You can't trade on big spreads and low liquidity, a catch 22 that Coinfloor is trying to address (IIRC) with 0% maker fees.

anonbit992

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A Trader & An Investor

Quote from: shapeshiftscam on February 08, 2017, 08:14:12 AM

Quote from: cellard on February 08, 2017, 07:31:15 AM

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-08/china-central-bank-said-to-call-bitcoin-exchanges-for-more-talks

China is back with their controlled demolition of the price to short it, but it keeps getting buyed back up fast. Last time we crashed down to $775, now only down to $1009. We still didn't go below $1000, good news. We are back to $1038.

Those damn chinese have found a new way to make free money by trigger panic sells and stealing cheap BTC from dumb panic sellers. Hopefully the PBOC bullshit is weaker everytime.

Chinese miners and traders are so weak, I can't understand what they think, China bans bitcoin so many times, but weak hands are still afraid the bad news. I think most of Chinese miners and traders are only SPECULATORS, they do not TRUST bitcoin and blockchain technology, they hunt for quick money, they don't deserve the future huge gain(5000 usd, 10000 usd), ignore those nervous sheep miners.

I think it is not just Chinese but there is a large number of traders all around the world who are just here to make some quick bucks trading bitcoin. They just don't give a damn about bitcoin or any other alts in the space. They are just here, happy to flip bitcoin or other alts to fiat and satisfied with their 5 to 10 percent gains.

European Central Bank

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Quote from: e-coinomist on February 08, 2017, 10:56:31 AM

Surprised about that smallish GBP and RUB volume. Russia banning/permitting Bitcoin once has been a similar gameplay like PBoC acts out today. And many trade sites in europe are british limited companies.
On this pie chart they are thinner than the icing, negligible.

gbp will always be dead. what exchanges there are bank in europe which costs money and takes time to send to. may as well use kraken.

zby

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Quote from: mikenz on February 08, 2017, 10:03:44 AM

Quote

Chinese exchanges still have the biggest volumes, China is still the biggest BTC market

No they dont.

No its not.

Thats the latest extrapolation after PBoC forced chinese exchanges to drop their pants down.

Come on - this chart lumps all USD exchanges together. Today OKCoin has had so far 20K volume - which exchange had more? Maybe the Japanese ones - but those are again zero-fees unreliable data. The same thing with the market share - CNY is pretty much only used in China - USD is used in all national markets.

e-coinomist

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Money often costs too much.

Quote from: mikenz on February 08, 2017, 10:03:44 AM

Quote

Chinese exchanges still have the biggest volumes, China is still the biggest BTC market

No they dont.

No its not.

Thats the latest extrapolation after PBoC forced chinese exchanges to drop their pants down.

Surprised about that smallish GBP and RUB volume. Russia banning/permitting Bitcoin once has been a similar gameplay like PBoC acts out today. And many trade sites in europe are british limited companies.
On this pie chart they are thinner than the icing, negligible.

European Central Bank

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they're rapidly running oit of ammo. soon enough china will be just another place in terms of market players.

now if we could only get people to use somewhere less crappy than bitfinex we might be on to something.

cellard

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Quote from: BTCLovingDude on February 08, 2017, 07:44:12 AM

China is old news now. nobody cares about them anymore.
there was a time when people still thought the billion dollar daily volume they reported were real, but now we know how fake it was.
there was a time when people still thought all the mining power came from China, but we have been seeing more and more hashrate from other places.

and with all these changes, i don't think there is anybody naive enough to believe FUD like that and make the price go down. it is time for the FUDsters to find better and newer things Cheesy

Well something is clear: the PBOC press releases are still causing dips. Who is naive enough to think this was a natural spontaneous correction? Im pretty sure the PBOC statement helped.

These dirty chinks are preparing in beforehand and then they drop the news after they have set their short orders. But like I said before, bitcoin is getting too old for this shit, it is too strong now. $2000 journey continues.

mikenz

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Quote

Chinese exchanges still have the biggest volumes, China is still the biggest BTC market

No they dont.

No its not.

Thats the latest extrapolation after PBoC forced chinese exchanges to drop their pants down.

BitcoinHodler

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HODLing is an art, not just a word...

nothing can stop the uptrend of bitcoin price!
they can slow it down and make it reverse for a short time with a dip but in the end things always come back to normal and price continues rising because there is always a very strong demand for bitcoin.

and also many try so hard to show China bigger than they really are. yes they are big but not even half as big as they are shown to be.

zby

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Quote from: BTCLovingDude on February 08, 2017, 07:44:12 AM

China is old news now. nobody cares about them anymore.
there was a time when people still thought the billion dollar daily volume they reported were real, but now we know how fake it was.
there was a time when people still thought all the mining power came from China, but we have been seeing more and more hashrate from other places.

and with all these changes, i don't think there is anybody naive enough to believe FUD like that and make the price go down. it is time for the FUDsters to find better and newer things Cheesy

Chinese exchanges still have the biggest volumes, China is still the biggest BTC market and whatever happens there will have impact on the price. And if the Chinese authorities really ban bitcoin - then the price there will plummet. So far it does not seem like they want to do that - what they did so far is only making the Chinese market a bit more civilized curbing the fake manipulative data, and enforcing other laws. This still have impact on the price, because now there will be less demand for BTC used for illegal activities.

Personally I bet on quick recovery from this - but I would not say people who think otherwise are naive or weak hands - all this derogatory talk is unnecessary and frankly pretty silly.

shapeshiftscam

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Quote from: cellard on February 08, 2017, 07:31:15 AM

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-08/china-central-bank-said-to-call-bitcoin-exchanges-for-more-talks

China is back with their controlled demolition of the price to short it, but it keeps getting buyed back up fast. Last time we crashed down to $775, now only down to $1009. We still didn't go below $1000, good news. We are back to $1038.

Those damn chinese have found a new way to make free money by trigger panic sells and stealing cheap BTC from dumb panic sellers. Hopefully the PBOC bullshit is weaker everytime.

Chinese miners and traders are so weak, I can't understand what they think, China bans bitcoin so many times, but weak hands are still afraid the bad news. I think most of Chinese miners and traders are only SPECULATORS, they do not TRUST bitcoin and blockchain technology, they hunt for quick money, they don't deserve the future huge gain(5000 usd, 10000 usd), ignore those nervous sheep miners.

BTCLovingDude

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BTC to the moon is inevitable...

China is old news now. nobody cares about them anymore.
there was a time when people still thought the billion dollar daily volume they reported were real, but now we know how fake it was.
there was a time when people still thought all the mining power came from China, but we have been seeing more and more hashrate from other places.

and with all these changes, i don't think there is anybody naive enough to believe FUD like that and make the price go down. it is time for the FUDsters to find better and newer things Cheesy

cellard

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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-08/china-central-bank-said-to-call-bitcoin-exchanges-for-more-talks

China is back with their controlled demolition of the price to short it, but it keeps getting buyed back up fast. Last time we crashed down to $775, now only down to $1009. We still didn't go below $1000, good news. We are back to $1038.

Those damn chinese have found a new way to make free money by trigger panic sells and stealing cheap BTC from dumb panic sellers. Hopefully the PBOC bullshit is weaker everytime.

Topic: After the usual PBOC bullshit routine. Uptrend continues. (Read 2287 times)