Topic: all finished (Read 5074 times)

Just to throw this out there, the original post on Reddit where I first heard about this opportunity contains the following text about refunds:


At the current exchange rate, Waldo stands to make quite a bit from this failed deal from the KnC refunds. The original text does not specify what amount of our investment we'd get back minus 5%. If I bought two shares, I'd expect to get back two *shares* of the amount refunded from KnC (minus the 5% for Waldo). I'm interested in what's going to happen with all the extra BTC after the USD conversion if we just get our original amount back minus the 5%.

I do appreciate the opportunity to participate in this venture and I thank Waldo for organizing it.

Does anyone have an idea of when KnC was scheduled to send the refunds out? My only hope is that he's waiting to have some solid numbers before getting back to us. 

In https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/all-finished-347907 he clearly stated the terms of the refund:


Waldo, I think you have to honor your words and recalculate the refunds.

If we back out and go the refund route, that means they would have to wire 10K USD into my bank.

Since I would not be sending everyone USD- I would take everyones share (10K - 5% fee / 60 shares) and purchase BTC at the current rate and send it over to each shareholder.

From what I understand waldo hasn't even received any funds from KnCMiner yet, I think he paid from his personal wallet, so whatever the price is now is irrelevant. On top of that I agreed to a refund of my BTC minus his 5% fee. I received 12 shares minus this fee exactly how he stated it in his terms from when I purchased my shares months ago. I don't understand what you're complaining about. If waldo makes more coins later when he buys good for him, he took a chance and gave me my BTC back in full how I expected it. Are you guys mad that you won't get more coins than expected because waldo might make more coins if the timing is right?  

I've got my refund, although I'm a little confused as to the calculation. Bitcoins are now around the $480 mark, so if the refund from KNC is coming back in dollars and being used to purchase bitcoins for the refund shouldn't this be more like:

Neptune 5:
$10000 - 5% management fee = $9500
$9500 / 60 shares = $158 a share
$158 = 0.329 BTC

Based on the previous post, each Neptune 5 share has been refunded as 0.2565 BTC?


I've no issue over the 5% fee as I think this was displayed upfront and is fair, I just would have expected more BTC back as the refund was in $

No problem! Everyone else should see their refunds coming in very soon!

Once I get the guarantee from KnC that they have indeed cancelled/began refund process (awaiting reply for official refund) I may refund everyone out of my own personal cold storage coins at the same time (same day). There's no need to drag out refunds for a month(s) as long as I know KnC is refunding me down the line.. on top of that it gets everyone their coins MUCH sooner.. and maybe gives them some coin to invest into something else with.    

Jupiter 3TH
The window for conversions has now closed we have had over 400 conversions which means we are actively trying to fill all of the orders we have but we will contact customers individually if they are too far back in the queue to be converted. The good news is that the shipment for these orders will begin Tuesday next week after the Easter holidays and we expect it to take only a few days to have all boxes shipped out to customers.
 
Neptune Power Requirements
While we will not release the maximum performance of the Neptune miner we can now release the required power supply to give people time to purchase them. The maximum power draw will be 2100w of power and we recommend this to be either two 1200w power supplies or three 850watt power supplies. This does include a bit of a safety margin on our side and of course underclocking will be possible to reduce the power requirements even more.

Alright guys, looks like we're going to go with Neptune refunds since KnCminer will do a US bank transfer.

Alright guys, looks like we're going to go with Neptune refunds since KnCminer will do a US bank transfer. This will probably take a couple of weeks to get processed  and like I stated before this will be somewhat of a timely process for me to purchase the amount of coins to do refunds. I am considering pulling out cold storage coins to just get your guys your BTC sooner than later (only because KnCMiner has agreed to a refund if requested).. but still debating that. We don't have enough to keep a full miner and the clear decision, vocally, is refunds.

Like stated in my OP, you will receive all your BTC minus 5% fee.

That comes out to:

Neptunes 1-4: ฿0.2375/share

Neptune 5: ฿0.2565/share

Neptune 6: ฿0.3135/share

I honestly feel this is the best move for share holders at this time. Still no chips in hand, power requirements are still MIA and a rising difficulty- I think the refund is going to get you more BTC back in hand in the long run. Even with the most hopeful outcome of us being super early in June, that's still a 10B+ dif , looking at the earnings calculator (which doesn't include electric fees yet for obv reasons) almost proves the refund is the best choice. I'll let this sit for this week while I try to move some coins around and hopefully can start refunding soon (once I confirm again with KnC).

Cheers all.  

Nah, that's moving a step backwards. On top of that that means I have to buy even more PSUs to run all of the extra boards on the controllers.

Either way, we wont be hashing until the last week of Q2 it seems with the most recent news regarding the Neptunes.

Dear all,

In this newsletter we have some updates for you all about our product range. The newsletter will contain the following sections:
 
20nm statement
Neptune progress update
Hash while you wait
Convert your Neptune order
 
20nm statement.

This is an important statement which we would like to make clear. As always there is a lot of information available on the internet and a lot of speculation about the technology we are using some of it true and some of it completely wrong. What we can say is that the technology we have chosen is cutting edge and this means a lot of companies are careful about adopting such technologies.
We at KnCMiner pride ourselves in bringing the latest technologies to our customers. We over engineer our chips and don’t promise anywhere near the actual 100% performance they could possibly achieve. This enables us to use the latest and greatest chips safely. So when you read about much longer timelines for this technology it’s important to note they are not our timelines. We have a very different approach. We over engineer our chips and only use world class partners in our chip designs. These important factors allow us to have the technology in our customer’s hands faster than other companies.
 
Neptune progress update.

Our Neptune product is currently in fabrication stage at the TSMC Foundry in Asia. We are actively pushing to get the chips as fast as possible to our assembly factories in Sweden. We have of course taken all steps to make sure that the process is done as fast as possible. We know as well as everyone in this business that time is a critical part of the process.  Which we think is why we have come up with a few alternatives to anyone who doesn't want to wait for their product.
 
Hash while you wait.

First it’s important to note that we don’t expect to be late at all everything is on track. It’s just always good to have a backup plan. Second our mega-data center in the north of Sweden is nearing completion so we can give out some more details. All customers of Neptune’s will be able to use completely free of charge our data center to hash for them at 3TH either on our pool or a pool of their choice while they wait for their product to be shipped. The first customers (batch 1) are expected to be hashing in our data center in early June and the last customer will hash in our data center around the last week of June. All the customers will be able to hash in that data center for as long as we are late in shipping your Neptune product, this service will be provided on a best effort basis. We have a 24/7 operations teams in place with multiple redundant internet and power connections and we will aim to have as close to 0 down time as possible.
 
Convert your Neptune order to a 3TH Jupiter.
 
For those customers who no longer want to wait for their Neptune we have another new option for you. We are releasing for shipment a new 3TH product. We have a total of 400 of these setups available which are based on our existing and proven 28nm chips. Each setup contains
18 of our own 28nm 8 DC/DC module ASIC boards with coolers,
3 controller cards,
all cables needed,
Power supplies not included.
The boards are in aluminum boxes, each box contains 3 chips side by side with front and rear cooling vents. Each controller card runs two boxes. This option will be offered free of charge for anyone wanting to convert their Neptune to a 3TH Jupiter. If more than 400 people want to have the conversion we will ship in order of payment for the original Neptune order. This offer will be open for 7 days for people to contact us. After 7 days from today the exchange will be frozen and people will be contacted who made it onto the queue. The products will then be shipped from stock as soon as possible. This will be offered at no cost to the customers wanting to take 3TH of Jupiter’s instead of waiting for their Neptune’s. There is a 90 day warranty on this product. Anyone wanting to take this option should contact customer service via email with their order number who will then take care of the conversion.
 

I vote to stay the course.

I have a single share.

It's nearly April 1st. I think it is time to request a refund. I have four shares.

This could be an option, unfortunately a good chunk of the people who invest never seem to follow any of the news/announcements I make.

Some just send me their investment- log off forums/emails etc for months and then ask me later "so whats the word?" - which makes it difficult to make decisions for them.

Isn't it possible to refund some miners and keep some?

It doesn't matter if mining is a speculative endeavor for you, not based on todays Bitcoin price but on the future price. The speculation would be more profitable if you got your original funding back in Bitcoin, or as close as possible to it.

Undef, Waldo is right. There is absolutely no chance of ROI on the Neptunes now, even if they arrived a month from today, and they won't. I'm really surprised at the amount of shareholders who still prefer to wait it out. If you take the time to assess the rate of increase of difficulty and the price of Bitcoin over the past 6 months, you will not be able to forecast exactly what the ROI will be but you can reasonable assume that the Neptunes will be unprofitable somewhere between 2 weeks to 2 months from the start of mining.

It doesn't matter how many shares you have, you will not mine the same amount of Bitcoin that you originally paid for your shares within that window of profitability.

It doesn't matter if mining is a speculative endeavor for you, not based on todays Bitcoin price but on the future price. The speculation would be more profitable if you got your original funding back in Bitcoin, or as close as possible to it.

I can't see what the motivation is to stay the course. I would love for this to be a profitable venture but as I stated around a month ago on this thread, that ship sailed long ago unfortunately.

Murt9000

I don't believe we can come close to getting ROI now that the units are so late. March was supposed to be the latest we get these, now we are thinking May...

Well, now the polls are showing a 50/50 (instead of 70% stay, 30% refund).

Emails and PMs on other communications are about 60% refund, 40% stay..

Thanks for everyones input again.

Well, now the polls are showing a 50/50 (instead of 70% stay, 30% refund).

Emails and PMs on other communications are about 60% refund, 40% stay..

Still very close.

I will run another (and most likely last) poll on April 1st (First day of Q2) and revisit both options again. If refund option passes the ~75% majority mark, I will most likely consider that option in the future.

Thanks everyone!

Anybody catch the latest here? I think this is for the Neptunes tho I could be wrong. https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-78

KnC Announce ‘Tape out’ of the World’s first 20nm ASIC for Bitcoin Mining
 
STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN — March 5, 2014 –– KnC, the most trusted brand in Bitcoin Mining is announcing they
have completed ‘tape out’ of their new ASIC. This is the world’s first Bitcoin Mining Application Specific
Integrated Circuit (ASIC) designed using ground breaking 20 nanometer engineering. This important
milestone was achieved only 3 months after starting the project, during February 2014.
 
KnC partnered with Alchip and its representative, Advanced Semiconductors Technology (AST), to deliver
this advanced 20nm technology ASIC. This tapeout is the 2nd generation of the bitcoin mining ASIC following
the success of the 1st, which was delivered in a record time of 3.5 months.
 
This new KnC20nm chip will reduce power consumption of Bitcoin Mining by 43% when compared with the
previous generation. In addition, innovations in the design of the communications circuitry allow for 1440
cores, in a 55x55mm package.
 
Marcus Erlandson, KnC CTO, is immensely proud of the teams performance, “The combined efforts of KnC
and our partners Alchip means that once again we are bringing to market a world first silicon design and in
record time.”
 
Johnny Shen, President of Alchip. “KnC and Alchip have been working together on Bitcoin ASIC design for
less than 12 months and in that time we’ve already delivered 2 world-first projects. Collaboration is the key
here and the close working relationship between our teams is the secret to our success”

Sorry, what's a PETA? (Serious question, not being snarky - I've been looking around for new mining hardware, and nothing seems to be in stock or available in the near future, other than Antminers and Gridseed/DualMiner variants.)

PETA right now is going for 1/3 or more of what it is worth IMHO. It should be round .25 -.3 and you can pick up for less then .1.

Really? Because I've been looking around for something new, and all I see are Antminers and Gridseeds.

Really? Because I've been looking around for something new, and all I see are Antminers and Gridseeds.

I say refund, there are other things better to invest in now.

6 shares: Stay the course (for now).

KNC has proven themselves reliable in the past.  They've increased the hashing power of units without charging extra, they've delivered when they said they would, and they've generally been an upstanding player.  Even with the pessimistic growth rate of the calculator at mining.thegenesisblock.com, I think we could still make a profit if we take delivery as late as end of March.  Adjusting the growth rate on the calculator to something a little more sane, we could easily profit with delivery as late as end of April, and with luck as late as May. It won't be an instant profit, sure, but we knew that going in. I'm in this for the long haul, not the quick profit.

That said, I'm also a realist.    My suggestion is that we hold for now, and reevaluate the hold/sell decision in a month's time, around end of March or early April.

Alrighty guys, I said I would revisit this option come March 1st so let's see where we all stand.

We're 2/3 of the way through Q1, meaning KnCMiner still has 4 months, technically, to ship a Neptune until they are considered late.

With BTC/USD rates this low.. and if they stay around this price you guys should recover about ~90/95% of your initial BTC.

Now, I'm good with either way, you guys are the share holders. You want to go the refund round, I will inquire with KnCMiner. You guys want to wait it out, let's do it.

Vote above!  

* Estimated Earnings Calculator

* Please only vote if you own shares , thanks!

WH