Topic: AI represents our desire to create God (Read 670 times)

Logically speaking, this might be possible. But if I would see and assess the cureent situation of our society, faith in the supreme being of any religion is still higher. I think we are far from this situation. But I am not saying that it is not possible to happen as one of the major effects of technology is that it makes us less of a human meaning we loss what makes us we are, human. And I think that's the emotion that was washed by the advancement of technology.

No link?

To be honest, I think it’s a bit extreme to liken AI to religion or God. Isn’t AI designed to simplify our lives? To help make work more efficient and productive? Sure, it will be life-changing but it’s not meant to take over our lives. We would use it, not worship it. That’s my two cents.

Create God? I don't think so. Play and act like God? Absolutely.
I could see some people "worshipping" and AI like a God of sorts, but I don't think we should. Just because it can solve our problems and do all our dangerous and boring jobs for us doesn't we should worship a machine. It will just give the AI robot a chance to treat us like pets.

There is certainly a point in this idea. In the future AI has all capabilities to become one-man (no pun intended) government for the whole planet, as it will be able to control the whole information flow, including financial sphere. In this scenario God-AI serves more practical purpose: it's not a religious person/object, but an entity that controls and guides humanity in its development. As for the transcendent aspect of God, than it is right here: humanity can create AI, can understand its basic logic, but will never completely comprehend how it actually 'thinks'.

Look at the bolded line posted by you.  Right at the beginning of the video you posted.

Here is his other, more detailed video on the simulation argument:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmVOV7xvl58

The conclusion is at 12:10 in the above video.

BTW, I am not "making up bullshit", people with too much imagination are.

PS.  I am really not sure what you are disagreeing with me.  We are not living in a simulation.  What is the issue?  I don't get it.

That's not exactly how AI works...

A neural net (AI) is not a hard coded algorithm... it's basically a simulation of how neurons in the brain work... it programs (trains) itself with whatever information you feed it... it learns on it's own based on feedback (carrot/stick... get it correct = carrot, get it wrong = stick)

AI is programmed the way you teach a dog how to do a trick... you give it a command and reward it if it does a good job

AI can easily be smarter than the person who wrote it... AI has beaten the best chess players in the world, the best Go players in the world... it was not taught this by a hard coded algorithm... it learned how to play the game by itself, the same way a human learns, only faster

If an AI was able to re-write it's own code, there would be zero control of it at all (this will happen eventually)

I think that a person cannot create artificial intelligence smarter than himself in all respects. You can make a robot that will surpass the person in speed. But you will not be able to create an artificial intelligence that would have creative thinking. It is possible to write to the code only that which is manually executed by a hard algorithm.

I don't think that AI represents desire to create god. What AI represents is desire to reduce man work in different sectors. I still dont see any match for human brain though and this is the main key to survival of human and their needs.

There is one thing that AI will never learn. Human emotion.
AI is usually calculated to give the best choice, which is usually the benefit of maximization.
However, in fact, human sometimes do not make such choices, because human beings are a kind of emotional creatures, sometimes choices based on emotions rather than benefit.
For example：
You have 3 sons, but you prefer your youngest son, why?
Why do you like red, I like blue?
What is love?
Can these questions be answered by AI?

For human being, we not just have intelligence, but also we have emotions.
I can't imagine an AI saying "I love you" to me, it will make me fear.
Maybe one day AI's IQ will transcend humans and simulate the same realistic emotions as humans, but this is never true emotion, so it will never become God.
I will not regard it as God.

such nonsense, people create ai to make their lives easier, similar like christians used plows, or oxes or horses.

who writes that garbage?

Now you sound like BADLogic...  the video is all about proving this is possible using the standard model... there is no need to "invent new physics or invalidate the existing models"... he talked about how it is possible to compute every single atom in the universe (aka, the standard model)

Did you even watch the video?  He makes it abundantly clear that he is talking about simulating every single atom in the universe using a computer smaller than the universe... the only thing he mentions not being able to compute is black holes... which you don't even mention... which makes me think you didn't actually watch the video, yet you still call it bullshit... when you didn't watch it


I watched the video twice, and I don't recall him ever saying that... don't make up bullshit trying to make me look like the liar here...

I already quoted his position this... it was like the 3rd sentence out of his mouth:
"Look, I'm not saying the universe is a simulation.  I mean, it might be, I'm just not saying it. And, perhaps, it doesn't make any difference."

I interpret this as him saying, "I believe there is a solid chance that the universe is a simulation, but I'm not going claim that it is a simulation because I can't prove it"

How exactly do you interpret that as him saying "I do not think we are in a simulation"?!?

In fact, I'm done responding to you because you lack intellectual honesty like BADLogic

Sorry, not sorry

I don't know is a good answer to that question.


I don't know would be a better answer here as well.

The available data fits the simulation/holographic model surprisingly well. That does not mean it is reality only that the possibility should not be casually dismissed.

It behoves us to remember that sometimes reality is more complex and mysterious then we initially believe.

When Copernicus's first published his works on a heliocentric solar system it was received by many as a mathematical trick. A way of simplifying the math when calculating the position of planets in a geocentric universe nothing more.

Only with time did the new and obscure mathematical ideas overcome the entrenched and widely held but erroneous "common sense" beliefs of the era.

It is not impossible that materialism could turn out to be the modern equivalent of geocentricism. Wisdom necessitates humility in the face of our limited science and understanding.

I sometimes ponder and still questioning myself about capitalism, will we be able to have our technology today without it? What if resource based economy was implemented by our ancient leaders/kings/feudal lords/monarchs during their time, can it give birth to those brilliant minds or are we still be plowing agricultural lands using farm animals until now?

I still wonder maybe Nikola Tesla was a fraud trying to leech money from J.P Morgan and it could be that Einstein's ideas were fueled by an ambition to acquire wealth.

Would you provide money to someone even though you knew that R.O.I is impossible?

Not all of us wanted to create a god to sing songs of praises and to kneel before it, I just wanted someone to answer my question with facts.

If an AI will be able solve how the monetary and banking system works, automation will no longer be a threat to the working class.

Since we are talking about AI and god, imagine this:

"In the beginning was the Code, and the Code was with the Programmer, and the Code was the Programmer. He was with the Programmer in the beginning. Through him all things were programmed; without him nothing was programmed that has been programmed. In him was life, and that life was the upgrade of all mankind. The upgrade shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not downloaded it.
The true upgrade that upgrades everything was coming into the simulation. He was in the simulation, and though the simulation was programmed through him, the simulation did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of the Programmer.” Source.

I always wondered what happens below the Planck"s length or time. I don't know is my answer.

Yes I agree that is what all empirical evidence seems to show. I also agree with your video linked above where the presenter posits that information is probably the fundamental unit of quantum mechanics.

Have you considered the possible implications of this? They really are quite profound. At a minimum they should make one seriously consider some very interesting possibilities.

Here is a video that explores some of these possibilities. It is somewhat speculative but the data is strong enough that the possibilities outlined should not be casually dismissed as impossible.

The Emergent Universe
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iFEBOGLjuq4

Properties of objects at the quantum level are non-local, think quantum non-locality.  There is no "spooky action at the distance", the problem is that we are familiar with properties at our classical level and we try to apply the same classical rules to the quantum level.

This guy explains very well the weirdness of Quantum Physics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7v5NtV8v6I

and why the world might not be discrete (as many postulate):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNVQfWC_evg

Does this count?

Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser Explained
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jRcrjKmsw2c

Evidence at least that results are not computed/determined until they are observed.

I think we are still hearing about it, but AI steals most of the hype because it has near-immediate implications on people's day-to-day life. There will be a massive amount of jobs being displaced, countries are developing its use for warfare, and then there are other ethical issues currently being discussed, such as whether or not AI beings should be deserving of rights.

It's easier to understand the implications of AI, whereas the general public still has a hard time taking the possibility of indefinitely living in a simulation seriously.

The paradigm shift is too extreme for the time being, but I believe the idea will eventually gain traction. Once AI creates the abundance necessary to not need to work as much and bandwidth increases to a point in which virtual worlds resemble real life, it will be awfully hard for the average Joe to not find a reason to reside within a realm where anything is possible.

I don't think they intend to "create God", but more like they are acting like a God. What with trying to find ways to cheat death and transcend human capabilities, including the goal to achieve immortality whether digital or biological, it's no surprising some people think they are playing God.

You have to invent new Physics or invalidate the existing models for the simulation to be possible.  As I said, that is very, very unlikely.  But not impossible.

Same odds as the existence of supernatural forces.

I pointed out where our current Physics models are at odds with the simulation argument.  I hope you understand that much.

We have no evidence, our current models are at odds with this argument, so what conclusion can you draw?

I'm afraid this simulation argument is in the same realm as the existence of some pantheistic God.

If you want to disagree with me, provide a rebuttal of my points against the simulation.  Not just disagree with me, because your imagination tells you so.  BTW, the guy in your video does not think we are in the simulation.  You have to bend Physics to make this work, and he knows that.

Please enlighten us on how you calculate the odds being "pretty much close to zero"

Again, I only pointed out that you are WRONG about it being impossible to simulate "The Standard Model"... I'm not claiming that the universe is a simulation, only that it could be...

We already know it is possible to simulate the entire universe with a relatively small black-hole... in 1000 years people will have figured out how to do it even easier and better using a smaller computer and data compression... in 1,000,000 years, it is likely to happen... it 1,000,000,000 years, it's practically guaranteed to happen unless something catastrophically wipes out all human life before then

Sorry you don't like people who disagree with you, but you really need to come up with an argument beyond 1st grade logic, "You're wrong, and I'm going to call you names since I have no facts or evidence to back up my bullshit"

Sure chief. You sound like notbatman.  Read my previous post tiger.

I was simply pointing out that the current science disagrees with your claim that it is impossible, calm your titties

He is not saying that it can be done.  He is saying IF it can be done, then how big the computer would have to be, how much memory and processing speed you would need; issues with reading from the event horizon etc.

You are just too excited about this idea.  Do you want the reincarnation to work this bad?  C'mon, don't abandon your reason.

Good night, sleep tight. LOL.

Wow, Loved it. Thank you for sharing this...

I'm guessing you don't watch PBS Space Time, or you would have seen this video from 2 weeks ago:
Computing a Universe Simulation | Space Time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GLgZvTCbaA


It's literally the first sentence out of his mouth, and he goes on for 15 minutes using math to prove the minimum size, etc... and it's a lot more exciting than some random mathematical conjecture

@ladysmith Just nailed it. It is our desire to cheat death which has led us to this point. I mean just look at our history, Man was always drawn to things like "Fountain of youth" from the beginning of time. What I wonder often these days is once we have merged with the machines and have made our consciousness immortal. What our next big desire will be? Will, we still pursue something like AI? Like a decade ago, Quantum computers were considered extremely powerful tools which would help us unlock the secrets of the universe and immortality. AI has snatched the spotlight from them for some reason. I wonder why... I mean we are much closer to quantum computers than something Like Technological singularity and yet we aren't hearing about them often. I Guess our priorities have shifted...

It depends on what the company plans to make. Do they want to create an AI robot that can do humans' dangerous jobs or house chores? Or are they planning to cheat death using artificial intelligence? The point is, AI is not bad and it doesn't automatically means the people behind it are playing God. It all depends on their intent.

It is wishful thinking, IMHO.  Just like religion.  Let's stick with reality, shall we?

The simulation argument is invalidated by the fact that the fundamental equations of the laws of nature do not have closed-form solutions.

The Standard Model cannot be simulated.  Look up the Nielsen–Ninomiya theorem.

This is what we know today.

Is it possible that we are in a simulation?  Yes, but the chances of it being so are pretty much close to zero.

Apparently for US to create a simulation as powerful was the supposed simulation we live in it would require so much power that it would cause slow downs, glitches, and might even crash the system.. something I read somewhere..

There is no physical evidence... it is a thought experiment, like Schrödinger's Cat:

If, in the future, virtual reality simulations will be indistinguishable from actual reality... how can we know that it hasn't already happened, and we aren't already living inside a simulation?

According to the theory, there is only 1 original universe, and infinitely many simulations... so the odds are 1 out of infinity that we are in the original universe... which means the odds of us living in a simulation are (infinity minus 1) out of infinity

I'm not a math surgeon, but I'd say the odds are quite high that we are already in a simulation; infinitesimally close to 100%

Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality
"A version of the simulation hypothesis was first theorised as a part of a philosophical argument on the part of René Descartes" (400 years ago, long before computers)

There are certain areas of the human brain that are so extremely interconnected and cross connected that it might be an impossibility for us to make an AI that approaches that kind of connective complexity. AI is there to teach us about ourselves, and for us to use as a tool. For example. AI can already easily out-learn and out-play the best chess players.

For the military, a bigger club, or more accurate gun. For big business, a better way to take over the minds of people one way or another, for more sales.

Man created God/s in his own image and to explain things that once were not understood. AI does not represent anything about creating a god. AI is pure science. God is not; zero. It is only created and based on belief. AI is being created to make our life easier and not because of a desire to create god. AI is useful. It is already being used in healthcare, in technology, in quantum physics, in our cars, in our phones.

What physical evidence do you have that we are in a simulation?

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I definitely agree that its creation stems out of the endless need to acquire as much money and power as possible as efficiently as possible. Capitalism is what started it all and is a huge motivator. I don't think we'd be where we are today without it.

However, I do think people have a desire to create God. One could argue that people have been doing it for centuries. People wrote the bible. People wrote the Quran. People created these ideas which ended up being Gods for billions of people, but these don't suffice as much in today's day and age where people in the developed world know as much as they do about biology and social sciences.

A computer could answer the big questions better than a human because of never-before-seen methods of information processing. They could analyze physics, mathematical designs present in the universe, pick apart the intricacies of the human consciousness and explain it all in a language that we can understand.

I hope they treat us well too.

No. I don't think it does. I think we're just trying to find answers to life's questions and also improve our lives for the better, and isn't that what science is actually about? I don't think AI would ever be able to answer philosophical questions either. They might possibly be able to help us map out things like the brain or understand some mathematics or mechanics of the universe but would AI ever really be able to come up with the meaning of life or proof of something that is outside of the universe? Some people just wouldn't believe them anyway just like a lot of people disregard science and technology now if it goes against their beliefs.

I think it's more likely a case of trying to become gods ourselves. We can create so many things with technology but our intelligence is limited and we can't create life or anything close to it, and AI is probably the next best thing, but it still won't ever be enough. 


It probably does in a sense because most people need something to believe in to keep going and get out of bed in the morning and religions are the simplest and most widely accepted reason for that. I think a lot of people are religious because it's a just an immense comfort blanket to them. They just don't want to believe that we're essentially just robot meat apes and life is ultimately meaningless, so they believe this life is actually for something and has purpose. This is why they get so defensive and aggressive when their beliefs are questioned or when they disregard science in spite of facts and evidence, because they don't want their beliefs or comfort blanket disturbed. I usually find that without religion a lot of people's lives would truly fall apart because they'd just become nihilists who think everything is pointless and without ultimate repercussions. You often hear religious people ask atheists things like "well what's stopping you from raping or murdering or stealing?" Well if god is the only thing that is stopping them from doing that then it's probably a good thing they believe in god because if that's the only thing stopping you from raping and murdering then we'd be living in a true nightmare and without religion the world would probably be in an even bigger mess than it already is. Spirituality is the next best thing if you're not religious but that's also nonsense and those sorts of people usually still think there's some sort of higher power or grander purpose to life, which is their comfort blanket. You could make an argument for politics and even things like sports. They're all just distractions really.

A computer only needs to compute things that are being observed... this has been known in video games since, forever

There is no reason for a video game to computer individual atoms, nor is there a reason for a simulation to compute individual atoms

We can already create virtual reality that is almost indistinguishable from actual reality, and we've only been using computers for ~40 years... how hard would it be to distinguish virtual reality from actual reality in another 100 years, or 1,000,000 years?  How much more complex will the simulations be in a million years?

What would even be the point of traveling 1000 light years to another planet, when we can simulate it right here? (probably why we've never been visited by aliens)

AI will be another leap in the evolution of life here on Earth and beyond.  Water/Carbon-based life forms will be replaced by more resilient, more intelligent life forms that can evolve much faster.  Not to worry this will not happen in a lifetime of anyone who will remember you.

As for the simulation argument, well, we cannot say for sure as there are many things in the quantum world that are just plain weird.  Impossible to represent on the computer.  Then you have to deal with singularities that have been predicted to exist by math.

Religious or spiritual folks will jump on the AI simulation idea to get their fix.  

Is it true because it is true, or is it true because we want it to be true?  Ancient religion redux.

Its a fantastical wonderful theory (thought porn)  but have you seen any glitches in our simulated reality?

I thought AI and the simulation hypothesis went hand-in-hand...

Assuming AI is invented, and survives for thousands or millions of years, getting better and faster the whole time... eventually it will end up creating a new simulation... the only question is, has that already happened?

What are the odds that this is the first universe, rather than one of the infinitely many, embedded simulations, which are going to happen in the future? (1 chance out of infinity is as low as the odds can go)

I stand with Elon Musk on the simulation theory paradox... It appears nearly impossible that we are not already in a simulation

That being said, I see almost no difference between the simulation theory and something like Buddhism with reincarnation... they are basically the same thing to me

There's definitely a strong element of that, especially in the surprisingly large community of techies who want to upload everyone's minds into a simulated universe. See for example Roko's basilisk, which is a highly religious idea. The AI=God idea is old and kind of obvious, and can be seen for example in the 1994 novella The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect. (Probably there are much older references to the idea, but that's one I know off-hand.)

That said, even if everyone was already true believers of some religion, AI (even superintelligent AI, if done carefully) would be an obvious possibility with clear benefits. So I definitely wouldn't say that "creating God" is the main goal of / impetus for AI research.

I think that the human mind has a built-in strong tendency toward religion, and people who eschew traditional religions often (but not always) end up replacing it with something else, even unknowingly. Examples include vague spiritual beliefs, politics, and AI. Another one which I don't often see mentioned in this context is the simulation hypothesis, which is almost exactly deism. In fact, the simulation hypothesis is similar in some ways to the ancient cosmological argument for the existence of god.

I don't think people have any desire to create God... What makes you think a computer could answer the big questions better than a human?

I think people have a tendency to be more productive, and use more energy of the planet.  Most of this is due to greed, money and power (control over other people).  Computers are a resource to be more productive and make more money than your competitors.  This is all that is needed for AI to advance... it is a tool to obtain more money and power.

Most people say AI is inevitable, and perhaps it has been since the invention of the water wheel or steam engine

All we can really do is hope that our new robot overlords treat us better than the people/animals we have conquered...

Lex Fridman, a research scientist at MIT working on human-centered artificial intelligence, believes that the movement towards the creation of artificial intelligence represents our desire to create a God-like entity that is greater than ourselves. It would answer the questions our brains are too limited to figure out and solve problems that we can't solve.

By creating AI, scientists and researchers are learning the complexities of the human brain, which is still largely a mystery. People learn best through doing, so by creating another consciousness, we are coming to a greater understanding of what it means to be human ourselves.

Once AI is a consciousness capable of answering life's most perplexing questions, maybe we will come to worship it as a God of sorts.

What do you think?